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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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BungieONI said:
Even if its just compensation, that's still going to color public dwarf perception of Mathilde, Anton and Wilhelmina negatively. And they don't really have any Dwarf favor to soak it with.
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Remember, it's also in the interest of the Empire in the long run, for the EIC to institute a very firm policy of never lying to a Dwarf. I'd say that implementing the Never Lie to the Dwarf policy is an excellent prelude to the larger-scale policy of running the EIC for the long term financial interest of the Empire. Strong relations with the Dawi is in the long term financial and security interest of the Empire, and a very concrete example that we can build a long-term good of the Empire Policy for the EIC out of that the personel of the EIC can very easily grasp.
 
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[X] Plan Citadel Focus


Well, that's four hours. I switched to the Tower vote, because getting an excellent laboratory should probably be the highest priority thing for our living space.

[X] Turn 20 Down with Clan Mors
-[X] [Max] Current Task: Have Maximillian teach the We written Reikspiel.
-[X] [Johann] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
-[X] [EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[X] Ranald's Coin - The Gambler on this one.
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Go down there and see what you can acquire.
-[X] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[X] [PENT] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] [SOC] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Help Gunnar with Tomb Construction
-[X] [COIN] The Gambler: Help the We establish new nest below the Citadel.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
What about the concern of them betraying us as a result of learning to communicate with other races, like greenskins for example?
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Well, aside from already listed points, goblins have managed to work with spiders without ever having communicated.

I think its like allying with a Logicbeast AI: be objectively the best long term ally and they will stick with you as long as that remains true.
ChronOblivion said:
Would Johann be producing useful work for the dwarves like this? I sympathize with the concern that we're a little too concerned with appeasing our employee. Don't love that we hired him, honestly.
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Eh, Johann was always going to be difficult to wrangle as he's our peer in rank and probably beats us on seniority.

We can use him better now, in that I reckon if he wanted to do Skaven research AND concealed his rank I'm practically certain he has stealth skills suitable for obtaining Skaven wargear.

I.e. we aren't just appeasing him, we're using him by having him engage in Path Of Doing What We Wanted Anyway appeasement.
Two Magisters can fuck up a lot of shit, and cause a lot of havoc even if its not their mission goal.

A significant factor in my choice:
-The Gold Wizards are often redundantly applied to a task, and best used for exploratory research rather than Investigative/Problem Solving research.
--This turn, Johann and Max are redundant, they can do long term investigations on the spider stuff, immediate tasks of teaching spiders how to write(I partly want Max to teach writing because Max has good writing!), and for Johann he can apply full Magister skills on Skavenfucking.
---Worse, they don't play nice with each other so assigning them both to the same task is likely to get less done rather than more.

We'd really have had better options if we hired the Ambers on, but done is done.
 
All right, here's my final draft for the opening of the vote:

[X] Plan Like A Good Neighbour
-[X][MAX] Current Task: Have Maximilian investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[X][JOHANN] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
-[X][EIC] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[X][PENTHOUSE] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X][SOCIAL] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[X] Gambler
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task
--[X] Assist Gunnar with burial rites

Changes from before: we're not teaching Reikspiel and we're now setting up the shrine to Ranald. My reasoning for these changes are very similar: redundancy. When we were on war footing, it was really important to have redundancy built in to all our actions, because success compounded on itself in accomplishing military victory. This is no longer the case; we want to be efficient with our action expenditure, because we benefit from keeping a lot of balls in the air.
  • Why no Reikspiel from Max? Because semaphore is more useful for the people they're actually going to encounter more often, and if we fail at teaching semaphore, we have the translation item and can try again. It is not time-critical that the entire We be able to communicate with us; the time-critical part (keeping a line of communication open if teaching fails) is handled by the item and the Ambers.
  • Why no more stealing from Mors? Well, we're an adviser now, and not the spymaster. In general, we should have a bias towards actions that only we can do. Johann can screw with the Skaven just fine this turn and maybe dig up something useful, we don't need to play nursemaid. Instead, we should start legitimizing our religion: an institutional action unique to us. I love the synergy of the Citadel actions, but I think that the We + Johann is enough and we will get more marginal gain elsewhere.
  • Why this corporate policy? I've argued about it a bunch here, here, and here.
  • Why no snek juice? Next turn, after we have a proper lab set up with bonuses and stuff.
  • Why are we spending two social actions? Because we want to be friends with Gunnar, we want to establish our bona fides as someone who knows death stuff so later knowledge we gain from the LM isn't as suspicious, and because it is vitally important that we spend time with the Goodest Boy.
Tagging @GreenTamm per request.

EDIT: Approval voting:
[X] Plan Mors, Gunnars and Ranald
[X] Plan Talk to me Baby (Spider)
[X] Plan Improvement, Improvement Everywhere
And, reluctantly
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
which has the wrong EIC action but which I prefer over the other frontrunner.
 
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veekie said:
Eh, Johann was always going to be difficult to wrangle as he's our peer in rank and probably beats us on seniority.

We can use him better now, in that I reckon if he wanted to do Skaven research AND concealed his rank I'm practically certain he has stealth skills suitable for obtaining Skaven wargear.

I.e. we aren't just appeasing him, we're using him by having him engage in Path Of Doing What We Wanted Anyway appeasement.
Two Magisters can fuck up a lot of shit, and cause a lot of havoc even if its not their mission goal.

A significant factor in my choice:
-The Gold Wizards are often redundantly applied to a task, and best used for exploratory research rather than Investigative/Problem Solving research.
--This turn, Johann and Max are redundant, they can do long term investigations on the spider stuff, immediate tasks of teaching spiders how to write(I partly want Max to teach writing because Max has good writing!), and for Johann he can apply full Magister skills on Skavenfucking.
---Worse, they don't play nice with each other so assigning them both to the same task is likely to get less done rather than more.

We'd really have had better options if we hired the Ambers on, but done is done.
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The only way we can do that efficiently is by basically "assisting Johann", not "let him do what he wants", otherwise we risk either lost action points or having to boot him.
 
BoneyM said:
He steeled himself. The partnership between Dawi and Umgi predated even him, and he was forced to admit that it wasn't entirely a bad decision. And to be a Dwarf meant repaying what is owed. Grudges, of course, were repaid in blood and death, but the other side was that those that helped the Karaz Ankor were repaid in ways commensurate with their act. When Sigmar had saved the High King, he had not only been gifted the ancient treasure Ghal-Maraz, but on top of that the best Runesmith of the age was commissioned to create something entirely new to settle the debt. Similarly, when manlings aided the greatest reconquest in millennia, the burden was on him to repay it. And they did so with swords, so swords it had to be. And being cursed with the ridiculously brief lifetimes, decades could not be spared to properly form it. Even years would be too long.
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So this has me really curious about Kragg's work because since he is comparing it to Ghal-Maraz It makes me think that he wants to atleast equal the work of Ghal-Maraz in a faction of the time.
 
[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
-[X] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[X] Collate the information that the Army of Stirland collected during the Purge.
-[X] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: specify who and how.
--[X] Assist Gunnar with burial rites for Humans
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[X] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.
--[X] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[X] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.

[X] Plan TNE v3
[X] Plan TNE v4
[X] Not Plan TNE
[X] Plan Magical Mathilde
[X] Plan Publishing Power Juice
 
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Nix's Warden said:
Meanwhile Matilda just smiles at them, sweet as poison, and answers the unspoken question that the Dwarves will always repay a debt owed to a friend....just as they will always repay a debt to a foe, in the most fitting and indefatigable manner possible. And every other human in that meeting, remembering how they just ignored Belegar before, starting to wondering just how close they are to being thought of as the latter rather then the former?
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Mathilde doesn't actually hate the Empire, remember?
 
Neptune said:
As another said, I don't really feel it's necessary. We have the action teaching semaphore signs which seem like it'd be easier for the spiders to understand than a written language, a free action getting a translation item, and even then we still have the Amber wizards around and I imagine given their primary focus for staying here was the We they'd be pretty close by to help.

Max working on the silk as mentioned has both military benefits, but also financial; which helps long term as it ingrains both the defensive benefit the Karak receives from the spiders continuing to live close by as well as economical by providing a unique good. He's also a Gold wizard, and should receive higher bonuses towards this action than teaching Reikspeil.
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Solid points and I incorporated them into the final draft of my own plan.

Your plan is missing Ranald's Coin, by the way.
 
[X] Turn 20 Down with Clan Mors
[X] Plan Citadel Focus
[X] Plan Citadel Focus Semaphore version
[X] Plan Mors, Gunnars and Ranald

Approval voting any plan with the following:


-[ ] [Max] Current Task: Have Maximillian teach the We written Reikspiel
-[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[ ] You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Go down there and see what you can acquire.


-[ ] [EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[ ] [PENT] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[ ] [SOC] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Help Gunnar with Tomb Construction

The big one of this plan is the Citadel Synergies proposed by Veekie here. We should be co-ordinating our relocation of the We, with pointing Johann at the Skaven underneath the relocation, and we ourselves following up on our previous expedition of the under Citadel and staging more heists of skaven war material such as irreplaceable Gromil equipment.

We are in a position to influence the part of the EIC that interacts with the Dwarves most frequently: namely the EIC Eight Peaks branch, as well as the Nitrate traders in our company. Let's learn to walk before running with something as grand as the long-term financial good of the Empire, something I suspect would need a higher roll to succeed.

The Tower atop Karag Nar is a no brainer if we want to research the Asp Juice - infact, that we are building that tower now is a sign of our commitment to research the Asp Juice with a good set of bonuses in place.

Gunnar opens the door for us to get our Greatsword training up further, plus this opportunity is time-limited and I do think Mathilde ought to spend some time with Gunnar after he came through for us on the issue of the Mork Possession.

The Shrine to Ranald is also fairly urgent, since it's the early days of the Undumgi, and we eventually do need to get the shrine to Ranald up. Let's do it now, and clear away AP for future actions such as the Snake Juice.
 
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Andmeuths said:
Remember, it's also in the interest of the Empire in the long run, for the EIC to institute a very firm policy of never lying to a Dwarf. I'd say that implementing the Never Lie to the Dwarf policy is an excellent prelude to the larger-scale policy of running the EIC for the long term financial interest of the Empire.
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Exactly. The Dwarves are the major ally of the Empire, and they are heavily intertwined with its culture and business. Look at the similarities between Reikspiel and Khazalid for example with all the loan words from the later in the former. Dwarves have stable populations in portions of Stirland so its relevant even there.


[X] Turn 20 Down with Clan Mors
-[X] [Max] Current Task: Have Maximillian teach the We written Reikspiel.
-[X] [Johann] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
-[X] [EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[X] Ranald's Coin - The Gambler on this one.
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Go down there and see what you can acquire.
-[X] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[X] [PENT] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] [SOC] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Help Gunnar with Tomb Construction
-[X] [COIN] The Gambler: Help the We establish new nest below the Citadel.

I like it @Briefvoice.

Also approvaling for this since it has the Gunnar option.

[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
 
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Khona Moshr said:
So this has me really curious about Kragg's work because since he is comparing it to Ghal-Maraz It makes me think that he wants to atleast equal the work of Ghal-Maraz in a faction of the time.
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To my understanding, we paid enough Favor for this to be Kragg's masterwork. It's actually impossible to pay more Favor than we did, since anything greater than 25 would be some impossible collaboration between Thorek and Kragg.
 
Again, guys:
BoneyM said:
You get one turn grace period to find a new organization/minion and after that you're paying a full action and the other half is wasted. If you try to exploit this the grace period disappears.



Oh. Letting them run free doesn't let you recoup the action sink of managing them. Give them the boot or give them work.
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Letting Johann just do his own thing is unfortunately wasteful.
 
[X] Turn 20 Down with Clan Mors


[X] Plan Citadel Focus
-[X][Max] Current Task: Have Maximilian teach the We written Reikspiel.
-[X][Johann] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
-[X][EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X][Social] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X][Penthouse] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X][Free] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, assist him with human burial rites.
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] Write in: You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Help Johann with his investigations there, with an eye to covertly disrupting the Skaven ability to deal with the spiders while you're there.
-[X] The Gambler: Clan Mors investigation/sabotage

Some tweaks applied
 
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[X] Plan Talk to me Baby (Spider)
-[X] [JOHANN] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[X] [MAX] Current Task: Teach the We written Reikspiel.
-[X] [EIC] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[X] Gambler
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task
--[X] Assist Gunnar with burial rites
-[X] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X] [COIN] The Gambler

[X] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
[X] Not Plan TNE
 
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spiritualatheist said:
Full disclosure: it isn't any more, I now have Max teaching Reikspiel and I swapped the shrine for the snek juice. Sorry for any confusion.
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Meh it's cool and I missed your vote which kinda sucked of me.
Also:

[X] Not Plan TNE
-[X] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[X] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[X] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[X] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[X] Gambler bonus
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, human burial rites.
-[X] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.

[X] Plan TNE v3
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
Again, guys:

Letting Johann just do his own thing is unfortunately wasteful.
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...I don't think that quote means what you think it means?
BoneyM said:
Oh. Letting them run free doesn't let you recoup the action sink of managing them. Give them the boot or give them work.
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We're giving him work. His work is investigating Clan Mors. I read Boney's response as "what happens if we just don't give him any commands".
 
I really don't think we need three actions dedicated to making the spiders better communicators, guys. If nothing else, making Max work on our projects again while Johann blows into town and gets to focus on his pet projects seems likely to engender bad feelings.
 
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