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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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veekie said:
Action choke. Reikspiel is the only one we can throw a minion at.
I figured we want our own lab first for the AspBlood. Thats just me though.
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Yeah...dammit...I misunderstood when exactly we get the benefits from the tower...ok, you got me there. I guess I'll make an additional one switching Wolf for Aspblood and approval vote both.
 
Question -- if we take some of the We actions, like helping them establish a base somewhere or getting them a way to coordinate and communicate with others... Does that count as Protecting?

(Potentially for both the We and the Dwarfs - and maybe humans too - because an alliance or pooling of forces result in increased defenses for both parties.)

If so, maybe it might be worth switching to the Protector side of Ranald's Coin.


Especially since this is a new race/group, and relations are a bit... well, it's only been a little while. But if the We feel/learn/understand that Mathilde's actions are of help and protection to them, then... Then further diplomatic actions will be easier with them, no?

((However, I gotta say, I am really against teaching the We written or spoken Khazalid. Nooooo. Look, the Dwarfs are still Dwarfs; they keep their things secret. Their language is only shared to people who they are on very good terms with and know they can trust. Giant monstrous spiders though? Those are a completely new race and who the heck knows how they think or what they might do (this from the Dwarf perspective, I mean) so... yeah.))
((Also also, I really really do not want to spare big Dwarf secrets -- and their language counts as one, I think -- on our own initiative. Not unless we really really have to, and know the other party, and so on.))
((Plus... teaching them Reikspiel and Semaphore signs is sufficient. So there's an alternative to teaching Khazalid. So yeah.))
 
@BoneyM : Could we work on a way to sanitize/obfusticate the Second Secret enough so that a) one can't figure out the first secret from the second and b) one doesn't use dhar to use it (like the theorized Ulgu plucking other winds thing?)
 
Mopman43 said:
People were talking about Mathilde and Johann doing a heist underground, and people were talking about the We, and now I have the image in my head of the Hobbit, with Mathilde as Gandalf, Johann as Bilbo, and a bakers dozen We filling in for the Dwarfs.
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Alternatively:

Mathilde as Gandalf, the Grey Wizard
Titus as Bilbo, the stealthy halfling
Assorted Dwarfs
and introducing Johann as Gollum, the slimy, covetous creature of the underground realm.
 
Garlak said:
Question -- if we take some of the We actions, like helping them establish a base somewhere or getting them a way to coordinate and communicate with others... Does that count as Protecting?

(Potentially for both the We and the Dwarfs - and maybe humans too - because an alliance or pooling of forces result in increased defenses for both parties.)

If so, maybe it might be worth switching to the Protector side of Ranald's Coin.


Especially since this is a new race/group, and relations are a bit... well, it's only been a little while. But if the We feel/learn/understand that Mathilde's actions are of help and protection to them, then... Then further diplomatic actions will be easier with them, no?
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No. It does not. Boney explicitly said no.


BoneyM said:
If you have to explain why that counts instead of it being absolutely straightforward obvious, you're barking up the wrong tree. "Killed Skaven that were going to attack you." Sure. "Distracted them so they couldn't attack you even though they were gonna," fine. "See because I personally mapped out a home for you that was behind our defences, I am saving you from potential future attacks-" no.
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[] Plan TNE v2
-[ ] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[ ] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[ ] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[ ] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[ ] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[ ] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[ ] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[ ] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
--[] Gambler bonus
-[ ] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[ ] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[ ] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.

[] Plan TNE v3
-[ ] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[ ] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[ ] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[ ] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[ ] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[ ] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[ ] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, human burial rites.
-[ ] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
--[] Gambler bonus
-[ ] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[ ] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[ ] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to

[] Plan TNE v4
-[ ] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[ ] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[ ] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[ ] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[ ] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[ ] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[ ] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[ ] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
--[] Gambler bonus
-[ ] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[ ] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to
-[ ] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, human burial rites.

V3 is V2 with temple swapped for Gunnar's, 4 is v2 with Wolf swapped for Gunnar.
 
Garlak said:
Question -- if we take some of the We actions, like helping them establish a base somewhere or getting them a way to coordinate and communicate with others... Does that count as Protecting?
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Protecting involves directly protecting people from dangers we didn't cause. It's a bit too indirect.
 
Briefvoice said:
So any more comments on this one? Changes people would like to see? Is anyone even considering voting for it, or am I wasting my time by flogging it? I feel like the other plans are in a negotiation, and I'm getting an "eh".
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I'd like the Asp blood action gone. We should wait until we have a lab that isn't shared with the other wizards. I'm also not too enthused by Max teaching the spiders Reikspiel instead of Mathilde teaching them semaphore.

You've also got the coin noted twice, which is unnecessary.
 
All right, new version of my plan in response to feedback and QM comments, and also cleaned up a bit for readability:

[] Plan Like A Good Neighbour
-[][MAX] Current Task: Have Maximilian teach the We written Reikspiel.
-[][JOHANN] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
-[][EIC] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[][PENTHOUSE] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[][SOCIAL] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[] You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Go down there and see what you can acquire.
--[] Gambler
-[] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task
--[] Assist Gunnar with burial rites

This adopts @veekie's "Citadel Combo synergy" since we won't get the benefit of a lab for snek juice study this turn. I also changed Max's action so we have a backup source of communication in case one of the teaching attempts fails.

Again, justification for the EIC approach here, here, and here.

EDIT: Updated version here.
 
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Veekie is right, the potential to synchronize and accomplish something greater than the sum of the whole is there. And that means Johann going to investigate Clan Mors.
 
Basically the problem with the Secrets is that the first is about as simple as 'in order to build a house, you need to use bricks', and the second is 'how to make your bricks all fall down', and anybody looking at the second can go 'wait, we were supposed to use bricks!?' and then everybody is building houses, except the houses are actually magical atrocities that can look High Magic in the eye and not back down.
Garlak said:
Question -- if we take some of the We actions, like helping them establish a base somewhere or getting them a way to coordinate and communicate with others... Does that count as Protecting?

(Potentially for both the We and the Dwarfs - and maybe humans too - because an alliance or pooling of forces result in increased defenses for both parties.)

If so, maybe it might be worth switching to the Protector side of Ranald's Coin.
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Basically, if they can stand there as a bystander and understand that we were helping them entirely without any context, it probably counts. Having to give a long explanation why means it's a matter of opinion, and therefore not valid.
 
I'm just going to throw a plan up, since I don't THINK I've done it before? and see what happens.

[] Plan Long Term Benefits
-[] Current Task: Have Maximilian investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Skryre.
-[] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[] Deliver King Belegar's request to the College for a translation item (does not cost an action).
-[] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnars, helping him design proper Morrite Tombs and conduct funeral rites.
-[] [Additional Task] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[] The Deceiver: Use The Deceiver to say we learned such during our time in Stirland learning from the Morrites.

Allow Maxi to learn about the Webs, let Johann bother the Skaven as he wants, make sure that the EIC DON'T fuck over the Empire or get a Grudge against them by trying some buisness BS with the Dwarves, have the College interact with Belegar more directly, move the Spiders below the Citadel so they can eat Skaven, set up our Temple Tavern, build out Tower for future research, and start SLing Gunnars, and playing with Doge.

Edit: Also using our Coin to sell our lie to Gunnars.

Hows that?
 
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Briefvoice said:
[] Turn 20 Down with Clan Mors
-[ ] [Max] Current Task: Have Maximillian teach the We written Reikspiel.
-[ ] [Johann] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
-[ ] [EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[ ] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[ ] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[ ] You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Go down there and cause some havoc.
--[] Ranald's Coin - The Gambler on this one.
-[ ] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[ ] [PENT] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -50gc for 2 rooms.
-[ ] [SOC] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Help Gunnar with Tomb Construction
-[ ] [COIN] The Gambler: Investigate Pressure on Clan Mors

So any more comments on this one? Changes people would like to see? Is anyone even considering voting for it, or am I wasting my time by flogging it? I feel like the other plans are in a negotiation, and I'm getting an "eh".
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The issue with causing some havoc is that it doesn't really benefit us much, as I see it. Currently, the Skaven are doing exactly what we want them to, i.e. killing each other. Causing havoc runs the risk of the clans unifiying against an external threat, and we simply aren't ready for that to happen yet.
 
Briefvoice said:
any more comments on this one? Changes people would like to see? Is anyone even considering voting for it, or am I wasting my time by flogging it? I feel like the other plans are in a negotiation, and I'm getting an "eh".
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I like it, I'm going to approval vote it. The one thing I'm not completely sold on is the causing havoc rather than robbing blind. Are you intending for mor to lose ground to the other two, or just looking for targets of opportunity? What do you think of the argument that causing havoc invites reprisal on the dwarves? if you were thinking doppelganger, who would you point them at?
 
I understand the, concerns, regarding Reikspeil, but it's the only way we can teach communication via a minion. We can teach them semaphore later. Or even recommend it to the Dwarves once they have the item for translation.
 
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Nix's Warden said:
I'm just going to throw a plan up, since I don't THINK I've done it before? and see what happens.

[] Plan Long Term Benefits
-[] Current Task: Have Maximilian investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Skryre.
-[] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[] Deliver King Belegar's request to the College for a translation item (does not cost an action).
-[] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnars, helping him design proper Morrite Tombs and conduct funeral rites.
-[] [Additional Task] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)

Allow Maxi to learn about the Webs, let Johann bother the Skaven as he wants, make sure that the EIC DON'T fuck over the Empire or get a Grudge against them by trying some buisness BS with the Dwarves, have the College interact with Belegar more directly, move the Spiders below the Citadel so they can eat Skaven, set up our Temple Tavern, build out Tower for future research, and start SLing Gunnars, and playing with Doge.

Hows that?
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recklessly playing with our doggo seems like a bad idea, also making the we reliant on one item that can break or get lost or stolen seems like a bad idea.
 
Finaly version of my plan I think; I've been convinced that without our own personal lab set up it's not really best to start up researching the magic juice. And I would like to get an in for learning greatsword skills from Gunnar later on down the line.
[] Plan Talk to me Baby (Spider)
-[] [JOHANN] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[] [MAX] Current Task: Teach the We written Reikspiel.
-[] [EIC] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[] Gambler
-[] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task
--[] Assist Gunnar with burial rites
-[] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[] [COIN] The Gambler
 
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Abhorsen said:
@BoneyM : Could we work on a way to sanitize/obfusticate the Second Secret enough so that a) one can't figure out the first secret from the second and b) one doesn't use dhar to use it (like the theorized Ulgu plucking other winds thing?)
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Absolutely impossible. If someone understands enough about Dhar to use the Second Secret, they're past the point where the First is immediately obvious.

Abhorsen said:
@BoneyM : About what percentage of Dwarves in K8P speak Reikspiel?
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A quarter are fluent, another quarter at 'which way to the tavern' level.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
I understand the, concerns, regarding Reikspeil, but it's the only way we can teach communication via a minion.
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But do we want them to be able to communicate with people who aren't us? The vote to recommend an alliance was based on getting to know one another before getting too close. In the same spirit, lets see how good the We are as allies before giving them the capacity for betrayal.
 
Briefvoice said:
[] Turn 20 Down with Clan Mors
-[ ] [Max] Current Task: Have Maximillian teach the We written Reikspiel.
-[ ] [Johann] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
-[ ] [EIC] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[ ] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[ ] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[ ] You've mapped the territory of Clan Mors. Go down there and cause some havoc.
--[] Ranald's Coin - The Gambler on this one.
-[ ] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[ ] [PENT] Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -50gc for 2 rooms.
-[ ] [SOC] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Help Gunnar with Tomb Construction
-[ ] [COIN] The Gambler: Investigate Pressure on Clan Mors

So any more comments on this one? Changes people would like to see? Is anyone even considering voting for it, or am I wasting my time by flogging it? I feel like the other plans are in a negotiation, and I'm getting an "eh".
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There's nothing wrong with it, I just don't particularly want to go hard on Clan Mors this turn. We mapped them out last turn, we're not an Intrigue advisor, and any losses will be swiftly made up because that's how Skaven do. I feel like we want to ready actions to punch down at Mors for a turn or two before a Dwarf reclamation.
 
picklepikkl said:
@CuttleFish2.0 Give your plan a name, also you have Ranald's Coin doing two different things.

That said, it looks good and I will definitely approval vote for it.
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Somehow cut off the name when I was copying, then dumb error copying Coin assignment from other plan. I definitely DON'T want to do any messing about with Skaven this turn personally. too much potential for compounding failures.
 
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