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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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wrecksalot said:
I want to teach the We writing to increase their long term memory storage potential. oral tradition is nice and all, but written stuff tends to last longer.
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Better to go for Semaphore for now.

It can be done at range and silently which will be a necessity for collaboration and communication in battle.

The Item gets us 3 Dawi Favour which is great, plus it will allow more complex and abstract forms of communication.

Might be more fun to help the WE develop their own form of written language, maybe some form of Web Tapestries?

For those pushing Skaven Clan Mors for Johan.... Think again.

Johan made it clear his goal was to try and derive Human Tech or Magitech based upon Skaven Tech but without using Warpstone.

There is nothing of value to learn for Johan beyond the Gear produced by Clan Skrye.

We really should help out our Pal Gunnar too, not only did he have our back after Mork's Chucklefuckery, but he has Greatsword skills we can benefit from and Lore of the Dawi Death God which may be useful for our "Special Book" Learning.
 
picklepikkl said:
Do we have any indication that EIC merchants are likely to lie to dwarves or cheat them? Any at all? I am paying close attention, and as far as I can tell, the things that Mathilde's observations have flagged as potentially problematic for the EIC aren't "this organization's members are dishonest" but "this organization is growing frighteningly powerful." We're expending a lot of effort worrying about something that might be egg on our face as opposed to something that we have already worried might be a threat to regional stability and prosperity.

The logo for the EIC is a joke by BoneyM. That's the logo of the East India Trading Company, a corporate entity so powerful that it was basically a nation-state of its own. In a very real sense, for a long time it ruled substantial portions of England's colonial possessions, not the crown. That's the Bad Ending for the EIC, not "we fuck up with the dwarves."
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Human merchants make lying and deliberate rounding errors as a matter of course.
Dwarfs don't consider a rounding error like that acceptable.
wrecksalot said:
I'd rather teach the we dwarven semaphore instead of personally yoinking stuff from the skaven again, it would be useful in an emergency.
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Citadel combo synergy. We'd need to clear some space under the Citadel for the spiders anyway. Might as well drag Johann along and see how much two Magisters can nab.
 
BoneyM said:
Putting matrixes inside wizards is a no-go. It'll implode nastily if they start casting any spell.
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The point of the mission is stealth, Johann wouldn't need to cast any spell since we are basically observing and maybe stealing a bit of Skaven tech. Of course we could do that ourselves but it would give Johann a chance to see the Skaven in their somewhat natural habitat, which would probably put us in his good books.
 
So that it actually looks like a plan and stuff:

[X] Plan Waaaghnald
-[X] Instill corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[X] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[X] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (Waaagh energy)
-[X] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[X] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[X] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[X] Write a paper on your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
-[X] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[X] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnars and Morrite Lore.
-[X] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[X] The Gambler: Ranald shrine.

That is:
3 Spider-tasks, the Ranald Shrine with Ranald helping out, Max/Mat tag-teaming on College papers, buying the Ghur item for the Dwarf Favor, and Gunnars.
 
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Okay, so I've edited my plan so it has Max writing a paper so we can get some more college favor. I thought about sending Johann after clan Mors, but WOG is that he is going to already be doing that on his own time, so I don't think we need to worry about it.

The Skaven can wait. They are currently in the middle of a full on war between their clans, so let's not poke them and give them a reason to unify, yeah?

spiritualatheist said:
[ ] Plan Not Really Preliminary Anymore
-[ ] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[ ] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[ ] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[ ] Gambler
-[ ] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: specify who and how.
--[ ] Assist Gunnar with burial rites for Humans
-[ ] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[ ] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[ ] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[ ] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[ ] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[ ] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.
--[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[ ] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
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Warmach1ne32 said:
The point of the mission is stealth, Johann wouldn't need to cast any spell since we are basically observing and maybe stealing a bit of Skaven tech. Of course we could do that ourselves but it would give Johann a chance to see the Skaven in their somewhat natural habitat, which would probably put us in his good books.
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Johann's spent a year and counting building up to having access to the rats. Assume he's got a plan beyond 'hope there's a Grey Wizard in the area that's feeling helpful'.
 
BoneyM said:
"Literally once ever, when Altdorf was besieged and the Grand Theogonist got the Liber Mortis out and HEY WAIT A MINUTE"
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Mathilde flips the Coin to the sign of The Deceiver.

"You've found my secret, boys. I'm the reincarnation of the dead Grand Theogonist. Why do you think I'm so opposed to the Church of Sigmar? I've already had a lifetime of their crap."
 
veekie said:
Human merchants make lying and deliberate rounding errors as a matter of course.
Dwarfs don't consider a rounding error like that acceptable.

Citadel combo synergy. We'd need to clear some space under the Citadel for the spiders anyway. Might as well drag Johann along and see how much two Magisters can nab.
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I figure that helping the spiders move in there would clear all the space they needed.
 
BoneyM said:
"Hey, she did something magic and all the undead fell down. What's the historical precedent for that?"

"Literally once ever, when Altdorf was besieged and the Grand Theogonist got the Liber Mortis out and HEY WAIT A MINUTE"
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Hmm, but what if we started building up a story for this. We start by poking small things (the waagh, maybe warpstone, small spells, etc.) maybe while wearing the Protector coin, then do it on bigger things, while avoiding doing it on the undead, so as not to make that connection. This seems to build a reasonable narrative for us to be good at poking without raising too many questions (I hope).
 
You know, I'm very tempted to go with Gunnar, too.

Sword buddies, yes, but we would be legit helping, and perhaps making a friend along the way.

We were given the perfect in this turn, and the purchase of Morr books helps quite a bit as we can actually give him reference materials too.
 
TotallyNotEvil said:
You know, I'm very tempted to go with Gunnar, too.

Sword buddies, yes, but we would be legit helping, and perhaps making a friend along the way.

We were given the perfect in this turn, and the purchase of Morr books helps quite a bit as we can actually give him reference materials too.
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I need to go back and reread our experiences with the Morrite Knights, I think.
 
Dispelling single things is very easily explainable. The thing with the Second Secret of Dhar is it implodes everything that is Dhar in the blast radius. Every undead, every spell, every construct. It chain reactions through it and the only solution if you're depending on that Dhar is to get the hell out of the area.

Best case scenario is "we absolutely fucking need you to tell us what you just did because HOLY SHIT THE UNDEAD ARE AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT ON A REGULAR BASIS TELL US TELL US NOW WE NEED YOU TO TELL US"
 
veekie said:
Human merchants make lying and deliberate rounding errors as a matter of course.
Dwarfs don't consider a rounding error like that acceptable.

Citadel combo synergy. We'd need to clear some space under the Citadel for the spiders anyway. Might as well drag Johann along and see how much two Magisters can nab.
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If pissing about under the Citadel it is better to make it a sabotage/falseflag mission to get them killing each other even more.

Then if an opportunity to yoink a Lightning Cannon or GTA a Doomwheel appears we can steal it while they are all busy fighting each other.
 
BoneyM said:
Johann's spent a year and counting building up to having access to the rats. Assume he's got a plan beyond 'hope there's a Grey Wizard in the area that's feeling helpful'.
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fair enough, is it better then going invisible and just yoinking something in somewhat mint condition (as in not broken in battle)? we could just mention that we could do this if he wanted more advanced tech by sneaking into a Skaven lab/workshop or something that has no chance of getting destroyed in the fighting cause Skaven probably made self-destruct buttons on their labs.
 
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BoneyM said:
Dispelling single things is very easily explainable. The thing with the Second Secret of Dhar is it implodes everything that is Dhar in the blast radius. Every undead, every spell, every construct. It chain reactions through it and the only solution if you're depending on that Dhar is to get the hell out of the area.

Best case scenario is "we absolutely fucking need you to tell us what you just did because HOLY SHIT THE UNDEAD ARE AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT ON A REGULAR BASIS TELL US TELL US NOW WE NEED YOU TO TELL US"
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Mathilde: "The hard part is doing the exact opposite of what any knowledgeable Wizard would tell you to do!"
Andmeuths said:
Out of curiosity what action do you plan on dropping if you are going with Gunnar?
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Councillor actions are freebies, so it would replace Wolf.
 
Here is my offer of a plan:

[] Plan Like A Good Neighbour
-[][MAX] Current Task: Have Maximilian investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[][JOHANN] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
-[][EIC] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[] Gambler
-[] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task
--[] Assist Gunnar with burial rites
-[] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)

This plan focuses on prosocial actions that accomplish our own major tasks (3 assignment actions: Max's and two personal ones, with Gambler on the riskiest action likeliest to involve conflict), launders College Favour to Dwarf Favour, helps Gunnar out and establishes our Morrite-lore-cred, and finally gets a lab outfitted for studying snek juice. My justification for the EIC action has been argued in several places, most notably here, here, and here.

Also, quality time with a Very Very Good Boy.

EDIT: to show my work: "Teach the We Dwarven semaphore" "Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel" and "Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp" cost actions. "Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task" and "Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him." are normally free, but the second one costs an action. "Request the translation item yourself" and "Have a tower built atop Karag Nar" are free.

EDIT2: Updated version here.
 
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veekie said:
The main thrust of this plan is to point half our actions at the Citadel:
-We go see what else we can liberate from Mors. If we found Gromril lying around in their market theres probably more.
-We appease Johann a bit by letting him advance his mission(this also means that if Johann is adequately stealthy we can run a 2x Magister mission)
-With the probing we can also identify where would be a good place for the spiders to nest.
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I like your logic a lot! The only thing i'd ask for is a swap of written to semaphore, for reasons mentioned above. (Works at range, easy to coordinate w dwarves in the field, synergizes with magic item)

spiritualatheist said:
Both good points, and neither of them are doing anything critical right now. What paper do you suggest?
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The Waaagggh, as you picked in your update. :)

BoneyM said:
Johann's spent a year and counting building up to having access to the rats. Assume he's got a plan beyond 'hope there's a Grey Wizard in the area that's feeling helpful'.
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We might even learn something from him. I'm thinking that there have to be at least basic examples of skaventech in the hands of clan mor, and I like the idea of starting relatively simple before we try and get ahold of a lightning canon or some such.
 
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picklepikkl said:
Citation? When have we seen Mathilde worry about this being a routine thing, in the EIC or even out of it? Everything I remember Wilhelmina doing with the EIC was scrupulously honest.
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We're seeing it right now.

What, you think Mathilde wants to ensure scrupulous honesty with the dwarves specifically because their already scrupulously honest?
 
Guile said:
So that it actually looks like a plan and stuff:

[ ] Plan Waaaghnald
-[ ] Instill corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[ ] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[ ] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (Waaagh energy)
-[ ] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[ ] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[ ] Write a paper on your personal understanding of countering Waaagh Magic.
-[ ] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[ ] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnars and Morrite Lore.
-[ ] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[ ] The Gambler: Ranald shrine.

That is:
3 Spider-tasks, the Ranald Shrine with Ranald helping out, Max/Mat tag-teaming on College papers, buying the Ghur item for the Dwarf Favor, and Gunnars.
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This is now my favourite Vote Plan.

I will vote for this.
 
[] Plan TNE v2
-[ ] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[ ] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[ ] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[ ] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[ ] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[ ] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[ ] You have acquired the possession of the Temple where Ranald mugged Mork. Set up a shrine and spread knowledge of it throughout Karag Nar.
-[ ] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
--[] Gambler bonus
-[ ] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[ ] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[ ] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to.

[] Plan TNE v3
-[ ] Have Maximilian attempt to write a paper (choose which from 'Publish or Perish')
--[ ] Write a paper on the Waaagh energy and magic witnessed during the Expedition.
-[ ] Current Task: Have Johann investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[ ] Instil corporate policy: always be scrupulously honest when dealing with Dwarves.
-[ ] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[ ] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[ ] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
-[ ] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task: Gunnar, human burial rites.
-[ ] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
--[] Gambler bonus
-[ ] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[ ] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)
-[ ] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to

After this, we will still have two turns to do the Shrine, but Gunnar has the perfect opening right now.

I think we should definitely finish Advanced Greatswords by the time we get the Sword. Gunnar offers a unique chance of adding some dwarf bladework to the trait, and seems cool besides.

Quick reminder that he has six thousand years of swording tradition to drawn from, and dwarves in general have significantly higher Weapon Skill than humans.

A unique trait + cool scene + new friend seems worth it.

Ranald himself says it's cool if it gets done by Turn 22, who am I to criticize? "Getting things out of the way" only works when you aren't sacrificing actual time sensitive things. We can do it next turn.
 
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picklepikkl said:
Here is my offer of a plan:

[] Plan Like A Good Neighbour
-[][MAX] Current Task: Have Maximilian investigate the properties of the spiders' webs.
-[][JOHANN] Allow him to spend all his time investigating Clan Mors.
-[][EIC] Instil corporate policy: long-term financial good of the Empire.
-[] Teach the We Dwarven semaphore.
-[] Help the We establish their new nest below the Citadel.
--[] Gambler
-[] Request the translation item yourself (does not cost an action; converts 3 College Favour to Dwarf Favour).
-[] Spend time assisting with a fellow councillor's task
--[ ] Assist Gunnar with burial rites
-[] Investigate the constantly-dripping blood of the Wisdom's Asp. Current accumulation: 12 gallons.
-[] Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
-[] Wolf is now fully grown, and is a very large dog or a regular-sized wolf. Train him. (increases his intelligence, may deepen Familiar bond)

This plan focuses on prosocial actions that accomplish our own major tasks (3 assignment actions: Max's and two personal ones, with Gambler on the riskiest action likeliest to involve conflict), launders College Favour to Dwarf Favour, helps Gunnar out and establishes our Morrite-lore-cred, and finally gets a lab outfitted for studying snek juice.

Also, quality time with a Very Very Good Boy.
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the only thing I would change is swapping Max's action to teaching Reikspiel, written language is great for the transmission of knowledge.
 
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