I would not really call the Book a research project in and of itself, its a resource that will likely help with several projects but it's not really the start of its own field of study/focus.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I would not really call the Book a research project in and of itself, its a resource that will likely help with several projects but it's not really the start of its own field of study/focus.
Seriously speaking, people fear magic and will strongly prefer not to use things which are blatantly magical and unnatural in nature. Shadowsteeds are blatantly magical and unnatural, which means that the riders are likely to blame the steed for any bout of impotence, constipation or other general issues.Do you sit on your genitals?
(More seriously, I presume shadowsteeds come with shadow saddles. Also: Pants exist.)
Important clarification: Rifling is NOT a late era innovation. People knew spinning projectiles flew straighter and further, and fletched arrows to induce spin in flight for a long time BEFORE guns were a thing, and it was something that was done to guns and cannon for a long time before it became widespread.
The core problem was twofold:
-Metallurgy. Rifling was a structural weakness in the gun/cannon, which is important when barrel strength could not consistently contain the explosion as it is. Dwarfs do not have this problem, their metallurgy is literally inhuman.
-Cost. Rifling prior to the development of machine tools(especially the ultra hard tool steels), involved hard, detail work by a specialized artisan, which given that guns and cannon were considered crude weapons early on, meant that few artisans of the necessary skill were making guns because there wasn't anyone paying enough to be worth the trouble.
Basically, the dwarfs have everything they need to make an effective rifled longarm, and know how to do so but their best craftsmen are staunch traditionalists who refuse to make guns and theres not really a lot of buyers beyond eccentric Grey Wizards, Witch Hunters and noblemen who fancy themselves to be fine gunners.
The question isn't whether a gun is possible or not. The question is whether its a good use of actions and resources for the gain. Our equipment configuation is pretty tight too(BoneyM had indicated that equipment bulk DOES matter):
-Back(shoulder to thigh) - Greatsword.
-Hip - Pistol
We could fit another item of maybe 3-4 ft long in a hip sheath without encumbrance, our pockets should be filled with gun ammunition already.
The kind of powerful crossbow you'd use for sniping at a long distance should be a slung on your back due to their size, and would require an additional quiver to carry bolts for it.
Alternatively we leave the long range sniping to the dwarf rangers, pick up Shadow Knives and do what we do best.
Odds are good that we won't be seeing this sort of large push again until enemy leadership makes themselves known for a critical clash. Its just so much more effective, given a stable base camp to work from, to raid with dwarf gloryseekers over an extended period to bleed enemy numbers before taking Karags room by room, fortifying as they advance.
For the magical stuff and the secret stuff we don't want the vault separate from our working area.
That said, we don't exactly need a LARGE vault either, this is mainly for books and reagents. Concealment may be better than depth.
Also keep in mind that the Karag is built with anti-air artillery in mind and it'd either be an overwhelmingly powerful enemy which knows exactly what its looking for...or it's not going to do this thing which is going to hurt a lot for no reliable gain?
Yeah, just recall how much of a HELL we had building a functioning spy network from scratch.
Being able to inherit a network is an enormous boon.
When we started in Stirland the Stirland spy network was one wizard in the basement.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
Could you elaborate, please? I explained why I disagree with this statement but I have not heard any counter-arguments.
Esbern and Seija are lost cases - they have been attached to knights of Taal before the campaign, during it and wish to remain so in the future. I do not see them accepting any offers - or even staying long enough to write the papers.
On academics being cutthroat - I know, I write papers for a living. However, I doubt that it is the first thing on their mind - as each of them has their own goal (agriculture work for Panoramia, metalsmith studies and skaventech hunting for the gold wizards) and general magical theory is a bit off their chosen field, so I expect that more likely than not they are going to concentrate their efforts in their preferred fields.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
*points in the direction of Black Crag/Karag Drazh*
That is why honestly in my opinion. It is The Orc stronghold and its one of the biggest threats for Death's Pass and the new trade route and its going to be a big part of the Watch' duties and it happens that as a spymaster focused on external things we should be keeping a very wary eye on Black Crag. Having men and women and people to do things with in regards to partolling the area and countering its infulence means our spymaster job has more levers and tools to apply to the situation.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I get that was the point you wanted to make. I just think it was a really weird way to word it. Not a big deal.
It's right there in the vote description: "This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks, as leader of the Undumgi and point of contact for the Ulricans." If you only want the option for the non-leadership sideprojects it will help, then you're ignoring that leadership is the main point of taking the option. I don't want Mathilde to be leader of the Undumgi or Mayor or whatever, therefore I don't want to take the option that is explicitly for doing that. Yes, we can take the option and then not follow up on it by not choosing to take a leadership position, but I'd rather just take a different option altogether instead.
Writing the paper actually removes a research project from our backlog. It'll get done in this 3-month period rather than being something we have to sink an action (or multiple actions) into in the future. Especially since we'll have other to help us write instead of doing the entire thing ourselves.
Aegon Targaryen
Dragonking of Fuyuki
- Location
- Romania
CuttleFish2.0
Friendly neighborhood cuttlefish
- Location
- Seattle, Washington.
Wizard Chic was a problem before the Quaysh juice, and cutting through it with Van Hal's money was what allowed us to acquire it. And studying the Quaysh juice was available from Turn 8, we simply decided not to take it. Maybe for good reason. But either way that state of affairs has lasted since then. We also had the Shyish swords since turn six and didn't research them until turn 18. The threads track recording for getting around to research is poor.
No there isn't, not in this instance. The Undumgi are the legitimate power charged with patrolling and securing a portion of the pass, therefore any taxes they collect are in support of themselves doing that; they'll collect tolls from merchants to support themselves patrolling the pass to collect tolls from merchants to support themselves patrolling the pass to coll- you see where I'm going. Literally the only legitimacy involved is the ability to make the pass safe, might in this case does make right.
To be fair....the primary difference is that in the former case, you actually provide the associated service. Namely, you maintain and patrol the road, in this case, to ensure its safety.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
There are a bunch of reasons, but one of the main ones, quite possibly more important than many of the others, that I haven't been seeing mentioned, is that it lets us mess with Ranald again.
Back when we had control of the Stirland watch, we had the option to convert them to his worship and redeem his aspect of the Protector. We had confirmation that that would be a step towards actually getting that done, I think, and that situation was much worse than this one is. There were less of them, they were all superstitious, none of them liked Ranald or considered him respectable, trying to push for something they didn't want dropped morale terribly, and they were already all Sigmarites anyways.
In contrast, there's a standing army of these guys, they're already all soldiers of fortune who know we worship Ranald and are quite happy to worship him too, and pushing Ranald worship would increase their morale because they know luck is important and they like being lucky.
If we want to make Ranald a respectable god who won't get his shrines torn down when anybody important looks at them, this is our opportunity. The only authorities around here who could stop it got the whitewashed version of his spheres from us, so there's nothing stopping us from bringing that lie by omission closer to the truth of things, unlike in the empire where every noble with more than three coins to their name would set themselves against us when they saw what we were doing.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Gah, this is so obvious I don't know why I didn't say it earlier:
It's much easier to have two jobs (being spymaster and being a wizard) than it is to juggle three jobs (being leader of the Undumgi). Heck, as we clear up old research stuff we can focus on spymastering and fit in whatever other side jobs we want. But if we take on three jobs then we'll have a harder time doing other projects. Back in Stirland, research stuff was often sidelined as the third wheel. I don't want to repeat that.
It's much easier to have two jobs (being spymaster and being a wizard) than it is to juggle three jobs (being leader of the Undumgi). Heck, as we clear up old research stuff we can focus on spymastering and fit in whatever other side jobs we want. But if we take on three jobs then we'll have a harder time doing other projects. Back in Stirland, research stuff was often sidelined as the third wheel. I don't want to repeat that.
That would work for the trolls but drip feeding Slayers to fast breeding enemies like orcs and Skaven is pointless.
That said future advances will probably go peak by peak rather than getting about a quarter of the hold at once.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
I disagree that leadership is the only attraction of this option, half of my arguments about it are not so much about hard leadership but about soft influence in the organization. We do not necessarily need to lead the organisation, but if we prefer not to having the guy in charge in our debt and knowing that it is because of us he has the position brings almost the same set of benefits.
And I disagree that it is three actual jobs. I see the undumgi as an instrument of a spymaster and am baffled on why one would deprive herself of it if offered.
Last edited:
- Location
- USA
[X] Scout the rest of the Eight Peaks, to find out what other horrors are waiting out there.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with its reconquest, as a Spymaster focused on threats within the Karak.
[X] You could help the Undumgi and the Ulricans establish themselves.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks, as leader of the Undumgi and point of contact for the Ulricans.
[X] There's a lot of prime real estate currently unclaimed. Stake out a prime position for a wizard's tower.
This suggests a future catching up on your pre-existing study topics.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks with its reconquest, as a Spymaster focused on threats within the Karak.
[X] You could help the Undumgi and the Ulricans establish themselves.
This suggests a future assisting Karak Eight Peaks, as leader of the Undumgi and point of contact for the Ulricans.
[X] There's a lot of prime real estate currently unclaimed. Stake out a prime position for a wizard's tower.
This suggests a future catching up on your pre-existing study topics.
Nix's Warden
Welcome to Hades
- Location
- United States
I honestly forgot about that and I feel terrible about it. Messing with Ranald is always fun.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Yep. As the outward-facing spymaster (which is all but sure to win at this point), we will be dealing with reports from the Watch constantly - so it's best to make sure whoever's in charge is someone we like and is willing to work with us.
Plus, it lets us set up the temple to Ranald, and generally make sure Sigmar doesn't get his grubby hands all over the mountain.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
But the soft influence is the side projects. The hard influence is explicitly what taking the option is best for supporting. If you only want half of what the option is for, then maybe it's not your best choice.
I can't argue with that. If you want Ranald to be patron of the Undumgi, this is probably the best way of doing it. Me, I think just establishing a tavern and supporting Ranald worship in the area is good enough.
Night_stalker
Slava Ukraini!
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Also the name of a Andy Serkis movie!
But yeah, the idea is sound. We have a buncha knights out here, a ready source of test mater- I mean, Greenskins, and a lot of time.
Yeah, that might dissuade them for a time. Drakenhof is old, it being leveled will surely send a message.
See us, when we made a toy horsie neigh. Also, foreshadowing?
Also a possible temple to Ranald!
*Angry Morrite noises*
Do not joke about that stuff, seriously.
Plus, we can make it like Morr, wherein one can worship Ranald AND Ulric at the same time.
Or at least look into it.
*Hisses*
Do not speak it's name, less we get beset with it. Again.
Also requires being near a wizard, AKA, the splash zone.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] You could help the Undumgi and the Ulricans establish themselves.
Sure, does feel better to not miss out on taverning.
Sure, does feel better to not miss out on taverning.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
So if we can't use it for magic, how is it going to be any use? We can't use it for enchantment, that's magic.
The Dwarves have rifling, they use it on their handguns. Hell, humans have rifling, although it's specialist weapons only for them. Crossbows still outrange rifles handguns on the tabletop.
I'd think crossbow/greatsword would fall under rule of cool and fitting a sideways slung quiver of bolts across lower back is possible.
Also, if you think we're so encumbered already, I assume you're pushing for staff/axe for our eventual +1 magic item?
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
I find the fact that we may opt out of some of the benefits of the option not particularly relevant for my choice if the benefits we are not opting out are still better than the alternative vote.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I wonder if there'll be "synergy" between Wizard Tower and Taverning.
Imagine the ground floor of the tower being the tavern itself, serving both alcoholic classics as well as more... experimental brews, such as Zhuf-Ale: "Come dance with your shadow!".
Imagine the ground floor of the tower being the tavern itself, serving both alcoholic classics as well as more... experimental brews, such as Zhuf-Ale: "Come dance with your shadow!".
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is what we're doing during the winding down of the campaign. They're going to still be here at least until the knights leave, which won't be until after the actions taken during this time.
The option doesn't actually build a tavern or anything else. It's helping the Undumgi get established, and none of the follow-up sideprojects like building taverns or making a spy network. It'll help doing those things in later follow up actions, but the main thing it helps with is taking that leadership position.
I can think of two ways:
- The same way Necromancers cast, they use Shysh to insulate themselves from the madness of Dhar, we can potentially use Ulgu to touch upon the far more harmonious High Magic (if that is what it is)
- The same way pre-College alchemists manipulated their reagents through purely physical means (not channeling magic at all) to produce their formulas