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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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thought - some of Sabrina's controlling tendencies come from our penchant for making highly itemized votes of points to cover.

I'm also going to suggest that if we start getting a lengthy list of votes in absentia it should signal we are trying to do too much each vote for the current situation.

Also why could I see a girl wishing for aliens to visit earth and Kyubey taking her soul... and then going "I'm an alien".

Girl would be so mad at wasting her wish
 
DB_Explorer said:
Also why could I see a girl wishing for aliens to visit earth and Kyubey taking her soul... and then going "I'm an alien".

Girl would be so mad at wasting her wish
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You can probably see that because the rat bastard would target the girl who would make that wish, say exactly that, then explain all the rat bastard things its species has done. Boom, instant witch. I suspect these sorts of witchbait are what make up most of the witch population.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Apr 8, 2019 at 6:17 AM, finished with 151170 posts and 8 votes.
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    [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You won't share anything without permission, and you don't foresee Sayaka causing issues if she figures it out - you're just warning Homura so she isn't entirely blindsided if it happens.
    ---[x] If Sayaka does figure it out, it'll have her supporting Homura even more.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's ever brought grief seeds between loops in her inventory
    -[x] Speaking of grief seeds, if she has any grief seeds right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Puella in her childhood.
    - [x] Bring up the idea of bringing a therapist into the know, especially for people like Anri and Akiko.
    [x] Madoka has low self esteem, and always wants to help. That's why she's at such high risk of contracting.
    -[x] Sayaka had an interesting insight based on Madoka and Hitomi's performance in the Model UN.
    -[x] Discuss involving Madoka and Hitomi in Tokyo political analysis. Respect Homura's fears and concerns.
    --[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside magical girls, while still significantly assisting our group.
    --[x] By feeling like she's helping, she will feel less pressure to contract.
    [x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know.
    -[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    -[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    -[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    [x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    [x] Lower-priority topics:
    -[x] You're meeting with Hitomi's mother this weekend, you should ask later if Homura wants to be there or add anything to the agenda.
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's brought any Grief Seeds with her between loops.
    -[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
    -[x] Ask her if there's anything she wants to know. Avoid the Potentialbomb, but otherwise answer fully and as well as you can.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Continue talking about...
    - [x] Sayaka
    -- [x] How close she is to figuring things out
    -- [x] She may be useful if she knew everything
    - [x] Does rehatching Witches result in a filled Grief Seed or something similar? Why isn't it done?
    - [x] Madoka, Hitomi, politics, and the Tokyo Council
    -- [x] This definitely won't be on-site if it does happen, but it would help both in helping Madoka and Hitomi be useful without being meguca and help get more perspectives on what's going on.
    - [x] Bring up the idea of bringing a therapist into the know, especially for people like Anri and Akiko.
    -- [x] Bring up that you have asked the Incubator to exclude "people who your friends care about" from its memory alteration, and it seemed to have no problems with it, but you are unsure of the limits of its cooperation
    - [x] Time to eat cake and drink tea!!
    [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You won't share anything without permission, and you don't foresee Sayaka causing issues - you're just warning Homura so she isn't entirely blindsided if it happens.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Why isn't it done?
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Puella in her childhood.
    [x] Madoka has low self esteem, and always wants to help. That's why she's at such high risk of contracting.
    -[x] Sayaka had an interesting insight based on Madoka and Hitomi's performance in the Model UN.
    -[x] Discuss involving Madoka and Hitomi in Tokyo political analysis. Respect Homura's fears and concerns.
    --[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside magical girls, while still significantly assisting our group.
    --[x] By feeling like she's helping, she should feel less pressure to contract.
    [x] Leave timestop, hug the Mumi.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Continue talking about...
    -[x] Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    --[x] You won't share anything without permission, and you don't foresee Sayaka causing issues if she figures it out - you're just warning Homura so she isn't entirely blindsided if it happens.
    ---[x] If Sayaka does figure it out, it'll have her supporting Homura even more.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's ever brought grief seeds between loops in her inventory
    --[x] If she has some right now, offer to turn them into clear seeds at some point, since using them like ordinary seeds would mean eventually giving Kyuubey 'impossible' grief seeds.
    -[x] You asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping "people who your friends care about".
    --[x] You think that might be why Hitomi's mother "recently remembered" having encountered a Puella in her childhood.
    [x] Madoka has low self esteem, and always wants to help. That's why she's at such high risk of contracting.
    -[x] Sayaka had an interesting insight based on Madoka and Hitomi's performance in the Model UN.
    -[x] Discuss involving Madoka and Hitomi in Tokyo political analysis. Respect Homura's fears and concerns.
    --[x] Madoka wouldn't need to directly encounter any outside magical girls, while still significantly assisting our group.
    --[x] By feeling like she's helping, she will feel less pressure to contract.
    [x] Ask Homura if there's anything that she's wanted to know.
    -[x] If she does, answer it fully, to the best of your ability, unless it would lead to Potentialbomb.
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
    [x] Discuss Madoka's psychology the way you did Sayaka's. You should be on the same page as Homura but want to make sure.
    [x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
    -[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
    -[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.
    [x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
    -[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
    -[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.
    [x] Hitomi's mother.
    -[x] You, uh, asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping people that your friends care about. So this might be your fault.
    -[x] You're meeting with her this weekend to explain more. Does Homura want to participate or add anything to the agenda?
    -[x] Propose working with her to recruit a therapist. People like Anri and Akiko are the biggest reasons, but you feel like you want some professional help in general.
    --[x] ...Help keeping people happy. She knows what you meant.
    [x] Lower-priority topics:
    -[x] Ask Homura if she's brought any Grief Seeds with her between loops.
    -[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
    -[x] Ask her if there's anything she wants to know. Avoid the Potentialbomb, but otherwise answer fully and as well as you can.
    -[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?
    [x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
    -[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.
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SomeOneElse007 said:
I'm now imagining Haruhi Suzumiya meeting Kyubey. The phrase "rock falls everybody dies" comes to mind.
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The SOS Club- and every being aware of both Haruhi and the Incubator, those that have a survival instinct at least- would do everything in their power to keep such a meeting from happening. "Normal" Haruhi is a bit of an ass, but a Haruhi with the chronic depression mandated by any contract with Kyubey would be much worse. That's not even getting into her witch.

I don't know much about the Haruhi Suzumiya universe, but what do know points to the various powers invested in keeping Haruhi contained outweighing the Incubators enough to keep them away. Otherwise, yeah: rocks fall, everyone dies.
 
AuraTwilight said:
No, but it's also really fucked up to knowingly make a very, very young child like Yuma have the responsibility of emotionally caring for her guardian figure and be on constant suicide watch. Bombing Kyouko isn't a priority right now.
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You've seriously misunderstood what I was getting at. Giving Yuma responsibility for caring for Kyouko's emotional state would be a shitty thing to do to her even before you take into account that that would mean witchbombing her too. I just thought that the fact that Kyouko having someone who depends on her might give her something to live for.
 
Aranfan said:
Ah, I didn't get that. I thought they only noticed her 3 years ago from the start of the anime.
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A working theory (that might be completely false) is that the universe began fully formed 3 years ago in the Haruhiverse.
The truth is irrelevant, it's the notion of it that is scary.
 
Jiven said:
A working theory (that might be completely false) is that the universe began fully formed 3 years ago in the Haruhiverse.
The truth is irrelevant, it's the notion of it that is scary.
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So, an Omphalos type deal? That's... mildly horrifying.

And tying back into PMAS, could that be a thing with Moms timeline hopping? By the act of jumping into a new timeline, she's creating that timeline? Or do these alternates exist independently of her? MagiRec points towards the latter, but still, no way to disprove it...

Which makes it a moot point anyway. Forget about it.
 
The timelines exist independently of Homura, and include differences before her entry-point. Hell, Magireco confirms that there's multiple Homuras looping through countless independent timelines; the main continuity just focuses on the 'successful' Homura.
 
AuraTwilight said:
The timelines exist independently of Homura, and include differences before her entry-point. Hell, Magireco confirms that there's multiple Homuras looping through countless independent timelines; the main continuity just focuses on the 'successful' Homura.
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Once again, MagiReco is not assumed canon for PMAS.
Firnagzen said:
I'm calling Kamihama off-canon in the same way Homura Tamura is. The events didn't happen as I can't square them up, the characterizations are mostly canon (I reserve the rights to veto parts, as I see it. Like Nagisa's backstory in MagiReco; what the hell is up with that?) and the abilities/reveals about magic are... well, ask me before assuming anything from MagiReco counts.
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Shadowhisker said:
You can probably see that because the rat bastard would target the girl who would make that wish, say exactly that, then explain all the rat bastard things its species has done. Boom, instant witch. I suspect these sorts of witchbait are what make up most of the witch population.
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Girl: ... holy shit you're an asshole *punts Kyuubey*
Sabrina: Nice kick...
Girl: Who are you?
Sabrina: A girl with common interests - my card
Girl: ... *looks at card* ... Mami's Waifu?
Sabrina: ... wrong card ... *hands other card*
 
Redshirt Army said:
Hell, Rebellion features Homucifer killing her non-cooperative selves.
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Which I am still worried about. We've seen Madokami active, despite it probably not being possible for her to (not-)exist. She says so herself, in that "I wish to live" thing. If one mother can fuck around with reality independent of their nominally mortal selves, who's to say the other can't?

And we're making progress with Best Mom. Homucifer might, no, most likely will see that as being non-cooperative. Personally, I'm hoping Feathers is Dedolere, and that the theory that she is/we are just trying to Halp is right. Easier to deal with than our mom and best friend trying to murder her past self for the crime of actually winning, in spite of all odds.
 
Mmm. The reason I ended up removing that from my post is that it comes up in a wibbly-wobbly acid trip sequence that could also symbolize Homura killing her own doubts - it's not really solid evidence. Still, when dealing with omnipotent metaphysical time demons, metaphors have a tendency to become real...
 
Firnagzen said:
Homura shrugs, reaching behind her shield to produce two bottles of Coke instead, along with a bottle opener.

"Is this OK?" she asks.

You blink, and then laugh. "Sure," you say, beckoning for one.

Homura pops the top off and slides the bottle across the desk. You lean forward just long enough to catch the bottle- still cold, condensation beading on the surface.

"Where'd you even get this, anyway? Glass bottle, I mean," you say, flicking your fingernail against said bottle and taking a long pull from it.

"I've had these for... a while," Homura says. She frowns pensively, looking at her own bottle before taking a sip. "Hitomi, possibly."
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Ooh, real coke with real sugar. Good taste.

(side note: if you're in the US and want good coca-cola, go to costco: they sell boxes of coca-cola imported from a bottling plant in Mexico; check the label, but most of the time it's the stuff with real sugar, and it's way better than what you get in cans.)
Firnagzen said:
You smile at her. "And hey. Between the two of us, I bet we can hammer out something better than either one of us alone making decisions. And plans."

"What plans do you have?" Homura asks, perfectly deadpan.

"I-" You splutter, indignant. "I have plans! Kind of."

Homura raises an eyebrow at you.

"... I mean, yeah, I tend to just wing it most of the time," you grumble. You fold your arms and pout. "And you tend to prefer planning things out ahead of time, yeah?"

"Yes," Homura says.

"So... I'm bad at following long term plans," you say with a wince. "It just feels like too much happens on a day to day basis, but if you think it would be helpful, and if you want, I'd be more than willing to work on contingencies with you?"

Something almost like a smile tugs at Homura's lips. "Would you be able to follow them?"

"... Hey," you say, narrowing your eyes. "What's that supposed to mean?"

"Nothing," Homura says placidly, returning to cleaning out the shotgun.
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Pffft, Homura 1 Sabrina 0.

Homura has a really pointy sense of humor. I think it's been said before, but if the Trolldoka characterizations we see in official non-canon material is anything to go by, I feel like she and Madoka would probably laugh at the same jokes.
Article:
Madoka: Uh, what's wrong with her? Hitomi's acting just like you today.
Sayaka: What the heck's that supposed to mean?!
Source: Ep 2

Firnagzen said:
Your grin widens. "Hey, if my storage space is hammerspace, then is your shield inventory hammertime?"

Homura blinks very slowly, hands stilling on the dissected innards of the shotgun.

"... no," she says, finally.

"Please?" you say, giving her your very best pleading, puppy dog eyes.

She gives you a Look, one that flenses all the way down to the bone, but you don't relent.

You reach for a bit of Grief, vibrating it so that you don't actually have to speak. "Haaaaaammertiiiiiiime."

"No," Homura says patiently.

You're the first to look away, but mostly because you can't stifle your giggles any more.

"C'moooon, Homura," you say, grinning and flopping forward on the table. You grab the magazine spring from Homura's pile of shotgun innards, wiggling it in her general direction. "It's a good joke."

Homura doesn't dignify you with a response, returning to cleaning the shotgun with a vaguely triumphant air.
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This was perfect. :D

Firnagzen said:
"Does it matter?" Homura asks. Her frown deepens into graven trenches drawn across her brow.

"No. And then again, yes. It doesn't affect what we need to do, why we need to fight it and keep it away from our friends, but it's the one piece of the puzzle you were missing to help explain things, I think," you say. "To explain why Kyuubey does the horrible things it does. And I wanted to get you on the same page as me about these things, you know?"
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I feel like we didn't quite cover this enough - one of the reasons that Homura has trouble convincing Sayaka that Kyubey is evil is that she can't explain why Kyubey acts the way it does, so Sayaka has trouble forming a judgement. I'm not sure we made it completely clear that that's what's going on.
Firnagzen said:
"She's noticed that you care about Madoka a lot," you say. "And- Homura, it's a good thing, because she asked me, and she was fine with it. Because she trusts you."

"She-" Homura's brush skids off the barrel and paints a stripe of oil across the shotgun's stock and half the table. Wide eyes jerk up to stare at you. "Sayaka?"
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Poor Homura.

Descending priority:

[x] Discuss Madoka's psychology the way you did Sayaka's. You should be on the same page as Homura but want to make sure.

[x] Warn Homura that Sayaka has most of the puzzle pieces to put together that Homura's a time traveler.
-[x] You don't foresee it causing any problems - if anything it'll help - but you don't want Homura to be completely blind-sided if it happens.
-[x] What does Homura want you to do if she asks about it? You won't share anything without permission, but if she does figure it out from this, it'd probably be best to make sure she has the story right.

[x] Respecting Homura's fears and concerns, bring up Sayaka's comments about Madoka and Hitomi at the Model UN and suggest asking them to help analyze Tokyo's politics.
-[x] No outside magical girl would even know they exist.
-[x] Madoka would be really helping, with a skill that's uniquely hers, and letting her do it would help her self-esteem.

[x] Hitomi's mother.
-[x] You, uh, asked the Incubator to stop mind-wiping people that your friends care about. So this might be your fault.
-[x] You're meeting with her this weekend to explain more. Does Homura want to participate or add anything to the agenda?
-[x] Propose working with her to recruit a therapist. People like Anri and Akiko are the biggest reasons, but you feel like you want some professional help in general.
--[x] ...Help keeping people happy. She knows what you meant.

[x] Lower-priority topics:
-[x] Ask Homura if she's brought any Grief Seeds with her between loops.
-[x] Offer to turn all of her Grief Seeds into Clear Seeds.
-[x] Ask her if there's anything she wants to know. Avoid the Potentialbomb, but otherwise answer fully and as well as you can.
-[x] Ask what happens when Witches rehatch. Do they drop a grief seed? Are they more powerful? Why isn't farming a single witch done?

[x] Leave timestop. Give Mami a big, spinning, silly hug.
-[x] Cut to voting to decide what to work on and what topics to discuss.

Basically took what other people voted for and cleaned it up. This is almost certainly too much for a single vote. Which things should we cut?

While I'm thinking about it: is there a way for us to queue up lower-priority topics for Sabrina to pull out when there's nothing else particularly important going on?
 
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Aranfan said:
Because why would there be more than one? We see how it starts, and there isn't any place where duplication makes sense.
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Sure there is: it could have "duplicated" long before it even started. We know there was a "guitarist Kyousuke" timeline, so what caused that split?

Given that there's a huge pile of evidence for there being a ton of timelines running in parallel with each other, which existed prior to Homura's timeline jumping, well... why would the timeline where Homura made her wish be unique?
 
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Godwinson said:
Once again, MagiReco is not assumed canon for PMAS.
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Yea, I know. But there's other evidences before this; As Redshirt said, it's just a final nail in the coffin.

I mean, fuck, the fact that Sabrina remembers realities that can't possibly happen, now, as well as other hypothetical universes is in of itself damning.

Aranfan said:
That ... is mind bending. shouldn't there be only one Homura?
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If there's infinite universes, then there must be countless universes where Homura witnessed Madoka's sacrifice, made her wish in grief, and started running across time and space to protect her.

While Madoka's potential in the final timeline is astronomically huge, it's still technically finite. But her transformation sequence in Magireco is uh...interesting.



We see Madoka contract, and then she meets up with countless other contracted Madokas. They all become pink spools of thread (which is previously established to represent her karma), which weave together, and then SHATTER and cut all ties to the world below to reveal Madokami.

Combine this imagery with her statement that she sees "All universes that have ever been born, and every universe that ever will", makes a convincing implication that multiple Madokas across time-space made the same wish and fused their Fuckhuge-but-finite-Potentials into the Infinite potential of Madokami.
 
Ugh. I hate it. Why does PMMM have to be some vast cosmic thing upon which the fate and mechanics of the multiverse hinge? Why can't it just be the personal stories of the Mitikahara group? Of the dynamic between Homura nd Madoka?

The cosmic bullshit just distracts.
 
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