DB_Explorer
Purveyor of alternate realities.
- Location
- San Diego, California
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Redshirt Army
Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
- Thread starter Firnagzen
- Start date
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- Tags
- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Spectral Waltz
Scatterbrained Writer
- Location
- Walking the Endless Corridors
[X] Redshirt Army
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Redshirt Arm versus Blueshirt Core?
What began as a conflict over the transfer of hugs from Sabrina to Mami escalated into a war which has decimated a million hearts. The Core and the Arm have all but exhausted the shippers of a galaxy in their struggle for domination. Both sides now crippled beyond repair, the remnants of the shipper armies continue to battle on ravaged planets, their hatred fueled by over four thousand years of total war. This is a fight to the death. For each side, the only acceptable outcome is the complete elimination of the other.
What began as a conflict over the transfer of hugs from Sabrina to Mami escalated into a war which has decimated a million hearts. The Core and the Arm have all but exhausted the shippers of a galaxy in their struggle for domination. Both sides now crippled beyond repair, the remnants of the shipper armies continue to battle on ravaged planets, their hatred fueled by over four thousand years of total war. This is a fight to the death. For each side, the only acceptable outcome is the complete elimination of the other.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Finished updating the day planner. The calendar should now be up to date, and there's a new Tokyo Politics section ready to be filled out as we get more details.
- Location
- Illinois
Hey uh
So
This council thing -- at the end of the day it's going to amount to a fancy place where people pretend to be civil while what's going on is more or less the same as usual. The pretext is going to be that its to avoid war in the streets, but that isn't quite *accurate* -- with so many people in one place what will have gone on is, you started with gangs of meguca that started making alliances to counteract opponents and that spiralled the hell out of control until you have relatively large blocs that would rip the city in half if they actually fought leading to *this.* The council won't be able to agree on how to enlist aid in the same way cold war USSR and west wouldn't have been able to agree how to enlist niceguy!aliens aid -- the council exists as long as the factions are in balance but if you tip that you could easily see one faction try to eradicate another and I need to point out that if that happens in Tokyo it will be an utter bloodbath.
Let me sketch this again: local gangs with local rivals forge regional alliances with regional rivals forge city-spanning balances of power. Give a local gang the opportunity to exterminate their local rivals and they probably will. Give a local gang the chance to cut ties with their allies by immunizing them against their enemies odds are they will. A clear seed is a *weapon* as well as a food source. Council exists because balance of power politics and regional alliances make this place look like WW1 Europe and at least *somebody* is smart enough to recognize that lighting off that keg stands to kill not just civilians and meguca, but also whoever personally let things light off. There's no armchair rulers here, you declare the war you fight and die in it.
What I am saying is: the correct way to address this is to get every local gang leader in one place and clear one seed for each and every one of them at the same time. Otherwise, bloodbath.
This might have unpredictable effects on the witch population.
... All of this assumes a lack of major outliers.
So
This council thing -- at the end of the day it's going to amount to a fancy place where people pretend to be civil while what's going on is more or less the same as usual. The pretext is going to be that its to avoid war in the streets, but that isn't quite *accurate* -- with so many people in one place what will have gone on is, you started with gangs of meguca that started making alliances to counteract opponents and that spiralled the hell out of control until you have relatively large blocs that would rip the city in half if they actually fought leading to *this.* The council won't be able to agree on how to enlist aid in the same way cold war USSR and west wouldn't have been able to agree how to enlist niceguy!aliens aid -- the council exists as long as the factions are in balance but if you tip that you could easily see one faction try to eradicate another and I need to point out that if that happens in Tokyo it will be an utter bloodbath.
Let me sketch this again: local gangs with local rivals forge regional alliances with regional rivals forge city-spanning balances of power. Give a local gang the opportunity to exterminate their local rivals and they probably will. Give a local gang the chance to cut ties with their allies by immunizing them against their enemies odds are they will. A clear seed is a *weapon* as well as a food source. Council exists because balance of power politics and regional alliances make this place look like WW1 Europe and at least *somebody* is smart enough to recognize that lighting off that keg stands to kill not just civilians and meguca, but also whoever personally let things light off. There's no armchair rulers here, you declare the war you fight and die in it.
What I am saying is: the correct way to address this is to get every local gang leader in one place and clear one seed for each and every one of them at the same time. Otherwise, bloodbath.
This might have unpredictable effects on the witch population.
... All of this assumes a lack of major outliers.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
No, they are teams, because throwing down value-laden terms like "gangs" is the opposite of helpful, especially when it amounts to an argument from ignorance to adopt a moral-superiority stance.
Also, seriously, posting three times in a row, quoting yourself each time? The edit function exists for a reason.
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- Location
- SomeWhereElse
Well yes teams. Who are also gangs. Terminology aside the WW I analogy isn't that far off as far as my (limited) perspective can tell. Course in this case it's like if it was just barely pre WW I and than benevolent aliens showed up with free unlimited energy for everybody and this weird idea about a post scarcity society.
Our problem isn't that they outgun us. Because they don't (figuratively because hax and possibly quite literally because between Mami and Homura I think we have the actual gun market pretty well cornered). I mean it is possible that we could be overwhelmed which is why caution is necessary but eh. Our problem is that we are the alien. Sort of. Meaning it's a question of whether or not they trust our intentions.
And all of them have already been burned once by an alien offering up what seemed like a pretty sweet gig from an alien.
Kyubey's system encourages magical girls to fight each other and as such any magical girl team really is like... a tribe maybe? A tribe of magical girls? Could that be a thing?
Anyways they're like tribes (we probably shouldn't say this to anybody's face) because the current system encourages it and because human psychology is wired to be social and to work in relatively small groups.
Any single magical girl group probably has a pretty comfortable amount of members (everyone knows everybody else's name) they all have something fairly in common (aka all are magical girls) and tribes tend to have a strong sense of unity within the group even if relationships can fray. Depending on the tribe and the amount of resources available to it the people can either be surprisingly altruistic or really territorial.
Add in the fact that the current system is pretty much a zero-sum game and you get what's almost a pitch perfect model of realistic conflict theory (also known as if there's limited resources groups will fight over them). It's possible that some groups are fairly good with each other and it's also possible that those same groups hate each others guts.
And now we're coming in and literally turning that on its head. The game is no longer zero sum and literally nobody knows how to react to this mysterious rando who is basically telling everyone they have the solution to pretty much all their immediate problems. For free. Anybody sane would be suspicious at least.
I'm not entirely sure where I was going with that. Anyways meeting all the leaders at the same time is the best idea. No need to hand over unlimited power to just one group if that group is just going to turn around and abuse it. Everyone should get a clear seed of course. But carefully.
Our problem isn't that they outgun us. Because they don't (figuratively because hax and possibly quite literally because between Mami and Homura I think we have the actual gun market pretty well cornered). I mean it is possible that we could be overwhelmed which is why caution is necessary but eh. Our problem is that we are the alien. Sort of. Meaning it's a question of whether or not they trust our intentions.
And all of them have already been burned once by an alien offering up what seemed like a pretty sweet gig from an alien.
Kyubey's system encourages magical girls to fight each other and as such any magical girl team really is like... a tribe maybe? A tribe of magical girls? Could that be a thing?
Anyways they're like tribes (we probably shouldn't say this to anybody's face) because the current system encourages it and because human psychology is wired to be social and to work in relatively small groups.
Any single magical girl group probably has a pretty comfortable amount of members (everyone knows everybody else's name) they all have something fairly in common (aka all are magical girls) and tribes tend to have a strong sense of unity within the group even if relationships can fray. Depending on the tribe and the amount of resources available to it the people can either be surprisingly altruistic or really territorial.
Add in the fact that the current system is pretty much a zero-sum game and you get what's almost a pitch perfect model of realistic conflict theory (also known as if there's limited resources groups will fight over them). It's possible that some groups are fairly good with each other and it's also possible that those same groups hate each others guts.
And now we're coming in and literally turning that on its head. The game is no longer zero sum and literally nobody knows how to react to this mysterious rando who is basically telling everyone they have the solution to pretty much all their immediate problems. For free. Anybody sane would be suspicious at least.
I'm not entirely sure where I was going with that. Anyways meeting all the leaders at the same time is the best idea. No need to hand over unlimited power to just one group if that group is just going to turn around and abuse it. Everyone should get a clear seed of course. But carefully.
- Location
- USA, Midworld world line
[X] Redshirt Army
The minimum conditions are present, so this is fine.
Or for the full effect,
The Tokyo Council might have securitized Witches? The fighting and the subsequent cleansing are unbundled as assets that trade alongside metaphysical derivatives? And that would make traders the central figures in a Magical Girl financial system? lol, Kyuubey would probably suggest such a society.
The minimum conditions are present, so this is fine.
Much as if we were measuring the Shinbo Constant of the Universe by observation. SCIENCE!
Truth makes great comedy! OTOH, the Politics quotient of the door-to-door approach isn't zero....
Is there a database skin more like this?
Or for the full effect,
/pic404768.jpg)
missing only the word "pal," hmmmm...
The Tokyo Council might have securitized Witches? The fighting and the subsequent cleansing are unbundled as assets that trade alongside metaphysical derivatives? And that would make traders the central figures in a Magical Girl financial system? lol, Kyuubey would probably suggest such a society.
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
We kinda completely lack knowledge of how this council works Kai. It could well have been set up by a homu or mumi tier girl who really loved democracy, and lasted long enough for the institution she built to stick.
We should hold off any conclusions until we know more about the facts on the ground.
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Redshirt Army
- Location
- Illinois
This.
I was, uh...
I went to sleep before posting this, lol
The arguments are sound, the terminology and message less so.
At the end if the day, all of these girls are victims.
You're missing the point.
The origin of the institution doesn't matter. What matters are its constituent parts.
We saw some of this politics in Sendai where a conflict between a couple of groups turned into a war as allies and enemies of enemies grouped into the conflict.
Think about what you get if you abut nine Sendais. I would literally take bets at odds that this place's politics are what I've called.
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- Location
- 👁👄👁
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Hers
[X] Redshirt Army
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
- Location
- Not the asylum anymore
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This is true. Now, we're already giving Mom hugs, but I suspect any therapist that could tackle Homura's issues would have to be world class. Merely getting her to accept help is a minor miracle.
Of course, most people we know need therapy and hugs. Sabrina herself could probably use it.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
really all magical girls need therapy by definition, simply given how and why the incubator selects them. really I'd go so far as to say that mom was at least in part justified in what she did at the end of rebellion even if it wasn't the right thing to do and resulted in her betraying madokami
- Location
- SomeWhereElse
[X] Redshirt Army
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
I've been thinking on a theory on how witching-out occurs, now this is again a theory. not a hypothesis since since I came up with it we have learned a few things that seem to support the idea but again I could be completely off
when ones soul gem becomes fully corrupted a few things happen,
first off we know that ones own emotions are deeply tied to the soul gems state, hence grief spiraling. so it stands to reason that once it turns completely black, if we could talk to them at that point then they would be in a worse state than any human mind could possibly be, given that good old sayaka was able to flat out murder people and go full slasher at the end of her grief spiral, and a black out would leave you in an even worse spot even if you didn't witch out. we also know that magic is tied to emotions, even hugely hinted as being generated from emotions. so it is likely that blacking out isn't the end of a grief spiral. it is simply the event horizon at which it continues at an unstoppable rate, hence why a grief seed is filled with hundreds time more grief than a soul gem could ever hold
so it stands to reason that once you black out fully your magic itself is fully warped by it, and starts cannibalizing you for lack of a better term. tearing itself and your soul apart and collapsing into a singularity of despair before exploding back out like a supernova, everting a twisted mental landscape as a labyrinth using the magical girls 4 space, using the soul gem, now a grief seed, as the focus point as it used to but now creating a more physical link
again this is simply a theory I've been working on and I could be 100% wrong about all of this
when ones soul gem becomes fully corrupted a few things happen,
first off we know that ones own emotions are deeply tied to the soul gems state, hence grief spiraling. so it stands to reason that once it turns completely black, if we could talk to them at that point then they would be in a worse state than any human mind could possibly be, given that good old sayaka was able to flat out murder people and go full slasher at the end of her grief spiral, and a black out would leave you in an even worse spot even if you didn't witch out. we also know that magic is tied to emotions, even hugely hinted as being generated from emotions. so it is likely that blacking out isn't the end of a grief spiral. it is simply the event horizon at which it continues at an unstoppable rate, hence why a grief seed is filled with hundreds time more grief than a soul gem could ever hold
so it stands to reason that once you black out fully your magic itself is fully warped by it, and starts cannibalizing you for lack of a better term. tearing itself and your soul apart and collapsing into a singularity of despair before exploding back out like a supernova, everting a twisted mental landscape as a labyrinth using the magical girls 4 space, using the soul gem, now a grief seed, as the focus point as it used to but now creating a more physical link
again this is simply a theory I've been working on and I could be 100% wrong about all of this
- Location
- SomeWhereElse
...So. Lets say this theory is true. Grief begets more grief in a black hole theory sort of way. I can't say whether it is or not but whatever.
What I can theorize about is what happens to a grief seed like this after Kyubey gets a hold of it.
I'm not entirely sure if Kyubey is capable of taking grief out of soul gems. But let's say he is because he has to get at that sweet magic power somehow.
Kyubey doesn't want his grief seeds to hatch into witches (we know this is possible) because that would be inconvenient so he continually cleanses them of grief so the seed is always just after the cusp of that event horizon thing. Producing power in misery. This makes sense partly because it would continuously produce power - meaning any one grief seed has theoretically infinite power but only over an infinite amount of time - the output is capped.
So Kyubey is trying to get as many of those souls as possible so his power output outmatches that of the heat death of the universe. All at the low low cost of countless magical girl souls constantly being brought up and down through a roller coaster of despair suffering for all of eternity so that the universe can continue. There is no escape through death because once the incubators have you they have you forever.
It would almost be preferable that the incubator destroyed the grief seed upon consumption. At least that way there would be some escape.
This also sort of works in the context of Kyubey's quota. Instead of being a one and done massive power boost Madoka's soul would be a giant generator staving off heat death forever instead of just a couple million years.
What I can theorize about is what happens to a grief seed like this after Kyubey gets a hold of it.
I'm not entirely sure if Kyubey is capable of taking grief out of soul gems. But let's say he is because he has to get at that sweet magic power somehow.
Kyubey doesn't want his grief seeds to hatch into witches (we know this is possible) because that would be inconvenient so he continually cleanses them of grief so the seed is always just after the cusp of that event horizon thing. Producing power in misery. This makes sense partly because it would continuously produce power - meaning any one grief seed has theoretically infinite power but only over an infinite amount of time - the output is capped.
So Kyubey is trying to get as many of those souls as possible so his power output outmatches that of the heat death of the universe. All at the low low cost of countless magical girl souls constantly being brought up and down through a roller coaster of despair suffering for all of eternity so that the universe can continue. There is no escape through death because once the incubators have you they have you forever.
It would almost be preferable that the incubator destroyed the grief seed upon consumption. At least that way there would be some escape.
This also sort of works in the context of Kyubey's quota. Instead of being a one and done massive power boost Madoka's soul would be a giant generator staving off heat death forever instead of just a couple million years.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
that is honestly worlds more terrifying a possibility than anything else I could possibly think of.
and considering hoe much kyubey complained about sabrina just giving
him the grief instead of the seed itself it becomes a not unreasonable possibility. which makes the comparison to a deal with devil even more accurate
spending all of eternity being tortured by the incubators to create a free energy device hot damn
I always thought that the incubators somehow siphoned energy off of the witching out itself due to the comment that they were just going to leave Gretchen alone and let her destroy the planet because they already got their 'quota' from her but knowing them they would likely try to squeeze every ounce out of it
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Except that institutions do matter. Maybe Tokyo is an unstable powder keg. But it is equally plausible that Tokyo is relatively unified and stable.
We don't have the information to say. Maybe you are correct, but I don't think we should make any concrete plans about how to help Tokyo until after we know what the actual situation is there.
- Location
- Somewhere up the tree
its all cool, take care of yourself man