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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Sayaka copying her powers and use it easily? Ha more higher chance of her screwing up and killing herself or others since indication that Oriko's vision could be the result of us gemming or killing Rionna and letting Sayaka copy it or go Mami with her light and dark mindset.

[X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.

Where did it say she want's immortality?

I'm glad things are easing up considering the moral outrage, as for taking mundane human apart from accidents due to learning her powers, there's plenty of humans committed worst crimes and got away with it also they could have used abused magical girls considering their poor state of mind after lifetime of abuse.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
Hmmm. @Onmur , what do you think of shuffling the sections around to this order?

[ ] Take a moment to calm down.
-[ ] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.

[ ] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but what she told you sounds horrifying.
-[ ] Actually do hear her out, if she explains.

[ ] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
-[ ] But you can't accept enslaving people's Souls. That can't continue. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
--[ ] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.

[ ] Explain your work and hopes to improve things. Regardless of how necessary some of her actions might have been, you want to build a better world then that.
--[ ] You'll work to provide jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary so that the trapped souls can be released.
--[ ] Talk about your longer term goals: Standards, justice, society. Free cleansing, Clear Seeds, seed alternatives. Someday, maybe even De-Witching.

[ ] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
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I'm not sure, the point of explaining our work first, is so we show we have a point, and give Riona a reason to listen.

I think it sends the ground for the discussion to follow after it.

If we tell her her actions are horrible, and that she should stop and work with us instead, without giving her motives why she should, first (and she's shown impatience and have been rather unsubtly told us to stop wasting her time), will she actually hear us out?
 
BTW, it might be just her verbal tic, but this is what I found 'yerra' means:

Similar to "ara", the word "yerra" indicates that you really couldn't give a toss about something:
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Of Irish origin, coming from the Kerry/Cork region, predominantly used in order to signify one's complete lack of interest in any given topic.
Akin to what one may describe as a "fuck it" attitude.
Can also be used as a precursor to an aggressive reply when asked a question
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Definition of yerra
—used as a mild oath
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Used here:
Firnagzen said:
"Yerra, sure, protective o' your girl," Rionna says. "So tell me."
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Firnagzen said:
Rionna sighs, taking another long pull from her flask. "Yerra, y' can't help me at all, can you? Y' can't exactly give me your magic, I doubt you're willing to give me your Soul, and I wager I'd have a fight on m' hands if I tried to take it."
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Verbal tic or telling us to get the fuck on with it? :thonk:
 
[Q] Hug Riona
-[Q] Ask if she would like to know about our Lady and Savior Madokami.

: P
 
Raiseth said:
So you don't even consider the possibility she might be completely disinterested in our relationship with Mami, huh?
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Actually... considering her likely situation, the fallout thereof, and how it has tinted her view on social relationships. SHe might not even care less she might be in negative cares and either be uncomfortable over seeing it or actively dislike it.

Or, you know, she wants to get to the point and not watch cuddles.
 
Raiseth said:
So you don't even consider the possibility she might be completely disinterested in our relationship with Mami, huh?
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She wants the cleansing.

DB_Explorer said:
Actually... considering her likely situation, the fallout thereof, and how it has tinted her view on social relationships. SHe might not even care less she might be in negative cares and either be uncomfortable over seeing it or actively dislike it.

Or, you know, she wants to get to the point and not watch cuddles.
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Firnagzen said:
"Sabrina?" Mami murmurs.

"Yes, Mami?" you ask, smiling at her.

"Is... is this a conversation I should be in?" she asks, hesitantly.

Riona's eyes snap from the construct to you.

"I..." you trail off, grimacing. The answer is yes. She should be, by all rights. But she's chosen not to know.

"It's alright," Mami says, swallowing. "I understand. I... I'll practice my enchantment, while I wait for you?"

"Alright," you echo. "If you're sure?"

"I am," Mami says, giving you a wan smile. You kiss her gently on the cheek and pull her into a hug, savouring the contact before straightening. "I won't be going anywhere, alright? Just-"

"Ahem," Riona says.

You ignore her.
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One of the few people to actually speak up about this.
 
Onmur said:
One of the few people to actually speak up about this.
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I have a theory that Megucas have a pecking order, and thus only gush over their "sempai", i.e. someone who holds comparatively more land than she does.
Considering the harsh reality of post-industrial Meguca city-states, holding a city by yourself is viewed as the highest realistically attainable position.
So Baroness Mami Tomoe translates into Empress Mami Tomoe, Hallowed Be Her Name.
But. Riona also holds a city by herself. She's an equal in rank to Mami Tomoe, and thus immune to her position of authority. So she doesn't gush over her and doesn't see anything particularly juicy about her relationship with a lowly commoner Sabrina Vee.

... If only I analyzed my Crusader Kings 2 worldstates so well.
Eh. An unattainable dream.
 
Realized something. The "everyone deserves a chance to become better than what they were before". What do you think our odds our of convincing Rionna when she throws their crimes in our faces? Maybe some of them should just be released into the afterlife?
 
Conjured Blade said:
Realized something. The "everyone deserves a chance to become better than what they were before". What do you think our odds our of convincing Rionna when she throws their crimes in our faces? Maybe some of them should just be released into the afterlife?
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I don't doubt it. I'm in the minority of people that aren't bothered by Riona's conduct, provided her ghosts are not in some sort of torture agony.
 
I know this is gonna sound weird for Sabrina, but some people can't be redeemed because ultimately... You have to want to be better. There's nothing wrong with believing in goodness, but some people are just too stubborn or lazy to improve themselves of their own initiative. I should clarify I don't believe any act can make you irredeemable, and instead it is one's attitude that does.

Ultimately, Riona would be the best judge of who could be redeemed, what with her powers. Really, I think it would be better if Sabrina didn't stress "free the souls" so much, again because she barely knows what is going on. It still feels a bit too judgey and hard demanding, though I also think Onmur's vote is about the best option.

I should clarify a little... I perfectly agree with asking Riona to stop. She clearly doesn't need anymore and she's about to get a Clear Seed. Sayaka in Homura's Revenge was spawning giant floating swords without care of grief accumulation, so Puella seem to be seriously holding back. So with a Clear Seed constantly on hand Riona wouldn't have to hold back.

In fact, that line of reasoning is a decent reason Sabrina can provide for why Riona can afford to release some of her shades. Though ultimately, making the cleansing a trade for them shouldn't be an unshakable demand. Some of the souls will likely require serious effort to redeem, and we don't know if Riona can safely use her base ability combat-wise. Soul manipulation has so many ways it can go wrong.

All in all, I'm really just saying Sabrina should acknowledge some of those souls are going to be problematic and thus there's no rush to free them. She also doesn't have the authority or knowledge to really make hard demands- Yes she has something Riona wants and Riona could verify with Nadia her morality, but I honestly think "no more souls and evaluate who to free" is the best Sabrina can insist on. Because again, we don't know who the shades are or who would be easiest to redeem- Riona would know however, at least more than us.
 
I thought commiserating with her might be helpful. This is based on the assumption she drinks because she knows she's fucked up, that she is basically Yuuko Kozuki from Luv and Hate on Spacebattles(Break Muv Luv Alternative with the power of ACUs)

[X] Take a moment to calm down.
-[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.

-[X] As disgusted as you are, you understand some of her actions might have been necessary. You want to make her brand of justice no longer necessary.
-[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
--[X] This is a clear seed. A frugal magical girl could make one last for at least a century. We both know there's something, or someone, in there though.
-[x] Even with the reprieve of clearing, that's confinement in a tank that gets drained instead of a continuous drown. If I told somebody I knew about witches, I would ask them if they'd prefer obliteration if it happened to them because I have tasted what they experience.

[X] You want to work with her. To go beyond this. Do something unambiguously good instead of this half-measure. Dewitchifcation. Replicating your power. Nationbuilding. Benign justice systems. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
-[X]Slavery and Eternal Punishment have no place in the new order, however. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
--[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
--[X] You arent sure what precisely she came here for. Heres what you're willing to offer. A clear seed if you stop taking souls. Nobody deserves an eternity in Kyubey's back assuming grief seeds aren't destroyed.. Free cleansing for life if you join me and we can evaluate people for releasing and/or rebodiment. We're going to need a means of creating bodies anyway if witchification is reversible after all.
 
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Thinking back on it, one of the main reasons I don't like the idea of attacking Riona during this conversation (be it right now or two updates later after she laughs in Sabrina's face), is because of the negative political consequences of such an action.

Like it or not, we're essentially a polity unto ourselves. Our group of friends rules Mitakihara, and other meguca in the city are forced to live by our rules or face potentially serious consequences. We've recently signed a defensive pact with the Fukushima group (and considering recent events I worry that we'll destroy that in a fit of rage after skeletons from Yuki's closet start coming out). We're accepting refugees. Of course, it's a very small and simple polity, but on the meguca scale, we wield very considerable power and influence. You better believe our immediate neighbours aren't the only ones paying close attention to our actions.

This means that any major action needs to take our projected image and reputation into account. Attacking and gemming other girls just because we think they're evil is not acceptable. Think about how this would look from an outsider's perspective. A powerful meguca travelled half the world to talk to us, behaved herself reasonably well and certainly has neither attacked nor threatened us, nor caused any trouble in our domain, and we attacked her with the intent of detaining her indefinitely just because we didn't like some of her past actions. It's a very bad look and will close many doors before us in the future.

You can bet that most magical girls in positions of authority have done things they regret. Hell, we've threatened to witch out Kirika. Like I said earlier, I'm absolutely sure the Fukushima girls are responsible for more deaths than just the ones caused by the Sendai fight. I wouldn't be surprised if the Tokyo Council stood on a pile of shattered soul gems. These girls will look at the Riona casus and decide that they either can't afford to interact with Sabrina for fear of being gemmed, or that they need to deceive her to avoid that, perhaps even point her at their enemies. And so the only path towards our "better" meguca society will be that of violent subjugation and tyranny. I don't think any of us want that.

We've worked hard for our good reputation. We've carefully tried to mediate conflicts and facilitate negotiation, only resorting to violence when our hand was forced. We doggedly tried to make friends and allies, even in situations where it wasn't the easiest or most convenient path. Let's not throw all this work away recklessly. It has tremendous value and will save many meguca in the future, if properly maintained.

That is, of course, not to say that we shouldn't kill or gem Riona, depending on the contents of the next few updates. But we should absolutely not do it here and now unless she attacks first. I don't think it's a big problem for us to kill her from timestop at any later point in time, if we have the stomach for it.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
@Onmur

Maybe explicitly add "actually hear her out if she explains" to the end of the first section?

I'm concerned that with the level of vitriol in thread that we might say we'll hear her out... and then just continue with the rest of the vote.
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OK... My secret plot to roll over Riona is destroyed.

I hope you're very happy with yourself, Red.

I always knew you would be the one to betray me, in the end.

I knew it because nobody would ever expect treason from a redshirt. So it become obvious, a redshirt would be the one to commit treason.

It was only logical.

[] Take a moment to calm down.
-[] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.

[] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
-[] Hear her out if she explains.
-[] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're making progress towards creating a better world than that.
-[] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
--[] Standards, justice, society.
--[] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
--[] De-Witching.

[] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
-[] But you can't accept what she's claimed. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
--[] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
--[] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.

[] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
-[] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
 
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Onmur said:
OK... My secret plot to roll over Riona is destroyed.

I hope you're very happy with yourself, Red.

I always knew you would be the one to betray me, in the end.

I knew it because nobody would ever expect treason from a redshirt. So it become obvious, a redshirt would be the one to commit treason.

It was only logical.

[X] Take a moment to calm down.
-[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.

[X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
-[X] Hear her out if she explains.
-[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're making progress towards creating a better world than that.
-[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
--[X] Standards, justice, society.
--[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
--[X] De-Witching.

[X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
-[X] But you can't accept what she's claimed. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
--[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
--[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.

[X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
-[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
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"Good. Good. Let the hate flow through you. You must strike him down, to save your friends"
 
[X] Onmur

Stealing souls is evil, so the answer is to steal her soul? Or flat out murder her?

I don't understand the hypocritical judgementalism!
Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Jul 30, 2018 at 6:49 PM, finished with 142169 posts and 61 votes.
  • [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] Hear her out if she explains.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're making progress towards creating a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claimed. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
    [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
    [X] Use grief to generate quiet sound in Mami's ear.
    -[X] "Timestop, now!"
    [X] Rionna's soul gem is a ring on her finger right now. Gem her by cutting her hand off and obliterating her body.
    -[x] Keep soul gem in privacy sphere, to isolate from enslaved souls.
    -[x] Assume she can operate while gemmed. Avoid touching the gem or hand with grief so she can't take your soul through it or get pulled into time stop.
    -[x] Be prepared for either time stop or a countermeasure.
    [x] Redshirt Army
    [x] Onmar
    [X] continue discussion.
    -[X] artificial Grief Seeds
    -[X] spreading cleansing and our ability to everyone.
    [X] Will she stay with us a while?
    [x] Communicate to Mami via grief: potential foe, high threat, move away, timestop on signal. Arrange some sort of simple, clear and fast signal using grief.
    [x] Calmly ask what that makes her. How many people has she done this to, and under what circumstances. We'll listen.
    [x] She's keeping people as slaves. We wanted to work with her, so so much. We want to make a world where the things she's seen don't happen to anyone.
    [x] What's done is done, but she can stop now if she chooses to. Could she let the shades go?
    [x] Make her an offer- Clear Seeds, money, whatever. Bluntly state we want to help her get what she wants that doesn't involve harming others. Will she stop?
    [x] If she tries to leave the bubble or otherwise stop talking without agreeing to let the souls she's enslaved go:
    -[x] If possible, signal for timestop and bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    --[x] Otherwise, bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're building a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claiming. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    -[X] As disgusted as you are, you understand some of her actions might have been necessary. You want to make her brand of justice no longer necessary.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] This is a clear seed. A frugal magical girl could make one last for at least a century. We both know there's something, or someone, in there though.
    -[x] Even with the reprieve of clearing, that's confinement in a tank that gets drained instead of a continuous drown. If I told somebody I knew about witches, I would ask them if they'd prefer obliteration if it happened to them because I have tasted what they experience.
    [X] You want to work with her. To go beyond this. Do something unambiguously good instead of this half-measure. Dewitchifcation. Replicating your power. Nationbuilding. Benign justice systems. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X]Slavery and Eternal Punishment have no place in the new order, however. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] You arent sure what precisely she came here for. Heres what you're willing to offer. A clear seed if you stop taking souls. Nobody deserves an eternity in Kyubey's back assuming grief seeds aren't destroyed.. Free cleansing for life if you join me and we can evaluate people for releasing and/or rebodiment. We're going to need a means of creating bodies anyway if witchification is reversible after all.
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Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Jul 30, 2018 at 10:18 PM, finished with 142187 posts and 64 votes.
  • [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] Hear her out if she explains.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're making progress towards creating a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claimed. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
    [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    -[X] As disgusted as you are, you understand some of her actions might have been necessary. You want to make her brand of justice no longer necessary.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] This is a clear seed. A frugal magical girl could make one last for at least a century. We both know there's something, or someone, in there though.
    -[x] Even with the reprieve of clearing, that's confinement in a tank that gets drained instead of a continuous drown. If I told somebody I knew about witches, I would ask them if they'd prefer obliteration if it happened to them because I have tasted what they experience.
    [X] You want to work with her. To go beyond this. Do something unambiguously good instead of this half-measure. Dewitchifcation. Replicating your power. Nationbuilding. Benign justice systems. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken, or if this is something for the research docket because slavery and eternal punishment have no place in the new order.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] You arent sure what precisely she came here for. Heres what you're willing to offer. A clear seed if you stop taking souls. Nobody deserves an eternity in Kyubey's back assuming grief seeds aren't destroyed.. Free cleansing for life if you join me and we can evaluate people for releasing and/or rebodiment. We're going to need a means of creating bodies anyway if witchification is reversible after all.
    [X] Use grief to generate quiet sound in Mami's ear.
    -[X] "Timestop, now!"
    [X] Rionna's soul gem is a ring on her finger right now. Gem her by cutting her hand off and obliterating her body.
    -[x] Keep soul gem in privacy sphere, to isolate from enslaved souls.
    -[x] Assume she can operate while gemmed. Avoid touching the gem or hand with grief so she can't take your soul through it or get pulled into time stop.
    -[x] Be prepared for either time stop or a countermeasure.
    [x] Redshirt Army
    [x] Onmar
    [X] continue discussion.
    -[X] artificial Grief Seeds
    -[X] spreading cleansing and our ability to everyone.
    [X] Will she stay with us a while?
    [x] Communicate to Mami via grief: potential foe, high threat, move away, timestop on signal. Arrange some sort of simple, clear and fast signal using grief.
    [x] Calmly ask what that makes her. How many people has she done this to, and under what circumstances. We'll listen.
    [x] She's keeping people as slaves. We wanted to work with her, so so much. We want to make a world where the things she's seen don't happen to anyone.
    [x] What's done is done, but she can stop now if she chooses to. Could she let the shades go?
    [x] Make her an offer- Clear Seeds, money, whatever. Bluntly state we want to help her get what she wants that doesn't involve harming others. Will she stop?
    [x] If she tries to leave the bubble or otherwise stop talking without agreeing to let the souls she's enslaved go:
    -[x] If possible, signal for timestop and bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    --[x] Otherwise, bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're building a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claiming. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
Click to expand...
 
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Tally incoming for context.

Refining my vote for the next tally(hopefully this gets picked up).

[x] Take a moment to calm down.
-[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
-[X] As disgusted as you are, you understand some of her actions might have been necessary. You want to make her brand of justice no longer necessary.
-[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
--[X] This is a clear seed. A frugal magical girl could make one last for at least a century. We both know there's something, or someone, in there though.
-[x] Even with the reprieve of clearing, that's confinement in a tank that gets drained instead of a continuous drown. If I told somebody I knew about witches, I would ask them if they'd prefer obliteration if it happened to them because I have tasted what they experience.
[X] You want to work with her. To go beyond this. Do something unambiguously good instead of this half-measure. Dewitchifcation. Replicating your power. Nationbuilding. Benign justice systems. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
-[X] Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken, or if this is something for the research docket because slavery and eternal punishment have no place in the new order.
--[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
--[X] You arent sure what precisely she came here for. Heres what you're willing to offer. A clear seed if you stop taking souls. Nobody deserves an eternity in Kyubey's back assuming grief seeds aren't destroyed.. Free cleansing for life if you join me and we can evaluate people for releasing and/or rebodiment. We're going to need a means of creating bodies anyway if witchification is reversible after all.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Jul 30, 2018 at 6:54 PM, finished with 142171 posts and 61 votes.
  • [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] Hear her out if she explains.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're making progress towards creating a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claimed. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
    [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
    [X] Use grief to generate quiet sound in Mami's ear.
    -[X] "Timestop, now!"
    [X] Rionna's soul gem is a ring on her finger right now. Gem her by cutting her hand off and obliterating her body.
    -[x] Keep soul gem in privacy sphere, to isolate from enslaved souls.
    -[x] Assume she can operate while gemmed. Avoid touching the gem or hand with grief so she can't take your soul through it or get pulled into time stop.
    -[x] Be prepared for either time stop or a countermeasure.
    [x] Redshirt Army
    [x] Onmar
    [X] continue discussion.
    -[X] artificial Grief Seeds
    -[X] spreading cleansing and our ability to everyone.
    [X] Will she stay with us a while?
    [x] Communicate to Mami via grief: potential foe, high threat, move away, timestop on signal. Arrange some sort of simple, clear and fast signal using grief.
    [x] Calmly ask what that makes her. How many people has she done this to, and under what circumstances. We'll listen.
    [x] She's keeping people as slaves. We wanted to work with her, so so much. We want to make a world where the things she's seen don't happen to anyone.
    [x] What's done is done, but she can stop now if she chooses to. Could she let the shades go?
    [x] Make her an offer- Clear Seeds, money, whatever. Bluntly state we want to help her get what she wants that doesn't involve harming others. Will she stop?
    [x] If she tries to leave the bubble or otherwise stop talking without agreeing to let the souls she's enslaved go:
    -[x] If possible, signal for timestop and bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    --[x] Otherwise, bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're building a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claiming. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    -[X] As disgusted as you are, you understand some of her actions might have been necessary. You want to make her brand of justice no longer necessary.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] This is a clear seed. A frugal magical girl could make one last for at least a century. We both know there's something, or someone, in there though.
    -[x] Even with the reprieve of clearing, that's confinement in a tank that gets drained instead of a continuous drown. If I told somebody I knew about witches, I would ask them if they'd prefer obliteration if it happened to them because I have tasted what they experience.
    [X] You want to work with her. To go beyond this. Do something unambiguously good instead of this half-measure. Dewitchifcation. Replicating your power. Nationbuilding. Benign justice systems. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X]Slavery and Eternal Punishment have no place in the new order, however. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] You arent sure what precisely she came here for. Heres what you're willing to offer. A clear seed if you stop taking souls. Nobody deserves an eternity in Kyubey's back assuming grief seeds aren't destroyed.. Free cleansing for life if you join me and we can evaluate people for releasing and/or rebodiment. We're going to need a means of creating bodies anyway if witchification is reversible after all.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Thats a vote i can actually get behind

[X] Conjured Blade
Adhoc vote count started by kinigget on Jul 30, 2018 at 7:46 PM, finished with 142174 posts and 62 votes.
  • [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] Hear her out if she explains.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're making progress towards creating a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claimed. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
    [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
    [X] Use grief to generate quiet sound in Mami's ear.
    -[X] "Timestop, now!"
    [X] Rionna's soul gem is a ring on her finger right now. Gem her by cutting her hand off and obliterating her body.
    -[x] Keep soul gem in privacy sphere, to isolate from enslaved souls.
    -[x] Assume she can operate while gemmed. Avoid touching the gem or hand with grief so she can't take your soul through it or get pulled into time stop.
    -[x] Be prepared for either time stop or a countermeasure.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    -[X] As disgusted as you are, you understand some of her actions might have been necessary. You want to make her brand of justice no longer necessary.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] This is a clear seed. A frugal magical girl could make one last for at least a century. We both know there's something, or someone, in there though.
    -[x] Even with the reprieve of clearing, that's confinement in a tank that gets drained instead of a continuous drown. If I told somebody I knew about witches, I would ask them if they'd prefer obliteration if it happened to them because I have tasted what they experience.
    [X] You want to work with her. To go beyond this. Do something unambiguously good instead of this half-measure. Dewitchifcation. Replicating your power. Nationbuilding. Benign justice systems. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken, or if this is something for the research docket because slavery and eternal punishment have no place in the new order.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] You arent sure what precisely she came here for. Heres what you're willing to offer. A clear seed if you stop taking souls. Nobody deserves an eternity in Kyubey's back assuming grief seeds aren't destroyed.. Free cleansing for life if you join me and we can evaluate people for releasing and/or rebodiment. We're going to need a means of creating bodies anyway if witchification is reversible after all.
    [x] Redshirt Army
    [x] Onmar
    [X] continue discussion.
    -[X] artificial Grief Seeds
    -[X] spreading cleansing and our ability to everyone.
    [X] Will she stay with us a while?
    [x] Communicate to Mami via grief: potential foe, high threat, move away, timestop on signal. Arrange some sort of simple, clear and fast signal using grief.
    [x] Calmly ask what that makes her. How many people has she done this to, and under what circumstances. We'll listen.
    [x] She's keeping people as slaves. We wanted to work with her, so so much. We want to make a world where the things she's seen don't happen to anyone.
    [x] What's done is done, but she can stop now if she chooses to. Could she let the shades go?
    [x] Make her an offer- Clear Seeds, money, whatever. Bluntly state we want to help her get what she wants that doesn't involve harming others. Will she stop?
    [x] If she tries to leave the bubble or otherwise stop talking without agreeing to let the souls she's enslaved go:
    -[x] If possible, signal for timestop and bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    --[x] Otherwise, bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're building a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claiming. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
Click to expand...
 
AuraTwilight said:
However, she uses her power on non-meguca. There's absolutely NO WAY IN HELL to justify that. Not even self-defense or helping people.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I've seen this argument pop up before. Non-Meguca can be serial killers, rapists, yakuza bosses who sell underage girls into sexual slavery, unethical scientists who create chemical weapons for tyrannical regimes to use on innocent people.

I am against keeping such people in perpetual slavery, but as has been pointed out, Rionna's power only allows a particular method for dealing with people such as described.

Is every soul she enslaved as bad as the examples I gave? I actually don't know, and you don't know either. It is better to err on the side of assuming better of her however, because we can't undo the harm that attacking and gemming her would cause, but if she proves to be in the wrong, we could still attack and attempt to gem her later.

Though I am doubtful that her gem can actually be contained. We can control our own grief after all, so why would we assume she doesn't have control over her own soul?
 
Let's see if my current vote got picked up I guess. Tally incoming.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Jul 30, 2018 at 8:52 PM, finished with 142176 posts and 62 votes.
  • [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] Hear her out if she explains.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're making progress towards creating a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claimed. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
    [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
    [X] Use grief to generate quiet sound in Mami's ear.
    -[X] "Timestop, now!"
    [X] Rionna's soul gem is a ring on her finger right now. Gem her by cutting her hand off and obliterating her body.
    -[x] Keep soul gem in privacy sphere, to isolate from enslaved souls.
    -[x] Assume she can operate while gemmed. Avoid touching the gem or hand with grief so she can't take your soul through it or get pulled into time stop.
    -[x] Be prepared for either time stop or a countermeasure.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    -[X] As disgusted as you are, you understand some of her actions might have been necessary. You want to make her brand of justice no longer necessary.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] This is a clear seed. A frugal magical girl could make one last for at least a century. We both know there's something, or someone, in there though.
    -[x] Even with the reprieve of clearing, that's confinement in a tank that gets drained instead of a continuous drown. If I told somebody I knew about witches, I would ask them if they'd prefer obliteration if it happened to them because I have tasted what they experience.
    [X] You want to work with her. To go beyond this. Do something unambiguously good instead of this half-measure. Dewitchifcation. Replicating your power. Nationbuilding. Benign justice systems. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken, or if this is something for the research docket because slavery and eternal punishment have no place in the new order.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] You arent sure what precisely she came here for. Heres what you're willing to offer. A clear seed if you stop taking souls. Nobody deserves an eternity in Kyubey's back assuming grief seeds aren't destroyed.. Free cleansing for life if you join me and we can evaluate people for releasing and/or rebodiment. We're going to need a means of creating bodies anyway if witchification is reversible after all.
    [x] Redshirt Army
    [x] Onmar
    [X] continue discussion.
    -[X] artificial Grief Seeds
    -[X] spreading cleansing and our ability to everyone.
    [X] Will she stay with us a while?
    [x] Communicate to Mami via grief: potential foe, high threat, move away, timestop on signal. Arrange some sort of simple, clear and fast signal using grief.
    [x] Calmly ask what that makes her. How many people has she done this to, and under what circumstances. We'll listen.
    [x] She's keeping people as slaves. We wanted to work with her, so so much. We want to make a world where the things she's seen don't happen to anyone.
    [x] What's done is done, but she can stop now if she chooses to. Could she let the shades go?
    [x] Make her an offer- Clear Seeds, money, whatever. Bluntly state we want to help her get what she wants that doesn't involve harming others. Will she stop?
    [x] If she tries to leave the bubble or otherwise stop talking without agreeing to let the souls she's enslaved go:
    -[x] If possible, signal for timestop and bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    --[x] Otherwise, bodykill her as quickly as possible.
    [x] Take a moment to calm down.
    -[X] Tell Riona you appreciate her being frank and upfront. You'll try to do the same.
    [X] How many people has she done this to? What were the circumstances? You're willing to hear her out, but her actions sound horrifying, morally and practically.
    -[X] You understand some of her actions might have been necessary before, but you're building a better world than that.
    -[X] Explain your work and hopes to improve things.
    --[X] Standards, justice, society.
    --[X] Free cleansing, Clear Seeds.
    --[X] De-Witching.
    [X] You want to work with her. If you cooperate, you believe you can do amazing things.
    -[X] But you can't accept what she's claiming. Enslaving people's Souls is wrong, even if they're bad. Ask her to stop. Ask if she can restore or release the Souls she's forcibly taken.
    --[X] Offer alternatives and solutions. Jail, therapy, magically created bodies for those souls, magical research, whatever is necessary.
    --[X] Offer free cleansing for life, if she can agree with that.
    [X] Ask her to give us a chance, to work with us, and do better.
    -[X] Everyone should have the opportuniy to become better then they were. That includes the souls she's trapped, and that includes her.
Click to expand...
 
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