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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Alright, people are getting way too eager for blood here. Violence is not the answer here, and is not what we should be immediately be resorting to. Lets try and redeem a person instead of condemn a villain who'd only endanger us and those we care about.

Lets get some shit straight here, First off We need her to release the souls from servitude. If they just autonomously do the tasks she's assigned them to without her input then gemming her is no better than condemning those bound souls to hell.

Second, Diplomacy has not yet failed. If she absolutely refuses to release the bound souls for our support, then yes, Timestop Gank. But for now, she is still logical, so would respond to us giving her a better non-evil method of conduct as well as poking holes in her current logic. (The Clear Seed means she doesn't have to worry about fighting Witches as 'efficiently' and if she can capture a girls soul with her power already then there is no reason for her to prevent it from moving on and keeping it bound to her only makes her just as much of a evil person as those she's binding. And rebuttals of 'but I need it!' can be answered as they come, because she very much doesn't 'need' to do this.)

Third, Turning on someone confessing their sins, even if they don't believe it is a sin, sets a bad precedent. We need to be able to forgive these kind of people, so that they may become better. That doesn't mean forget their actions or 'let it slide' that means actively attempting to make them a better person so they may do good in the future.
 
cmwatford said:
She's about to gain freedom. That's a pretty huge motivator.
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She doesn't seem like she was hurting for seeds. And doesn't seem the type to give up her power by and large just because someone offered to comp her.
Skelm said:
So what? I don't care if she's evil, I care about the outcomes for the people involved. I do think that assigning her moral labels like they're an inherent nature is misleading you.
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Uh. I kinda care if she's evil, if that makes her enslave people's souls. She can't be allowed to do that anymore, and it's kind of what she does.
 
Skelm said:
Do you think this because you care about her slaves well being, or for other reasons?
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Enslaving someone is the pinnacle of denying someone their dignity as sapient beings. Even killing them outright respects their dignity more. It is wrong inherently, the utimate denial of the natural rights inherent to being a sapient human.
 
Look, I'd be a lot more amenable to talking to her if she didn't think stealing people's actual souls was an okay thing for a person to do. It's what her wish gave her. I very highly doubt we'll be convincing her to basically give it up for free cleansing. She doesn't seem like she was starved for them.
 
Aranfan said:
Freedom to enslave as many people as she wants without grief buildup? Some freedom.
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Again, people who do things you think are wrong are not motivated by pure evil. That you would be strongly motivated to not do something doesn't mean they must be equally strongly motivated to do it.
Spectral Waltz said:
How?
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She appears to be able to give them permanent, conditional instructions, so if we kill her it's likely that we will be forever fending off magical ghost assassinations.
Gadjo said:
She doesn't seem like she was hurting for seeds. And doesn't seem the type to give up her power by and large just because someone offered to comp her.
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She literally dropped everything to travel to the other side of the world in the rumour of our existence. What do you think she was looking for, if not infinite cleansing?
Aranfan said:
Enslaving someone is the pinnacle of denying someone their dignity as sapient beings. Even killing them outright respects their dignity more. It is wrong inherently, the utimate denial of the natural rights inherent to being a sapient human.
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Then perhaps you should take the path that might lead to them being freed, rather then the one that leads to them being trapped for eternity because you killed the person who could release them.
 
Skelm said:
She literally dropped everything to travel to the other side of the world in the rumour of our existence. What do you think she was looking for, if not infinite cleansing?
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Skelm said:
Again, people who do things you think are wrong are not motivated by pure evil. That you would be strongly motivated to not do something doesn't mean they must be equally strongly motivated to do it.
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Sure, infinite cleansing would be a step up, but we've seen other magical girls tell us to go to hell when we ask for easier things even offering that.

Also, again, no one is motivated by pure evil. Your motivations or actions can make you evil though, and hers definitely have.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by cmwatford on Jul 29, 2018 at 10:40 AM, finished with 104 posts and 12 votes.
  • [X] Use grief to generate quiet sound in Mami's ear.
    -[X] "Timestop, now!"
    [X] Rionna's soul gem is a ring on her finger right now. Cut her hand off with grief, do not touch gem with grief, use hand for moving about if absolutely necessary. Keep soul gem in privacy sphere, to isolate from enslaved souls. Avoid contact so she can't act in timestop.
    [X] Use grief to encapsulate Rionna without touching her, and flash-vaporize Rionna's body.
    [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.
    [X] Talk about Clear Seeds. Explain that you're distributing them to groups you trust, as a stopgap measure. Show Hildegarde and Aurora.
    -[X] Share your observations, explain your procedures. Ask Riona for her professional opinion.
    --[X] Explain the need for a more moral solution, and your hopes for, eventually, after much study, de-Witching. Ask for her help.
    [X] If she brings it up again: Share your theory of being created by magic: The unusual state of your soul, and having personal amnesia... but significant knowledge of the magical girl system, enough to know to make your wish.
    -[X] Ask what Riona's powers see in you.
    [X] Stay calm. Keep talking. Obviously, what Riona's done is massively fucked up. But you can't start a fight here, not with all these people around. Get more information, and get Rionna away from the muggles. Perhaps you could show her Warehouse-kun?
    [x] Explode her gem
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[X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.

*anons play a quest in which they are Madoka's Jesus equivalent, and the result of her wish to "fix everything"*

*anons play the character like she's a saint with infinite patience, trying to save and talk down everyone, even unethical enemies, only using violence as a last resort, for 5672 pages*

*anons have no trouble with befriending someone who happily fed people to Witches for phat loot phat Grief Seeds, as well as a pair of girls who nearly became Witch-creating serial killers due to shady future visions, along with a Magical Girl with a body count in the hundreds at the very least, innocent and guilty alike, and who could very well become the Actual Devil in the near future, if she hasn't become one already*

*anons flip their shit and push for their saint of a character to immediately murder an OC character who claimed to have done something unethical, even though they seem to have all the cards they need to push for a diplomatic ending, due to having the OC's life's goal in their pocket (Clear Seed = Absolute Freedom from Grief), and despite having been previously told that the OC isn't a monster*

Gotta love the scent of double standards.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
If we are disabling her immediately, I think it's worth it to try to arrange things so Sayaka can copy her. (Safely, from timestop, with antimagic on standby).

Sayaka won't be an evil asshole with the power, and having soul magic is probably going to improve our dewitching progress significantly.
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Okay, I am really unhappy with this and Godwinson's track, and this post encapsulates the end result I fear perfectly.

Because everything that's being proposed to deal with Rionna?

Is exactly what we're mad at Rionna for doing.

The proposal here and the stuff from Godwinson here reads to me "She takes people souls and uses them as tools! So... take her soul (and, optionally, use it as our tool.)"

No, fuck that, fuck going down the same road she did.


EDIT: Like, you wanna say, "Don't work with her?" Sure, fine: A perfectly reasonable and acceptable response to all this.

But don't become her.
 
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Akasha said:
*anons have no trouble with befriending someone who happily fed people to Witches for phat loot phat Grief Seeds, as well as a pair of girls who nearly became Witch-creating serial killers due to shady future visions*
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Akasha said:
*anons flip their shit and push for their saint of a character to immediately murder an OC character who claimed to have done something unethical, even though they seem to have all the cards they need to push for a diplomatic ending, due to having the OC's life's goal in their pocket (Clear Seed = Absolute Freedom from Grief)*
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Kyoko didn't feed people to familiars, she just ignored them, knowing they would. Negligence. Also, even killing people would be more understandable than what Rionna is doing. Also, not pushing for murdering her at present moment. And people have refused our offers with infinite cleansing before, and convincing someone to give up their wish powers is a hell of a steep cost. If we gave her a hard line on that, she'd probably just steal our soul. Which would make her impossibly powerful and scary.
The Phoenixian said:
Because everything that's being proposed to deal with Rionna?

Is exactly what we're mad at Rionna for doing.
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Sayaka's power doesn't keep her soul around forever, and personally I plan on keeping her locked up until we can safely handle her.
 
- [X] Continue vote in abeyance: Stay neutral, don't judge her. Give your spiel.

What she does is not okay by my moral standards. Not even close.
Gemming her right now is also not okay for me, though. Convoluted by being impractical and hypocritical.
 
There's an implicit promise in this quest, that things can be fixed. However, this doesn't mean that they will be; it's up to us to stay on the path towards saving everyone. Ask yourselves: Is attacking Riona here the path towards fixing things? Fixing anything at all?

How we handle this is a major turning point for the quest, and I suspect it will have a huge impact on Sabrina as a person. At minimum, we owe this decision some serious deliberation before starting to cast votes.

On that note, great job on this @Firnagzen. Excellent in-character drama combined with a difficult decision for the voters, exemplary quest writing.
 
Gadjo said:
Kyoko didn't feed people to familiars, she just ignored them, knowing they would. Negligence. Also, even killing people would be more understandable than what Rionna is doing. Also, not pushing for murdering her at present moment. And people have refused our offers with infinite cleansing before, and convincing someone to give up their wish powers is a hell of a steep cost. If we gave her a hard line on that, she'd probably just steal our soul. Which would make her impossibly powerful and scary.

Sayaka's power doesn't keep her soul around forever, and personally I plan on keeping her locked up until we can safely handle her.
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The difference between Rionna and everyone else we've offered Clear Seeds to, is that Rionna outright stated that freedom from Grief is her entire life's goal. All the other cases had other goals, other purposes, and Clear Seeds were simply a way to finally get rid of the need to hunt for Grief Seeds. Even then, almost everyone accepted our offer. Why would someone obsessed with being free of Grief not accept it?

Also, as you yourself stated, Kyouko knew about the Witches and what they were doing, but she didn't hunt them down, even though it would have given her Grief Seeds, because letting people be devoured would've given her more Grief Seeds in the long run. That is the equivalent of being a professional swimmer and rescuer, and watching someone drown right in front of you, refusing to save them despite knowing that you can, because they have a really nice backpack that you want, and it'll be easier to rip it off their corpse than to earn enough money to buy another. Sure, you didn't push them in, but that's certainly not mere negligence at this point.
 
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Roomba said:
There's an implicit promise in this quest, that things can be fixed. However, this doesn't mean that they will be; it's up to us to stay on the path towards saving everyone. Ask yourselves: Is attacking Riona here the path towards fixing things? Fixing anything at all?

How we handle this is a major turning point for the quest, and I suspect it will have a huge impact on Sabrina as a person. At minimum, we owe this decision some serious deliberation before starting to cast votes.
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It's a path towards saving the people she's imprisoned, because given that she's been doing it for years I really don't see her agreeing to give it up. Because she'd have two options: comply, or just steal Sabrina's soul, which she's seen no problem doing to other people so far.
Akasha said:
The difference between Rionna and everyone else we've offered Clear Seeds to, is that Rionna outright stated that freedom from Grief is her entire life's goal. All the other cases had other goals, other purposes, and Clear Seeds were simply a way to finally get rid of the need to hunt for Grief Seeds. Even then, almost everyone accepted our offer. Why would someone obsessed with being free of Grief not accept it?
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Because her wish allows her to enslave people's souls, and her alternative to doing something she really doesn't want to do is doing something that she clearly doesn't see any problem doing- steal a soul.
 
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