We need to present Madoka with chibi's. Science demands it.

(I just can't decide if Chibi-Homu or Chibi-Brina would be better. Former has precedent for appeal as seen with Mami and the Pleiades harem, buuuut chibi-Brina being more obviously her kid in chibi-mode is why I figure godoka leaked in)
 
I would agree with you if I thought we had a way to go out and acquire information. Right now we're standing in an empty football stadium, blindfolded and stabbing at the darkness. We have zero control over our progress toward this quest's conclusion.
Personally, I believe we have numerous avenues via which to look into things. Just off the top of my head...
  • If psychometry is possible then the feather exists and can be studied that way. Either with grief-hax, or with the aid of a meguca capable of it.
  • If the theory of echoes is correct then, depending on it's inner workings, we may be able to ask Sayaka if various entities and events ping her memories. This ranges from Wraiths, (wraith arc/rebellion) to Idol Mami (PSP), to Kyousuke playing in an empty concert hall (end of PMMM canon), to, if we feel like it, a video diary (Sayakaquest: serves as a negative control) This provides data on what's in play and how things work.
  • We can ask Oriko questions about her visions of feathers and other timelines Even without her power she's already seen things. (For instance, see's seen enough to know that asking Homura about the last timeline incautiously is a bad idea. We could ask her what she saw that made her think so.) It's time-limited and spotty unless she gets her power back, but it's there.
  • We can ask Homura questions and look for notable divides between her knowledge and ours.
  • If all else fails, we can try and just griefhax a device to directly contact our creator.
Beyond that, I'd say we're hardly nowhere in our knowledge of broader stuff. Take Feathers for example: Even if we strip out literally everything we currently theorize and just look at the incident of Our Benefactor we can limit it to three possible beings responsible.

1: Feathers has godlike power and can rearrange the universe at a whim. This rules out most magical girls and entities with below the level of potential.
2: She has an interest in Sayaka. Someone who didn't know her likely wouldn't give a damn no matter how strong. This means it's limited to people we know rather than some hypothetical OC.

And just with those two points, ignoring all former discussion, we're down to Homura, Ourselves, and Madoka for the party responsible purely based on available power and relationships. Add all that discussion and that narrows down to "probably Homura" but even if we're badly wrong the range of possibility doesn't expand that much.

Ignoring that we have a canon omake of Madokami showing up to visit even though the events that created her never happened...

My general hypothesis is that Madoka's wish turned her into a manifestation of her "Fix Everything" wish, as a sort of demi-Madokami that is subtly trying to micromanage the changes in the timelines and possibly feed us our metaknowledge so that everything can be fixed, and also it detwitched Wally and possibly UKG/Homulilly. I'm actually fairly confident that Homura was dewitched even if Feathers has nothing to do with Homulilly, actually.

Assuming any of the above is true, Sabrina being a dewitched UKG explains literally everything about Sabrina much more succinctly than Wally-theory, and can be explained as "UKG is something that needs to be fixed, because it's the personification of all Magical Girls that ever suffered, even if it was never allowed to exist."

I mean shit, UKG never existed in canon because Madokami keeps punching it out before it's born, but it's still the main antagonist of Wraith Arc and possibly the 4th Movie. Causality is fucked.
Right, since it seems I'm not being clear here.

Despite the prior lines of talk RE: KG!feathers, I am not contrasting Homulilly theory against anything so much as opposed to the nothing. If it is, being compared against anything any point, then right now that's post-rebellion theory. (IE: Homucifer slid down the slippery slope, witched out, got fixed, and her memory of the last timeline is wrong.)

I don't raise Sabrina being Walpurgisnacht as a point because I think that's what's happening, I raise it because it's the likely end result for the scenario posited, and as such a reason that scenario doesn't fit together well.

If I'm going to make a point here it's that everything is much simpler if we're talking in the vein of a post-rebellion theory rather than the mess of things required for a PMMM timeline as seen. (It's much simpler to get Madokami, UKG, and so on if it all actually happened, rather than the hoops that need to be jumped through)

I'll also point out that even during Wraith Arc, UKG doesn't come out of nowhere. She's constantly being destroyed by her time travelling past self, sure, but the whole deal that causes the mess is another time traveler who specifically wished to be connected to her. Homura's shield and her (original) wish to be reunited with Madoka via redoing their first meeting links to her, and so that's why they're able to meet each other and how UKG is able to break out.

Read the Witch of Despair's Witch card and then invert it, and tell me that it isn't Sabrina. I'll wait.

This is incredibly rude and extremely enraging. Read my posts with a at least a modicum of good faith.
 
Right, since it seems I'm not being clear here.

Despite the prior lines of talk RE: KG!feathers, I am not contrasting Homulilly theory against anything so much as opposed to the nothing. If it is, being compared against anything any point, then right now that's post-rebellion theory. (IE: Homucifer slid down the slippery slope, witched out, got fixed, and her memory of the last timeline is wrong.)

I don't raise Sabrina being Walpurgisnacht as a point because I think that's what's happening, I raise it because it's the likely end result for the scenario posited, and as such a reason that scenario doesn't fit together well.

If I'm going to make a point here it's that everything is much simpler if we're talking in the vein of a post-rebellion theory rather than the mess of things required for a PMMM timeline as seen. (It's much simpler to get Madokami, UKG, and so on if it all actually happened, rather than the hoops that need to be jumped through)

I'll also point out that even during Wraith Arc, UKG doesn't come out of nowhere. She's constantly being destroyed by her time travelling past self, sure, but the whole deal that causes the mess is another time traveler who specifically wished to be connected to her. Homura's shield and her (original) wish to be reunited with Madoka via redoing their first meeting links to her, and so that's why they're able to meet each other and how UKG is able to break out.

I'm aware of the Wraith Arc mechanics of that fuckery; but the Concept Movie implies that UKG is going to invade reality without Madoka 'up there' to keep punching her out, so acausal fuckery is implied either way.

You're right that Wally-theory is really convincing and has a lot behind it, but there's some sticking points for me. The wings are actually an example against it, because A) Wally doesn't have wings anywhere in her symbolic panopoly, and B) Sabrina finds them intuitive and Firn came up with them, not us. That's... that's really, really weird.

And hell, for all we know, UKG exists as Sabrina's Wraith balance, idk.

This is incredibly rude and extremely enraging. Read my posts with a at least a modicum of good faith.

Sorry, that's not how I meant it to come out. Levity attempt came out wrong. I meant that the Witch of Despair's description is such a perfect inversion of how you would summarize Sabrina that I find it incredibly damning.
 
[X] Redshirt Army

All of these are covered in the chatlog in which the hypothesis was originally nailed down. To summarize:
  • Homulilly is motivated by a twisted, defeatist adherence to her own Wish: She believes that she failed to protect Madoka, and she believes that Madoka is better off having never existed, and if anyone else looks like they'll be the one to save Madoka she'll kill them because she's no longer able to conceptualize Madoka being saved and thinks that anyone that's getting close is just prolonging her suffering.
  • I'd have to reread to be certain, but I believe that there's some connection from Homulilly to all witches through us/UKG and this explains both how she's able to act when we enter our barrier (and how she can't find us when we're in time stop!) and why she attacked Sayaka the way she did.

Thanks for that chatlog, it helped flesh the theory out. It does fit very well from a thematic point of view, and with all the other information we have from canon.

Still, I can't help but be skeptical of it, because it starts running into problems the moment we try to use it to explain what actually happened in PMAS when Feathers acted. Why attack Sayaka, as opposed to Madoka? The bit about controlling witches is just a bunch of handwaving, and the connection to our barrier requires the "Sabrina = UKG" theory, which is another pile of complete unverifiability.

Also, it doesn't really help us predict what Feathers will do, or what it can do. From the Discord discussion, I just recall the idea that it will help Walpy, which we can't counteract in any way. Can it act while we're outside our barrier at all? I'd assume so, otherwise we win by not making any barriers. If it can, why isn't it? What is it waiting for?

I mean, one conclusion is to help Homura overcome her self-esteem problems, but we're doing that anyway. In the end, I'm not sure what that theory gives us in terms of actionable insights.

I would agree with you if I thought we had a way to go out and acquire information. Right now we're standing in an empty football stadium, blindfolded and stabbing at the darkness. We have zero control over our progress toward this quest's conclusion.

We can do another barrier experiment. It's just really scary, because the consequences are potentially disastrous. I personally think we should seriously consider it. Heroes act, after all.
 
Last edited:
We have to keep in mind Homura would rather kill O&K, have us stop doing our meguca saving thing, and use the fact the current timeline has been successful beyond her wildest dreams to take down Walpurgisnacht, easily.

Surely that'll be enough to take down Feathers too, whatever that is.

As it is, Homu is not just worried that she's not the one saving Madoka herself; while that might be the core issue, she's being pressed on all sides by constant fears.

First it was fear of Walpurgisnact; then Oriko popped back up as a threat this timeline and we kept her around to keep worrying Homu; then Homu seemed to at least consider the existence of Feathers; then we keep getting in trouble with meguca and now we're getting meguca inmigrants.

Homu's got quite a bit of stress piled up on her thin frame.
 
I think we've long since decided we'd be Sabrina Tomoe. :p

Consort to Empress Tomoe whatever.

Sabrina Tomoe.

We might have forgot to inform Mami about this, though. Shall we rectify this? :V
 
I've been wondering what this story would've been like had Sabrina showed up in the early loops of Moemura (yet with still the entire canon knowledge) instead of (what appears to be) the canon timeline with hardened and broken Homu.
 
[X] Emotional comfort first.
-[X] Softly disagree with Homura's negativity.
-[X] Firmly state your belief in her. Re-state your promises that things will work this time.

[X] Keep asking Homura how she's feeling, if she needs time, and once you reach a point where Homura feels better, ask if she wants to go on.

[X] Make the case that Homura is the source of Madoka's hope.
-[X] There is hope, thing will work out, and it's thanks to Homura.
 
Reminder we owe Homu a favor for sparing Oriko.

Also, I was gonna comment on this later, but so I don't forget again, I want to ask Mami what her birthday is, during dinner.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Apr 27, 2018 at 9:02 AM, finished with 137173 posts and 11 votes.

  • [x] More hugs.
    -[X] Re-promise everything will work out.
    -[X] Tell Homura she can always come to you if she feels the need to talk about anything... or to hug someone.
    [X] Firnagzen
    [x] More hugs.
    -[x] You demand more hugs.
    [X] continue vote in abeyance
    [x] after hugs
    [x] Ask Homura what she wants to do.
    -[x] Keep working on defensive enchantments? Comment about their usefulness not only to give to Madoka, but to protect everyone's Soul Gems.
    -[x] Just sit back and relax watching the sparring video.
    -[x] Just grab everyone in a huge cuddle pile (invite Madoka) and have a cuddle pile sleepover.
    -[x] Write-in
    [X] Ask if Homura wants another hug.
    -[X] Re-promise everything will work out.
    -[X] Tell Homura she can always come to you if she feels the need to talk about anything... or to hug someone.
    [X] Firnagzen
    [x] More hugs.
    -[X] Re-promise everything will work out.
    --[X] She's the best mom you could ask for.
    -[X] Tell Homura she can always come to you if she feels the need to talk about anything... or to hug someone.
    --[X] Speaking of which, is there anything else she wants to talk about?
    [X] Firnagzen
    [x] That's what friends are for, Homura.
    -[x] She's our friend and we care about her and want her to be happy.
    --[x] She's the closes thing we have to family and we will always be there for her.
    -[x] She's Mami and Sayaka's friend and they care about her to be happy, too.
    -[x] Madoka cares about her and wants her to be happy, too.
    --[x] We're all here for her. She is not alone.
    [x] Hug and comfort her while she composes herself.
    [x] Ask if anything else is troubling her.
    -[x] Or anything else she wants to talk about.
    -[x] If there isn't anything, continue vote in abeyance.
    [X]Null
    [x] She realizes, of course, that if Madoka is Mado-kaa, <switch to English> that means that Homura is Homu-mom, right?
    [X] Firnagzen
    [x] refer to the Yakuza gold as an "allowance" and/or "lunch money"

Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Apr 27, 2018 at 11:12 PM, finished with 137177 posts and 12 votes.

  • [x] More hugs.
    -[X] Re-promise everything will work out.
    -[X] Tell Homura she can always come to you if she feels the need to talk about anything... or to hug someone.
    [X] Firnagzen
    [x] More hugs.
    -[x] You demand more hugs.
    [X] continue vote in abeyance
    [x] after hugs
    [x] Ask Homura what she wants to do.
    -[x] Keep working on defensive enchantments? Comment about their usefulness not only to give to Madoka, but to protect everyone's Soul Gems.
    -[x] Just sit back and relax watching the sparring video.
    -[x] Just grab everyone in a huge cuddle pile (invite Madoka) and have a cuddle pile sleepover.
    -[x] Write-in
    [X] Ask if Homura wants another hug.
    -[X] Re-promise everything will work out.
    -[X] Tell Homura she can always come to you if she feels the need to talk about anything... or to hug someone.
    [X] Firnagzen
    [x] More hugs.
    -[X] Re-promise everything will work out.
    --[X] She's the best mom you could ask for.
    -[X] Tell Homura she can always come to you if she feels the need to talk about anything... or to hug someone.
    --[X] Speaking of which, is there anything else she wants to talk about?
    [X] Firnagzen
    [x] That's what friends are for, Homura.
    -[x] She's our friend and we care about her and want her to be happy.
    --[x] She's the closes thing we have to family and we will always be there for her.
    -[x] She's Mami and Sayaka's friend and they care about her to be happy, too.
    -[x] Madoka cares about her and wants her to be happy, too.
    --[x] We're all here for her. She is not alone.
    [x] Hug and comfort her while she composes herself.
    [x] Ask if anything else is troubling her.
    -[x] Or anything else she wants to talk about.
    -[x] If there isn't anything, continue vote in abeyance.
    [X]Null
    [x] She realizes, of course, that if Madoka is Mado-kaa, <switch to English> that means that Homura is Homu-mom, right?
    [X] Firnagzen
    [x] refer to the Yakuza gold as an "allowance" and/or "lunch money"
 
Back
Top