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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Points made previous update:

Firnagzen said:
"She recognises you, when you show up at school... you must have noticed that. And not only that, what she picks up from those dreams, those impressions and instincts? They drive her to trust you, and get closer to you."

"She's wrong," Homura whispers. "That's- that's wrong. It- that shouldn't-"
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Doka always trusts Homura.

Doka is wrong. Doka should not know anything about anything.


Oh hey, typo.
Firnagzen said:
"She desn't think you're a failure," you murmur. "Her dreams are... sketchy, and she doesn't get that much out of them. But from what she knows, she trusts you, Homura."

"She- how?" Homura whispers into your shoulder. Quiet and soft, nearly inaudible even in the dead silence of her timestop.

"How do I know this?" you murmur. "Well, beyond my metaknowledge... beyond the fact that she's a good person, she does trust you implicitly. She recognised you, on some level, from the very first moment you meet every loop, right? And she's asked you if you'd met before, and she's turned to you for help. It's... instinctive, for her."

...

"It's just little bits and flashes," you murmur. "And despite that, she knows on some level you're fighting for her. You're not hurting her - you know her, right? If you were, she'd avoid you. But she thinks of you as a friend, as someone to be trusted, because you're making progress. You're making sure she doesn't get tricked again."

"She's wrong," Homura whispers, the words agonized and raw. "She- she shouldn't, I- I failed-"
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Doka is not hurting Homu. Proof: Doka trusts Homu instead of avoiding her.

Doka is wrong. Homu is a failure. Past, present, and future.


Firnagzen said:
"No, Homura," you say. "No, she's right to trust you. Without you, none of this would be possible. Without you, Mami, Sayaka, Mitakihara itself, Madoka... it'd all be gone for good. The only reason the chance to fight for a better future is because you never gave up. The only reason I exist is because you never gave up. I owe everything to you, Homura."

"I-" Homura chokes on the word, shaking her head wordlessly. "I failed. I- I only hurt Madoka."
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Everything can be saved and exists, including everything, and it's thanks to Homu.

Homu doesn't help Doka. Homu only extends Doka's suffering.

Appropriate illustration to this point:
Vebyast said:
Homulilly is motivated by a twisted, defeatist adherence to her own Wish: She believes that she failed to protect Madoka, and she believes that Madoka is better off having never existed,
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And that's scary. Homura just had a fearful reaction about Wish rejection 0 normal IC seconds ago. I've thought it more than once while reading these updates, but Homu's mentailty could be read as horribly close to Homulilly's already. Even beyond the canon imagery.



BTW, I know it's not the point and not something to bring up, but that last bit is kind of hurtful. >_>

The only reason I exist is because you never gave up. I owe everything to you, Homura."

"I-" Homura chokes on the word, shaking her head wordlessly. "I failed. I- I only hurt Madoka."
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"Thanks for giving me life, Homu."

"Doka Doka Doka."
 
The Phoenixian said:
Personally, I don't read PMAS's story structure that way.

I see the informational structure here being more akin to a game of Forum Mafia than the average story: We get hints here and there but at the heart of things information isn't handed to us based on pacing, it's something we make efforts to go out and acquire, and once we have most of it, a significant portion of the quest won. Not all of it, I expect that a lot of our conflict will be interpersonal and, eventually, political but knowledge of events, our capabilities, metaphysics and especially people so far appears to be a good 50-80% of the fight.

(For instance, think of just how much easier things like Sendai or Asunaro would be if we had known from the start exactly who was lichbombed and who was witchbombed, how much, when, and how. Or, moreso, if we'd known how what everyone's motives were from the outset. Likewise just our own capabilities.)
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I would agree with you if I thought we had a way to go out and acquire information. Right now we're standing in an empty football stadium, blindfolded and stabbing at the darkness. We have zero control over our progress toward this quest's conclusion.
Onmur said:
And that's scary. Homura just had a fearful reaction about Wish rejection 0 normal IC seconds ago. I've thought it more than once while reading these updates, but Homu's mentailty could be read as horribly close to Homulilly's already. Even beyond the canon imagery.
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There's a reason I'm so willing to believe that Homura has already witched out in this continuity.

edit:
Kaizuki said:
Issues:
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Leave them in and let Brinapilot figure it out.
 
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I just... there's an argument to be made here. "Madoka is happy this timeline. Was there any timeline before this one where she was? And would we be at this timeline without your actions?"
 
Adjusted for extra vote merge.

[X] Keep being empathyBrina.
-[x] Take care to keep Homura open and communicating.
-[x] Take your time, give Homura however long she needs.

[x] Tone: Absolute, total, beyond the ends of the world certainty. You know this is true.
-[x] Homura is not a failure. She is not a good for nothing. You won't put up with hearing one of the most amazing people in the world, one of your friends, put themselves down like that.
-[x] Right here, right now, Madoka is happy, and safe, and protected. By her.
-[x] If Madoka knew everything Homura's done for her, she wouldn't hesitate to say for an instant that Homura is her greatest and best friend.

[x] Conversation goals: Get Homura to a point where it's safe to let her think about all of this.
-[x] Madoka was better off with Homura there, even if Homura hasn't met her own standards of success yet.

[x] Potentially, as needed to accomplish those goals:
-[x] She was put in a nearly impossible situation, and can't blame herself for that. You couldn't have done better, not in her shoes.
--[x] She still kept Mami and Sayaka in her heart to the end, even though they kept falling and taking Madoka with them. She kept trying, which is all anyone could ask.
-[x] You know what Homura's done, and you accept her. You'll believe in her to the end.
--[x] Madoka would too, you're certain of it.
-[x] Only because of Homura is there hope for a better world in the future.
--[x] Striving for a better outcome for everyone is what Madoka would have wanted from her.
-[x] Thank Homura for all she's done - and still is doing - for Madoka, you, and the world.
-[x] Provide tactile support and encouragement to the degree Homura is comfortable with it.
 
Redshirt Army said:
[x] Tone: Absolute, total, beyond the ends of the world certainty. You know this is true.
-[x] Homura is not a failure. She is not a good for nothing. You won't put up with hearing one of the most amazing people in the world, one of your friends, put themselves down like that.
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[Q] Grab Homura by the collar.
-[Q] "AND I'LL BEAT UP ANYONE WHO DOES!"
 
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Redshirt Army said:
Adjusted for extra vote merge.

[X] Keep being empathyBrina.
-[x] Take care to keep Homura open and communicating.
-[x] Take your time, give Homura however long she needs.

[x] Tone: Absolute, total, beyond the ends of the world certainty. You know this is true.
-[x] Homura is not a failure. She is not a good for nothing. You won't put up with hearing one of the most amazing people in the world, one of your friends, put themselves down like that.
-[x] Right here, right now, Madoka is happy, and safe, and protected. By her.
-[x] If Madoka knew everything Homura's done for her, she wouldn't hesitate to say for an instant that Homura is her greatest and best friend.

[x] Conversation goals: Get Homura to a point where it's safe to let her think about all of this.
-[x] Madoka was better off with Homura there, even if Homura hasn't met her own standards of success yet.

[x] Potentially, as needed to accomplish those goals:
-[x] She was put in a nearly impossible situation, and can't blame herself for that. You couldn't have done better, not in her shoes.
--[x] She still kept Mami and Sayaka in her heart to the end, even though they kept falling and taking Madoka with them. She kept trying, which is all anyone could ask.
-[x] You know what Homura's done, and you accept her. You'll believe in her to the end.
--[x] Madoka would too, you're certain of it.
-[x] Only because of Homura is there hope for a better world in the future.
--[x] Striving for a better outcome for everyone is what Madoka would have wanted from her.
-[x] Thank Homura for all she's done - and still is doing - for Madoka, you, and the world.
-[x] Provide tactile support and encouragement to the degree Homura is comfortable with it.
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Tack another line in there after the red stuff about that not having been true in any earlier timeline. You gotta drive that point home by asking if, absent Homura's actions, Madoka would be happy and safe. And then TBH go ahead and add whatever else you want because none of it will matter by comparison, I think.

That argument does everything I ever wanted with everything after "explain to Homura that Madoka thinks she did the right things." It needs to go in right here right now as hard as we can push it.
 
Kaizuki said:
Tack another line in there after the red stuff about that not having been true in any earlier timeline. You gotta drive that point home by asking if, absent Homura's actions, Madoka would be happy and safe. And then TBH go ahead and add whatever else you want because none of it will matter by comparison, I think.

That argument does everything I ever wanted with everything after "explain to Homura that Madoka thinks she did the right things." It needs to go in right here right now as hard as we can push it.
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[X] Keep being empathyBrina.
-[x] Take care to keep Homura open and communicating.
-[x] Take your time, give Homura however long she needs.

[x] Tone: Absolute, total, beyond the ends of the world certainty. You know this is true.
-[x] Homura is not a failure. She is not a good for nothing. You won't put up with hearing one of the most amazing people in the world, one of your friends, put themselves down like that.
-[x] Right here, right now, Madoka is happy, and safe, and protected. By her. And if Madoka hadn't met Homura, her life would have been worse for it.
-[x] If Madoka knew everything Homura's done for her, she wouldn't hesitate for an instant to say that Homura is her greatest and best friend.

[x] Conversation goals: Get Homura to a point where it's safe to let her think about all of this.
-[x] Madoka was better off with Homura there, even if Homura hasn't met her own standards of success yet.

[x] Potentially, as needed to accomplish those goals:
-[x] She was put in a nearly impossible situation, and can't blame herself for that. You couldn't have done better, not in her shoes.
--[x] She still kept Mami and Sayaka in her heart to the end, even though they kept falling and taking Madoka with them. She kept trying, which is all anyone could ask.
-[x] You know what Homura's done, and you accept her. You'll believe in her to the end.
--[x] Madoka would too, you're certain of it.
-[x] Only because of Homura is there hope for a better world in the future.
--[x] Striving for a better outcome for everyone is what Madoka would have wanted from her.
-[x] Thank Homura for all she's done - and still is doing - for Madoka, you, and the world.
-[x] Provide tactile support and encouragement to the degree Homura is comfortable with it.

[x] Let Homu compose herself before returning to realtime.
 
Kaizuki said:
Tack another line in there after the red stuff about that not having been true in any earlier timeline. You gotta drive that point home by asking if, absent Homura's actions, Madoka would be happy and safe. And then TBH go ahead and add whatever else you want because none of it will matter by comparison, I think.

That argument does everything I ever wanted with everything after "explain to Homura that Madoka thinks she did the right things." It needs to go in right here right now as hard as we can push it.
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And... I mean it when I say ask. This needs to be something Homura works through on her own. It is an absolute fact that Madoka is currently happy and safe. And it is an absolute fact that absent Homura's actions, that would not be true.

It follows that Homura's statement, as just made,

Firnagzen said:
"I-" Homura chokes on the word, shaking her head wordlessly. "I failed. I- I only hurt Madoka."
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is strictly, demonstrably, obviously false.

...

You know what?

I think I've done convinced myself. Huh.

[X] Continuous cleanse.

[X] Tone: absolute.
[X] If she failed, if she only ever hurt Madoka, then why is Madoka currently safe and happy?
-[X] Was there ever a previous timeline when Madoka was safe and happy?
--[X] And if not, how can it possibly be the case that Homura is not directly responsible for that?
[X] Homura is stuck in a logical fallacy. Everything else can come later. Stick to empathyBrina and lead her through it repeatedly, until something sticks or there's a different result: in this timeline Madoka is happy and safe. In every other timeline, Madoka was not happy and safe. Homura cannot have only hurt Madoka because this timeline wouldn't exist without her actions, and in this timeline Madoka isn't suffering.

(125 words)

This said, Redshirt's is certainly acceptable. Would second it if necessary.
 
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I mean, we could also mention that if Homura never intervened with Madoka, then the latter would have likely used up her wish to revive a cat like she did in many of the earlier timelines.
 
Kaizuki said:
And... I mean it when I say ask. This needs to be something Homura works through on her own. It is an absolute fact that Madoka is currently happy and safe. And it is an absolute fact that absent Homura's actions, that would not be true.

It follows that Homura's statement, as just made,



is strictly, demonstrably, obviously false.

...

You know what?

I think I've done convinced myself. Huh.

[X] Continuous cleanse.

[X] Tone: absolute.
[X] If she failed, if she only ever hurt Madoka, then why is Madoka currently safe and happy?
-[X] Was there ever a previous timeline when Madoka was safe and happy?
--[X] And if not, how can it possibly be the case that Homura is not directly responsible for that?
[X] Homura is stuck in a logical fallacy. Everything else can come later. Stick to empathyBrina and lead her through it repeatedly, until something sticks or there's a different result: in this timeline Madoka is happy and safe. In every other timeline, Madoka was not happy and safe. Homura cannot have only hurt Madoka because this timeline wouldn't exist without her actions, and in this timeline Madoka isn't suffering.

This said, Redshirt's is certainly acceptable. Would second it if necessary.
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[X] Continuous cleanse.

[X] Tone: absolute.
[X] If she failed, if she only ever hurt Madoka, then why is Madoka currently safe and happy?
-[X] Was there ever a previous timeline when Madoka was safe and happy?
--[X] And if not, how can it possibly be the case that Homura is not directly responsible for that?
[X] Homura is stuck in a logical fallacy. Everything else can come later. Stick to empathyBrina and lead her through it repeatedly, until something sticks or there's a different result: in this timeline Madoka is happy and safe, and she will remain that way beyond WPN. In every other timeline, Madoka was not happy and safe beyond WPN. Homura cannot have only hurt Madoka because this timeline wouldn't exist without her actions, and in this timeline Madoka isn't and will not be suffering. You recognize that you haven't proved that yet -- WPN still needs to die -- but she said it herself: this timeline has results. You still don't agree that Homura has hurt Madoka up to this point, and you never will, but Homura must admit that if WPN is defeated in this timeline and Madoka's happiness and safety are preserved, it will be a fact that Homura has not only hurt Madoka, and it will be a fact that Homura has not only failed.

JarringToaster said:
I mean, we could also mention that if Homura never intervened with Madoka, then the latter would have likely used up her wish to revive a cat like she did in many of the earlier timelines.
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And if she says anything about not having done anything for Madoka in this timeline, we raise our eyebrow and point this out, because we didn't even exist when that would have happened.
 
Kaizuki said:
-[X] Was there ever a previous timeline when Madoka was safe and happy?
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Happy? Yes, there was: Timeline Zero went pretty smoothly right up until the very end, by all accounts.

Indeed, because of Madoka's issues with wanting to help people, I doubt that she's ever been as happy in any timelines where she doesn't contract as she was in the first few where she did.

Safe, on the other hand... certainly Madoka currently has the highest chances of making it past WPN that she's ever had, but there's two issues.

The first is that Homura isn't going to completely believe that Madoka is truly safe until WPN passes (and maybe not even then, depending on Feathers).

The second is that that safety is... only questionably because of Homura. She may well attribute it to us instead, which makes it less useful as a way of convincing her of her own value.
 
Redshirt Army said:
The second is that that safety is... only questionably because of Homura. She may well attribute it to us instead, which makes it less useful as a way of convincing her of her own value.
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I don't give a goddamn exactly how useful it is as long as it succeeds.

Provable logical fallacy centered around the success of this timeline? If we can extract something from her based on that provable thing, something like "if we defeat WPN here and Madoka remains safe and happy, I cannot have only hurt Madoka, and I cannot have only failed", the value of that cannot be overstated, because right now Homura has nothing. With that, she would have something. Once Homura goes from having no self-worth whatsoever to any self-worth, no matter how little, we can grow and nurture it. It'll blossom eventually, watching Madoka be safe and happy post-WPN, and it will grow, because we will make it grow.

The existing problem is that she has none whatsoever and so we have, essentially, no place to start at all and are stuck almost hoping to squeeze blood from a stone to try to change that. I'd take anything we can get here, Homura stating that there are circumstances which are likely to emerge under which she will have self-worth? That's a whole lot more than just "anything."
 
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Vebyast said:
I don't think that getting into a fight with Homura will help.
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... I'm having trouble determining who this is directed at. Or if it's just general advice.

I do think that we need to immediately oppose Homura's expressed sentiment that she's a failure from the end of the last update. Letting Homura build on that is a bad idea, better to nip that line of poisonous self-flagellation in the bud.

That said, doing it in a way Homura will accept instead of stubbornly digging her heel in on is obviously preferable.
 
So, a few days the peeps and I were wondering: What if Sabrina appeared about 5-10 years before the quest (Magic or no)

We concocted several scenarios full of fluff and gut punching

AuraTwilight: if Sabrina were older I'd try to set her up with Kazuko, possibly.
"So, men always disappoint you, huh?"
"Baby, I have no taste buds due to being a quest protagonist."
"I'll eat any eggs you like."

Redshirt Army: PMPS style loop... but we show up like 30 years earlier

AuraTwilight: it turns out dating Kazuko is a minmaxer's delight because she creates infinite grief for us.

Redshirt Army: wow
oh man I love it
so many OCs

AuraTwilight: "Okay, first thing's first, stop Homura from going to that fucking orphanage."
I think he means the idea of "meta-aware adult tries to stop the loops before they start."
Like "Hey, violin kid. Take the bus today."

Redshirt Army: also because I don't want to be beholden to trying to keep the ending canonical with the start of PMMM. Like, if doesn't have to be sabrina

[6:25 PM] AuraTwilight: bonus omake:
[6:25 PM] AuraTwilight: "Hey Junko, let Madoka say fuck."
[6:26 PM] AuraTwilight: "your daughteru is literally 2 pure 4 earth, teach her swears or something."
calls social services on the Sakuras. Pathos moment where you're really heartbroken about separating Kyoko and Momo from their parents but ultimately it has to be done to keep them all from dying and you don't have superpowers.
I kind of like the idea of Meta-aware Adult having no superpowers
[6:28 PM] AuraTwilight: and like he survives multiple Meguca fights as a target or bystander because he's a socially responsible and emotionally mature adult who can talk to them about their problems and be a functional therapist.
[6:28 PM] AuraTwilight: Because he used his foreknowledge and planned his life around that career.
[6:28 PM] AuraTwilight: oh my god this is awesome.
Puella Magi Meta-aware Muggle Therapist Magica
and also he can be like the old man from Alice & Zouroku and be the stern father figure to all these stupid magical anime girls
fucking 70 year old man is suddenly harassed by reality-warping 10 year old girls of WMD-level mass destruction and he just bops them on the head and tells them to behave, and mind their manners. Look at how your shenanigans inconvenienced all these people and made a scene.

] AuraTwilight: Guca Merlin has the problem of "Is probably grossly overpowered and thus boring.""

[6:31 PM] Redshirt Army: Even Sabrina is kind of pushing it
[6:31 PM] Redshirt Army: since 30 years is a bit too much lead time

Redshirt Army: but I explicitly wanted it to be "the parents generation"

AuraTwilight: in a world where Junko and Kazuko have another old school friend who knows a lot of fucking shit.

[6:33 PM] AuraTwilight: and like you can give them similar lead-ins to the plot.
[6:33 PM] AuraTwilight: Sayaka and Madoka are like "Uncle/Aunt whatever? How do you know about Kyubey?"
[6:33 PM] AuraTwilight: like a lot of the loop is personal to them.

[6:34 PM] Redshirt Army: well I mean
[6:34 PM] Redshirt Army: In this timeline
[6:34 PM] Redshirt Army: I'm pretty sure Homura just gets adopted
[6:34 PM] Sabrina: If it was Sabrina? Absolutely

[6:34 PM] AuraTwilight: "Look. I know. I don't know how I know. And I guess in most worlds I...don't exist? I mean I have parents and a life and shit, I guess quantum'sa bitch. But look... Madoka is my niece. I've known her all her life. I know her more than even you, probably. And I'll help you."

[6:34 PM] Redshirt Army: yeah, Homura gets adopted
[6:35 PM] AuraTwilight: Homura hella gets adopted
[6:35 PM] Redshirt Army: might be interesting if she loops in anyway
[6:35 PM] AuraTwilight: Mami too
[6:35 PM] AuraTwilight: cue all those Mami/Homura roommate goodnesses from that one semi-official comic

[6:35 PM] AuraTwilight: "I'm starting an orphanage for magical childre-" Homura: "Stop it."
[6:36 PM] Redshirt Army: Kyouko's family doesn't die
[6:36 PM] AuraTwilight: I mean yea, that's true
[6:36 PM] Sabrina: Kyouko is just allowed to crash "however often you need"

[6:36 PM] Redshirt Army: prevent car accident
[6:36 PM] AuraTwilight: Yea Mami is probably preventable.

[6:36 PM] Sabrina: I think the best time to throw Sabrina in
[6:36 PM] AuraTwilight: I feel like Mami might contract under different circumstances if not for that.
[6:37 PM] Sabrina: Would be 5-10 years before canon

[6:37 PM] Onmar: "This is a totally normal orphanage for totally magical children- shit! I mean very normal children!"

"... Why are they all girls and why do they all seem to be playing with the same invisible friend/pet?"

"Because that's a thing normal kids d- SHIT KYUUBEY GET THE FUCK OUT!"

[6:37 PM] AuraTwilight: like if Mami learns about magic she's gonna contract no matter what you do to stop her.
[6:37 PM] AuraTwilight: She's too heroic.

[6:37 PM] Sabrina: if it's 5 years
Then it means Sabrina will be solidly young adult by the time canon approaches

[6:38 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina tries to intervene to save Mami's parents, but isn't able to sit on them 24/7
[6:38 PM] Sabrina: So Mami is the newbie magical girl

[6:39 PM] Sabrina: With Sabrina as the veteran meguca holding down the city
[6:39 PM] Redshirt Army: Sabrina mentoring mami would be hnnng
: "But... what can I really do with ribbons? Your magic is so much stronger..."

[6:39 PM] AuraTwilight: also Sabrina could still adopt Homura
and just be an awesome quirky Nee-san.
[6:39 PM] AuraTwilight: I kinda see adult Sabrina as basically being Misato without all the drinking and dysfunction.
[6:40 PM] AuraTwilight: ...and pedastry.
[6:40 PM] AuraTwilight: Okay so not a whole lot like Misato
[6:40 PM] AuraTwilight: but you know. Quirky young mom surrogate who's basically one of the kids.

[6:40 PM] Redshirt Army: Oh mang
She'd fuck Oriko's family UUUUPPP

[6:40 PM] AuraTwilight: "U-um... Sabrina-san, I don't think you can get drunk on tea... you don't... um..." Rookie Mami ultimate moe

[6:41 PM] AppleTank: >Sabrina glares Mami in the eye as she slides a cup of tea into the microwave
[6:41 PM] Redshirt Army: omg
[6:41 PM] AuraTwilight: imagine Mami having a precocious first crush on Sabrina-nee-san.

[6:41 PM] cmwatford: Shit I'd read that just for the moe.(edited)
[6:41 PM] Sabrina: Kouhai abuse!
[6:41 PM] Redshirt Army: tiny mumi
[6:41 PM] Redshirt Army: glaring up at us
[6:41 PM] Redshirt Army: as she pouts and yoinks the tea out
[6:41 PM] Sabrina: How dare you, AppleTank!

[6:41 PM] AuraTwilight: imagine rookie Mami thinking her ribbon power isn't very good
[6:41 PM] Redshirt Army: yeah
[6:41 PM] AppleTank: I will microwave tea for once in my life dammit
:V

[6:42 PM] AuraTwilight: and she starts to progress when she weaves an extravagant gift for Sabrina-san
[6:42 PM] AuraTwilight: She visualizes the smile she wants Sabrina-san to make
[6:42 PM] AuraTwilight: and the ribbons become a perfect golden stuffed bear or something
[6:42 PM] AuraTwilight: and Mami's face glows.

[6:42 PM] Redshirt Army: we show her the 4D trick
[6:42 PM] AppleTank: Oooo, that gets me right in the hnng
[6:42 PM] Sabrina: This is a neat idea.
[6:42 PM] AuraTwilight: I think I just made this AU mandatory.

[6:43 PM] AuraTwilight: So I shouldn't hunt Shinbo like a wild dog?
[6:43 PM] AuraTwilight: I mean I need to do that anyway to get movie 4 to hurry up but
[6:43 PM] Redshirt Army: anyway tiny Oriko would receive hugs

[6:44 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina adopts Oriko and Homura and they become fast friends.
[6:44 PM] AuraTwilight: Sabrina-nee-san just walks into the Mikuni house, picks up Oriko, and walks out the door without a word
[6:44 PM] Redshirt Army: Tiny Homura and -
[6:44 PM] Redshirt Army: Yes
[6:44 PM] Redshirt Army: Oriko

[6:44 PM] AuraTwilight: "This is kidnapping, Miss Sabrina." "Yea well fuck your family."
[6:44 PM] AuraTwilight: Kirika still falls in love and dates
[6:45 PM] AuraTwilight: the best part about Oriko and Homura being friends as children
[6:45 PM] AuraTwilight: is that Homura and Madoka is pretty much a cosmic law of the universe of shipping...
[6:45 PM] AuraTwilight: but it'll be way more healthy since she won't be Homura's entire reason to live.
[6:46 PM] AuraTwilight: Okay but imagine Oriko lightly teasing her sister Homura over her new crush.
[6:46 PM] AuraTwilight: and then Homura, all braids and glasses, frets and hmus and blushes, but manages to return a teasing jab about "This Kure-san"
[6:46 PM] Onmar: you think Oriko can do light teasing?

[6:46 PM] Redshirt Army: Hmm. Does Homura loop in, or do we stick to the earlier waff? Because that could get darkish fast.
[6:46 PM] AuraTwilight: honestly, if you wanna punch the readers right in the dick?
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: We adopt Homura, take care of her
[6:47 PM] Redshirt Army: I think this moemura would be less moe
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: and then right when the loops start
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: our Homura is overwritten
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: That's what an asshole author would do.
[6:47 PM] Redshirt Army: yeah that's what I Was questioning
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: and it'd hit hard.
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: god I'd fucking kill someone.

[6:47 PM] Sabrina: No, the idea is
[6:48 PM] Sabrina: This timeline's Homura has been looping
[6:48 PM] Sabrina: The idea is that even with Sabrina being there and trying to fix things
[6:48 PM] Sabrina: Homura still winds up having a reason to wish to go back
[6:49 PM] Sabrina: And does so over and over
[6:49 PM] Sabrina: But that Sabrina's presence didn't actually fix anything
[6:49 PM] AuraTwilight: Fuck you oh my god

[6:49 PM] AuraTwilight: Like our Homura just suddenly bawls her eyes out one morning
[6:49 PM] AuraTwilight: and withdraws from Sabrina
[6:49 PM] Sabrina: And that's the worst one I could think of
[6:49 PM] Sabrina: "You didn't fix anything."

[6:50 PM] AuraTwilight: what if she wished to go back because of you?
[6:50 PM] Sabrina: Then congrats, you didn't fix anything
[6:50 PM] AuraTwilight: Muggle Chirstmas Cake Mom Sabrina dies sheltering her children from the storm or something

[6:50 PM] Redshirt Army: how do you reassure your (esentially) daughter, when you know you must have tried over and over and over to make it work and never succeeded , after making the same reassurances?
[6:51 PM] AuraTwilight: imagine your cute braids daughteru suddenly just hugging you and stopping you from leaving for work
[6:51 PM] AuraTwilight: "Don't go to work today."
[6:51 PM] AuraTwilight: "Please just...stay home today."
[6:51 PM] Redshirt Army: Homura, why... oh.
[6:51 PM] Redshirt Army: oh no.
[6:51 PM] Sabrina: March 16th, 2011 rolls around
[6:51 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina wakes up with a sense of dread
[6:51 PM] Sabrina: Goes to check on Homura
[6:51 PM] Redshirt Army: Mombrina's gotta have been anticipating some potential issues on that day
[6:52 PM] Sabrina: And sees Homura suddenly has a soul gem, and is staring at the calendar without her braids in

[6:52 PM] AuraTwilight: i think it's worse if she still has her braids
[6:52 PM] Sabrina: Nah
[6:52 PM] Onmar: "How long has it been?"
[6:52 PM] Sabrina: No-braids is worse
[6:52 PM] Sabrina: Because it means she's been looping for that long
[6:52 PM] cmwatford: I think we'd just die.

[6:52 PM] AuraTwilight: No-braids is "No one ever listens to me about the future."
[6:52 PM] AuraTwilight: But we did.
[6:52 PM] Sabrina: And Sabrina still hasn't fixed it
[6:52 PM] AppleTank: I'm torn between the waf and absoloute terror

[6:52 PM] Redshirt Army: do not abandon daughteru

[6:53 PM] Sabrina: No, no-braids is "I can't rely on anyone"
[6:53 PM] Sabrina: That is what makes it a punch in the gut
[6:53 PM] AuraTwilight: We keep that little part of her innocence alive, and that makes it worse because we keep her from shutting herself entirely up to cope.
[6:53 PM] AuraTwilight: I mean I can swing either or, I just wanna give braidsmura more screentime in the loops.

[6:54 PM] Sabrina:
[Sabrina] *sees that and looks horrified* "Homura... I'm so sorry."
[Homura] *tired and vaguely annoyed* "I know."

[6:54 PM] Redshirt Army: Honestly I don't think Homura would really ever have braids in that TL
[6:54 PM] Redshirt Army: no orphanage means more self confidence
[6:54 PM] AuraTwilight: another thing is Homura loses the braids and glasses to try to fit Madoka's advice of being cool, on a small level.
[6:54 PM] AuraTwilight: oh
[6:54 PM] AuraTwilight: oh guys better idea
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: she has a different hair style or hair deco due to our influence
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: on that day
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: she puts it away in a drawer.
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: Or we can't find it because she put it in her shield or something.
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: oh god you know what
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: take this to its logical conclusion
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: and eventually in one timeline Oriko tries to kill her fucking adoptive mom
[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: because Mombrina is the center of the loop
[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: and Homura can't just kill Oriko every loop after because they're sisters.
[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: They're sisters and Oriko is her first friend.

[6:56 PM] AppleTank: >screaming

[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: and Oriko doesn't just try to stab us in bed the night she contracts or whatever
[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: she has to really steel herself
[6:57 PM] AuraTwilight: like she takes weeks to work up the nerve

[6:56 PM] Redshirt Army: WPN must be a tremendous PiTA in that timeline, like, 50x regular WPN

[6:57 PM] AppleTank: aura y

[6:57 PM] AuraTwilight: "Something wrong, Oriko?" "No, I.... I just really appreciate your cooking."
[6:57 PM] AuraTwilight: "I wanted to pace myself and enjoy it."

[6:57 PM] Sabrina: Sorry, no
[6:57 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina would be aware that this shit might happen

[6:58 PM] Redshirt Army: Plus, hopeful tone
[6:58 PM] Redshirt Army: 5+ years of science prep
[6:58 PM] Redshirt Army: And social prep too

[6:58 PM] AuraTwilight: okay but what if Mombrina is just
[6:58 PM] AuraTwilight: eyeing Madoka hard
[6:58 PM] AuraTwilight: and doesn't realize she fucks up the loops to be about her?

[6:58 PM] AppleTank: wait, why can't we get homu to time travel us?

[6:58 PM] Redshirt Army: Nah
[6:58 PM] Redshirt Army: Like, timeline one
[6:59 PM] Redshirt Army: Madoka has no potential spike, nothing happens on that date

[6:59 PM] AuraTwilight: also how are we sensing potential aren't we muggle mombrina?
[7:00 PM] AuraTwilight: with meta-awareness screwery
[7:00 PM] Sabrina: No?
[7:00 PM] Redshirt Army: I was assuming vanilla PMAS brina
[7:00 PM] Sabrina: Yeah
[7:00 PM] Redshirt Army: why would we be a muggle?
[7:00 PM] Sabrina: Because Aura.
[7:00 PM] Sabrina: :stuck_out_tongue:

[7:00 PM] AuraTwilight: I thought a large part of this premise was "Muggle parent Sabrina who's still meta-aware."
[7:00 PM] Sabrina: No.
[7:00 PM] AuraTwilight: That's what we were originally discussing before we specifically made it Sabrina.

[7:00 PM] Redshirt Army: Uh
[7:00 PM] Redshirt Army: No?
[7:01 PM] Redshirt Army: I'm the one who started it
[7:01 PM] Redshirt Army: And it was originally "PMPS but 30 years ago"

[7:01 PM] Onmar: because with magic and 5 years Sabrina just roflstomps
why would Homu even loop if Brina's gonna destroy walp and whatever else with her mindblowingly super scienced magical powers and that of her super friends

[7:03 PM] AuraTwilight: and if we have all our powers and can act to prevent everyone's tragedies before they become superpowered children with our adult authority a lot of Sabrina's social gravitas shifts significantly.
[7:04 PM] AuraTwilight: the context of "Trust me" shifts radically.

[7:04 PM] Sabrina:
[6:38 PM] Sabrina: So Mami is the newbie magical girl
[6:38 PM] Onmar: why, have Mami and Sabrina crossover into different timelines :V
[6:39 PM] Sabrina: With Sabrina as the veteran meguca holding down the city
[6:39 PM] Redshirt Army: Sabrina mentoring mami would be hnnng
[6:39 PM] AuraTwilight: also Sabrina could still adopt Homura
[6:39 PM] Redshirt Army: "But... what can I really do with ribbons? Your magic is so much stronger..."
[7:04 PM] Sabrina: You specifically responded to it
[7:04 PM] Sabrina: sooooo
[7:04 PM] AuraTwilight: Yea I responded to MomSabrina
[7:04 PM] AuraTwilight: I was clinging to the personality of Sabrina and not Sabrina as superpowered but an adult

[7:05 PM] Onmar: yeah but someone said something about magical gods and I felt the consensus was that'd make the story boring in some contexts
Homu looping in kind of requires Brina can't roflstomp everything forever
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: Not in the slightest
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: It just requires that Sabrina not be enough
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: That was, in fact, the point of me bringing it up

[7:05 PM] Onmar: yeah but someone said something about magical gods and I felt the consensus was that'd make the story boring in some contexts
Homu looping in kind of requires Brina can't roflstomp everything forever
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: Not in the slightest
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: It just requires that Sabrina not be enough
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: That was, in fact, the point of me bringing it up

[7:06 PM] AuraTwilight: I mean part of why I made the Misato comparison is that Misato is not an Eva Pilot, etc.
[7:06 PM] AuraTwilight: so "what if Misato's basic role but actually effective"?

[7:07 PM] Sabrina: Walpurgisnacht
[7:07 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina has anime-mom hair
[7:07 PM] Sabrina: She is doomed
[7:07 PM] Sabrina: :V
[7:07 PM] AuraTwilight: Sabrina is too meta-aware to ever wear anime mom hair, come on now(edited)
[7:07 PM] Sabrina: Lies

[7:07 PM] Onmar: she's too meta aware and daring to not do it

[7:08 PM] AuraTwilight: You don't fuck with that side braid ponytail bullshit okay
[7:08 PM] AuraTwilight: Griefbending has limits

[7:10 PM] AppleTank: if it was a quest the votors would panic vote to switch to a ponytail
[7:11 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina stops being a quest protag when she turns 18, to maintain "Adults are Useless"
[7:11 PM] Sabrina: :V
[7:11 PM] AppleTank: fak

[7:11 PM] AuraTwilight: Anyway I kinda want "Meta-aware muggle parent averts the tragedies of PMMM masterfully using only the power of being an Extremely good parents"
[7:11 PM] Sabrina: Okay
[7:11 PM] AuraTwilight: >Miho Quest when
[7:11 PM] Sabrina: Write it.
[7:11 PM] AuraTwilight: I might.
[7:11 PM] Sabrina: Subject SV to it.
[7:11 PM] AuraTwilight: I'm putting it in my ideas folder right now.

[7:12 PM] Yvonne: Doomed Anime Brina? @redshirt Army(edited)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/266536803815784448/431274800242098178/DLFbNDQX0AEfjKP.jpg

[7:27 PM] AppleTank: and also Mini Mami aaaaaaaaaa
[7:28 PM] cmwatford:

[7:28 PM] AppleTank: >heart attack
[7:29 PM] cmwatford: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/66/a9/a766a938d4d33e9a964dac05ab2d5add.png

[7:46 PM] Sabrina: snickers
[7:47 PM] Sabrina: I'm now imagining the reverse of what we'd been talking about before
[7:47 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina shows up ten years earlier... at age five.

[7:48 PM] AppleTank: Would that really change much, tho? Age hasn't really stopped what we want to do, though people may take us less seriously
[7:48 PM] Sabrina:
Sabrina looks down at her childish form and frowns, then pouts adorably.

"This is going to be a real pain. *No one* will take me seriously now."

[7:48 PM] AuraTwilight: "Tatsuya, listen to me. No, I don't want your animal crackers-oh fine I'll take a giraffe-look listen your Big Sis Homura is literally Satan."
[7:48 PM] AuraTwilight: "We have to do something."
[7:49 PM] AuraTwilight: five-years-later kindergartener Sabrina tries to team up with Tatsuya to solve post-Rebellion
[7:50 PM] AuraTwilight: "Alright you're a nigh-omnipotent griefbender. What's he do?" "Nothing, I just think he's neat."

[7:50 PM] Sabrina:
"Kirika. Tell me you're joking."

"Sorry, but my anti-magic isn't doing anything to it. Whatever that girl did, there's no magic keeping you like that."
[7:50 PM] Onmar: "Homura I need to stay in stopped time for ten years."

"..."

"Pretty please?"
[7:51 PM] Sabrina: on the bright side, she's gotten some practice in at dealing with being small and adorable, via chibis
[7:52 PM] Sabrina: Just that it'd take time for Sabrina to actually age back up
[7:52 PM] Sabrina: Even if it's a year per day
[7:53 PM] Sabrina: That's a week and a half of growing up
[7:53 PM] Sabrina: (That assumes it's possible for Sabrina to ever grow up, even a little. :V )

[7:55 PM] Onmar: "Of course I grow, I'm a human being (I'm sure!), it's natural that I grow over t-"

Mami: "You're perfect as you are!"

Sabrina: "I'm perfect as I am."

stops aging
[7:56 PM] Onmar: (for a while at least :V)

[7:58 PM] Sabrina: Homura would just be nonplussed
[7:58 PM] Sabrina: And awkward.

[7:59 PM] AuraTwilight: Homura is holding babybrina at arms length
[7:59 PM] Sabrina: psht
[7:59 PM] AuraTwilight: and starts humming louder and louder until she's yelling for Mami
[7:59 PM] Sabrina: She wouldn't even make contact

[8:00 PM] AppleTank: We're gonna latch onto her leg
[8:00 PM] Sabrina: That, sure
[8:00 PM] Sabrina: But Homura initiating the contact?
[8:00 PM] Sabrina: Nah
[8:01 PM] AuraTwilight: I was imagining someone just shoved Brina into her arms and Homura froze.

[8:00 PM] Yvonne: Bah, alright. So, thoughts on Doka's reaction?
[8:00 PM] cmwatford: She never lets go.
[8:01 PM] cmwatford: ever

[8:00 PM] Sabrina: Nonplussed
[8:01 PM] Sabrina: And then comments about how adorable Sabrina is
[8:01 PM] AppleTank: cheek rubbing, then putting us on chairs

[8:01 PM] Onmar: apropos of nothing, I don't think Madoka has witnessed Chibi Brina and we need to correct that
[8:02 PM] cmwatford: We'll never get it back. Doka's potential alone will sustain it.
[8:04 PM] Onmar: "Oh... oh, that's cute Sabrina. Really!"

"Madoka are you shaking?"

"Of course not! Why would I, I mean, it's not like that's the second cutest thing I've ever seen..."

"Madoka your eyes are golden, everyone can see them."

"I figured I'd wear contacts, today."

"Madoka can you hide your wings better? That's impolite with so many passerbys."
[11:42 PM] All Witches' Night: "Of course not! Why would I, I mean, it's not like that's the second cutest thing I've ever seen..."
Sabrina: "Wait, what was the cutest?"
Madoka: glances at Homura and blushes "Umm..."


woo, useless contributions
Carry on.
 
Appletank said:
woo, useless contributions
Carry on.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
... Wow. Particularly the adopted Homura and Oriko parts... I both desperately want this to be written, but fear my heart can't take it.

EDIT: Imagine all the little moments of Mombrina. Breakfasts and dinners. Hair brushing and school shopping. Teasing and laughing, or holding them when they need. It warms my heart, and chills it with thoughts of it all going wrong...
 
Last edited:
Appletank said:
So, a few days the peeps and I were wondering: What if Sabrina appeared about 5-10 years before the quest (Magic or no)

We concocted several scenarios full of fluff and gut punching

AuraTwilight: if Sabrina were older I'd try to set her up with Kazuko, possibly.
"So, men always disappoint you, huh?"
"Baby, I have no taste buds due to being a quest protagonist."
"I'll eat any eggs you like."

Redshirt Army: PMPS style loop... but we show up like 30 years earlier

AuraTwilight: it turns out dating Kazuko is a minmaxer's delight because she creates infinite grief for us.

Redshirt Army: wow
oh man I love it
so many OCs

AuraTwilight: "Okay, first thing's first, stop Homura from going to that fucking orphanage."
I think he means the idea of "meta-aware adult tries to stop the loops before they start."
Like "Hey, violin kid. Take the bus today."

Redshirt Army: also because I don't want to be beholden to trying to keep the ending canonical with the start of PMMM. Like, if doesn't have to be sabrina

[6:25 PM] AuraTwilight: bonus omake:
[6:25 PM] AuraTwilight: "Hey Junko, let Madoka say fuck."
[6:26 PM] AuraTwilight: "your daughteru is literally 2 pure 4 earth, teach her swears or something."
calls social services on the Sakuras. Pathos moment where you're really heartbroken about separating Kyoko and Momo from their parents but ultimately it has to be done to keep them all from dying and you don't have superpowers.
I kind of like the idea of Meta-aware Adult having no superpowers
[6:28 PM] AuraTwilight: and like he survives multiple Meguca fights as a target or bystander because he's a socially responsible and emotionally mature adult who can talk to them about their problems and be a functional therapist.
[6:28 PM] AuraTwilight: Because he used his foreknowledge and planned his life around that career.
[6:28 PM] AuraTwilight: oh my god this is awesome.
Puella Magi Meta-aware Muggle Therapist Magica
and also he can be like the old man from Alice & Zouroku and be the stern father figure to all these stupid magical anime girls
fucking 70 year old man is suddenly harassed by reality-warping 10 year old girls of WMD-level mass destruction and he just bops them on the head and tells them to behave, and mind their manners. Look at how your shenanigans inconvenienced all these people and made a scene.

] AuraTwilight: Guca Merlin has the problem of "Is probably grossly overpowered and thus boring.""

[6:31 PM] Redshirt Army: Even Sabrina is kind of pushing it
[6:31 PM] Redshirt Army: since 30 years is a bit too much lead time

Redshirt Army: but I explicitly wanted it to be "the parents generation"

AuraTwilight: in a world where Junko and Kazuko have another old school friend who knows a lot of fucking shit.

[6:33 PM] AuraTwilight: and like you can give them similar lead-ins to the plot.
[6:33 PM] AuraTwilight: Sayaka and Madoka are like "Uncle/Aunt whatever? How do you know about Kyubey?"
[6:33 PM] AuraTwilight: like a lot of the loop is personal to them.

[6:34 PM] Redshirt Army: well I mean
[6:34 PM] Redshirt Army: In this timeline
[6:34 PM] Redshirt Army: I'm pretty sure Homura just gets adopted
[6:34 PM] Sabrina: If it was Sabrina? Absolutely

[6:34 PM] AuraTwilight: "Look. I know. I don't know how I know. And I guess in most worlds I...don't exist? I mean I have parents and a life and shit, I guess quantum'sa bitch. But look... Madoka is my niece. I've known her all her life. I know her more than even you, probably. And I'll help you."

[6:34 PM] Redshirt Army: yeah, Homura gets adopted
[6:35 PM] AuraTwilight: Homura hella gets adopted
[6:35 PM] Redshirt Army: might be interesting if she loops in anyway
[6:35 PM] AuraTwilight: Mami too
[6:35 PM] AuraTwilight: cue all those Mami/Homura roommate goodnesses from that one semi-official comic

[6:35 PM] AuraTwilight: "I'm starting an orphanage for magical childre-" Homura: "Stop it."
[6:36 PM] Redshirt Army: Kyouko's family doesn't die
[6:36 PM] AuraTwilight: I mean yea, that's true
[6:36 PM] Sabrina: Kyouko is just allowed to crash "however often you need"

[6:36 PM] Redshirt Army: prevent car accident
[6:36 PM] AuraTwilight: Yea Mami is probably preventable.

[6:36 PM] Sabrina: I think the best time to throw Sabrina in
[6:36 PM] AuraTwilight: I feel like Mami might contract under different circumstances if not for that.
[6:37 PM] Sabrina: Would be 5-10 years before canon

[6:37 PM] Onmar: "This is a totally normal orphanage for totally magical children- shit! I mean very normal children!"

"... Why are they all girls and why do they all seem to be playing with the same invisible friend/pet?"

"Because that's a thing normal kids d- SHIT KYUUBEY GET THE FUCK OUT!"

[6:37 PM] AuraTwilight: like if Mami learns about magic she's gonna contract no matter what you do to stop her.
[6:37 PM] AuraTwilight: She's too heroic.

[6:37 PM] Sabrina: if it's 5 years
Then it means Sabrina will be solidly young adult by the time canon approaches

[6:38 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina tries to intervene to save Mami's parents, but isn't able to sit on them 24/7
[6:38 PM] Sabrina: So Mami is the newbie magical girl

[6:39 PM] Sabrina: With Sabrina as the veteran meguca holding down the city
[6:39 PM] Redshirt Army: Sabrina mentoring mami would be hnnng
: "But... what can I really do with ribbons? Your magic is so much stronger..."

[6:39 PM] AuraTwilight: also Sabrina could still adopt Homura
and just be an awesome quirky Nee-san.
[6:39 PM] AuraTwilight: I kinda see adult Sabrina as basically being Misato without all the drinking and dysfunction.
[6:40 PM] AuraTwilight: ...and pedastry.
[6:40 PM] AuraTwilight: Okay so not a whole lot like Misato
[6:40 PM] AuraTwilight: but you know. Quirky young mom surrogate who's basically one of the kids.

[6:40 PM] Redshirt Army: Oh mang
She'd fuck Oriko's family UUUUPPP

[6:40 PM] AuraTwilight: "U-um... Sabrina-san, I don't think you can get drunk on tea... you don't... um..." Rookie Mami ultimate moe

[6:41 PM] AppleTank: >Sabrina glares Mami in the eye as she slides a cup of tea into the microwave
[6:41 PM] Redshirt Army: omg
[6:41 PM] AuraTwilight: imagine Mami having a precocious first crush on Sabrina-nee-san.

[6:41 PM] cmwatford: Shit I'd read that just for the moe.(edited)
[6:41 PM] Sabrina: Kouhai abuse!
[6:41 PM] Redshirt Army: tiny mumi
[6:41 PM] Redshirt Army: glaring up at us
[6:41 PM] Redshirt Army: as she pouts and yoinks the tea out
[6:41 PM] Sabrina: How dare you, AppleTank!

[6:41 PM] AuraTwilight: imagine rookie Mami thinking her ribbon power isn't very good
[6:41 PM] Redshirt Army: yeah
[6:41 PM] AppleTank: I will microwave tea for once in my life dammit
:V

[6:42 PM] AuraTwilight: and she starts to progress when she weaves an extravagant gift for Sabrina-san
[6:42 PM] AuraTwilight: She visualizes the smile she wants Sabrina-san to make
[6:42 PM] AuraTwilight: and the ribbons become a perfect golden stuffed bear or something
[6:42 PM] AuraTwilight: and Mami's face glows.

[6:42 PM] Redshirt Army: we show her the 4D trick
[6:42 PM] AppleTank: Oooo, that gets me right in the hnng
[6:42 PM] Sabrina: This is a neat idea.
[6:42 PM] AuraTwilight: I think I just made this AU mandatory.

[6:43 PM] AuraTwilight: So I shouldn't hunt Shinbo like a wild dog?
[6:43 PM] AuraTwilight: I mean I need to do that anyway to get movie 4 to hurry up but
[6:43 PM] Redshirt Army: anyway tiny Oriko would receive hugs

[6:44 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina adopts Oriko and Homura and they become fast friends.
[6:44 PM] AuraTwilight: Sabrina-nee-san just walks into the Mikuni house, picks up Oriko, and walks out the door without a word
[6:44 PM] Redshirt Army: Tiny Homura and -
[6:44 PM] Redshirt Army: Yes
[6:44 PM] Redshirt Army: Oriko

[6:44 PM] AuraTwilight: "This is kidnapping, Miss Sabrina." "Yea well fuck your family."
[6:44 PM] AuraTwilight: Kirika still falls in love and dates
[6:45 PM] AuraTwilight: the best part about Oriko and Homura being friends as children
[6:45 PM] AuraTwilight: is that Homura and Madoka is pretty much a cosmic law of the universe of shipping...
[6:45 PM] AuraTwilight: but it'll be way more healthy since she won't be Homura's entire reason to live.
[6:46 PM] AuraTwilight: Okay but imagine Oriko lightly teasing her sister Homura over her new crush.
[6:46 PM] AuraTwilight: and then Homura, all braids and glasses, frets and hmus and blushes, but manages to return a teasing jab about "This Kure-san"
[6:46 PM] Onmar: you think Oriko can do light teasing?

[6:46 PM] Redshirt Army: Hmm. Does Homura loop in, or do we stick to the earlier waff? Because that could get darkish fast.
[6:46 PM] AuraTwilight: honestly, if you wanna punch the readers right in the dick?
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: We adopt Homura, take care of her
[6:47 PM] Redshirt Army: I think this moemura would be less moe
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: and then right when the loops start
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: our Homura is overwritten
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: That's what an asshole author would do.
[6:47 PM] Redshirt Army: yeah that's what I Was questioning
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: and it'd hit hard.
[6:47 PM] AuraTwilight: god I'd fucking kill someone.

[6:47 PM] Sabrina: No, the idea is
[6:48 PM] Sabrina: This timeline's Homura has been looping
[6:48 PM] Sabrina: The idea is that even with Sabrina being there and trying to fix things
[6:48 PM] Sabrina: Homura still winds up having a reason to wish to go back
[6:49 PM] Sabrina: And does so over and over
[6:49 PM] Sabrina: But that Sabrina's presence didn't actually fix anything
[6:49 PM] AuraTwilight: Fuck you oh my god

[6:49 PM] AuraTwilight: Like our Homura just suddenly bawls her eyes out one morning
[6:49 PM] AuraTwilight: and withdraws from Sabrina
[6:49 PM] Sabrina: And that's the worst one I could think of
[6:49 PM] Sabrina: "You didn't fix anything."

[6:50 PM] AuraTwilight: what if she wished to go back because of you?
[6:50 PM] Sabrina: Then congrats, you didn't fix anything
[6:50 PM] AuraTwilight: Muggle Chirstmas Cake Mom Sabrina dies sheltering her children from the storm or something

[6:50 PM] Redshirt Army: how do you reassure your (esentially) daughter, when you know you must have tried over and over and over to make it work and never succeeded , after making the same reassurances?
[6:51 PM] AuraTwilight: imagine your cute braids daughteru suddenly just hugging you and stopping you from leaving for work
[6:51 PM] AuraTwilight: "Don't go to work today."
[6:51 PM] AuraTwilight: "Please just...stay home today."
[6:51 PM] Redshirt Army: Homura, why... oh.
[6:51 PM] Redshirt Army: oh no.
[6:51 PM] Sabrina: March 16th, 2011 rolls around
[6:51 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina wakes up with a sense of dread
[6:51 PM] Sabrina: Goes to check on Homura
[6:51 PM] Redshirt Army: Mombrina's gotta have been anticipating some potential issues on that day
[6:52 PM] Sabrina: And sees Homura suddenly has a soul gem, and is staring at the calendar without her braids in

[6:52 PM] AuraTwilight: i think it's worse if she still has her braids
[6:52 PM] Sabrina: Nah
[6:52 PM] Onmar: "How long has it been?"
[6:52 PM] Sabrina: No-braids is worse
[6:52 PM] Sabrina: Because it means she's been looping for that long
[6:52 PM] cmwatford: I think we'd just die.

[6:52 PM] AuraTwilight: No-braids is "No one ever listens to me about the future."
[6:52 PM] AuraTwilight: But we did.
[6:52 PM] Sabrina: And Sabrina still hasn't fixed it
[6:52 PM] AppleTank: I'm torn between the waf and absoloute terror

[6:52 PM] Redshirt Army: do not abandon daughteru

[6:53 PM] Sabrina: No, no-braids is "I can't rely on anyone"
[6:53 PM] Sabrina: That is what makes it a punch in the gut
[6:53 PM] AuraTwilight: We keep that little part of her innocence alive, and that makes it worse because we keep her from shutting herself entirely up to cope.
[6:53 PM] AuraTwilight: I mean I can swing either or, I just wanna give braidsmura more screentime in the loops.

[6:54 PM] Sabrina:
[Sabrina] *sees that and looks horrified* "Homura... I'm so sorry."
[Homura] *tired and vaguely annoyed* "I know."

[6:54 PM] Redshirt Army: Honestly I don't think Homura would really ever have braids in that TL
[6:54 PM] Redshirt Army: no orphanage means more self confidence
[6:54 PM] AuraTwilight: another thing is Homura loses the braids and glasses to try to fit Madoka's advice of being cool, on a small level.
[6:54 PM] AuraTwilight: oh
[6:54 PM] AuraTwilight: oh guys better idea
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: she has a different hair style or hair deco due to our influence
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: on that day
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: she puts it away in a drawer.
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: Or we can't find it because she put it in her shield or something.
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: oh god you know what
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: take this to its logical conclusion
[6:55 PM] AuraTwilight: and eventually in one timeline Oriko tries to kill her fucking adoptive mom
[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: because Mombrina is the center of the loop
[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: and Homura can't just kill Oriko every loop after because they're sisters.
[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: They're sisters and Oriko is her first friend.

[6:56 PM] AppleTank: >screaming

[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: and Oriko doesn't just try to stab us in bed the night she contracts or whatever
[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: she has to really steel herself
[6:57 PM] AuraTwilight: like she takes weeks to work up the nerve

[6:56 PM] Redshirt Army: WPN must be a tremendous PiTA in that timeline, like, 50x regular WPN

[6:57 PM] AppleTank: aura y

[6:57 PM] AuraTwilight: "Something wrong, Oriko?" "No, I.... I just really appreciate your cooking."
[6:57 PM] AuraTwilight: "I wanted to pace myself and enjoy it."

[6:57 PM] Sabrina: Sorry, no
[6:57 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina would be aware that this shit might happen

[6:58 PM] Redshirt Army: Plus, hopeful tone
[6:58 PM] Redshirt Army: 5+ years of science prep
[6:58 PM] Redshirt Army: And social prep too

[6:58 PM] AuraTwilight: okay but what if Mombrina is just
[6:58 PM] AuraTwilight: eyeing Madoka hard
[6:58 PM] AuraTwilight: and doesn't realize she fucks up the loops to be about her?

[6:58 PM] AppleTank: wait, why can't we get homu to time travel us?

[6:58 PM] Redshirt Army: Nah
[6:58 PM] Redshirt Army: Like, timeline one
[6:59 PM] Redshirt Army: Madoka has no potential spike, nothing happens on that date

[6:59 PM] AuraTwilight: also how are we sensing potential aren't we muggle mombrina?
[7:00 PM] AuraTwilight: with meta-awareness screwery
[7:00 PM] Sabrina: No?
[7:00 PM] Redshirt Army: I was assuming vanilla PMAS brina
[7:00 PM] Sabrina: Yeah
[7:00 PM] Redshirt Army: why would we be a muggle?
[7:00 PM] Sabrina: Because Aura.
[7:00 PM] Sabrina: :stuck_out_tongue:

[7:00 PM] AuraTwilight: I thought a large part of this premise was "Muggle parent Sabrina who's still meta-aware."
[7:00 PM] Sabrina: No.
[7:00 PM] AuraTwilight: That's what we were originally discussing before we specifically made it Sabrina.

[7:00 PM] Redshirt Army: Uh
[7:00 PM] Redshirt Army: No?
[7:01 PM] Redshirt Army: I'm the one who started it
[7:01 PM] Redshirt Army: And it was originally "PMPS but 30 years ago"

[7:01 PM] Onmar: because with magic and 5 years Sabrina just roflstomps
why would Homu even loop if Brina's gonna destroy walp and whatever else with her mindblowingly super scienced magical powers and that of her super friends

[7:03 PM] AuraTwilight: and if we have all our powers and can act to prevent everyone's tragedies before they become superpowered children with our adult authority a lot of Sabrina's social gravitas shifts significantly.
[7:04 PM] AuraTwilight: the context of "Trust me" shifts radically.

[7:04 PM] Sabrina:
[6:38 PM] Sabrina: So Mami is the newbie magical girl
[6:38 PM] Onmar: why, have Mami and Sabrina crossover into different timelines :V
[6:39 PM] Sabrina: With Sabrina as the veteran meguca holding down the city
[6:39 PM] Redshirt Army: Sabrina mentoring mami would be hnnng
[6:39 PM] AuraTwilight: also Sabrina could still adopt Homura
[6:39 PM] Redshirt Army: "But... what can I really do with ribbons? Your magic is so much stronger..."
[7:04 PM] Sabrina: You specifically responded to it
[7:04 PM] Sabrina: sooooo
[7:04 PM] AuraTwilight: Yea I responded to MomSabrina
[7:04 PM] AuraTwilight: I was clinging to the personality of Sabrina and not Sabrina as superpowered but an adult

[7:05 PM] Onmar: yeah but someone said something about magical gods and I felt the consensus was that'd make the story boring in some contexts
Homu looping in kind of requires Brina can't roflstomp everything forever
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: Not in the slightest
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: It just requires that Sabrina not be enough
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: That was, in fact, the point of me bringing it up

[7:05 PM] Onmar: yeah but someone said something about magical gods and I felt the consensus was that'd make the story boring in some contexts
Homu looping in kind of requires Brina can't roflstomp everything forever
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: Not in the slightest
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: It just requires that Sabrina not be enough
[7:05 PM] Sabrina: That was, in fact, the point of me bringing it up

[7:06 PM] AuraTwilight: I mean part of why I made the Misato comparison is that Misato is not an Eva Pilot, etc.
[7:06 PM] AuraTwilight: so "what if Misato's basic role but actually effective"?

[7:07 PM] Sabrina: Walpurgisnacht
[7:07 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina has anime-mom hair
[7:07 PM] Sabrina: She is doomed
[7:07 PM] Sabrina: :V
[7:07 PM] AuraTwilight: Sabrina is too meta-aware to ever wear anime mom hair, come on now(edited)
[7:07 PM] Sabrina: Lies

[7:07 PM] Onmar: she's too meta aware and daring to not do it

[7:08 PM] AuraTwilight: You don't fuck with that side braid ponytail bullshit okay
[7:08 PM] AuraTwilight: Griefbending has limits

[7:10 PM] AppleTank: if it was a quest the votors would panic vote to switch to a ponytail
[7:11 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina stops being a quest protag when she turns 18, to maintain "Adults are Useless"
[7:11 PM] Sabrina: :V
[7:11 PM] AppleTank: fak

[7:11 PM] AuraTwilight: Anyway I kinda want "Meta-aware muggle parent averts the tragedies of PMMM masterfully using only the power of being an Extremely good parents"
[7:11 PM] Sabrina: Okay
[7:11 PM] AuraTwilight: >Miho Quest when
[7:11 PM] Sabrina: Write it.
[7:11 PM] AuraTwilight: I might.
[7:11 PM] Sabrina: Subject SV to it.
[7:11 PM] AuraTwilight: I'm putting it in my ideas folder right now.

[7:12 PM] Yvonne: Doomed Anime Brina? @redshirt Army(edited)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/266536803815784448/431274800242098178/DLFbNDQX0AEfjKP.jpg

[7:27 PM] AppleTank: and also Mini Mami aaaaaaaaaa
[7:28 PM] cmwatford:

[7:28 PM] AppleTank: >heart attack
[7:29 PM] cmwatford: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a7/66/a9/a766a938d4d33e9a964dac05ab2d5add.png

[7:46 PM] Sabrina: snickers
[7:47 PM] Sabrina: I'm now imagining the reverse of what we'd been talking about before
[7:47 PM] Sabrina: Sabrina shows up ten years earlier... at age five.

[7:48 PM] AppleTank: Would that really change much, tho? Age hasn't really stopped what we want to do, though people may take us less seriously
[7:48 PM] Sabrina:
Sabrina looks down at her childish form and frowns, then pouts adorably.

"This is going to be a real pain. *No one* will take me seriously now."

[7:48 PM] AuraTwilight: "Tatsuya, listen to me. No, I don't want your animal crackers-oh fine I'll take a giraffe-look listen your Big Sis Homura is literally Satan."
[7:48 PM] AuraTwilight: "We have to do something."
[7:49 PM] AuraTwilight: five-years-later kindergartener Sabrina tries to team up with Tatsuya to solve post-Rebellion
[7:50 PM] AuraTwilight: "Alright you're a nigh-omnipotent griefbender. What's he do?" "Nothing, I just think he's neat."

[7:50 PM] Sabrina:
"Kirika. Tell me you're joking."

"Sorry, but my anti-magic isn't doing anything to it. Whatever that girl did, there's no magic keeping you like that."
[7:50 PM] Onmar: "Homura I need to stay in stopped time for ten years."

"..."

"Pretty please?"
[7:51 PM] Sabrina: on the bright side, she's gotten some practice in at dealing with being small and adorable, via chibis
[7:52 PM] Sabrina: Just that it'd take time for Sabrina to actually age back up
[7:52 PM] Sabrina: Even if it's a year per day
[7:53 PM] Sabrina: That's a week and a half of growing up
[7:53 PM] Sabrina: (That assumes it's possible for Sabrina to ever grow up, even a little. :V )

[7:55 PM] Onmar: "Of course I grow, I'm a human being (I'm sure!), it's natural that I grow over t-"

Mami: "You're perfect as you are!"

Sabrina: "I'm perfect as I am."

stops aging
[7:56 PM] Onmar: (for a while at least :V)

[7:58 PM] Sabrina: Homura would just be nonplussed
[7:58 PM] Sabrina: And awkward.

[7:59 PM] AuraTwilight: Homura is holding babybrina at arms length
[7:59 PM] Sabrina: psht
[7:59 PM] AuraTwilight: and starts humming louder and louder until she's yelling for Mami
[7:59 PM] Sabrina: She wouldn't even make contact

[8:00 PM] AppleTank: We're gonna latch onto her leg
[8:00 PM] Sabrina: That, sure
[8:00 PM] Sabrina: But Homura initiating the contact?
[8:00 PM] Sabrina: Nah
[8:01 PM] AuraTwilight: I was imagining someone just shoved Brina into her arms and Homura froze.

[8:00 PM] Yvonne: Bah, alright. So, thoughts on Doka's reaction?
[8:00 PM] cmwatford: She never lets go.
[8:01 PM] cmwatford: ever

[8:00 PM] Sabrina: Nonplussed
[8:01 PM] Sabrina: And then comments about how adorable Sabrina is
[8:01 PM] AppleTank: cheek rubbing, then putting us on chairs

[8:01 PM] Onmar: apropos of nothing, I don't think Madoka has witnessed Chibi Brina and we need to correct that
[8:02 PM] cmwatford: We'll never get it back. Doka's potential alone will sustain it.
[8:04 PM] Onmar: "Oh... oh, that's cute Sabrina. Really!"

"Madoka are you shaking?"

"Of course not! Why would I, I mean, it's not like that's the second cutest thing I've ever seen..."

"Madoka your eyes are golden, everyone can see them."

"I figured I'd wear contacts, today."

"Madoka can you hide your wings better? That's impolite with so many passerbys."
[11:42 PM] All Witches' Night: "Of course not! Why would I, I mean, it's not like that's the second cutest thing I've ever seen..."
Sabrina: "Wait, what was the cutest?"
Madoka: glances at Homura and blushes "Umm..."


woo, useless contributions
Carry on.
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Hey, nice dev cycle! I think you need to fund the heck out of it. In fact, let me add two things for The Interest of All.

> Memory as a resource mechanic! In the best Cyberpunk tradition, our protag must maintain drops, safe houses and tech to upload and restore their own memory.
Kyuubey is invisible and insensible to muggles, and this applies to our well-meaning adult, no matter how sure they are of its existence. Furthermore, being in proximity to magic can get your brain a free trip to the spa if they catch you. What to do? Version tracking just got real.

> If one were to import another adult character for color and interaction, Chigusa Sakai should be on the shortlist. She doesn't need to be in the system to be awesome.
 
Kaizuki said:
lead her through it repeatedly,
[X] Continuous cleanse.

[X] Tone: absolute.
[X] If she failed, if she only ever hurt Madoka, then why is Madoka currently safe and happy?
-[X] Was there ever a previous timeline when Madoka was safe and happy?
--[X] And if not, how can it possibly be the case that Homura is not directly responsible for that?
[X] Homura is stuck in a logical fallacy. Everything else can come later. Stick to empathyBrina and lead her through it repeatedly, until something sticks or there's a different result: in this timeline Madoka is happy and safe, and she will remain that way beyond WPN. In every other timeline, Madoka was not happy and safe beyond WPN. Homura cannot have only hurt Madoka because this timeline wouldn't exist without her actions, and in this timeline Madoka isn't and will not be suffering. You recognize that you haven't proved that yet -- WPN still needs to die -- but she said it herself: this timeline has results. You still don't agree that Homura has hurt Madoka up to this point, and you never will, but Homura must admit that if WPN is defeated in this timeline and Madoka's happiness and safety are preserved, it will be a fact that Homura has not only hurt Madoka, and it will be a fact that Homura has not only failed.



And if she says anything about not having done anything for Madoka in this timeline, we raise our eyebrow and point this out, because we didn't even exist when that would have happened.
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This is making me pay attention. This is one of the key points.

May I suggest refining the delivery?

While we are in full contact, do the repeating statements first. Not "absolute" here. Soothing, natural low and SAFE voice. Suggestions - "Madoka is happy and safe right now," "You warned her," "Your promise to her worked," "Mami fears Kyuubey," "Homura has enough time to guard Madoka from Kyuubey" "You saved Madoka," "The Incubators won by cheating, but not anymore" "You are going to keep saving Madoka until she's too old to contract" Longer arguments can proceed as she comes up to speed. We have a ton of those over the last three weeks. Using leading questions and such is a bit harder ATM, but perhaps next update?

@Kaizuki
There is another goal I think you could add on? We should be trying to consider how to get Homura to share her pain more often. We need to make that a "system she can control," not just a "promise to help you." Her utilization will be too little otherwise, her self-care is rather damaged. Homura is at risk to not reach out, even though she knows she could. Such a plan needs to be interactive with us.

I'd love to have her gather non-specific support from the rest of our friends, but most of all Madoka.

Hey, we're Magical Girls, we can do this! If we want another way to refute her negative self-talk, we could have her see Madoka right now. "You brought her back in time, she isn't hurt now." It's timestop. It probably isn't her first time doing this stalker deal, either. Not sure if Madoka is better as "wallpaper" ATM, use your discretion. We could actually have her meet Madoka for a quick headpat, and then drop her out of timestop when we return.

The further goal involving Madoka in Homura's support achieves is .... Scared Straight.
If Homura wants her to avoid contracting, showing her how awful it makes one feel is a sound idea? Homura might disagree, and we have to stop if she does. This has potential, right?

Proceed towards the Absolute Certainty speech towards the end.

N.B. the last line of the "Low Self Esteem" link. Homura may have less self for us all to esteem in the first place. We need to grow that over time, using mundane socialization. In progress already, mentioning to be complete.

No need to rush to get us there. This is Family Time. If we need to help Homura, I'm fine doing this until August IRL. Seriously, it's her emotional release, and everything hinges on this going well.

If I can do Endless Eight and like it, I can do this too.
 
Appletank said:
[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: and Oriko doesn't just try to stab us in bed the night she contracts or whatever
[6:56 PM] AuraTwilight: she has to really steel herself
[6:57 PM] AuraTwilight: like she takes weeks to work up the nerve

[6:56 PM] Redshirt Army: WPN must be a tremendous PiTA in that timeline, like, 50x regular WPN

[6:57 PM] AppleTank: aura y

[6:57 PM] AuraTwilight: "Something wrong, Oriko?" "No, I.... I just really appreciate your cooking."
[6:57 PM] AuraTwilight: "I wanted to pace myself and enjoy it."
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I love this so much.
 
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