Puella Magi Adfligo Systema
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- puella magi adfligo systema puella magi madoka magica be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist bad decisions dating mami tomoe (tomoe mami) diabolical laughter friendship is the best ship handholding identity crises microwaving tea gets you put in the bad place names are important the body is the fursona of the soul this is not the baked goods thread we don't talk about rionna what could possibly go wrong? who in the world is azure sanfrancisco?
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
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Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
[Q] "Homu I really feel for you and Imma let you finish, but Madoka made one of the best wishes of all time."
-[Q] "Of all time!"
I'm still waiting on @Kaizuki's Promised Path To Victory before weighing in.
[] Comfort Homura. Speak slowly and softly. Help her keep calm. Go at her own pace.
[] Ask Homura to hear you out to the end, even if it hurts. Promise it'll all still work out. Believe in her.
[] WHAT THE KAI SAYS.
I don't disagree with the veB vote, but I want to see what Kai has cooking.
-[Q] "Of all time!"
I'm still waiting on @Kaizuki's Promised Path To Victory before weighing in.
[] Comfort Homura. Speak slowly and softly. Help her keep calm. Go at her own pace.
[] Ask Homura to hear you out to the end, even if it hurts. Promise it'll all still work out. Believe in her.
[] WHAT THE KAI SAYS.
I don't disagree with the veB vote, but I want to see what Kai has cooking.
- Location
- Illinois
[Q] "Homu I really feel for you and Imma let you finish, but Madoka made one of the best wishes of all time."
-[Q] "Of all time!"
I'm still waiting on @Kaizuki's Promised Path To Victory before weighing in.
[] Comfort Homura. Speak slowly and softly. Help her keep calm. Go at her own pace.
[] Ask Homura to hear you out to the end, even if it hurts. Promise it'll all still work out. Believe in her.
[] WHAT THE KAI SAYS.
I don't disagree with the veB vote, but I want to see what Kai has cooking.
Gonna be another several hours on that. Gotta write Prolog "code" and then classes and shit.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Wow. I just had the saddest epiphany mid-sleep. (I mean, it's probably old news, but it's new to me.)
It's Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
As in Gift of the Magi. Two people who each know exactly what the other best needs... but to attain it end up sacrificing the very things that would give those gifts meaning.
Madoka sacrifices her life for Homura, then Homura sacrifices her self for Madoka, and then it all begins again both suffering with nothing gained for the two of them, only greater and grander. Madoka even sacrifices her own existence so that Homura can live on... only for Homura to become everything she hates in order for Madoka to live again.
That's the tragedy at the heart of PMMM.
That's the cycle we need to break.
On the plus side, it also means that, if Madoka's actions last timeline were in any capacity to save herself, then that is a very good sign.
----
Anyways, I agree with Onmur that the best opening here is probably to reassure Homura that Madoka doesn't suffer from those dreams.
It's Puella Magi Madoka Magica.
As in Gift of the Magi. Two people who each know exactly what the other best needs... but to attain it end up sacrificing the very things that would give those gifts meaning.
Madoka sacrifices her life for Homura, then Homura sacrifices her self for Madoka, and then it all begins again both suffering with nothing gained for the two of them, only greater and grander. Madoka even sacrifices her own existence so that Homura can live on... only for Homura to become everything she hates in order for Madoka to live again.
That's the tragedy at the heart of PMMM.
That's the cycle we need to break.
On the plus side, it also means that, if Madoka's actions last timeline were in any capacity to save herself, then that is a very good sign.
----
Anyways, I agree with Onmur that the best opening here is probably to reassure Homura that Madoka doesn't suffer from those dreams.
Now that I think of it, what was Mami's wish and how it ties to ribbons being her signature magic? [/doesn't know that much of PMMM]
- Location
- Sweden
Her wish was to save her own life after a car crash. Apparently the reason she got ribbons was because she wanted to "connect to life"
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Just read recent updates
TLDR: Homura is a mess of neurosis and trauma, and telling her about the "loop bomb" is a horrible, horrible idea.
Her reaction to Madoka dreaming about the previous loops, and attributing all the current successes solely to Sabrina is not an encouraging sign.
TLDR: Homura is a mess of neurosis and trauma, and telling her about the "loop bomb" is a horrible, horrible idea.
Her reaction to Madoka dreaming about the previous loops, and attributing all the current successes solely to Sabrina is not an encouraging sign.
Madou Sutegobana
Autocorrupt has been disabled.
- Location
- Twin Realms Mandala
I would assume such a person should be especially resistant to all forms of life process failures, even decapitation. Even more so than other Magical Girls.
Raiseth
I Find Your Lack of Memes Disturbing
- Location
- Russia
If you're talking about "The Cheesecake Incident", her Soul Gem is explicitly shown to be broken in one of the reeditions.
- Location
- Illinois
Initial vote pending Aura review, looking to post whenever that happens.
May end up consigning current version to blueprint status though, it's a little too narrative (as opposed to describing general actions). If that happens I'll post it anyway for reference and convert it over and then vote the result of that.
May end up consigning current version to blueprint status though, it's a little too narrative (as opposed to describing general actions). If that happens I'll post it anyway for reference and convert it over and then vote the result of that.
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- Location
- Illinois
He totally could. I just...
I don't want to post it without somebody to check that I haven't made any glaring errors.
Is that bad?
If he takes too long I swear I'll just post it.
Iiiiiiiiiii also might be going to the gym and intending to write the kind of supporting commentary for it afterwards...
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Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
He totally could. I just...
I don't want to post it without somebody to check that I haven't made any glaring errors.
Is that bad?
If he takes too long I swear I'll just post it.
Iiiiiiiiiii also might be going to the gym and intending to write the kind of supporting commentary for it afterwards...
I just hate it when important thread stuff happens off thread.
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
It's also partly because my medical issues keep me away-from-browser but not necessarily text messaging for random intervals. Sorry.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
[x] Vebyast
So you know each other in real life? (Forgive me if this was something that was supposed to be really obvious to me, like Kaizuki being your boyfriend or something)
- Location
- Illinois
So, the key objective this vote is to convince Homura that there is good reason to believe that Madoka does not feel hurt by the loops. Note that this is separate from convincing Homura that Madoka feeling that way is reasonable, because that's a separate ball game (although we'll get there).
To this end we aim to convince Homura of two things:
1) That Madoka is capable of expressing a reaction to the average over the events of the loops,
2) That that expression occurs and demonstrates that Madoka does not feel Homura's actions have caused her undesired pain.
In this case we can rely on "not caused undesired pain" as opposed to "not caused pain at all" because the alternative would be for Homura to give up, which... Walpurgisnacht falls, everyone dies.
Now, I think everyone here probably feels that the natural course of action after the end of the last vote is to comfort Homura, to reassure her, then to lay out more evidence, etcetera.
I approve of that in general, but it's not the course I think we should take.
The absolute first thing we should do is drop the conclusion of this post's argument:
We're never going to solve all of Homura's issues in one conversation. It's pretty unlikely that in the tiny span of time that is the immediate conversation, she'll really completely accept anything as massive as what we're laying out here. These sorts of bombshells take time to really digest.
But if we can get her to really consider this stuff, to internalize what we're saying and really, really listen to it, we may be able to crack her absolute conviction that she has definitely done Madoka untold wrong.
And if we can get her to question that, it will be a candidate for the single greatest achievement of social in the entire quest.
Ehm. As for the vote itself, as I said it's a bit narrative. But rewriting a vote into goal-based form from narrative isn't as hard as crafting one for scratch, and the general ideas will carry over.
Other comments... there is an... Interesting degree of symmetry between the last line, here, and Homura herself. Dunno quite what to think about that. Not sure if bad, irrelevant, good... The point I want to make with it is that as I've said if Madoka wanted to give up / etc she'd be moving in the direction of, well, being hurt. I wanted to emphasize that that wasn't happening.
[X] Standing:
-[X] Tone: empathetic, soft; care to not drive Homura to close herself off.
-[X] Continuous cleanse.
-[X] If at any point you feel it's correct to do so, give Homura time to compose herself.
[X] You believe that, over the course of the loops, Madoka has been capable of continually deciding that Homura's actions have been those of a good friend, who has had her best interests at heart, by means of a degree of autonomy -- of a degree of continuity in spite of the rewinding of time.
-[X] The dreams have changed over the course of the loops, updating, and on top of that Madoka has developed a set of gut instincts, feelings, etc., in reflection of a very limited degree of information transfer across loops.
--[X] It's not a lot of transfer, but Homura has been through a lot of loops, enough that by this point it should amount to an average -- an incredibly rough depiction of "Madoka" as though she were aware of everything she has been through during the loops. And what it has added up to is very, very interesting, because there is a complete absence of pain, grief, despair, or indeed any other form of suffering present in the net sum. It is exactly not at all what you would expect if the person it was representing had been put through subjective decades of hurt. There would be something in it to indicate that. Anything. Instead, there is exactly one prevailing theme to the dreams, the feelings, the instincts: Trust. Akemi. Homura.
---[X] If Madoka wanted to give up, if she felt that she was being hurt by Homura's actions... It's not compatible. There would instead have been a buildup of pain and hurt and despair. She would have instinctual leanings towards thinking that things were hopeless, that she should pull away, and it would all add up until every loop Madoka Kaname would be beaten-down and hopeless, her instinctual leanings confirmed by the events proceeding around her.
No.
Is beta-reading that bad? D:
To this end we aim to convince Homura of two things:
1) That Madoka is capable of expressing a reaction to the average over the events of the loops,
2) That that expression occurs and demonstrates that Madoka does not feel Homura's actions have caused her undesired pain.
In this case we can rely on "not caused undesired pain" as opposed to "not caused pain at all" because the alternative would be for Homura to give up, which... Walpurgisnacht falls, everyone dies.
Now, I think everyone here probably feels that the natural course of action after the end of the last vote is to comfort Homura, to reassure her, then to lay out more evidence, etcetera.
I approve of that in general, but it's not the course I think we should take.
The absolute first thing we should do is drop the conclusion of this post's argument:
There are two reasons for this. The first is that going through all the evidence before dropping the conclusion is just going to cause unnecessary pain. The second is that I'm rather hoping that having just found out something she was unaware of will make her slightly more receptive to hearing this out.
We're never going to solve all of Homura's issues in one conversation. It's pretty unlikely that in the tiny span of time that is the immediate conversation, she'll really completely accept anything as massive as what we're laying out here. These sorts of bombshells take time to really digest.
But if we can get her to really consider this stuff, to internalize what we're saying and really, really listen to it, we may be able to crack her absolute conviction that she has definitely done Madoka untold wrong.
And if we can get her to question that, it will be a candidate for the single greatest achievement of social in the entire quest.
Ehm. As for the vote itself, as I said it's a bit narrative. But rewriting a vote into goal-based form from narrative isn't as hard as crafting one for scratch, and the general ideas will carry over.
Other comments... there is an... Interesting degree of symmetry between the last line, here, and Homura herself. Dunno quite what to think about that. Not sure if bad, irrelevant, good... The point I want to make with it is that as I've said if Madoka wanted to give up / etc she'd be moving in the direction of, well, being hurt. I wanted to emphasize that that wasn't happening.
[X] Standing:
-[X] Tone: empathetic, soft; care to not drive Homura to close herself off.
-[X] Continuous cleanse.
-[X] If at any point you feel it's correct to do so, give Homura time to compose herself.
[X] You believe that, over the course of the loops, Madoka has been capable of continually deciding that Homura's actions have been those of a good friend, who has had her best interests at heart, by means of a degree of autonomy -- of a degree of continuity in spite of the rewinding of time.
-[X] The dreams have changed over the course of the loops, updating, and on top of that Madoka has developed a set of gut instincts, feelings, etc., in reflection of a very limited degree of information transfer across loops.
--[X] It's not a lot of transfer, but Homura has been through a lot of loops, enough that by this point it should amount to an average -- an incredibly rough depiction of "Madoka" as though she were aware of everything she has been through during the loops. And what it has added up to is very, very interesting, because there is a complete absence of pain, grief, despair, or indeed any other form of suffering present in the net sum. It is exactly not at all what you would expect if the person it was representing had been put through subjective decades of hurt. There would be something in it to indicate that. Anything. Instead, there is exactly one prevailing theme to the dreams, the feelings, the instincts: Trust. Akemi. Homura.
---[X] If Madoka wanted to give up, if she felt that she was being hurt by Homura's actions... It's not compatible. There would instead have been a buildup of pain and hurt and despair. She would have instinctual leanings towards thinking that things were hopeless, that she should pull away, and it would all add up until every loop Madoka Kaname would be beaten-down and hopeless, her instinctual leanings confirmed by the events proceeding around her.
No.
Is beta-reading that bad? D:
AuraTwilight
The Sorcerer of Smiles
- Location
- The Silver City
No, it's just if I'm having an episode, I can only really respond to an instant message on an IM client, because forum threads are a cunt sandwich on mobile and my IM clients support speech-to-text for when my hands aren't cooperating.
...Though Kai maybe we should come clean about how the two animal-people in this thread are dating. :U
Onmur
Archangel of Nutella.
So you all know at some point in the very near future we're gonna have yet another delightful conversation, this time with O&K about how we totally managed... to tighten security around them, are kicking them out of their home for a new place, and will ask Oriko to consider confessing her crime to their victims, and maybe even ask if they would be willing to sell the mansion and find a way to reimburse their victims, too.
That'll be yet another delightful conversation to have.
That'll be yet another delightful conversation to have.
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Hmm. While I agree with the sentiment of Kaizuki's vote, I don't love the wording. It comes off as a bit stilted, and I think relying on Brinapilot for the specific wording with a more goal oriented rewrite will work better. Here's my take:
[X] Standing:
-[X] Tone: empathetic, soft; care to not drive Homura to close herself off.
-[X] Cleanse as needed.
-[X] If at any point you feel it's correct to do so, give Homura time to compose herself.
[X] Madoka's maintained a degree of continuity through the dreams, and built up a sense of gut instincts, impressions, and so on.
--[X] And those instincts... drive her to accept and trust Akemi Homura. If Madoka wanted to give up, if she felt that Homura was hurting her... She'd stay away. But she doesn't.
[X] Standing:
-[X] Tone: empathetic, soft; care to not drive Homura to close herself off.
-[X] Cleanse as needed.
-[X] If at any point you feel it's correct to do so, give Homura time to compose herself.
[X] Madoka's maintained a degree of continuity through the dreams, and built up a sense of gut instincts, impressions, and so on.
--[X] And those instincts... drive her to accept and trust Akemi Homura. If Madoka wanted to give up, if she felt that Homura was hurting her... She'd stay away. But she doesn't.
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I just thought that since you said "text" you had each other's phone number.
[x] Kaizuki
How long it's been since O+K are in house arrest? A week, maybe? I get the Kures are bored and Sabrina trusts them but Sabrina should wait Sayaka to calm down and not ask her and Homura to let O+K free every day.So you all know at some point in the very near future we're gonna have yet another delightful conversation, this time with O&K about how we totally managed... to tighten security around them, are kicking them out of their home for a new place, and will ask Oriko to consider confessing her crime to their victims, and maybe even ask if they would be willing to sell the mansion and find a way to reimburse their victims, too.
That'll be yet another delightful conversation to have.
- Location
- Illinois
man last i heard i was being shipped with firn.
nah. The only SV relationship I'm aware of outside of stryp is madohomu.