With the fear of making any vote longer I gotta ask, are we sure that Homura's main problem isn't the surface problem of "of course I know this all as perfect as it can ever be; what, then, is the need to risk it??? wtf is your problem!?!?!?"
Yeah, that's another angle that we haven't covered: not "things are going well, how will it go wrong?" but "things are going so well, why risk Oriko fucking it up?"
I dunno, knowing Homura, if she had such a clear source for her concerns to point to, I think she'd just plainly state them rather than break down crying with fears she can't express. But it's something we can make a plan to address.
Still long as fuck. Much better organized. Suggestions for reducing wordcount without removing content welcome.
Tell me if I missed some main points of concern- either with the vote as a whole, or with sections to add to it. It needs to shrink by a lot, still, but if I've missed anything, s'liable to be important to the editing process and how I go about it, anyway. Contingencieshighlightedbytopic for ease of parsing. Important notes not part of the vote highlighted in red.
Section explaining use of pronouns as referring to whole team removed; formatting for consistency has made it unnecessary. Hopefully.
Items in quotations are meant to be paraphrased at Firn's discretion. They are not meant to be explicit dialogue directions.
===
[X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.
[x] Main goals, in no particular order:
-[x] Encourage Homura to believe in her own value, and in a good future.
-[x] Prevent her from feeling that her wish isn't being fulfilled because she isn't the one saving Madoka.
-[x] Explain, as best and clearly as possible, everything Homura indicates she wants or needs to know.
[x] Explicit beliefs: Points in order of increasing sensitivity. No statements made should contradict these ideas. DO NOT bring up more sensitive points unless Homura has given CLEAR indication that less sensitive points are not answering her concerns. Break to voting for any uncertainty about whether proceeding to the next point would be dangerous or counterproductive.
-[x] Homura is instrumental to the successes of this timeline.
-[x] Homura would have succeeded saving Madoka eventually.
-[x] Sabrina has advantages that make success easier, less costly, less pyrrhic.
-[x] While Madoka's Wish has contributed to this, Madoka has faith in Homura; Madoka's Wish, which makes it now more possible to succeed, was so that Homura could have the breathing room to fulfill Homura's wish, while leaving room for Madoka to feel like she's done something useful without, in this timeline, actually being in harm's way anymore.
The block above should be the point that anyone considering this vote should be comparing their views to most closely.
[x] Overall tone and subtext:
-[x] Optimistic and certain this loop will succeed.
-[x] Comforting and encouraging.
--[x] Don't make Homura feel like a sidekick. Make her feel like The Hero in a Five Man Band.
-[x] Address her points seriously.
--[x] Do not brush off her concerns by deflecting into segues about her usefulness if that's not what she wants to talk about.
-[x] Encourage her to communicate what she's feeling, rather than leaving Sabrina to guess. Try to get her to engage and respond.
-[X] Have a very soft, ask-and-answer talk with Homura. Repeat her statements if they are sentence fragments, help her to express. Do not complete for her, unless she motions for that. Kinda let her drive. If she stalls, only move forward a bit, then repeat the cycle. Stay as long as it takes.
[x] Beginning reply:
-[x] "It wasn't just me, though. It's never been just me. I've been handed so much. Everything we've done- it's been all of us."
--[x] "We're succeeding as a team. Kyubey tries to keep magical girls at each other's throats because it knows that no one can make it alone. Only together can we do this."
-[X] Ask:
--[x] For temporary full hugging privileges. If given, hug as necessary.
--[X] To sit down.
--[X] To cleanse.
[x] Conversation strategy: Attempt to address the following main points. (Specific direction provided below this block, for clarity.) If Homura indicates the present point is not the cause of her distress, interrupt present point and attempt to get her to share what is. Lacking clear Homura direction on which points she wants addressed, proceed to the next point sequentially IF she has indicated that the prior point was not answering her concerns, and the next point is already on her mind. Do not pursue points found to be irrelevant to Homura's primary concerns, but potentially refer back to them to tie them together or provide additional evidence. -[x] Point 1: Homura feeling that she is not fulfilling her wish, that she is useless because she is not able to be the one protecting Madoka. -[x] Point 2: Homura not liking herself; feeling that she specifically is why the loops have failed before; feeling that Sabrina is doing better with the same tools; possibly regards Sabrina emphasizing Homura's contributions as platitudes. -[x] Point 3: The conflict between Homura's promise to protect Madoka, and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish. -[x] Point 4: Homura fearing the successes thusfar may be ripped away from her; fearing this loop may fail after she's raised her hopes.
-[x] If there's an indication none of the above are the cause of her distress, and Sabrina's general attempts have not prompted her to reveal what is:
--[x] Ask Homura to talk to us. Ask her to tell us what we're not getting. There is nothing she could possibly say right now to alienate us. Not when she needs a friend.
-[x] If Homura does not answer despite reasonable gentle prodding: Break to voting.
[x] Specific directions: -[x] Point 1: Homura feeling that she is not fulfilling her wish, that she is useless because she is not able to be the one protecting Madoka.
--[x] Remind her: Without her, Madoka would be long dead in a loop far and gone. Homura's contributions let us get this far.
---[x] She's been the one keeping Madoka safe this whole time.
---[x] Holding down the fort while Sabrina rushes off to deal with out-of-town crises
---[x] Timestop's as an epic force multiplier, or letting us get there in the nick of time.
----[x] Tracking down Oriko
----[x] Saving Sayaka from the witch.
----[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko.
-----[x] Giving us the knowledge needed to make the right choices, both from metaknowledge and just her advice.
----[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening.
---[x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory.
--[x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that Sabrina is just here to help her.
--[x] And we--the people around this table--are her friends and we care about her and Madoka and we will do whatever it takes to help them find their happy ending.
-[x] Point 2: Homura not liking herself; feeling that she specifically is why the loops have failed before; feeling that Sabrina is doing better with the same tools; possibly regards Sabrina emphasizing Homura's contributions as platitudes.
--[x] Remind her that Sabrina is cheating:
--[x] Tone: Quiet, gentle, explaining, reflecting, not lecturing.
---[x] "I've been given so much."
----[x] Knowledge
-----[x] Literally a guidebook.
------[x] "Not just what people could do, who they could be, events, information. You've got that."
------[x] "I was given narrative framing; the exact information that could change things; the certainty that it's the information that matters. And a good idea of where to apply it. That's something you've had to spend loops and loops figuring out on your own, yeah? And here I got the cheat the system with my wish."
----[x] Griefbending: Power that specifically derails resource issues
-----[x] The single greatest tool that Homura hadn't been able to leverage before.
----[x] Tone: Gentle levity, sincerity: "And I have you. I get to start with all this information, plus an Akemi Homura."
-----[x] Tone: More serious: "Don't sell yourself short. I've said it before, but I stand on the shoulders of giants."
-----[x] Remind Homura of her contributions; connect this back to Point 1.
-[x] Point 3: The conflict between Homura's promise to protect Madoka, and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish.
Because this is a sensitive topic that many are reluctant to broach, additional safety clauses are included here. They can be removed if all concerned parties deem them unnecessary when taken into context with general safety measures outlined in "Conversation strategy" and "Explicit beliefs". We are significantly more likely to break to voting before ever reaching this section of the vote unmodified. This section is also longer, for the sake of this sensitive handling.
--[x] IF, AND ONLY IF, it seems Homura is considering how Madoka's wish has played into all this, and thus the issue needs addressing, AND Wish Rejection is a non-issue, broach the topic of Madoka's Wish:
---[x] "But there's more than just good luck and good folks, we both suspect, huh? I'm just going to say it- we've both got a pretty good idea where I come from. Why I'm here."
----[x] Tone: Gently: "It's pretty likely I'm a result of Madoka's wish last loop. Specially equipped and tailor made to work on the fixing of everything. But... I don't think it's just me. And I have some thoughts about that, if you want me to try and explain them."
--[x] If Homura gives no potential reason to avoid this line of conversation:
---[X] Discuss the timeline changes that seem to have made otherwise unfixable things fixable again; too blatant to be coincidence.
----[x] E.g. Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly. The timings of events; Nagisa. Echoes of could-have-been-timelines; Sayaka's behaviour. Etc.
---[X] Madoka's Wish is helping with more than just adding Sabrina.
----[x] Sabrina knows how much that must hurt Homura
-----[x] Knows that the only thing that will make Homura happy is to be able to keep Madoka safe, as Madoka once protected her.
-----[x] But also knows that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy.
----[x] Remind her that Madoka only asked her to not let her get tricked by Kyubey, not to not let her make a wish.
-----[x] Sabrina doesn't believe that Madoka was tricked this time. Homura succeeded in that; she kept her promise.
------[x] If appropriate: It was really Kyubey who got tricked: because Madoka's Wish is helping now, but thanks to Homura, Madoka isn't a magical girl.
-----[x] Sabrina believes Madoka knew enough, about the situation and about Homura, to know what she was doing.
----[x] Sabrina knows what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, when she knows the consequences; they're never without a good reason.
----[x] So if Madoka's Wish really did create Sabrina, really did cause all this change- then it was a Wish made to help Homura succeed. To entrust to her the tools to make a better future for both of them.
-----[x] Because Madoka wants Homura to get her happy ending, too.
----[x] "Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. Everything can be fixed- even things that couldn't be, before. You would have won eventually- I believe that. What Madoka's wish has done, isn't give you that. What it's giving you- what it's giving all of us, really- is the chance for a victory that's not pyrrhic. Where you can protect Madoka, and find happiness in the world afterwards. A wish to fix everything, including all the stories of magical girls which have been filled with and ended in tragedy, in other lifetimes- that includes your story, too."
-[x] Point 4: Homura fearing the successes thusfar may be ripped away from her; fearing this loop may fail after she's raised her hopes.
--[x] Encourage her that we will succeed.
--[x] Remind her of our extra advantages:
---[x] e.g. Griefbending; metaknowledge; Madoka knows not to contract; Sayaka's powers; many allies; etc.
--[x] Emphasize the power of teamwork.
--[x] Remain consistent with prior points:
---[x] We have all these advantages, and some are Sabrina's, but most are for Homura, and they are to give her the space to fulfill her wish.
--[x] If she remains worried:
---[x] Say: While we are confident of victory, we could give her supplies like a considerable supply of Clear Seeds just in case.
I still feel like most of the stuff in Point 3 is a goddamn landmine, but considering that the other votes are all basically just Point 3 and will absolutely guarantee that landmine goes off in our face....
I've got no time at all to observe the discussion, but considering the size of the last vote, it was... extensive.
I'm going to be the one saying the dumb thing, but has anyone tried to go for a minimalistic approach?
Something like:
[] Homura
-[] You wanna help her through her anxieties and insecurities
-[] hug teh homu
-[] Actually tell her why she's awesome, and tell her that the whole thing is even remotely possible because of her Wish
-[] Point out her more negative characteristics, like her closeness and sometimes even stubbornness. Tell her you understand why she is the way she is, she coped to survive the ungodly amounts of trauma, but some of the strategies she developed are hindering her progress.
-[] Offer your help in analyzing these strategies and figuring out what she could leave, and what she could leave behind her.
Obviously, not ideal. Shitty wording, some problems are not touched on, so I'm not going to ask people to vote for this. And well, I am typing this after spending twelve hours on me learning how the fuck I forgot about helping people and creating love, so yeah, tired.
What I want to say that the vote's intent is actually at least as important as its contents, as I think. Just as long as you don't sincerely wish to microwave tea. You can't really control every single detail, especially in such a delicate thing as a conversation between two human beings. It's just... I have a feeling that the thread is acting somewhat like a Homura. While dedication to your Mom's values is very important, don't overdo it, people.
Since it looks like we're all largely voting around the same theme and the issue is just a question of tone of approach, Firn is likely to grab from all the votes to get the idea we're trying to convey.
We're not voting around the same theme. You're voting to say things that will likely make Homura feel worse. Please explain how, if she's feeling that she's not fulfilling her wish to be the one who saves Madoka, telling her that all the success thus far is the result of Madoka's wish could possibly help?
I believe the first and most important thing we should do is [] Prompt Homura to vent by reassuring her we won't hate or judge her for expressing how she feels and that she needs to let it out sometimes. And sometime close after that we should [] Inform Homura that she was vital to our shared goals success. We should also [] Share any advice for the hypothetical situation that she loops again, -[] Suggesting she really should attempt to save every Meguca, and really needs to save Madoka's friends as a prerequisite to saving Madoka. After all, just as Homura herself needs Madoka safe to be happy, Madoka needs her friends to be safe for her to be happy.
[X] mCooperative
Adhoc vote count started by Madou Sutegobana on Apr 14, 2018 at 7:54 PM, finished with 136309 posts and 32 votes.
[X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.
[X] Ask for temporary full hugging privileges.
-[X] And to sit down.
-[X] And to cleanse.
[X] You're going to do your level best to answer anything she wants to know to the best of your ability. She needs that. If she doesn't want to say anything right now you'll start with your thoughts on why this is working, because that was the most likely thing you made out, but if she wants you to start anywhere else or, or anything...
-[X] Tone and subtext: push her to engage in this in some manner. It's not really good if she just bottles it back up, this conversation seems like it needs to happen.
-[X] Absent reason otherwise as pursuant to the previous two lines, subsequently:
--[X] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
---[X] Lay out all your evidence. Kirika's antimagic for Oriko, Nagisa, Anri, timings, Sayaka's behavior.
----[X] Madoka's Wish is still helping.
--[X] Convince Homura that Madoka's Wish guarantees she can find a Good End that satisfies both her and Madoka.
[X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.
[x] Main goals, in no particular order:
-[x] Encourage Homura to believe in her own value, and in a good future.
-[x] Prevent her from feeling that her wish isn't being fulfilled because she isn't the one saving Madoka.
-[x] Explain, as best and clearly as possible, everything Homura indicates she wants or needs to know.
[x] Explicit beliefs: Points in order of increasing sensitivity. No statements made should contradict these ideas. DO NOT bring up more sensitive points unless Homura has given CLEAR indication that less sensitive points are not answering her concerns. Break to voting for any uncertainty about whether proceeding to the next point would be dangerous or counterproductive.
-[x] Homura is instrumental to the successes of this timeline.
-[x] Homura would have succeeded saving Madoka eventually.
-[x] Sabrina has advantages that make success easier, less costly, less pyrrhic.
-[x] While Madoka's Wish has contributed to this, Madoka has faith in Homura; Madoka's Wish, which makes it now more possible to succeed, was so that Homura could have the breathing room to fulfill Homura's wish, while leaving room for Madoka to feel like she's done something useful without, in this timeline, actually being in harm's way anymore.
[x] Overall tone and subtext:
-[x] Optimistic and certain this loop will succeed.
-[x] Comforting and encouraging.
--[x] Don't make Homura feel like a sidekick. Make her feel like The Hero in a Five Man Band.
-[x] Address her points seriously.
--[x] Do not brush off her concerns by deflecting into segues about her usefulness if that's not what she wants to talk about.
-[x] Encourage her to communicate what she's feeling, rather than leaving Sabrina to guess. Try to get her to engage and respond.
-[X] Have a very soft, ask-and-answer talk with Homura. Repeat her statements if they are sentence fragments, help her to express. Do not complete for her, unless she motions for that. Kinda let her drive. If she stalls, only move forward a bit, then repeat the cycle. Stay as long as it takes.
[x] Beginning reply:
-[x] "It wasn't just me, though. It's never been just me. I've been handed so much. Everything we've done- it's been all of us."
--[x] "We're succeeding as a team. Kyubey tries to keep magical girls at each other's throats because it knows that no one can make it alone. Only together can we do this."
-[X] Ask:
--[x] For temporary full hugging privileges. If given, hug as necessary.
--[X] To sit down.
--[X] To cleanse.
[x] Conversation strategy: Attempt to address the following main points. (Specific direction provided below this block, for clarity.) If Homura indicates the present point is not the cause of her distress, interrupt present point and attempt to get her to share what is. Lacking clear Homura direction on which points she wants addressed, proceed to the next point sequentially IF she has indicated that the prior point was not answering her concerns, and the next point is already on her mind. Do not pursue points found to be irrelevant to Homura's primary concerns, but potentially refer back to them to tie them together or provide additional evidence. -[x] Point 1: Homura feeling that she is not fulfilling her wish, that she is useless because she is not able to be the one protecting Madoka. -[x] Point 2: Homura not liking herself; feeling that she specifically is why the loops have failed before; feeling that Sabrina is doing better with the same tools; possibly regards Sabrina emphasizing Homura's contributions as platitudes. -[x] Point 3: The conflict between Homura's promise to protect Madoka, and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish. -[x] Point 4: Homura fearing the successes thusfar may be ripped away from her; fearing this loop may fail after she's raised her hopes.
-[x] If there's an indication none of the above are the cause of her distress, and Sabrina's general attempts have not prompted her to reveal what is:
--[x] Ask Homura to talk to us. Ask her to tell us what we're not getting. There is nothing she could possibly say right now to alienate us. Not when she needs a friend.
-[x] If Homura does not answer despite reasonable gentle prodding: Break to voting.
[x] Specific directions: -[x] Point 1: Homura feeling that she is not fulfilling her wish, that she is useless because she is not able to be the one protecting Madoka. --[x] Remind her: Without her, Madoka would be long dead in a loop far and gone. Homura's contributions let us get this far.
---[x] She's been the one keeping Madoka safe this whole time. ---[x] Holding down the fort while Sabrina rushes off to deal with out-of-town crises ---[x] Timestop's as an epic force multiplier, or letting us get there in the nick of time.
----[x] Tracking down Oriko
----[x] Saving Sayaka from the witch. ----[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko. -----[x] Giving us the knowledge needed to make the right choices, both from metaknowledge and just her advice. ----[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening. ---[x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory. --[x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that Sabrina is just here to help her. --[x] And we--the people around this table--are her friends and we care about her and Madoka and we will do whatever it takes to help them find their happy ending. -[x] Point 2: Homura not liking herself; feeling that she specifically is why the loops have failed before; feeling that Sabrina is doing better with the same tools; possibly regards Sabrina emphasizing Homura's contributions as platitudes. --[x] Remind her that Sabrina is cheating: --[x] Tone: Quiet, gentle, explaining, reflecting, not lecturing. ---[x] "I've been given so much." ----[x] Knowledge -----[x] Literally a guidebook. ------[x] "Not just what people could do, who they could be, events, information. You've got that." ------[x] "I was given narrative framing; the exact information that could change things; the certainty that it's the information that matters. And a good idea of where to apply it. That's something you've had to spend loops and loops figuring out on your own, yeah? And here I got the cheat the system with my wish." ----[x] Griefbending: Power that specifically derails resource issues -----[x] The single greatest tool that Homura hadn't been able to leverage before. ----[x] Tone: Gentle levity, sincerity: "And I have you. I get to start with all this information, plus an Akemi Homura." -----[x] Tone: More serious: "Don't sell yourself short. I've said it before, but I stand on the shoulders of giants." -----[x] Remind Homura of her contributions; connect this back to Point 1. -[x] Point 3: The conflict between Homura's promise to protect Madoka, and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish. --[x] IF, AND ONLY IF, it seems Homura is considering how Madoka's wish has played into all this, and thus the issue needs addressing, AND Wish Rejection is a non-issue, broach the topic of Madoka's Wish: ---[x] "But there's more than just good luck and good folks, we both suspect, huh? I'm just going to say it- we've both got a pretty good idea where I come from. Why I'm here." ----[x] Tone: Gently: "It's pretty likely I'm a result of Madoka's wish last loop. Specially equipped and tailor made to work on the fixing of everything. But... I don't think it's just me. And I have some thoughts about that, if you want me to try and explain them." --[x] If Homura gives no potential reason to avoid this line of conversation: ---[X] Discuss the timeline changes that seem to have made otherwise unfixable things fixable again; too blatant to be coincidence. ----[x] E.g. Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly. The timings of events; Nagisa. Echoes of could-have-been-timelines; Sayaka's behaviour. Etc. ---[X] Madoka's Wish is helping with more than just adding Sabrina. ----[x] Sabrina knows how much that must hurt Homura -----[x] Knows that the only thing that will make Homura happy is to be able to keep Madoka safe, as Madoka once protected her. -----[x] But also knows that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy. ----[x] Remind her that Madoka only asked her to not let her get tricked by Kyubey, not to not let her make a wish. -----[x] Sabrina doesn't believe that Madoka was tricked this time. Homura succeeded in that; she kept her promise. ------[x] If appropriate: It was really Kyubey who got tricked: because Madoka's Wish is helping now, but thanks to Homura, Madoka isn't a magical girl. -----[x] Sabrina believes Madoka knew enough, about the situation and about Homura, to know what she was doing. ----[x] Sabrina knows what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, when she knows the consequences; they're never without a good reason. ----[x] So if Madoka's Wish really did create Sabrina, really did cause all this change- then it was a Wish made to help Homura succeed. To entrust to her the tools to make a better future for both of them. -----[x] Because Madoka wants Homura to get her happy ending, too. ----[x] "Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. Everything can be fixed- even things that couldn't be, before. You would have won eventually- I believe that. What Madoka's wish has done, isn't give you that. What it's giving you- what it's giving all of us, really- is the chance for a victory that's not pyrrhic. Where you can protect Madoka, and find happiness in the world afterwards. A wish to fix everything, including all the stories of magical girls which have been filled with and ended in tragedy, in other lifetimes- that includes your story, too." -[x] Point 4: Homura fearing the successes thusfar may be ripped away from her; fearing this loop may fail after she's raised her hopes. --[x] Encourage her that we will succeed. --[x] Remind her of our extra advantages: ---[x] e.g. Griefbending; metaknowledge; Madoka knows not to contract; Sayaka's powers; many allies; etc. --[x] Emphasize the power of teamwork. --[x] Remain consistent with prior points: ---[x] We have all these advantages, and some are Sabrina's, but most are for Homura, and they are to give her the space to fulfill her wish. --[x] If she remains worried: ---[x] Say: While we are confident of victory, we could give her supplies like a considerable supply of Clear Seeds just in case.
[X] Well, to be fair, I have a huge bargaining chip that you never had: free, unlimited cleansing, as well as a massively powerful ally. That sways people, and convinces them that you're worth fighting for in a way that no amount of Grief Seeds ever would. [X] "You never really had an opportunity to learn charisma and persuasion skills. And while you've had a lot of time to learn since your Wish, you've also been constantly subjected to immense emotional trauma, with no one who could help you deal with it. That makes charisma and persuasion far more difficult. You've been fighting against a massive handicap all along, with no one to help you and no way to figure out what to do about it. I'd say you've done remarkably well, under the circumstances." [X] "Do you have any idea how hard it is to start all over and try again, after losing everything? Most people struggle to do that kind of thing once. You've done it dozens of times, without anyone to even talk to, ever since you were--what? 13? The fact that you haven't given up is, by itself, utterly remarkable. Don't sell yourself short. Everyone needs a helping hand, myself included. I'd never have gotten this far without you, for instance. Sayaka would be dead. Oriko would be at large. Kyubey would probably know everything. And more." [X] "You're fucking amazing, Homura, and we've only gotten this far because we've done it together. Also, remember how I came about because of Madoka's Wish? Well, the only reason she ever had a chance to even make that Wish is because of all of your efforts."
[X] How can we explain this to the strongest girl in the world?
-[X] Have a very soft, ask-and-answer talk with Homura. Repeat her statements if they are sentence fragments, help her to express. Do not complete for her, unless she motions for that. Kinda let her drive. If she stalls, only move forward a bit, then repeat the cycle. Stay as long as it takes.
[X] Caution regarding Homura's PTSD, teach her those facts.
[X] "Most people don't pop out of nowhere with a good idea as to how to fix the problems of a bunch of other people they never met but remember really well. I can't say for certain how I'm here, but we both probably have a good guess. If a wish is powerful... What about a wish that helps other wishes? "
[x] Conversation goal: Attempt to help Homura believe in herself and her future by telling her to have faith in Madokami who has faith in her and Wished to fix everything.
-[x] The conflict between the promise she made to Madoka and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish.
-[x] Homura not liking herself.
[x] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
[x] Lay out all your evidence. Kirika's antimagic for Oriko, Nagisa, Anri, timings, Sayaka's behavior.
[x] Madoka's Wish is still helping.
[x] You know how much that must hurt Homura. But that's not the end of the story, because Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that includes Homura's story.
-[x] You know that Homura can only be happy if Madoka is safe and Homura is the one protecting her, and you know that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy.
[x] You do mean that you know. Your metaknowledge focuses on some people. The two people it focuses on the most are Madoka and Homura. Madoka cares about Homura, and you're almost certain she Wished thinking of Homura.
[x] Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that means Homura can be saved.
[x] Silently pray to Madokami. She Wished to save Homura, but there's no way unless Homura can accept Her help, so there has to be something like this. Please let this work.
[x] You don't believe that Madoka was tricked into that Wish. You think that she knew enough about Homura to know what she was doing.
-[x] Homura's last loop diverges from your metaknowledge, but you know what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, and she wouldn't have made that one without a good reason.
-[x] And she decided to Wish that Homura could protect her and find happiness, among other things, and entrusted you and Homura with the future. You will see her will done.
[X] "Homura."
-[X] Hug the stuffing out of her.
[X] You don't have sufficient details of her early loops to truly compare and contrast, so you don't know if you can really give her a perfect answer as to why.
-[X] But you'll damn well try if she asks. Any time, any where, for any topic, even if it takes you napping in timestop.
[x]No matter how well things seem to go for me, my time is finite, as is the time of anybody else I've brought into this aspiring shadow government. I can't be everywhere at once.
-[x]Example of force multiplier time stop provides that makes protecting Madoka possible.
-[x]Break to listening/ soliciting further engagement with Brinapilot fear alleviation/explanation as needed.
-[x](Response on Standby for concerns about her not being the one to do it personally)Governments are made of people. You know that picture from Hobbes' s Leviathan of a person made of people? You're part of the Leviathan too. The accomplishments of the Leviathan are the accomplishments of all the people it's made of.
I'm going to be blunt here. A vote that's two thousand words long is not acceptable.
Yes, the wordcount limit is a guideline only meant to provide an rough idea of how long a vote should be, not a binding ruleset... but that vote is still roughly ten times as long as it should be.
Cut it down. Yes, you will lose information that way - that's inevitable. Trying to impose a contingency for every possible situation in a maze of if-then clauses is madness. Either seek to clarify what path to go down if you're unsure, as Onmur is, or pick the approach that you feel is correct based on the previous update.
@mCooperative here are some places where I think you can cut out some redundancies, if you still want to pursue this format.
But I also have to agree with Redshirt: this is excessive. If it's not Point 1 or Point 2 (which seem by far the most likely options) that are causing Homura's distress, then it's probably gonna take us a whole update's worth of conversations to figure that out anyway. And we're probably going to want to go back to voting anyway before we try to address Point 3, because it's going to be an extremely touchy subject.
[X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.
[x] Main goals, in no particular order:
-[x] Encourage Homura to believe in her own value, and in a good future.
-[x] Prevent her from feeling that her wish isn't being fulfilled because she isn't the one saving Madoka.
-[x] Explain, as best and clearly as possible, everything Homura indicates she wants or needs to know.
[x] Explicit beliefs: Points in order of increasing sensitivity. No statements made should contradict these ideas. DO NOT bring up more sensitive points unless Homura has given CLEAR indication that less sensitive points are not answering her concerns. Break to voting for any uncertainty about whether proceeding to the next point would be dangerous or counterproductive.
-[x] Homura is instrumental to the successes of this timeline.
-[x] Homura would have succeeded saving Madoka eventually.
-[x] Sabrina has advantages that make success easier, less costly, less pyrrhic.
-[x] While Madoka's Wish has contributed to this, Madoka has faith in Homura; Madoka's Wish, which makes it now more possible to succeed, was so that Homura could have the breathing room to fulfill Homura's wish, while leaving room for Madoka to feel like she's done something useful without, in this timeline, actually being in harm's way anymore.
The block above should be the point that anyone considering this vote should be comparing their views to most closely.
[x] Overall tone and subtext:
-[x] Optimistic and certain this loop will succeed.
-[x] Comforting and encouraging.
--[x] Don't make Homura feel like a sidekick. Make her feel like The Hero in a Five Man Band.
-[x] Address her points seriously.
--[x] Do not brush off her concerns by deflecting into segues about her usefulness if that's not what she wants to talk about.
-[x] Encourage her to communicate what she's feeling, rather than leaving Sabrina to guess. Try to get her to engage and respond.
-[X] Have a very soft, ask-and-answer talk with Homura. Repeat her statements if they are sentence fragments, help her to express. Do not complete for her, unless she motions for that. Kinda let her drive. If she stalls, only move forward a bit, then repeat the cycle. Stay as long as it takes.
[x] Beginning reply:
-[x] "It wasn't just me, though. It's never been just me. I've been handed so much. Everything we've done- it's been all of us."
--[x] "We're succeeding as a team. Kyubey tries to keep magical girls at each other's throats because it knows that no one can make it alone. Only together can we do this." -[X] Ask:
--[x] For temporary full hugging privileges. If given, hug as necessary.
--[X] To sit down.
--[X] To cleanse.
[x] Conversation strategy: Attempt to address the following main points. (Specific direction provided below this block, for clarity.) If Homura indicates the present point is not the cause of her distress, interrupt present point and attempt to get her to share what is. Lacking clear Homura direction on which points she wants addressed, proceed to the next point sequentially IF she has indicated that the prior point was not answering her concerns, and the next point is already on her mind. Do not pursue points found to be irrelevant to Homura's primary concerns, but potentially refer back to them to tie them together or provide additional evidence. -[x] Point 1: Homura feeling that she is not fulfilling her wish, that she is useless because she is not able to be the one protecting Madoka. -[x] Point 2: Homura not liking herself; feeling that she specifically is why the loops have failed before; feeling that Sabrina is doing better with the same tools; possibly regards Sabrina emphasizing Homura's contributions as platitudes. -[x] Point 3: The conflict between Homura's promise to protect Madoka, and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish. -[x] Point 4: Homura fearing the successes thusfar may be ripped away from her; fearing this loop may fail after she's raised her hopes.
-[x] If there's an indication none of the above are the cause of her distress, and Sabrina's general attempts have not prompted her to reveal what is:
--[x] Ask Homura to talk to us. Ask her to tell us what we're not getting. There is nothing she could possibly say right now to alienate us. Not when she needs a friend.
-[x] If Homura does not answer despite reasonable gentle prodding: Break to voting.
[x] Specific directions: -[x] Point 1: Homura feeling that she is not fulfilling her wish, that she is useless because she is not able to be the one protecting Madoka.
--[x] Remind her: Without her, Madoka would be long dead in a loop far and gone. Homura's contributions let us get this far.
---[x] She's been the one keeping Madoka safe this whole time.
---[x] Holding down the fort while Sabrina rushes off to deal with out-of-town crises
---[x] Timestop's as an epic force multiplier, or letting us get there in the nick of time.
----[x] Tracking down Oriko
----[x] Saving Sayaka from the witch.
----[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko.
-----[x] Giving us the knowledge needed to make the right choices, both from metaknowledge and just her advice.
----[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening.
---[x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory.
--[x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that Sabrina is just here to help her.
--[x] And we--the people around this table--are her friends and we care about her and Madoka and we will do whatever it takes to help them find their happy ending.
-[x] Point 2: Homura not liking herself; feeling that she specifically is why the loops have failed before; feeling that Sabrina is doing better with the same tools; possibly regards Sabrina emphasizing Homura's contributions as platitudes.
--[x] Remind her that Sabrina is cheating:
--[x] Tone: Quiet, gentle, explaining, reflecting, not lecturing. ---[x] "I've been given so much." ----[x] Knowledge -----[x] Literally a guidebook.
------[x] "Not just what people could do, who they could be, events, information. You've got that." ------[x] "I was given narrative framing; the exact information that could change things; the certainty that it's the information that matters. And a good idea of where to apply it. That's something you've had to spend loops and loops figuring out on your own, yeah? And here I got the cheat the system with my wish."
----[x] Griefbending: Power that specifically derails resource issues -----[x] The single greatest tool that Homura hadn't been able to leverage before. ----[x] Tone: Gentle levity, sincerity: "And I have you. I get to start with all this information, plus an Akemi Homura."
-----[x] Tone: More serious: "Don't sell yourself short. I've said it before, but I stand on the shoulders of giants."
-----[x] Remind Homura of her contributions; connect this back to Point 1.
-[x] Point 3: The conflict between Homura's promise to protect Madoka, and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish.
Because this is a sensitive topic that many are reluctant to broach, additional safety clauses are included here. They can be removed if all concerned parties deem them unnecessary when taken into context with general safety measures outlined in "Conversation strategy" and "Explicit beliefs". We are significantly more likely to break to voting before ever reaching this section of the vote unmodified. This section is also longer, for the sake of this sensitive handling.
--[x] IF, AND ONLY IF, it seems Homura is considering how Madoka's wish has played into all this, and thus the issue needs addressing, AND Wish Rejection is a non-issue, broach the topic of Madoka's Wish: ---[x] "But there's more than just good luck and good folks, we both suspect, huh? I'm just going to say it- we've both got a pretty good idea where I come from. Why I'm here."
----[x] Tone: Gently: "It's pretty likely I'm a result of Madoka's wish last loop. Specially equipped and tailor made to work on the fixing of everything. But... I don't think it's just me. And I have some thoughts about that, if you want me to try and explain them."
--[x] If Homura gives no potential reason to avoid this line of conversation:
---[X] Discuss the timeline changes that seem to have made otherwise unfixable things fixable again; too blatant to be coincidence.
----[x] E.g. Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly. The timings of events; Nagisa. Echoes of could-have-been-timelines; Sayaka's behaviour. Etc.
---[X] Madoka's Wish is helping with more than just adding Sabrina.
----[x] Sabrina knows how much that must hurt Homura
-----[x] Knows that the only thing that will make Homura happy is to be able to keep Madoka safe, as Madoka once protected her.
-----[x] But also knows that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy. ----[x] Remind her that Madoka only asked her to not let her get tricked by Kyubey, not to not let her make a wish.
-----[x] Sabrina doesn't believe that Madoka was tricked this time. Homura succeeded in that; she kept her promise.
------[x] If appropriate: It was really Kyubey who got tricked: because Madoka's Wish is helping now, but thanks to Homura, Madoka isn't a magical girl.
-----[x] Sabrina believes Madoka knew enough, about the situation and about Homura, to know what she was doing.
----[x] Sabrina knows what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, when she knows the consequences; they're never without a good reason. ----[x] So if Madoka's Wish really did create Sabrina, really did cause all this change- then it was a Wish made to help Homura succeed. To entrust to her the tools to make a better future for both of them.
-----[x] Because Madoka wants Homura to get her happy ending, too. ----[x] "Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. Everything can be fixed- even things that couldn't be, before. You would have won eventually- I believe that. What Madoka's wish has done, isn't give you that. What it's giving you- what it's giving all of us, really- is the chance for a victory that's not pyrrhic. Where you can protect Madoka, and find happiness in the world afterwards. A wish to fix everything, including all the stories of magical girls which have been filled with and ended in tragedy, in other lifetimes- that includes your story, too." ----[x] Reassure her that she will get that ending by connecting back to Point 1.
-[x] Point 4: Homura fearing the successes thusfar may be ripped away from her; fearing this loop may fail after she's raised her hopes.
--[x] Encourage her that we will succeed.
--[x] Remind her of our extra advantages:
---[x] e.g. Griefbending; metaknowledge; Madoka knows not to contract; Sayaka's powers; many allies; etc.
--[x] Emphasize the power of teamwork.
--[x] Remain consistent with prior points:
---[x] We have all these advantages, and some are Sabrina's, but most are for Homura, and they are to give her the space to fulfill her wish.
--[x] If she remains worried:
---[x] Say: While we are confident of victory, we could give her supplies like a considerable supply of Clear Seeds just in case.
It's a bit ambiguous in context what it's referring to. It comes right after Griefbending, so one might think it was referring to that, but that doesn't make sense. Griefbending wasn't a tool that Homura couldn't leverage before, it one that straight up didn't exist. If anything, the single greatest tool that Homura'd failed to leverage, possibly humanity's greatest asset, was teamwork.
[X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.
[x] Main goals, in no particular order:
-[x] Encourage Homura to believe in her own value, and in a good future.
-[x] Prevent her from feeling that her wish isn't being fulfilled because she isn't the one saving Madoka.
-[x] Explain, as best and clearly as possible, everything Homura indicates she wants or needs to know.
[x] Overall tone and subtext:
-[x] Optimistic and certain this loop will succeed.
-[x] Comforting and encouraging.
--[x] Don't make Homura feel like a sidekick. Make her feel like The Hero in a Five Man Band.
-[x] Address her points seriously.
--[x] Do not brush off her concerns by deflecting into segues about her usefulness if that's not what she wants to talk about.
-[x] Encourage her to communicate what she's feeling, rather than leaving Sabrina to guess. Try to get her to engage and respond.
-[X] Have a very soft, ask-and-answer talk with Homura. Repeat her statements if they are sentence fragments, help her to express. Do not complete for her, unless she motions for that. Kinda let her drive. If she stalls, only move forward a bit, then repeat the cycle. Stay as long as it takes.
[x] Beginning reply:
-[x] "I'm not succeeding. We're succeeding. Together. Everything we've done--it's been all of us."
--[x] "We're succeeding as a team. Kyubey tries to keep magical girls at each other's throats because it knows that no one can make it alone. Only together can we do this."
-[x] If Homura is feeling that she is not fulfilling her wish, that she is useless because she is not able to be the one protecting Madoka.
--[x] Remind her: Without her, it all would have been over in the first timeline. It's only because of her that we got this far.
---[x] She's been the one keeping Madoka safe this whole time.
---[x] Holding down the fort while Sabrina rushes off to deal with out-of-town crises
---[x] Timestop as an epic force multiplier, or letting us get there in the nick of time.
----[x] Tracking down Oriko
----[x] Saving Sayaka from the witch.
----[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko.
-----[x] Giving us the knowledge needed to make the right choices, both from metaknowledge and just her advice.
----[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening.
---[x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory.
--[x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that Sabrina is just here to help her.
--[x] And we--the people around this table--are her friends and we care about her and Madoka and we will do whatever it takes to help them find their happy ending.
-[x] If the problem is Homura not liking herself; feeling that she specifically is why the loops have failed before; feeling that Sabrina is doing better with the same tools; possibly regards Sabrina emphasizing Homura's contributions as platitudes.
--[x] Remind her that Sabrina is cheating:
---[x] Sabrina got to start with the knowledge that Homura had to learn the hard way over multiple loops, so she could make a wish that broke the system.
----[x] Griefbending: Power that specifically derails resource issues
----[x] Also, we had Homura as an ally. Don't let her sell herself short: we stand on the shoulders of giants.
-----[x] Remind Homura of her contributions; connect this back to Point 1.
I went through that vote in detail, and here's what I think it condenses down to:
[x] Approach:
-[x] Encourage Homura to believe in herself. Be positive.
-[x] Respect Homura. Don't guess, respond. Provide explanations.
-[x] Only bring up sensitive topics as prompted. Be delicate.
[x] It doesn't work for "me", it works for "us". We're a team. Hugs/Cleansing as appropriate.
-[x] Ask Homura to explain the issue. There is nothing she could possibly say right now to alienate us. Not when she needs a friend.
[x] Address, if/when it comes up:
-[x] Homura feeling useless.
--[x] Explain how despite Sabrina's advantages, Homura remains invaluable in protecting Madoka.
---[x] If safe/necessary, Madoka's Wish's help.
-[x] Risks we're taking.
--[x] Address specific concerns.
--[x] We won't risk ultimate success.
-[x] Homura's promise.
--[x] You don't think Madoka was tricked, last loop. She Wished that Homura could protect her and find happiness, among other things, and entrusted you and Homura with the future.
148 words, fitting within the original wordcount guideline.
I'm going to be blunt here. A vote that's two thousand words long is not acceptable.
Yes, the wordcount limit is a guideline only meant to provide an rough idea of how long a vote should be, not a binding ruleset... but that vote is still roughly ten times as long as it should be.
Cut it down. Yes, you will lose information that way - that's inevitable. Trying to impose a contingency for every possible situation in a maze of if-then clauses is madness. Either seek to clarify what path to go down if you're unsure, as Onmur is, or pick the approach that you feel is correct based on the previous update.
I freely admit that my previous vote is excessively long; this is at least partially why I am so surprised anyone was willing to vote for it at all. Also why I did not deny the allegations that it wasn't some particularly sincere advanced form of shitposting. Also why I have made a point of explicitly noting that I was planning to heavily abridge it when I had the time, which is at a premium at the moment due to schoolwork. Though, that being said, looking back, I may have once again believed I was communicating more clearly than I actually was, something I'll continue to try and keep in mind for the future. That said, I'm not sure it was meant, but I don't appreciate the implication that I was deliberately ignoring people's concerns about the wordcount, when I have been attempting to solicit help abridging it.
Also, some not-particularly-relevant-anymore corrections to your assessment of why I began framing it as extensive contingency voting in the first place: It was primary a reaction to the heated discussion that had been taking place immediately previously, in an attempt to provide a moderately absurdist platform to begin compromise on. Also, an expression of personal preference for excessive clarity, particularly with the not-mutually-exclusive but not-entirely-compatible threads of logic that had been proposed at the time. Also, a reaction to some of the concern I was seeing about both the fact that all available votes barreled down a single path with only cursory acknowledgement of the others, and a few stated concerns about vote direction stability.
That being said, while significantly abridged, your vote does serve the same purpose of probing and exploring the conversation space for the main points we all seem to be aware may be the issue. Also, it's neither long-as-fuck, nor does it either instinctively prompt or necessarily require me to spend another five hours parsing through now-color-coded text. I would appreciate it if you did still include the explicit line about breaking to vote on a hair-trigger, because we seem to be in the midst of a lot of sensitive topics, and there are a lot of Specific Opinions about how to expand on all of them. The explicit fine-control would be nice. Still:
... hey, on the bright side, Firn takes the general state of the thread into account when writing these things- we've copy-pasted, edited, mangled, and improved some of these turns of phrase so often, it's entirely possible some of them will make it in anyway.
And I think the lack of discussion is probably down to accelerating irl schoolwork, the baffling enormity of the issues we have to deal with all at once in this conversation, and something like the bystander effect. This is just a really tricky vote and it's a lot easier and less stressful to sit back and wait for someone who's proven to be insightful before to put together a bandwagon for me to jump on instead of trying to make suggestions when my own stance tends to wildly swing between whoever had a particularly eloquent rant most recently. I can't imagine I'm the only one in that position.
It is my feeling that we are in it a bit deeper than the redux version of the over-sized prototype. I propose being in full support and treatment mode. Homura is pretty much breaking down IMHO, though she isn't out of self control yet. We need to put our full empathy forward, and use precautions to keep conversation happening. I think we are better off passing those instruction literally in this vote. Sabrina needs to learn this stuff. Feel free to improve upon / debate what is in here. Under 200 word vote, substantial notes in sectioned blocks.
Top level goals:
Save
Grant Wishes
Heal
Prepare for future (potentialbomb)
Reduce despair
Build friendship and love
Build trust
Proximate goals:
Do Not Grief Spiral
Do Not reject Wish
Do Not Potentialbomb
Do Not reduce Agency
Think and converse slowly
Avoid / mitigate Trigger topics when possible
Draw out enough meaning to proceed clearly
Make PTSD accommodations.
Be transparent about the help we offer
Be 100% truthful, use caution if needed
Give safety
Let her in, mirror her too. Use empathy
Repeat parts of conversation is awareness is uncertain
Assume:
Homura is 'drowning.' Cannot identify all aspects of her negative feelings.
Homura can adapt to her problem, given help / time.
PTSD is active
Possible crisis
[X] How can we explain this to the strongest girl in the world?
[X] Try not to trigger her, must understand her pain right now, before sharing answers.
-[X] Ask to do pain conversation first
-[X] We ask questions to get her feelings visible, in a less challenging way.
-[X] Have a very soft, ask-and-answer talk with Homura. Repeat her statements if they are sentence fragments, help her to express. Do not complete for her, unless she motions for that. Kinda let her drive. If she stalls, only move forward a bit, then repeat the cycle. Stay as long as it takes.
-[X] If her pain is not covered in the topics of the vote, break to vote.
[X] Caution her regarding Homura's PTSD, teach her those facts. If she denies, break to vote.
[X] Promise, and give honest answers.
-[X] Slowly, and with context conversation, so she doesn't use the facts to hurt herself.
-[X] Have her generate context examples, be careful not to lecture at this point. Understanding is what we want to see in her.
-[X] Very small steps
[X] When a trouble spot is sensed, break for vote.
Homura is already proven to adapt and survive under the worst conditions, but we need to give her a moment to catch up. It doesn't work at our speeds, and she's already hurt. Homura has a variety of stressors, so she's having a hard time identifying which emergency she's responding to anymore. Homura is drowning. So my main priority is to vastly slow down the dialog pace IC, and get her to swim to the surface. Second, get her to acknowledge that she's having difficulty functioning, due to injury. Then, get her to stop trying to measure her performance, or her worth. Not the time for that. I think this set of discussions will help her out.
#####
Everything works, because this is how Homura made it to be. This world is the sum of her labors, somehow. Homura wished to be the one to protect Madoka this time. She is, and she has been. It feels different than that for two reasons.
Kyuubey cheats. He lets you take your Wish, but without any training. Is it surprising that you needed to practice? The thing you want to do is "fight an alien occupation." Alone. Homura has always been isolated, being in a group again is upsetting.
Does she know why she feels so much pain right now? It is an injury to her emotions. It is called PTSD, and she got it because aliens made her into a soldier at the age of thirten.
Think of PTSD like it is Grief. You have trouble thinking when it hurts. We need to talk slowly, so Homura has time to think. We can also discuss layman's view of treatment.
#####
Sabrina will answer as much as she knows, but Sabrina doesn't know everything. Homura gets results. Sabrina gets results. Ours are mostly cheating. Cheating won't solve everything, determination does.
Sabrina is not a leader, she's put out in front where you want her. Sabrina is not even a useful shield. Sabrina has been attracting attention - she is your diversion. Because there is something Sabrina doesn't do well. Protect Madoka. What is Sabrina? A literal battery for Magical Girls. Sabrina needs saving all the time, she's just a big rookie. She takes big risks, where the protector can't. Sabrina trips traps. Sabrina breaks up the indirect attacks. Sabrina hugs strangers. You have stopped Kyuubey directly. Your wish requires freedom of action. Without a team, you could never fully block Kyuubey. With Mami, Sabrina, now Sayaka, and everyone, you maybe have a chance.
#####
Is Sabrina hearing a bit that Homura would be happier if she felt like the only hero? Madoka's wish from last loop is a form of conversation between Homura and her. Madoka wants to be the hero too. The relationship is developing.
If what we are aiming at is true, the best way to respond is to re-frame the prospect of a Madowish, helping her grasp its' positive emotional context. Promise her the truth in any information we have, right now if she wants. We must stand on this. But we must be slow and gentle as we do it.
We all agree that Madoka must not give up her humanity. Grant her wish that she asked for, right now, to remove to such possibility?
That way, she can't make a bad wish. Give the girl you love the thing she so desperately wants. That is, "to fix everything." It's a much, much bigger task than your Wish. Don't be afraid to spiral in towards her, you pointed your wish at her, now she is putting her wish around you. A few details will work themselves out, like Sabrina joining you all from... wherever it was she existed three weeks ago. It's a step up for Sabrina, it has to be, Madoka is a kind person. Sabrina has to be here, to give you more power, to grant both wishes.
How does your loop work? Your wish sends you back in time to re-do your first meeting by yourself?
WRONG. You Wished for her to meet you. You bent the world to do it, and it is working. You go back, with accumulated memories and items. Everyone else changes a bit sometimes. Except you, who are different every time, and Madoka, who is always herself. Madoka goes back in time too, unconscious and in sync.
You two are connected. It's Yin and Yang. Is this O.K. with you? It seems like you wanted that to happen? The only complication is The System.
The reason everything is working now isn't Sabrina, nor Madoka. It is that you didn't give up, and became more powerful than the Incubators. Not 'her' alone, both of you. Over the ten years that you two have been looping, things have been getting better. You have accumulated skills and knowledge, mental strength and education. Invisibly, Madoka is growing as well. Her Wish changes, you can see that. You two have to work together, it is your Wish. You did keep her from being tricked. Her Wish now includes a way for you to be together at last. When you both accept one another, this all happens. Sabrina happens.
Focus on the fact that Homura (active partner) and Madoka (passive partner) are in a long climb to escape the system. After improving as a pair for this long, the solution has been found. The way Homura wins, is by capitalizing on all that she has done, and by letting her partner help her. Since Madoka must not over- wish again, she made Sabrina to do that for her.
Homura is only one person. Her time is finite. Sabrina is only one person, her time is much more finite. (Timestop is such bullshit.) The Incubators will be pushed back if we dare to use our emotions to connect everyone. People work together. Friends work together. You work together with the one you love.
And I think the lack of discussion is probably down to accelerating irl schoolwork, the baffling enormity of the issues we have to deal with all at once in this conversation, and something like the bystander effect. This is just a really tricky vote and it's a lot easier and less stressful to sit back and wait for someone who's proven to be insightful before to put together a bandwagon for me to jump on instead of trying to make suggestions when my own stance tends to wildly swing between whoever had a particularly eloquent rant most recently. I can't imagine I'm the only one in that position.
Redshirt Army, when you have time, could you elaborate more on this specific part? I'm not entirely sure what it means, and I'm not able to glean which part of mCooperative's long as giraffe's... neck vote it corresponds to. Otherwise, I rather like your vote. No doubt Firn appreciates it, as well.
@HeroCycle
I haven't told you this before, and for that, I'm sorry. Still, better late than never, right?
Firstly, I'm Russian. English is not my native language. I speak it reasonably well, however. I can't really understand what you mean half of the time. I gotta admit, sometimes it's because I just don't put more effort in understanding you, and I was told that your manner of writing is actually a viable subset of English called "business speak" or somesuch.
Still, I think I'm not the only one who has some trouble comprehending you. A pity, because you do have many good points judging by what I was able to glean from your posts.
Well, I've made a commitment to put more effort in understanding you. In return, I would really appreciate if you tried to write in a more conventional manner. If you feel like it, of course.
Redshirt Army, when you have time, could you elaborate more on this specific part? I'm not entirely sure what it means, and I'm not able to glean which part of mCooperative's long as giraffe's... neck vote it corresponds to. Otherwise, I rather like your vote. No doubt Firn appreciates it, as well.
@HeroCycle
I haven't told you this before, and for that, I'm sorry. Still, better late than never, right?
Firstly, I'm Russian. English is not my native language. I speak it reasonably well, however. I can't really understand what you mean half of the time. I gotta admit, sometimes it's because I just don't put more effort in understanding you, and I was told that your manner of writing is actually a viable subset of English called "business speak" or somesuch.
Still, I think I'm not the only one who has some trouble comprehending you. A pity, because you do have many good points judging by what I was able to glean from your posts.
Well, I've made a commitment to put more effort in understanding you. In return, I would really appreciate if you tried to write in a more conventional manner. If you feel like it, of course.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Apr 17, 2018 at 7:38 AM, finished with 179 posts and 15 votes.
[X] Standing: Try to lead Homura with questions where possible. Continuous cleanse.
[X] Tone: empathetic; care to not drive Homu to close herself off.
[X] Why does she think that?
-[X] You firmly believe she deserves to be happy. Your friends would agree, Madoka would agree.
--[X] Await response, then break.
[x] Main goals, in no particular order:
-[x] Encourage Homura to believe in her own value, and in a good future.
-[x] Prevent her from feeling that her wish isn't being fulfilled because she isn't the one saving Madoka.
-[x] Explain, as best and clearly as possible, everything Homura indicates she wants or needs to know.
-[x] Encourage Homura to say what she's feeling, and listen to what she says... and doesn't say.
[x] Overall tone and subtext:
-[x] Optimistic and certain this loop will succeed.
-[x] Comforting and encouraging.
--[x] Don't make Homura feel like our sidekick. Make her feel like she's the hero and we're her sidekick.
-[x] Don't steamroll over Homura with speeches, let her express herself.
[x] Reaffirm that Homura can do this and deserves a happy ending.
-[x] She's spent more than a decade putting herself through a Sisyphean purgatory to save someone she loves. If anyone deserves a happy ending, it's her.
-[x] Homura is our friend, the closest thing we have to family, and we care about her. We want her to be happy.
--[x] Not just Sabrina, but everyone. Mami, Sayaka, Hitomi and most of all Madoka. Even if they don't know what she's been through, they all care about her and want her to be happy.
---[x] As crazy as it sounds, even Orikois rooting for her to win, because Homura winning means that the world is saved.
-[x] Even after Walpurgisnacht is beaten, we're never going to give up on Homura. We'll do everything we can to help her be happy.
[x] Homura will save Madoka, and all of us will do everything we can to help her.
-[x] Meanwhile, Sabrina is going to save everyone, and wouldn't mind having Homura's help.
-[x] If Homura is feeling that she is not fulfilling her wish, that she is useless because she is not able to be the one protecting Madoka or other feelings of inadequacy, then remind her of how much good she's done.
--[x] Remind her: Without her, it all would have been over in the first timeline. It's only because of her that we got this far.
---[x] She's been the one keeping Madoka safe this whole time.
---[x] Holding down the fort while Sabrina rushes off to deal with out-of-town crises
---[x] Timestop as an epic force multiplier, or letting us get there in the nick of time.
---[x] Tracking down Oriko
---[x] Saving Sayaka from the witch.
---[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko.
---[x] Giving us the knowledge needed to make the right choices, both from metaknowledge and just her advice.
---[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening.
---[x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory.
--[x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that Sabrina is just here to help her.
[X] "Okay, let me back up. I didn't properly address your concerns before, so I'll do that first." [X] "Firstly, I have a huge bargaining chip that you never had: free, unlimited cleansing, as well as a massively powerful ally. That sways people, and convinces them that you're worth fighting for in a way that no amount of Grief Seeds ever would." [X] "You never really had an opportunity to learn charisma and persuasion skills. And while you've had a lot of time to learn since your Wish, you've also been constantly subjected to immense emotional trauma, with no one who could help you deal with it. That makes charisma and persuasion far more difficult. You've been fighting against a massive handicap all along, with no one to help you and no way to figure out what to do about it. I'd say you've done remarkably well, under the circumstances." [X] "You know hard it is to start all over and try again, after losing everything. Most people struggle to do that kind of thing once. You've done it dozens of times, without anyone to even talk to, ever since you were--what? 13? The fact that you haven't given up is, by itself, utterly remarkable. Don't sell yourself short. Everyone needs a helping hand, myself included. I'd never have gotten this far without you, for instance. Sayaka would be dead. Oriko would be at large. Kyubey would probably know everything. And more." [X] "You're fucking amazing, Homura, and we've only gotten this far because we've done it together. Also, remember how I came about because of Madoka's Wish? Well, the only reason she ever had a chance to even make that Wish is because of all of your efforts."
[X] Tone: Caring, empathetic, supportive.
[X] You firmly believe she deserves to be happy. Your friends would agree, Madoka would agree.
[x] Madoka wouldn't settle for a world where Homura didn't deserve happiness.
[x] In fact, you're pretty sure she hasn't been settling.
[X] Tell Homura about Madoka's dreams.
[x] Lead Homura to your theory that Madoka's been working side-by-side with Homura the entire time. She won't stop until Homura succeeds, just like Homura won't succeed until Madoka is safe.
-[X] Break to voting if any point needs more detail, or if Homura seems troubled. Don't be pushy.
-[X] Relax. Comment:
--[X] Homura's hair and higher dimensions.
--[X] Raiding Yakuza for (4D) pocket money.
[X] O&K.
-[X] Probably a 'random' apartment.
-[X] You don't know the Kure adults. Could be a bad idea.
[X] Everyone.
-[X] Explain your discomfort when dropping heavy topics. Ask if there's anything you can do to make it less stressful?
-[X] Offer to watch the spar video.
[X] Put in an order for the tracking devices.
[X] If there's time, practice enchantment:
-[X] Try using Control Magic...
--[X] On Grief.
--[X] To shape something into a Pocket Brina.
[X] How can we explain this to the strongest girl in the world?
[X] Try not to trigger her, must understand her pain right now, before sharing answers.
-[X] Ask to do pain conversation first
-[X] We ask questions to get her feelings visible, in a less challenging way.
-[X] Have a very soft, ask-and-answer talk with Homura. Repeat her statements if they are sentence fragments, help her to express. Do not complete for her, unless she motions for that. Kinda let her drive. If she stalls, only move forward a bit, then repeat the cycle. Stay as long as it takes.
-[X] If her pain is not covered in the topics of the vote, break to vote.
[X] Caution her regarding Homura's PTSD, teach her those facts. If she denies, break to vote.
[X] Promise, and give honest answers.
-[X] Slowly, and with context conversation, so she doesn't use the facts to hurt herself.
-[X] Have her generate context examples, be careful not to lecture at this point. Understanding is what we want to see in her.
-[X] Very small steps
[X] When a trouble spot is sensed, break for vote.
[x]Really? For being as much a cause of this fledgling shadow governments accomplishments as me, for enduring the much undeserved ravages of fate, I think you deserve no less. The only reason I had the gold to fund Sayaka's tutoring, host refugees in the first place was you. The reason I can perform operations outside Mitakihara without worrying about a sudden apocalypse? You. The reason I was able to get any use out of Oriko and Kirika in the first place instead of still fighting them or being forced to kill them? You. My time is finite. I cannot be everywhere at once. You make that significantly less of a problem.
[X] Continuous cleanse
[X] Of course she deserves happiness. That's what we think, that's what the others would think, that's what Madoka would think.
-[X] Await response, then break.
[x] Madoka wouldn't settle for a world where Homura didn't deserve happiness.
[x] In fact, you're pretty sure she hasn't been settling.
-[x] Tell Homura about Madoka's prophetic dreams.
[x] Lead Homura to your theory that Madoka's been working side-by-side with Homura the entire time. She won't stop until Homura succeeds, just like Homura won't succeed until Madoka is safe.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Apr 18, 2018 at 4:47 AM, finished with 136586 posts and 19 votes.
[X] Standing:
-[X] Tone: empathetic, soft; care to not drive Homura to close herself off.
-[X] Continuous cleanse.
[X] You don't agree with that.
-[X] Motion for her to hold on. You need to ask her a couple more questions to help you make sure you understand why she feels that way, and then, if you're right about their answers, you'll have an explanation for her.
--[X] Does she feel that she doesn't deserve happiness because of her actions in the loops?
---[X] If no, break. If yes, does she feel that her actions in the loops have hurt Madoka?
----[X] If no, break. If yes, proceed to next line.
[X] Ask her if she is aware that Madoka dreams about her before they meet each loop.
-[X] Give her a small amount of time to react and break to voting.
[X] Tone: Caring, empathetic, supportive.
[X] You firmly believe she deserves to be happy. Your friends would agree, Madoka would agree.
[x] Madoka wouldn't settle for a world where Homura didn't deserve happiness.
[x] In fact, you're pretty sure she hasn't been settling.
[X] Tell Homura about Madoka's dreams.
[x] Lead Homura to your theory that Madoka's been working side-by-side with Homura the entire time. She won't stop until Homura succeeds, just like Homura won't succeed until Madoka is safe.
[X] Main point: Keep reassuring Homura. Emotional support.
[X] Tone: Empathetic.
-[X] Be careful to not drive Homura to close herself off.
[x] Firmly: She does deserve it. Nobody else could have done what she's done, to save Madoka.
-[x] Certainly not you. Without unlimited magic... You wouldn't have lasted a single loop. She's the strongest, most reliable of any of us. That's not her magic, that's her.
[x] Why does she feel she doesn't? Ask her to talk to us.
[X] "Okay, let me back up. I didn't properly address your concerns before, so I'll do that first." [X] "Firstly, I have a huge bargaining chip that you never had: free, unlimited cleansing, as well as a massively powerful ally. That sways people, and convinces them that you're worth fighting for in a way that no amount of Grief Seeds ever would." [X] "You never really had an opportunity to learn charisma and persuasion skills. And while you've had a lot of time to learn since your Wish, you've also been constantly subjected to immense emotional trauma, with no one who could help you deal with it. That makes charisma and persuasion far more difficult. You've been fighting against a massive handicap all along, with no one to help you and no way to figure out what to do about it. I'd say you've done remarkably well, under the circumstances." [X] "You know hard it is to start all over and try again, after losing everything. Most people struggle to do that kind of thing once. You've done it dozens of times, without anyone to even talk to, ever since you were--what? 13? The fact that you haven't given up is, by itself, utterly remarkable. Don't sell yourself short. Everyone needs a helping hand, myself included. I'd never have gotten this far without you, for instance. Sayaka would be dead. Oriko would be at large. Kyubey would probably know everything. And more." [X] "You're fucking amazing, Homura, and we've only gotten this far because we've done it together. Also, remember how I came about because of Madoka's Wish? Well, the only reason she ever had a chance to even make that Wish is because of all of your efforts."
[X] AWARENESS - Homura is deeply emotional, and in trauma. Minimize hard logic. Emphasize relationships and feelings.
[X] AWARENESS Homura started with a Romantic / Fantasy world view when not in trauma. (e.g. "Magia" lyrics) Observe for this in her thoughts.
-[X] Allow for this when we engage her issues with our dialog.
[X] AWARENESS Look out for Polarized Thinking. Don't say no, try to make her re-state things as ratios other than 1 or zero.
[X] AWARENESS Emotions may be hard to identify or separate for her right now. Assist if it happens.
[X] AWARENESS Homura may lose track of current location, context, temporal relations if she gets worse. Be her landmark, keep her situated and grounded.
[X] Let her speak using her own native idioms. Adopt and adapt to her choices.
[X] How can we explain this to the strongest girl in the world?
-[X] Use empathy. Repeat much but not every word she says. Fall in physical sync - breathing, posture, timing, etc. Sub-vocalize when she hurts herself verbally, so she knows Sabrina feels it too.
-[X] Do Not speechify yet. Listen, repeat, ask, learn.
--[X] Who told Homura that something like "not deserving" is right? Invite reply.
--[X] Sabrina knows Homura, Only four people have any idea what Homura's life is like. (Keep moving past this unless she latches on to the 'four.')
---[X] {IF QUERIED Homura, Sabrina, Oriko, Madoka}
----[X] Oriko will create dissonance, better to add Madoka after.
----[X] In fact, Oriko may have a few percent of Homura's actions viewable in precog. Only things that kill Oriko, but knowledge beyond most people.
---[X] Who makes that decision? Wait, elicit response.
-[X] Trying to open any doubt about the "I don't deserve" line
----[X] ONLY IF REQUIRED Tell Homura about Madoka's dreams.
----[X] ONLY IF REQUIRED Madoka is always with you - lead Homura into her information not being perfect. Perspective correction.
-----[X] ONLY IF REQUIRED Her native enchantment - first time tonight! But always there. Possibilities exist for hope Homura doesn't see right now
------[X] ONLY IF REQUIRED Madoka as a partner in travel due to Homura's wish. "How does your wish work?" challenge.
------[X] ONLY IF REQUIRED Not painful to Madoka. Subconscious awareness of Homura, always. These are not full narrative memories.
[X] Ask to do pain conversation first. We see her pain. Want to connect Sabrina to that first, please. It might get a little easier if she shares.
-[X] Try not to trigger her more, must understand her pain right now, before sharing answers.
-[X] We ask questions to get her feelings visible, in a less challenging way.
-[X] Have a very soft, ask-and-answer talk with Homura. Repeat her statements. If they are sentence fragments, help her to express.
--[X] Do not complete for her, unless she motions for that.
---[X] 'Verbal autocomplete', confirm or multiple choice. Don't advance without her.
--[X] Kinda let her drive. If she stalls, only move forward a bit, then repeat the cycle. Stay as long as it takes.
-[X] If her pain is not covered in the topics of the vote, break to vote.
[X] Caution her regarding Homura's PTSD, teach her those facts. If she denies, break to vote.
[X] Promise, and give honest answers.
-[X] Have her generate context examples, "for instances."
--[X] Be careful not to lecture at this point.
--[X] Understanding is what we want to see in her.
-[X] Slowly, and add context conversation, so she doesn't use the facts to hurt herself.
--[X] Expect her to try and mis-understand in self-destructive ways. Be prepared.
-[X] Very small steps
[X] When a trouble spot is sensed, break for vote.
[x] Main goals, in no particular order:
-[x] Encourage Homura to believe in her own value, and in a good future.
-[x] Prevent her from feeling that her wish isn't being fulfilled because she isn't the one saving Madoka.
-[x] Explain, as best and clearly as possible, everything Homura indicates she wants or needs to know.
-[x] Encourage Homura to say what she's feeling, and listen to what she says... and doesn't say.
[x] Overall tone and subtext:
-[x] Optimistic and certain this loop will succeed.
-[x] Comforting and encouraging.
--[x] Don't make Homura feel like our sidekick. Make her feel like she's the hero... like she's our hero.
-[x] Don't steamroll over Homura with speeches, let her express herself.
-[x] Don't continue to push a particular topic if it's upsetting her.
[x] Reaffirm that Homura can do this and deserves a happy ending.
-[x] She's spent more than a decade putting herself through a Sisyphean purgatory to save someone she loves. If anyone deserves a happy ending, it's her.
-[x] Homura is our friend, the closest thing we have to family, and we care about her. We want her to be happy.
--[x] Not just Sabrina, but everyone. Mami, Sayaka, Hitomi and most of all Madoka. Even if they don't know what she's been through, they all care about her and want her to be happy.
-[x] Even after Walpurgisnacht is beaten, we're never going to give up on Homura. We'll do everything we can to help her be happy.
[x] Homura will save Madoka, and all of us will do everything we can to help her.
-[x] Meanwhile, Sabrina is going to save everyone, and wouldn't mind having Homura's help.
-[x] Homura is not alone anymore. She has someone else who knows the truth and wants to help her.
-[x] If Homura is feeling that she is not fulfilling her wish, that she is useless because she is not able to be the one protecting Madoka or other feelings of inadequacy, then remind her of how much good she's done.
--[x] Without her, it all would have been over in the first timeline. It's only because of her that we got this far.
--[x] Sabrina can only do so much. It's only because of Homura that we even had a chance.
---[x] She's been the one keeping Madoka safe this whole time.
---[x] Holding down the fort while Sabrina rushes off to deal with out-of-town crises
---[x] Timestop as an epic force multiplier, or letting us get there in the nick of time.
---[x] Tracking down Oriko
---[x] Saving Sayaka from the witch.
---[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko.
---[x] Giving us the knowledge needed to make the right choices, both from metaknowledge and just her advice.
---[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening.
---[x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory.
--[x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that Sabrina is just here to help her.
[x]Easier said then done I suspect, but learning to see yourself as a human being again instead of a machine. You're the reason a sizable chunk of what we built is even possible. My time is finite. I can't be everywhere at once. Catching Oriko, the gold to take in refugees and fund Sayaka's tutoring, saving Sayaka from Feathers in the first place and being an amazing force multiplier in general. For that, I think you deserve no less. And if Sayaka or Mami knew what I knew, I don't doubt they'd agree with me.
-[x]Without the resources you provided me, the most protection I could provide would be ensuring Madoka knew to try replicating my wish. I'm a mysterious amnesiac. I can't follow her into places like school without causing a stir. I am as subtle as a truck. So make no mistake, you are still protecting her. You're just doing it as one of the four territory lords of Mitakihara, with infrastructure at your back.
"Oh, Homura," you whisper, your heart breaking for her. "I-"
You're going with your first instinct here.
"Can I hug you?" you blurt.
Homura shrugs, the barest rise and fall of her shoulders, and you immediately pull her back into a hug. Her arms hang limp at her side, but she leans into your hug. Just a bit.
You take the moment to think, to really think through what she said, what she's asking. She's lost. From her point of view, you've simply swept in and, well. You swept in and fixed everything, just like Madoka Wished to, last loop.
It's an existential crisis on two fronts: Homura Wished to redo her first meeting with Madoka, to be the one to protect her. And Madoka asked Homura to stop her from making a Wish. And here you are, probably a result of Madoka's Wish, doing everything to protect Madoka.
And you...
You don't know how to fix this. Because the existential crisis is rightfully so. You are sweeping in to fix things. You couldn't have done it without her - you can't do what you do without her. But that just... doesn't mitigate the fact that you are bearing the weight. With her friendship and support and with the culmination of everything she's done.
Which means you don't know what you can tell Homura.
But-
No.
That's not true, is it?
Someone else blazed the trail first. Two someones blazed your trail for you. And you need your friends at your back, to help you and to keep you sane. You're fighting for them. You're leading, but you're not doing it alone.
You take a shuddering breath, before pulling back and smiling at Homura. A thought wipes Grief form your Soul Gem, and you give Homura a questioning look. She nods wordlessly, and you cleanse her Gem too.
"Sit down?" you murmur. "I- I think this is going to be a long talk, but it's necessary."
She nods again, jerky and stiff.
Maneuvering so that you can both sit down without letting go of Homura is a little tricky, but you both wind up sitting comfortably beside the coffee table. Sayaka and Mami are both in view in front of you, that little edge of worry cast in stark relief on Mami's face.
You don't think she's ever going to lose that fear of letting you go, not for a long time, but... that's a matter for another time.
For now, you focus on Homura. Homura, who's frail and hunched, looking down at her lap. You have her hand, your grip loose around her wrist.
"What do you want to know?" you ask gently. "I... Homura... I don't want you to..."
You grope at the air, looking for a word.
"I don't want you to be upset," you finish. "And- I guess, too late for that, but I want to help. I'll answer your questions, as much as I can, as best as I can. I've got some ideas, I guess, but... do you want me to start anywhere? Do you want me to address anything in particular?"
Homura shakes her head mutely.
"Then... I guess I'm going to share some thoughts I've been having," you say slowly, leaning back and propping yourself up on your free hand to look up at the ceiling. "Asunaro was too easy."
You give Homura a grin, even if she doesn't look up at you. It's for your own benefit, as much as anything else, to keep your mood up.
"I know, I know," you say. "Asunaro was a mess. Hell, it still is, a bit, but they're stable now. I don't know how much you've interacted with them in the past, but... Look, by all rights they should have been a bag full of crazy, high on Grief and what I can only describe as yandere love. I think I went over this with you before, right?"
Homura doesn't answer, opting instead to shrug.
"And then there's Nagisa," you say, chasing that line of thought. As much as you need to tell Homura this, you're shaping this for yourself, too. "She... she should be a Witch by now. Charlotte. The Witch that..."
Your voice fails you, the bite of horror a sharp knife to your gut. You motion at Mami, in lieu of continuing.
Homura nods. You can feel the weight of her eyes on you for a moment.
"Yeah," you say, and cleanse your Soul Gem, checking Homura's. She's fine. "And yet, here she is. Not even a magical girl. And of course, Oriko, and Kirika."
You can feel Homura stiffen, the tendons in her wrist bunching as she clenches her hand into a fist.
"I... I'm not talking about whether they're good guys, or not," you say. You'd rather not poke that particular trauma right now. Not when you know you're going to wind up jamming your finger into another one. "But it's... different. Oriko got a different vision, that much is clear, and Kirika didn't get her time slow. She got her antimagic, something perfectly suited to helping Oriko, and not just to fight us."
A breath in, and a slow sigh as you continue staring at the light fixture on the ceiling, grey and cold from the timestop.
"And Sayaka, of course," you say. "I don't need to tell you how she usually treats you."
"That's your doing," Homura mutters quietly.
"Maybe," you say. "But... there's too much here that's different. And I know there are variations from time to time-" like Kyousuke being a guitarist "-but there's too much for me to say it's just the timeline being a bit different, right? I- you'd know better than I would, here."
Homura nods silently, gaze flickering over to you for a second. You push off the floor, tipping forward to face her again.
"The only thing I can come back to is Madoka's Wish, last loop," you say quietly. Homura's gaze snaps to you, the weight of her regard and the choking anguish almost a physical thing that rocks you back.
"I-" Homura's voice chokes off.
"I'm sorry," you say, bowing your head. "I know it hurts. But I'm bringing it up for a reason. I... Homura, Madoka's Wish transcended time. Her Wish is still helping. Things are different, and better this time. Everything can be fixed."
Homura doesn't respond, her breathing shallow and slow.
Please, Madokami, let this work. You don't know if she's out there or not, but you believe in her, in her Wish.
"I know you can't be happy if Madoka isn't safe, and if you're not the one protecting her," you say. "And I know that Madoka can only be happy if you are. I know Madoka must have realised that. She's like that, isn't she? She's so much smarter than anyone would guess at first glance."
"I don't- I just need her to be safe," Homura whispers.
"OK," you say, bowing your head again. "I... Homura, my metaknowledge focused on some people. You and Madoka the most, and I know, I know Madoka cares about you. I don't know exactly what happened last loop, but I know she must have Wished thinking of you."
"It's a failure," Homura whispers. "I failed."
Please, Madokami.
You cleanse Homura's Soul Gem again, draining away to slow seepage of despair. "She wasn't tricked into that Wish," you murmur. "Homura, Madoka is so much kinder, so much smarter, than anyone might guess at. You know that better than anyone. And... she'd never do anything that could make someone as strong as you cry, right?"
Homura nods jerkily.
"She knew what she was doing," you say quietly, meeting her eyes. She's not crying, her expression simply... lost. "I believe that. I know her, not as well as you do, but... she wouldn't have made that Wish without a good reason."
"I suppose what I'm saying is that you can be happy, Homura." You sigh, and smile. "You're not alone. In more than one way. I'm here, yes, but I'm here to help. Madoka's Wish means that we can do this."
"How?" Homura whispers, her voice raw and agonized. "I don't deserv- I can't."
[] Write-in
-[X] Break to voting if any point needs more detail, or if Homura seems troubled. Don't be pushy.
-[X] Relax. Comment:
--[X] Homura's hair and higher dimensions.
--[X] Raiding Yakuza for (4D) pocket money.
[X] O&K.
-[X] Probably a 'random' apartment.
-[X] You don't know the Kure adults. Could be a bad idea.
[X] Everyone.
-[X] Explain your discomfort when dropping heavy topics. Ask if there's anything you can do to make it less stressful?
-[X] Offer to watch the spar video.
[X] Put in an order for the tracking devices.
[X] If there's time, practice enchantment:
-[X] Try using Control Magic...
--[X] On Grief.
--[X] To shape something into a Pocket Brina.
=====
So... here's something I'd like to reiterate: the wordcount is a guideline, at best. I had it in the first place because votes were bloating out to ridiculous degrees that were unwieldy and awful to work with. But shorter doesn't necessarily mean better. I'm incredibly busy these days, and I frequently only have time to skim the thread. This means that I may miss context and important points.
So what I'm saying is that if adhering to the wordcount means you lose clarity, then forget that wordcount.
Speaking of which, I've removed said wordcount for this vote.
