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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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The thing is, Sabrina is pretty much created to be a fairy godmother and make not just Homura's wish come true, but in a sense nearly every magical girl's wish- because they made a wish out of a desire to be happy, and Sabrina wants them to be happy.

This is actually a mind-bogglingly effective tactic if Sabrina is actually playing into someone's wish to be happy because it lends the weight of their wish to much of what she does. If you're working to save Madoka, Homura's wish probably helps. If you're working to bring people together, Mami's wish probably helps. If you're working to help Oriko, Kirika's wish probably helps. And so forth.

It's kind of potentially a wish avalanche once it gets going.
 
Vebyast said:
So, actually, the question is more like "how do we not make it seem like Madoka is doing all the work".
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Okay, I just want to preface this with the disclaimer that I think this is too risky to actually try and it's mostly just me spitballing and combining recent conversation topics, but...

We were just worrying about how to defuse the potentialbomb, weren't we? And if we're worried about Homura falling apart if success is thanks to Madoka's wish, well... the reality is that Madoka only had the power to make such powerful wish because Homura's looping gave her more and more power. So this would be a good opportunity to frame the potentialbomb as something other than "you've been pushing victory farther and farther from yourself with each failure" - which is ridiculous anyway considering Madoka was always powerful enough to merit QB's attention and it's not like Madoka having more power is going to make QB meaningfully more desperate for her contract, past a certain point. Instead, we could frame it as "your continued effort is all that has allowed Madoka to be able to do what she's done," and, by extension, "we're only as successful as we are because of how many times you've looped." It's a much more positive - and, in my opinion, more accurate - view of the potential bomb.

That said, I still don't think it's worth it at this point. If she's like, actually falling completely apart/in a grief spiral in front of us at some point because she feels useless, maybe we should consider it more seriously, but as it is now, it seems way too dangerous.
 
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blast flame said:
Telling Homura she could have won but failed doesn't sound much better than telling her that she was incapable of winning. It hits different psychological buttons to be sure but just as many of them.
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I think the potential merit here is less "Homura could have won on her own" and more "If I have seen far, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants." If we're successful, it's in significant part because we can and do rely on her.

And this is both in terms of our metaknowledge, wherein we're doing well because we had a chance to examine her successes and failures, and also in terms of goings on here and now. Homura has done a lot to aid us, and we've had her to inform us where our own knowledge is lacking.

We're partially able to go out and do things without worry because Homura herself is here to keep things stable. Not just hypothetically either. Just off the top of my head, capturing Oriko and saving Sayaka from Else Maria might both have been much more perilous without her help.
 
[X] Well, to be fair, I have a huge bargaining chip that you never had: free, unlimited cleansing, as well as a massively powerful ally. That sways people, and convinces them that you're worth fighting for in a way that no amount of Grief Seeds ever would.
[X] "You never really had an opportunity to learn charisma and persuasion skills. And while you've had a lot of time to learn since your Wish, you've also been constantly subjected to immense emotional trauma, with no one who could help you deal with it. That makes charisma and persuasion far more difficult. You've been fighting against a massive handicap all along, with no one to help you and no way to figure out what to do about it. I'd say you've done remarkably well, under the circumstances."
[X] "Do you have any idea how hard it is to start all over and try again, after losing everything? Most people struggle to do that kind of thing once. You've done it dozens of times, without anyone to even talk to, ever since you were--what? 13? The fact that you haven't given up is, by itself, utterly remarkable. Don't sell yourself short. Everyone needs a helping hand, myself included. I'd never have gotten this far without you, for instance. Sayaka would be dead. Oriko would be at large. Kyubey would probably know everything. And more."
[X] "You're fucking amazing, Homura, and we've only gotten this far because we've done it together. Also, remember how I came about because of Madoka's Wish? Well, the only reason she ever had a chance to even make that Wish is because of all of your efforts."


Yeah, this is kind of like a speech, but Homura is basically inviting us to give one, here.

Anyway, the points I'm driving home here are: Sabrina has huge bargaining chips that Homura could never have possibly had, that Homura has been handicapped from the start and never had a way to recover (her constant trauma hamstringing her social ability and her ability to learn it), that Homura herself has done a remarkable job under the circumstances, and that Sabrina herself would never have gotten as far as she has without help--something Homura never had. Oh, and that Homura is amazing--she really needs to think better of herself--and that all of what we've done has only been accomplished because we've done it together.

@Onmur @Redshirt Army @Torgamous
Thoughts? I feel like this has the best chance of working, here. Introducing stuff like our "subjective weeks to analyze conversations" is bound to just confuse her, and saying that her constant stalking of Madoka has been equal to our efforts is bound to trip her self-doubt and self-loathing issues (she'll doubt that her methods have been making a difference, and that we're just saying they have to make her feel better). Saying that Homura has been doing the best job she possibly could have under the circumstances is liable to avoid that flaw, since it acknowledges her own flaws but excuses them because she had no means to address them. Saying she has made critical differences even with Sabrina present by pointing out stuff like Sayaka being dead or Oriko being at large gives her concrete reasons to value her own efforts. Saying that Sabrina is gifted with a massive bargaining chip with her power that Homura never could have possibly had also makes Homura feel less like she failed and more like she just wasn't equipped to succeed, which is very important for her psyche--it explains why she couldn't succeed without making it her fault in her mind, which is key.
 
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[] If you had my power, you would've won in your first loop. Madoka would've killed Walpurgisnacht, you would've cleansed her, then you both would've gone on to get married and have a bunch of pink-and-black striped babies.
[] If I had your power I would've died or witched by timeline five.

[] The reason you're able to go out and collect allies is because she's here to keep Kyuubey away from Madoka. If it were just you, you would be too busy keeping things from getting worse to spend time making things better.

[] A big part of it is that you spend subjective weeks thinking of how to handle conversations. Homura could do that too now, if she wanted to.
Omniatrix said:
We were just worrying about how to defuse the potentialbomb, weren't we?
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Yes, and we were going to tell Homura a while ago but Firn declared that we have reasons other than her emotional reaction to worry about. Do Not Touch.
 
Hmmm... Vomiting votecrafting bits ALL OVER THE PLACE.

[] Not all of it works.
-[Q] Reminisce about your fuck ups.
[] Sit down?
-[Q] Try to get side hugs too.

[] Try to give Homura perspective on how and why things seem to be going better.
-[] Be careful. Keep in mind Homura's issue and goals.
--[Q] Ffs don't imply this is all Madoka's Wish.
---[Q] Because that would just kick Homu's issues in the face. :V
-[] Mention how many of your successes come from having inside knowledge; contrast to cases like Ono and Akiko.
--[] And it's not your success. You owe so much to your friends.
---[] Rather, if there's any one great thing you've accomplished, is helping everyone come to work together.
----[] Where would we be without Homura. Without Mami?

It's true we decide lots of things and make them work, but we really rely on everyone else for this. Otherwise we wouldn't have got far.

----[Q] Think about being alone and locking yourself into a grief box for MAXIMUM SCIENCE! until you could've solved ALL the problems.



I wonder if we would want to... talk about something like...

[] Talk about there possibly being something bigger at play.
-[] Talk about all the coincidences this timeline: You being dropped here, empowered to 'fix things'; all the events that have simply gone better without intervention...
--[] The flipside: The abnormal difficulties that've popped up. First Oriko, then 'Feathers'... And some problems that are directly a consequence of our being here.
-[] It's all connected.
--[Q] Feel small.

THIS IS ALL HAPPENING FOR A REASON
(And you have an important role to play!)
 
Firnagzen said:
"You're getting results," she says. "I don't-"
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We should reassure her that she was also able to get results; she might be feeling a bit useless right now; the last time she wasn't able to have enough of a effect she tore a god from heaven with her Grief and her Love.
Firnagzen said:
"I've- this never worked," she whispers, and there's stark, raw pain in her voice, her shoulders hunched against a blow she's endured over and over and over again. "It never worked before."

"I won't let Oriko interfere-"

"It doesn't have to be her," Homura whispers, shaking her head. "It- all this works. For you."
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We should also reassure her that not being able to cheat hard enough, or to look at alternative methods, or for things being too painful for her to change like we can if we need to, is not her fault.

On a side note; if we wanted to set up a massive chain of dominos, now would be the time to do it.
 
I'm not sure how to reconcile this...

Onmur said:
I wonder if we would want to... talk about something like...

[] Talk about there possibly being something bigger at play.
-[] Talk about all the coincidences this timeline: You being dropped here, empowered to 'fix things'; all the events that have simply gone better without intervention...
--[] The flipside: The abnormal difficulties that've popped up. First Oriko, then 'Feathers'... And some problems that are directly a consequence of our being here.
-[] It's all connected.
--[Q] Feel small.

THIS IS ALL HAPPENING FOR A REASON
(And you have an important role to play!)
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...with this:

Onmur said:
--[Q] Ffs don't imply this is all Madoka's Wish.
---[Q] Because that would just kick Homu's issues in the face. :V
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Aren't they the same thing?
 
Torgamous said:
[] If you had my power, you would've won in your first loop. Madoka would've killed Walpurgisnacht, you would've cleansed her, then you both would've gone on to get married and have a bunch of pink-and-black striped babies.
[] If I had your power I would've died or witched by timeline five.
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The problem with telling Homu how awesome she is, not because of super powers, but because of her most admirable traits as a person... is that I don't think Homu would share that perspective.

Her not having the most amazing super powers to solve everything forever the first time would be as much an intrinsic part of her as her own Determination Powers, in her head. Maybe even a more important part.

As it is, she's reliving her repeated failures.

"I've- this never worked," she whispers, and there's stark, raw pain in her voice, her shoulders hunched against a blow she's endured over and over and over again. "It never worked before."
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Being able to retry an infinite amount of times only has negative value if they're all failures.

Something I've commented a couple of times; Homura's living on the certainty she'll succeed. Her self-steem is almost non-existant; she only has a string of failures behind her.

She's borrowing the fact she will succeed, from the future. That determination is what gives her self-worth. All this is worth it because she will succeed in the end.

(And she despairs when she realizes she's not winning, and that she's making things worse.)
 
Redshirt Army said:
I'm not sure how to reconcile this...



...with this:



Aren't they the same thing?
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Well, the last part.

Madoka's Wish isn't solving everything. There's counterforces.

Homu isn't getting her wish handed to her in a silver platter. There's Things She Must Do.

... Basically, this is a contribution? Forcefully? It's the middle ground; Homu does her part to Save Madoka; Madoka does her part to Fix Everything.

Neither can ignore the other completely and choose their own prefered extreme; neither becomes inconsequential. They both must do their part.
 
The Phoenixian said:
If I have seen far, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants."
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[] If I have seen far, it is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants.

I think that that's actually the lead-in to my vote.

So the next problem:

-[] Homura kept Madoka safe long enough for Madoka to do what she does best: help everyone.

I think that this is a rough summary of what things like Onmur's vote are going toward. The problem is that Homura thinks that "keep Madoka safe" is "make sure she does nothing and remains uninvolved". In particular, the natural extension would be something like:

--[] Even Homura. Especially Homura.

Which isn't really going to fly well.

This relates back to a bigger problem: Homura trying to keep Madoka sheltered. I think that it might be time to pull out the observation that Madoka won't be happy unless she's helping, so the Wish to Fix Everything would necessarily involve giving Madoka a way to help without suffering for it or conflicting with Homura's Wish.

If we work forward from the assumption that Madoka needs to have help to feel fulfilled, and her help needs to not conflict with Homura's goals, what outcomes are possible given those assumptions?
 
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[]You may not feel like you have the right to complain. Doesn't mean you shouldn't. Doesn't mean I wouldn't at least try to work with you, even when I push as you've seen. Whether you see this as a president and their cabinet or a round table, both of them give you the right to whisper in my ear.

Homura may be afraid of breaking things if she attempts to influence us too much though but it seems like an angle worth investigating.
 
For one of Homura's contributions this loop, how about this?

If it weren't for her nonstop searching, we wouldn't have found and captured Oriko; she would be an enemy rather than a tentative ally.

And without Oriko's predictions, Sendai goes to shit, Sayaka gets nommed by that Witch, and probably a few other things.

And God knows what Oriko herself would be getting up to.
 
So thinking more, there's two amazingly sensitive lines of thought in my head that are absolutely important and absolutely easy to fuck up.

And I'm not sure when and how would be a good place to bring them up, though I guess it's more stuff we need to work over time. Not sure what we need to say right now. :/

1: This middle ground thing.

Yeah Homu, you don't get to do your own thing and ignore Doka's wishes. Doka for once took your own wishes into account so you have to play nice and each do your part. You won't be the lone saviour, but you're still Important.

2: Our actualy own contrubution is making everyone work together.

You WILL rely on others anymore, Homu! That's how this human shit works!

...

Hmmm... Are these actually part of the same, bigger point? Homu failed at relying on others and rejected the mere notion (or tried to). Now she wants to do everything herself, and fails.

...

... Maybe what we need to do right now is support the fact Homura is Important? That all that's happening is not us; while Homu might not be 100%'ing the loops Solo mode, she's still vital to all of this.

Homu's afraid we're taking the spotlight away from her. That she will go back into the background and be a burden just like she used to feel when she made her Wish. How do we make Homu feel she's Good?
 
Giving Doka a way to help?

[Q] Send Doka to America to learn psychology and become the best Madotherapist ever and help everyone's mental issues.
-[Q] This will surely work perfectly for everyone involved!
 
SaltyWaffles said:
Anyway, the points I'm driving home here are: Sabrina has huge bargaining chips that Homura could never have possibly had, that Homura has been handicapped from the start and never had a way to recover (her constant trauma hamstringing her social ability and her ability to learn it), that Homura herself has done a remarkable job under the circumstances, and that Sabrina herself would never have gotten as far as she has without help--something Homura never had. Oh, and that Homura is amazing--she really needs to think better of herself--and that all of what we've done has only been accomplished because we've done it together.

@Onmur @Redshirt Army @Torgamous
Thoughts? I feel like this has the best chance of working, here. Introducing stuff like our "subjective weeks to analyze conversations" is bound to just confuse her, and saying that her constant stalking of Madoka has been equal to our efforts is bound to trip her self-doubt and self-loathing issues (she'll doubt that her methods have been making a difference, and that we're just saying they have to make her feel better). Saying that Homura has been doing the best job she possibly could have under the circumstances is liable to avoid that flaw, since it acknowledges her own flaws but excuses them because she had no means to address them. Saying she has made critical differences even with Sabrina present by pointing out stuff like Sayaka being dead or Oriko being at large gives her concrete reasons to value her own efforts. Saying that Sabrina is gifted with a massive bargaining chip with her power that Homura never could have possibly had also makes Homura feel less like she failed and more like she just wasn't equipped to succeed, which is very important for her psyche--it explains why she couldn't succeed without making it her fault in her mind, which is key.
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Your vote simply doesn't go deep enough. Like, imagine an alien spaceship arrived in Earth orbit and we asked them how they got here, and they said "We moved really fast." Yes, that's correct, but it doesn't answer the underlying questions.

In particular, IIRC Homura strongly suspects that we're a direct product of Madoka's Wish. Saying that we just happened to arrive with a super-useful power will make Homura conclude that the Wish to Fix Everything is what's making it work. Attributing everything to Madoka's Wish runs into the "I failed to protect her" problem, as I explained earlier.
 
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Redshirt Army said:
[x] It's because I came along with a change of authors. Since the universe doesn't feel the need to be all suffering all the time, things work out better now. It applies to you too.
-[x] Praise Firnagzen!
--[x] Hey, wanna go burn down Urobuchi's house?
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... you say that as a joke, but given metaphysics here, it's not headed in the wrong direction. **shrug** Magical gay space god and a change of management happened? "We're pretty sure our metaknowledge indicates that what we've been experiencing since our arrival indicates a larger metaphysical change, beyond even what Homura has told us about previous loops and any specific weirdness in this one. I think... I think it's made it so we can succeed doing some things that were nigh impossible, before." Something like that would indicate larger things making it possible for us, while kinda pointing away from Madoka's wish a bit, hopefully. Firn is god too, after all.

I was gonna try and compose an idea, but I think everyone is on about the same page, more or less. And I reckon I trust y'all to come up with a thing. I'll keep up with the vote options, though. The thing about making it clear Homura isn't a burden for not succeeding trying to solo run the endgame boss is important- perhaps the most important, at this one moment, if we want to be successful reassuring her here.

Also, @Omniatrix I'm bookmarking your post because while I think everyone is in agreement that now is not the time to potentialbomb nor imply all this success is down to Madoka's wish, I suspect we'll come to a moment like that, where the fuse starts counting down. And you've got a good way of maybe approaching it.
 
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I think any vote needs to at least mention that we wouldn't be able to do any of the shit we're getting up to if we couldn't rely on her to protect Madoka while we did those things.
 
I think that all of the talk about the details of how we're doing this are immaterial. Fundamentally speaking, there are two points that we must address here.
  1. It's because of Madoka's Wish.
  2. Homura is currently psychologically incapable of accepting Madoka's help.
Those are the only things we need to focus on. There is no chance that Homura has failed to reach point 1. I'm certain that she's feeling her way toward point 2. We need to beat her to it and help her work through it. Somehow.
 
[X] We have a couple of notable advantages.
-[X] It helps that we can be in two places at once. If she remembers the night where Sayaka ran into Kyouko, that scared the crap out of you when Sayaka left. You would have sent her after Sayaka if you hadn't heard back from blue within the hour.
-[X] But even ignoring that... Her looks and bearing, and your sheer stupid power, get both of you a lot of respect as long as you're not the bad guys. When was the last time Mami took on a senpai role towards her? Sayaka looks up to her -- not entirely, but it's there. Things are different from the last time she tried a loop like this, because she's different. And because of it, people are willing to actually listen to her once they count her as their friend. People are willing to let her intervene when she needs to.
[X] And that's really the biggest thing we have going for us personally. Because we share her ability to provide for the team, her ability to command respect -- but the crucial difference is that we haven't been hurt so damn many times that we can't think to reach out to the people around us.

Dunno completely about this. It's accurate as all hell and should give her context for her "I don't understand how this is working" issue... Which I think would be very good for her.

Maybe throw out the first couple lines even. Just go withlinss 3 and 4.
 
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[]You know that picture from Hobbes's Leviathan of a human made of humans?
[]Regardless of what we think on Oriko's current threat level, you're the one that enabled me to get at least some use out of her instead of me having to kill them or still be dealing with them as enemies.
[]Sometimes fate is at your back, and sometimes you're the fate at someone else's back. A state is made of people.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Apr 13, 2018 at 4:41 AM, finished with 269 posts and 31 votes.
  • [X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.
    [X] Ask for temporary full hugging privileges.
    -[X] And to sit down.
    -[X] And to cleanse.
    [X] You're going to do your level best to answer anything she wants to know to the best of your ability. She needs that. If she doesn't want to say anything right now you'll start with your thoughts on why this is working, because that was the most likely thing you made out, but if she wants you to start anywhere else or, or anything...
    -[X] Tone and subtext: push her to engage in this in some manner. It's not really good if she just bottles it back up, this conversation seems like it needs to happen.
    -[X] Absent reason otherwise as pursuant to the previous two lines, subsequently:
    --[X] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
    ---[X] Lay out all your evidence. Kirika's antimagic for Oriko, Nagisa, Anri, timings, Sayaka's behavior.
    ----[X] Madoka's Wish is still helping.
    --[X] Convince Homura that Madoka's Wish guarantees she can find a Good End that satisfies both her and Madoka.
    [x] Godwinson
    [X] Well, to be fair, I have a huge bargaining chip that you never had: free, unlimited cleansing, as well as a massively powerful ally. That sways people, and convinces them that you're worth fighting for in a way that no amount of Grief Seeds ever would.
    [X] "You never really had an opportunity to learn charisma and persuasion skills. And while you've had a lot of time to learn since your Wish, you've also been constantly subjected to immense emotional trauma, with no one who could help you deal with it. That makes charisma and persuasion far more difficult. You've been fighting against a massive handicap all along, with no one to help you and no way to figure out what to do about it. I'd say you've done remarkably well, under the circumstances."
    [X] "Do you have any idea how hard it is to start all over and try again, after losing everything? Most people struggle to do that kind of thing once. You've done it dozens of times, without anyone to even talk to, ever since you were--what? 13? The fact that you haven't given up is, by itself, utterly remarkable. Don't sell yourself short. Everyone needs a helping hand, myself included. I'd never have gotten this far without you, for instance. Sayaka would be dead. Oriko would be at large. Kyubey would probably know everything. And more."
    [X] "You're fucking amazing, Homura, and we've only gotten this far because we've done it together. Also, remember how I came about because of Madoka's Wish? Well, the only reason she ever had a chance to even make that Wish is because of all of your efforts."
    [x] Conversation goal: Attempt to help Homura believe in herself, and a good future, by telling her to have faith in Madoka, who has faith in her, and whose Wish makes it now possible to succeed. Also deal with:
    -[x] The conflict between her promise to Madoka, and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish.
    -[x] Homura not liking herself, feeling that she specifically is why the loops have failed before.
    [x] Overall tone and subtext: Push her to engage with this in some manner. It's not really good if she just bottles it back up, this conversation seems like it needs to happen. Where possible, address all points such that we try and at least get an acknowledgement of each of them. Preferably actual conversation so we have a bit more to respond to than how we've been having to divine Homura's mental state from a truly impressive amount of subtext.
    [X] Permanent: Break to voting whenever Sabrina detects a change in course of action might be merited.
    [x] It wasn't just me, though. It's never been just me. I've been handed so much. Everything we've done- it's been all of us.
    [X] Ask for temporary full hugging privileges. If given, hug as necessary.
    -[X] And to sit down.
    -[X] And to cleanse.
    [x] Tone: Quiet, gentle, explaining, reflecting, not lecturing.
    [x] I've been given so much.
    -[x] Knowledge
    --[x] Literally a guidebook.
    ---[x] Not just what people could do, who they could be, events, information. You've got that.
    ---[x] I was given narrative framing; the exact information that could change things; the certainty that it's the information that matters. And a decent suggestion on where to apply it. That's something you've had to figure out on your own, yeah?
    -[x] Power that specifically derails resource issues
    --[x] The single greatest tool that Homura hadn't been able to leverage before.
    -[x] Tone: Gentle levity, sincerity: And I have you. I get to start with all this information, plus an Akemi Homura.
    --[x] Tone: More serious: Don't sell yourself short. I've said it before, but I stand on the shoulders of giants.
    --[x] Remind Homura: her contributions let us get this far.
    ---[x] She's been the one keeping Madoka safe this whole time.
    ---[x] Holding down the fort while we rush off to deal with out-of-town crises
    ---[x] All the times timestop was an epic force multiplier or let us get there in the nick of time.
    ----[x] Tracking down Oriko
    ----[x] Saving Sayaka from the witch.
    ---[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko.
    ---[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening.
    --[x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory.
    --[x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that we're -just here to help her.
    [x] If there's an indication during any of the above that this is not actually answering Homura's unspoken question, or if we get through the above and it looks like the conversation still has steam to keep going:
    -[x] But there's more than that, we both suspect, huh?
    -[x] I'm just going to say it- we've both got a pretty good idea where I come from. Why I'm here.
    --[x] Tone: Gently: It's pretty likely I'm a result of Madoka's wish last loop. Specially equipped to work on the fixing of everything.
    --[x] But... I don't think it's just me. And I have some thoughts about that, if you want me to try and explain them.
    [x] If we're given no reason to avoid this line of conversation:
    -[x] If you doesn't want to say anything, that's fine. But please- if you want me to start somewhere else, elaborate, go back to a point- anything...
    -[X] Do our best to answer anything she wants to know, explain everything, to the best of our ability. She needs that.
    --[X] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
    --[X] Lay out all your evidence. The timings of events; Nagisa. Echoes of could-have-been-timelines; Sayaka's behaviour. Etc.
    --[X] Madoka's Wish is helping by more than just adding Sabrina
    ---[x] You know how much that must hurt Homura. But that's not the end of the story, because Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that includes Homura's story.
    ----[x] You know that Homura can only be happy if Madoka is safe and Homura is the one protecting her, and you know that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy.
    ---[x] You do mean that you know. Your metaknowledge focuses on some people. The two people it focuses on the most are Madoka and Homura. Madoka cares about Homura, and you're almost certain she Wished thinking of Homura.
    ---[x] Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that means Homura can be saved.
    ---[x] Silently pray to Madokami. She Wished to save Homura, but there's no way unless Homura can accept Her help, so there has to be something like this. Please let this work.
    ---[x] You don't believe that Madoka was tricked into that Wish. You think that she knew enough about Homura to know what she was doing.
    ----[x] Homura's last loop diverges from your metaknowledge, but you know what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, and she wouldn't have made that one without a good reason.
    ----[x] And she decided to Wish that Homura could protect her and find happiness, among other things, and entrusted you and Homura with the future. You will see her will done.
    -[X] Break to voting if any point needs more detail, or if Homura seems troubled. Don't be pushy.
    -[X] Relax. Comment:
    --[X] Homura's hair and higher dimensions.
    --[X] Raiding Yakuza for (4D) pocket money.
    [X] O&K.
    -[X] Probably a 'random' apartment.
    -[X] You don't know the Kure adults. Could be a bad idea.
    [X] Everyone.
    -[X] Explain your discomfort when dropping heavy topics. Ask if there's anything you can do to make it less stressful?
    -[X] Offer to watch the spar video.
    [X] Put in an order for the tracking devices.
    [X] If there's time, practice enchantment:
    -[X] Try using Control Magic...
    --[X] On Grief.
    --[X] To shape something into a Pocket Brina.
    [X] "Most people don't pop out of nowhere with a good idea as to how to fix the problems of a bunch of other people they never met but remember really well. I can't say for certain how I'm here, but we both probably have a good guess. If a wish is powerful... What about a wish that helps other wishes? "
    [x] Conversation goal: Attempt to help Homura believe in herself and her future by telling her to have faith in Madokami who has faith in her and Wished to fix everything.
    -[x] The conflict between the promise she made to Madoka and the fact that things are going well because of Madoka's Wish.
    -[x] Homura not liking herself.
    [x] Lead in with Asunaro being too blatantly better to be a convenient butterfly.
    [x] Lay out all your evidence. Kirika's antimagic for Oriko, Nagisa, Anri, timings, Sayaka's behavior.
    [x] Madoka's Wish is still helping.
    [x] You know how much that must hurt Homura. But that's not the end of the story, because Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that includes Homura's story.
    -[x] You know that Homura can only be happy if Madoka is safe and Homura is the one protecting her, and you know that Madoka can only be happy if Homura is happy.
    [x] You do mean that you know. Your metaknowledge focuses on some people. The two people it focuses on the most are Madoka and Homura. Madoka cares about Homura, and you're almost certain she Wished thinking of Homura.
    [x] Madoka wished that everything could be fixed. And that means Homura can be saved.
    [x] Silently pray to Madokami. She Wished to save Homura, but there's no way unless Homura can accept Her help, so there has to be something like this. Please let this work.
    [x] You don't believe that Madoka was tricked into that Wish. You think that she knew enough about Homura to know what she was doing.
    -[x] Homura's last loop diverges from your metaknowledge, but you know what kinds of Wishes Madoka makes, and she wouldn't have made that one without a good reason.
    -[x] And she decided to Wish that Homura could protect her and find happiness, among other things, and entrusted you and Homura with the future. You will see her will done.
    [X] "Homura."
    -[X] Hug the stuffing out of her.
    [X] You don't have sufficient details of her early loops to truly compare and contrast, so you don't know if you can really give her a perfect answer as to why.
    -[X] But you'll damn well try if she asks. Any time, any where, for any topic, even if it takes you napping in timestop.
    [x] (If in the course of the conversation, bolstering Homura's sense of self-worth doesn't seem to be the issue at hand after all, break to voting.)
    [x] (In the following, the use of first-person plural does not refer to Sabrina as usual, but to Sabrina and Homura and everyone as a group.)
    [x] It's working for us. We did this together.
    [x] Emphasize that we've accomplished as much as we have by being a team.
    [x] Remind Homura of her contributions that made it possible for us to get this far.
    -[x] All the times timestop was an epic force multiplier or let us get there in the nick of time.
    -[x] Keeping Madoka safe this whole time.
    -[x] Tracking down Oriko in timestop.
    -[x] Letting us get to Sayaka in time to save her from the witch.
    -[x] Watching over Sayaka when she stormed off and ran straight into Kyouko.
    -[x] Even just giving us this safe space to talk without Kyubey listening.
    [x] The only reason any of this is possible is because of Homura's strength, because Homura fought and persevered all alone for years to carve out a chance at victory.
    [x] Make sure that Homura knows that she is incredible and the hero of this story, that she is the one who will save Madoka, and that we're just here to help her.
    [x] Provide much comfort and reassurance.
    [X] Null
    [x] Wait to see if Homura has more to say.
    -[x] If she doesn't, Vebyast's vote.
    [x] Hold a serious conversation with Homura about the issues she expressed in the last post, doing everything you can to keep her actively involved in it. Aim to allay any fears she may have, explain as best you can anything she doesn't understand, and generally just help the poor girl not end up feeling like she's trash. Don't drop the potentialbomb.
    [x]No matter how well things seem to go for me, my time is finite, as is the time of anybody else I've brought into this aspiring shadow government. I can't be everywhere at once.
    -[x]Example of force multiplier time stop provides that makes protecting Madoka possible.
    -[x]Break to listening/ soliciting further engagement with Brinapilot fear alleviation/explanation as needed.
    -[x](Response on Standby for concerns about her not being the one to do it personally)Governments are made of people. You know that picture from Hobbes' s Leviathan of a person made of people? You're part of the Leviathan too. The accomplishments of the Leviathan are the accomplishments of all the people it's made of.
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