- Location
- Illinois
*inhales*
*exhales*
Right, I do feel this is flawed. Where to start...
Alright. All the current problems on Sayaka's end started when our response to this was to bullshit:
That was how we responded to Sayaka asking why we wanted to cancel the house arrest.
It's full of shit (as are most conversation segments that land us in hot water).
The immediate action by GW is as follows:
This goes to some very good and important points -- that... thing that we opened this conversation with was disgusting. However, we need to address, immediately, and without bullshitting further, the simple question Sayaka asked us:
Instead the GW vote calls for us to first apologize for unrelated things and reassure everyone that we won't do anything without permission, as we just said five seconds ago:
Now, I want to be clear, both of these opening lines on the GW vote are good things to do, they just need to not be taking precedence over addressing Sayaka's question, because we don't need to spend another ten paragraphs avoiding the question, however unintentionally. That's sort of been a recurring theme with Sayaka in my experience, we don't just honestly and swiftly address her questions and it results in crap ballooning for no reason. We should avoid that here.
So, what I think we should do first is this:
[] You're doing the thing where you fail to actually answer her question again, aren't you?
Immediately, let's acknowledge where it was that we most recently and significantly screwed up.
Second, let's hit the next part where we screwed up.
[] The full explanation for that is going to be a little long but needs to happen. There's a lot of background. Before that, apologize to Sayaka -- You had honestly been wanting to establish general process for handling future events, and didn't think about how manipulative it might look -- how manipulative it might be.
Third, let's get on the actual explanation. I dunno how much privacy is warranted here and I'm more than willing to leave that to other peoples' discretion. GW seems to think we want privacy for it, so on the basis that he's a smart cookie I'm stealing that line from him.
[] Arrange for privacy for all four, by timestop or griefhax. If griefhax is used, employ grief fog to hunt down hidden Incubators within field.
Now, Godwinson performs actual explanation with the following:
There's a lot to like about this. The overall goal here is to establish that the house arrest is either/both extreme or unhealthy. I'm not sure why it can't be summed up as
[] Go over your metaknowledge of Oriko's pre-contracting background in detail. Cover all the traumas and their impacts on her. This might take a while but it needs to be done and it needs to be done thoroughly. Two goals: humanizing Oriko, making it clear that the house arrest is Not Good For Her. Also, cover the contents and context of her wish.
But I honestly don't mind the state it's in currently. I think it could be simpler or improved or what-have-you, but most things could and I don't think it's anything less than fine. also i never liked the word limit anyway
I think we could stand to go a bit further here, though, in pointing out that Oriko's actions, whatever the motives, were fucking stupid. It's a critical part of the whole argument we've found surrounding Oriko that her precognition was actively harmful to her in ways that shouldn't have manifested without interference -- that is, if her precog had been unbiased she should have found better options than she did. I think Godwinson tries to cover this with "... she would only act if she thought it would be self-sacrificingly 'heroic'", but I'd like to see a good bit more emphasis on that. The point is/was that her precog would show her only options that pitted her against us because her emotions were interfering with it. I believe we should be laying out for the group the entire body of beliefs concerning Oriko which we are running on. That will require discussing everything that lead up to On A Rail 31 and this is a pre-requisite in that. So, I'd like to add something like this...
[] Cover what you believe about the (mal)function of Oriko's precognition, stemming from her traumas and background.
We could additionally make a case around Oriko's wish. I do think the natural path for Oriko to work out the purpose of her life would be to run around exploring tons of different things and then eventually realize that the only part of any of it that really matters to her is Kirika, and in that context it could definitely be said that the house arrest is actively contributing to her problems on that end. I'm not certain how necessary it is -- I think it depends on how much Godwinson's vote lays out a case for just relocating them as opposed to both relocating them and offering regular "away time." And... I'm not sure of that.
Then lastly GW hits the "options."
I don't actually like ending here, with this. I think there's a lot we're leaving unsaid and a lot that should still be said.
For one thing, I don't think the Godwinson vote says anything about the events of On A Rail 31, which leaves Oriko's state open-ended. Which... isn't okay, I think, and I think @Godwinson should probably add something to his vote to cover that. Best not to leave things on "this is why she decided to burn down Sayaka's house" without clarifying that she has been given significant reason to stop that sort of behavior / thinking / etc. For that reason, I propose at this stage
[] Cover Kirika's wish, its results, what you said about it to Oriko in On A Rail 31, her reaction, and the implications involved in all of it.
I want to point out here that carrying out all of this will for the first time actually convey in full to the rest of the group our views on Oriko. This sort of thing has a history of working well and I don't think anything less is acceptable or intelligent -- O&K have caused enough internal strife that not actually laying out everything (minus restricted information) we're basing our actions towards them on for the group seems dumb when you think about it, in my opinion. On top of that, I think it will be good for Homura to get the whole view we're taking on this.
Lastly, we'll want to examine options. I think Godwinson does a good enough job of it and really, my main desire here is to see another round of full, honest, and accurate communication of information to the rest of our group. So I'm gonna steal that stuff from him and call it a post.
[X] Rules: Do not reveal loops, do not witchbomb, do not potential bomb. Do not interrupt others, break update for vote if a response is required that is not covered by this vote. Sabrina's tone should be calm, thoughtful, conciliatory. No braindamage, full serious mode.
[X] You're doing the thing where you fail to actually answer her question again, aren't you?
[X] The full explanation for that is going to be a little long but needs to happen. There's a lot of background. Before that, apologize to Sayaka -- You had honestly been wanting to establish general process for handling future events, and didn't think about how manipulative it might look.
[X] Arrange for privacy for all four, by timestop or griefhax. If griefhax is used, employ grief fog to hunt down hidden Incubators within field.
[X] Go over your metaknowledge of Oriko's pre-contracting background in detail. Cover all the traumas and their impacts on her. This might take a while but it needs to be done and it needs to be done thoroughly. Two goals: humanizing Oriko, making it clear that the house arrest is Not Good For Her. Also, cover the contents and context of her wish.
[X] Cover what you believe about the (mal)function of Oriko's precognition, stemming from her traumas and background.
[X] Cover Kirika's wish, its results, what you said about it to Oriko in On A Rail 31, her reaction, and the implications involved in all of it.
[X] Make proposal:
-[X] Change imprisonment location. Add electronic security to location.
-[X] Add mundane and magical tracking to O&K. Mami tracking ribbon and house arrest ankle tracker as concrete examples.
-[X] Scheduled outings with guard(s) -- prisoners get yard time, after all.
-[X] Bring up having a Sayaklone guard.
-[X] Continued community service.
-[X] Any anti-magic used on security measures, or other sort of break-out attempt, escalates our response and their punishment. Make this clear to O&K.
-[X] Make it clear you'd accept suggestions. This isn't "my way or the highway".
-[X] If proposal is insufficiently punishing, ask what would be sufficient.
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