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Puella Magi Adfligo Systema

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Right away Boss!

Let's re-focus the Rin conversation! Thinking caps, tell me if this is not better.

Let's talk with Rin in the mindset of doing good right now, not just kinda offering positive social. Help her.

Help both by sharing the threat environment ideas, Walpurgisnacht and raiders, and by inspiring her to solve her problems at home.

Do we understand what is happening in Sendai? Yes. They are depressed, and they have no goals. Rin confirmed?

The thing Rin could use is insight. And the issue is Wish.

Let her hear that in one sense, Kyuubey can't understand. A human life has motion, towards a goal. Kyuubey grants a girl's wish, in a single transaction. Done, you got your pay, now start fighting (and dying) for the Universe. But real wishes don't stop, that force continues as part of the girl for her whole life. If she doesn't abandon her wish.

Sendai were all busy following Akiko down her path. Sabrina closed that path. But opened another. Rin could be helping each of her girls re-connect with her Wish. They now have safety and magic to spare, so waiting around for someone else to give them a direction is wrong. Pull from inside them the directions they need. Try to get Sakura to think about what her wish means - as a principle for her own life, not a contract. All that anger she's throwing around would not be present, if she was actualizing herself.

In the end, Rin should try to help her girls, be real girls again, not a warband. They need to develop as people, and the Clear Seed means that they can be normal, rather than terminal Grief patients.

[X] Rin, Sakura.
-[X] Be brief. Promise emotional support.
-[X] Acknowledge how Rin stood up for her friends, and helped Akiko. ###Big Change###
-[X] Ask Rin how she is doing. Take her answer at face value.
-[X] Talk about the importance of understanding that a Wish is never over, and her girls need help to get up and pursue each of theirs.
-[X] Get hit by Sakura, take it well. Give her an invitation to come back and spar sometime.
--[X] Curse back at her.

An awesome leader can inspire others to be great leaders, too. Go for this. It ups our potential to scale the operation. And will impress Mami and Yuki both.

Torgamous said:
[] Ask Kazumi if she wants in on the mutual defense pact.
-[] It's kind of understood that we have one, but it might be fun to make it official.
--[] Ooh, let's make it a summit! We can wear fancy wigs and bang gavels and then sign our names really big on a fancy piece of parchment!
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Pretty good! Really.

-[X] Let's make it a summit!
-[X] Ask Kazumi if she wants in on the mutual defense pact.
--[X] It's kind of understood that we have one, but it might be fun to make it official.
 
So I've had a small, niggling assumption for days, that I didn't quite put into words because of how simple it seems, but I assume if Oriko will be listening through telepathy, she could and maybe would try to speak through us, try to ask us to say this or that, point out anything she feels is important.

You know, more like when we first put her on house arrest and she kept trying to act vicariously through us.

[X] Rin, Sakura.
-[X] Be brief.
-[X] Acknowledge how Rin stood up to her friends, to do the right thing by the UG.
--[X] Let her know the UG are doing much better.
-[X] Ask Rin how she is doing. Take her answer at face value.

[X] Back home.

[X] Update O&K, let them listen in.
-[ ] Apologize: Homura and Sayaka... strongly veto'd their participation.
-[ ] Ask Oriko to let you know of any glaring mistakes.

[X] Mumihugs.

[X] Madoka and Hitomi.
-[X] Paint a hopeful, yet reserved impression of the Fukushima. It's safer they don't attend this meeting.

[X] Defense pact.
-[X] Small talk. Make sure everybody orders first; you're paying.
-[X] Light touch for now, keep things in a positive track.
 
@Onmur , don't you think if Firn cut short the last update saying that this conversation deserved more screen time, that we might not get past it to the full rest of the defense meeting et all?

And moreso, that it's a hint of it being enough of a chance to matter that we should devote the full vote towards trying to do it right, not just another throwaway encouragement/probing to Rin that didn't work earlier in our visit?

Seem to remember you had a longer version earlier that seemed good, drawing attention in detail to how (even if it was less than successful) her behavior during the ceasefire talks and elsewhere was admirable and helpful. After all, if nothing else it showed the University Girls that were was hope for peace and reconciliation if Sendai could be forced back to the table?
 
Racoras said:
@Onmur , don't you think if Firn cut short the last update saying that this conversation deserved more screen time, that we might not get past it to the full rest of the defense meeting et all?

And moreso, that it's a hint of it being enough of a chance to matter that we should devote the full vote towards trying to do it right, not just another throwaway encouragement/probing to Rin that didn't work earlier in our visit?

Seem to remember you had a longer version earlier that seemed good, drawing attention in detail to how (even if it was less than successful) her behavior during the ceasefire talks and elsewhere was admirable and helpful. After all, if nothing else it showed the University Girls that were was hope for peace and reconciliation if Sendai could be forced back to the table?
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Eh... I could expand it, but I feel it better we don't take too long on it; (one of) Sakura's problem(s) with us is our meddling. The longer we keep them, the more she's likely to explode.

Also, I use Firn's vote prompts as a sort of guide to how far to vote. He'll stop where he wants to stop, so I see no harm in voting forward a bit. Hell, sometimes we vote for lots of things and he even manages to go through the whole lot of them, the madman!



[X] Rin, Sakura.
-[X] Break to vote if social explosions.
-[X] Acknowledge Rin for standing up to her friends, trying to do right by the UG, and taking responsibility onto her own shoulders.
--[X] Thank her, and let her know the UG are doing much better.
-[X] Ask Rin how she is doing. Take her answer at face value.
--[X] Offer any help you can give, even if it's just talking.

[X] Back home.

[X] Mumihugs.

[X] Update O&K, let them listen in.
-[X] Apologize: Homura and Sayaka... strongly veto'd their participation.
-[X] Ask Oriko to let you know of any glaring points/mistakes.

[X] Madoka and Hitomi.
-[X] Paint a hopeful, yet reserved impression of the Fukushima. It's safer they don't attend this meeting.

[X] Defense pact.
-[X] Small talk. Make sure everybody orders first; you're paying.
-[X] Light touch for now, keep things in a positive track.

Most important change: Moved 'mumihugs' to right after 'going home'.
 
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Onmur said:
[X] Rin, Sakura.
-[X] Break to vote if social explosions.
-[X] Acknowledge Rin for standing up to her friends, trying to do right by the UG, and taking responsibility onto her own shoulders.
--[X] Thank her, and let her know the UG are doing much better.
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I have serious doubts about the odds of getting a positive response with this approach, especially with Sakura in the room.
 
Onmur said:
Your suggestion?
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off the top of my head we could actually do something like the previous joke vote I wrote. Apologize and tell Rin she's good people. No justifications and no rationalizations. Just straight up tell her we have no regrets for WHAT we did but we are sorry for leaving her to pick up the mess.

Let's just be as subtle and direct as our warhammer - it will give us something useful, sincerity.
 
DB_Explorer said:
off the top of my head we could actually do something like the previous joke vote I wrote. Apologize and tell Rin she's good people. No justifications and no rationalizations. Just straight up tell her we have no regrets for WHAT we did but we are sorry for leaving her to pick up the mess.

Let's just be as subtle and direct as our warhammer - it will give us something useful, sincerity.
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Something I have had in mind, that I guess doesn't show, is that we may apologize for not having acknowledging Rin's role up until now.

I was gonna do something more like:

[] Rin, Sakura.
-[] Apologize to Rin: Acknowledge her efforts and courage, which you should have done before.
--[] She did the right thing, for her group and the UG thank her for that, and let her know the UG are doing much better now.

But thread discussion makes me feel it wouldn't appreciated.

I feel we have apologized time and again for leaving Rin to pick up the mess, or at least I'm getting the idea from thread?
 
Onmur said:
Something I have had in mind, that I guess doesn't show, is that we may apologize for not having acknowledging Rin's role up until now.

I was gonna do something more like:

[] Rin, Sakura.
-[] Apologize to Rin: Acknowledge her efforts and courage, which you should have done before.
--[] She did the right thing, for her group and the UG thank her for that, and let her know the UG are doing much better now.

But thread discussion makes me feel it wouldn't appreciated.

I feel we have apologized time and again for leaving Rin to pick up the mess, or at least I'm getting the idea from thread?
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I honestly don't remember its been awhile.

edit: also on it being appreciated or not. *shrugs*

My first social instincts were what I posted earlier
My second ones, which work if we already apologized is to be more circumspect with our relations (IE no running over them metaphorically) Basically be polite and professional and signal that we which to consider them friends, or at least cordial associates despite everything. The idea being that they can feel, if they need to, that they can ask us for help.

then again I always default to polite and professional for social.....
 
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I mean we could go BLUNTER.

[ ] Fucking sideline Sakura if necessary. :/
-[Q] "Shut the fuck up, Sakura." :V
[ ] Rin.
-[ ] We're sorry we couldn't do better, and that we left her to pick up the pieces. She must feel out of her depth.
-[ ] At the same time, thank Rin for taking charge, having the courage to stand up to her friends, and trying to do the right thing not just for her group, but for Chouko, Haru, Rei and Yuko. They're doing great nowadays, and it's partly thanks to her.
-[ ] Ask how she is doing. Prod if necessary: Share you feel she's dealing with a lot of stress.
-[ ] Offer any help you can give, even if it's just talking.
Adhoc vote count started by Firnagzen on Mar 7, 2018 at 4:10 PM, finished with 133930 posts and 14 votes.
  • [X] Rin, Sakura.
    -[X] Thank them for their help.
    -[X] Ask Rin how she's doing. Show concern.
    -[X] Provide any advice or support that she needs.
    -[X] Potentially:
    --[X] Apologize for dropping the fallout on Rin's shoulders, back then.
    --[X] Thank her trying to do the right thing.
    --[X] Share the UG are doing much better.
    [X] Rin, Sakura.
    -[X] Objectives:
    --[X] Find what's bothering them.
    --[X] Don't make things worse.
    -[X] Conditional objectives?:
    --[X] Apologize to Rin.
    --[X] Give Rin the acknowledgement/support she needs.
    -[X] Possible specifics:
    --[X] Ask how's Rin/Sakura doing, personally.
    --[X] Comment how they make a nice couple.
    --[X] Ask what's bothering/wrong.
    --[X] Say you'd like to maintain cordial relations?
    ---[X] You could agree to help each other in some way, or even hang out some times, so you can get to know each other outside a battlefield, or a 'formal' meeting.
    --[X] Let Rin know the UG are doing better.
    [X] Rin, Sakura.
    -[X] Thank them for their help.
    -[X] Ask Rin how she's doing. Show concern.
    -[X] Potentially:
    --[X] Apologize for dropping the fallout on Rin's shoulders, back then.
    --[X] Thank her trying to do the right thing.
    --[X] Share the UG are doing much better.
    [X] Rin, Sakura.
    -[X] Be brief. Promise emotional support.
    -[X] Acknowledge how Rin stood up for her friends, and helped Akiko. ###Big Change###
    -[X] Ask Rin how she is doing. Take her answer at face value.
    -[X] Talk about the importance of understanding that a Wish is never over, and her girls need help to get up and pursue each of theirs.
    -[X] Get hit by Sakura, take it well. Give her an invitation to come back and spar sometime.
    --[X] Curse back at her. (conditional, done to express fondness)
    [X] Let's make it a summit! Share threat info freely.
    -[X] Ask Kazumi if she wants in on the mutual defense pact.
    --[X] It's kind of understood that we have one, but it might be fun to make it official.
    [X] Rin, Sakura.
    -[X] Be brief.
    -[X] Acknowledge how Rin stood up to her friends, to do the right thing by the UG.
    --[X] Let her know the UG are doing much better.
    -[X] Ask Rin how she is doing. Take her answer at face value.
    [X] Back home.
    [X] Update O&K, let them listen in.
    [X] Mumihugs.
    [X] Madoka and Hitomi.
    -[X] Paint a hopeful, yet reserved impression of the Fukushima. It's safer they don't attend this meeting.
    [X] Defense pact.
    -[X] Small pact. Make sure everybody orders first; you're paying.
    -[X] Light touch for now, keep things in a positive track.
    [X] Redshirt Army
    [X] Show concern. Ask Rin how she's doing.
Click to expand...
 
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You know, I could completely understand if everyone in the Sendai group wanted absolutely nothing to do with Sabrina. From their perspective: Sabrina butted her nose into their out-of-town business, lichbombed the imouto of the group in a rather nasty way, and then followed it up by going to their home town and fucking over the status quo for them, in the process rendering their friend and leader catatonic from emotional distress. And the entire time Sabrina was supremely confident (arrogant and possibly condescending) in body language and often tone, is clearly a foreigner yet her Japanese is utterly flawless and precise (which easily lends itself to sounding condescending), and insists that what she's doing is for everyone's own good all the while painting your group as the bad guys for doing what they've needed to do in order to survive.

I'm honestly surprised Sakura's name for Sabrina starts with a W and not a B.
 
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Onmur said:
Your suggestion?
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I'm not sure yet, but... not this. This is not going to mend fences.

Congratulating Rin for going against Sakura, right in front of Sakura, seems almost certain to piss Sakura off and get us into an argument. Sakura might be acting like a total shithead right now, but she's Rin's friend, and alienating her will alienate Rin.

I also feel like if we're going to express concern for Rin, we need to open with that. Firstly, because it shows that we care before we start pushing an agenda (and congratulating her for doing what we wanted her to do is going to feel like pushing an agenda). And secondly, because right now we're just assuming we know what her problem is. We don't actually know the source of her stress. Is it the burden on leadership? Is she catching shit from the rest of her team? Is Akiko trying to undermine her and retake control? Is she doubting herself? Is she overworking herself? Does she feel directionless, purposeless, empty and numb and disconnected? If she's willing to tell us, then we'll be in a far better position to give advice. If not, then at least we might be able to glean something from her responses, and we'll have shown her some empathy before we start with the speechifying.
 
The Narrator said:
I'm not sure yet, but... not this. This is not going to mend fences.

Congratulating Rin for going against Sakura, right in front of Sakura, seems almost certain to piss Sakura off and get us into an argument. Sakura might be acting like a total shithead right now, but she's Rin's friend, and alienating her will alienate Rin.

I also feel like if we're going to express concern for Rin, we need to open with that. Firstly, because it shows that we care before we start pushing an agenda (and congratulating her for doing what we wanted her to do is going to feel like pushing an agenda). And secondly, because right now we're just assuming we know what her problem is. We don't actually know the source of her stress. Is it the burden on leadership? Is she catching shit from the rest of her team? Is Akiko trying to undermine her and retake control? Is she doubting herself? Is she overworking herself? Does she feel directionless, purposeless, empty and numb and disconnected? If she's willing to tell us, then we'll be in a far better position to give advice. If not, then at least we might be able to glean something from her responses, and we'll have shown her some empathy before we start with the speechifying.
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OK, so, I like this. Maybe...

Racoras said:
And moreso, that it's a hint of it being enough of a chance to matter that we should devote the full vote towards trying to do it right, not just another throwaway encouragement/probing to Rin that didn't work earlier in our visit?
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We should ask for a short update?

E.g.

[] Rin, Sakura,
-[] Show your concern, share you feel they're stressed.
-[] Ask how they are doing, personally?
[] Break to voting?
 
Godwinson said:
You know, I could completely understand if everyone in the Sendai group wanted absolutely nothing to do with Sabrina. From their perspective: Sabrina butted her nose into their out-of-town business, lichbombed the imouto of the group in a rather nasty way, and then followed it up by going to their home town and fucking over the status quo for them, in the process rendering their friend and leader catatonic from emotional distress. And the entire time Sabrina was supremely confident (arrogant and possibly condescending) in body language and often tone, is clearly a foreigner yet her Japanese is utterly flawless and precise (which easily lends itself to sounding condescending), and insists that what she's doing is for everyone's own good all the while painting your group as the bad guys for doing what they've needed to do in order to survive.

I'm honestly surprised Sakura's name for Sabrina starts with a W and not a B.
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That's their side of the things, and it's good to keep perspective, however.

If we lay it on thick, Sendai Group had been led by a megalomaniac who made it a point to extort another group of pre-adolescent girls for the only thing that guaranteed their survival, all the while steering up conflicts in the general vicinity. And they stood by her, even though they knew what she was doing is wrong.

It is as much their fault as it is ours that Akiko went catatonic, because they chose to ignore the warning signs at least Sakura had been aware of and followed her anyway until she and Sabrina clashed. Figuratively speaking, instead of diverting the school bus they watched as it brazenly drove itself off from a cliff.

And about seeming condescending because your language skills are perfect. Could you please elaborate? I speak four ( strictly two, if you don't count my blabbering in Deutsch or Kalmyk as speaking, as well you shouldn't ) languages, none of them so well I would be proud of it, but if I did speak English, for example, flawlessly, I would take immense pride in it. Would it make me arrogant in the eyes of native users of the language?

Totally agree on holier than thou attitude, though. It's a common enough problem in protagonists to combat with, that and survival instincts of a suicidal lemming that tend to be interpreted as extremely low self esteem.
 
Onmur said:
--[Q] Get reck'd. The thrown object was a distraction before the real throw threat: Sakura herself.
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She can teleport, surely you can better than that.

Onmur said:
[] Rin, Sakura,
-[] Show your concern, share you feel they're stressed.
-[] Ask how they are doing, personally?
[] Break to voting?
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Well, it's been drowned in my usual antics, but really:
How about just asking Rin if anything is wrong. Because it's obvious just by looking at her to see that she's stressed.
Again, if Rin doesn't answer, I feel there is a good chance of Sakura putting her two cents in.

Matou Sutegobana said:
[X] Redshirt Army
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Redshirt Army is apparently such a good votecrafter people bandwagon him in advance.
 
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You know, I think I'd be quite partial to telling Sakura to shut the fuck up if she tries butting in further. We've been nothing but polite and cordial with her-- friendly, even-- because we know she doesn't like us. She seems to think that that's us being arrogant and patronizing.
 
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