Voting is open
[X][ACTION] Fight him into submission before you do anything else.
[X][RESOLUTION] Interrogate him.
-[X][RESOLUTION] Consult the sorcerers for their opinions on magic solutions (next update has a vote on the various options the sorcerers present).
--[X][RESOLUTION] See if he is a wish-granting dragon and, if he is, coerce one from him. (x1.25, from, "Ambitious")
 
[X][ACTION] Try one last time to talk him down before fighting.
[X][RESOLUTION] Interrogate him.
-[X][RESOLUTION] Consult the sorcerers for their opinions on magic solutions (next update has a vote on the various options the sorcerers present).
--[X][RESOLUTION] Try to secure his cooperation with your decision on what to do with him.

The reason I personally worry about trying to seal it is much like everyone else said.
1: There's no previous examples of sealing a person into another person in any variation of Dragon Ball; the only beings that were sealed in the first place certainly weren't held there permanently.
2: There's no support that such a seal will work like in Naruto (which I'm assuming the idea came from) where we get a convenient power battery with absolutely no downside.
3: Heck, even in Naruto, the number of demon containers that were perfectly sane and functional was below the 50% mark. (Killer B was about the sanest of the lot, and he was on good terms with his 'roommate'. There's no way the GIANT EVIL SPACE DRAGON THAT WANTS TO KILL US ALL will be all buddy buddy as soon as it's in our head.)
4: And that's supposing the seal works exactly as intended, with no weird glitches or fuck ups that could, for example, explode the host's head.
 
I'm not really sure I want to know how you're thinking we go about doing that in a relevant timeframe. Besides, we're already doing well on that front - your idea of a podcast is about to become incredibly popular given we're now the single most famous person on Garenhuld, and we're basically demonstrating how to use the stuff we used to save the world and defeat the Unknown. The collective PL of Garenhuld is likely to go up by a non-negligible amount.
Oops just realized that if a sizable part of the population gets a power level high enough that they can't be stopped by conventional law enforcement then the Saiyans will have to take over the world.
:drevil:

We have learned from Dad. Create a problem then gain power by providing the solution.

Edit: However the blog is supposed to be focused on non combat forms of ki.
 
Last edited:
As regards raising average planetary power level...

Of the boost we're getting from Spirit Saiyan, almost all of that is the Exiles. Average Exile power level of 1.5 to 2 million, multiplied by 300,000 Exiles, gives 450 to 600 billion.

The population of Garenhuld is almost certainly less than that of Earth given how many utterly desolate and unpopulated areas the planet has. As a rough guide, we can estimate about three billion. If every single Garenhulder trained their power level up to 1,000, that would give us something like 3 trillion- less if Garenhuld is noticeably less populous than that, which I suspect.

Having all the Exiles go through a few years of serious power level training (say, enough to push them up to or past the point of diminishing returns, average more like 7.5 million instead of 1.5-2) would give us another 1.6-1.8 trillion.

Honestly, given how few teachers we have available and the inherent hazards and dangers of adjusting to a society where the average citizen is as powerful as Raditz, and in all probability tens of millions of people can blow up the planet as opposed to 'merely' hundreds of thousands...

I think that training up the Exiles is a better bet, at least until the "average saiyan warrior" hits diminishing returns. Among other things it's almost certainly a LOT less work for the average Exile to train up to a power level of 7.5 million than to train a large enough number of Garenhulder natives to produce an aggregate planetary power level boost of 7.5 million.

Oops just realized that if a sizable part of the population gets a power level high enough that they can't be stopped by conventional law enforcement then the Saiyans will have to take over the world.
:drevil:

We have learned from Dad. Create a problem then gain power by providing the solution.
The flip side is that combining this with the aftermath of the Dragon/Aliens arcs is almost certainly going to totally blow up the Masquerade, in the sense of "might as well go SSJ2, because the Enemy's gonna hear about us sooner or later."

And I'm not sure Spirit Saiyan alone will make us a match for the Enemy. It's a LOT of ki... but ultimately, it is specifically and only ki. Beating the Enemy may well require something more than that.
 
[X][ACTION] Try one last time to talk him down before fighting.
[X][RESOLUTION] Interrogate him.
-[X][RESOLUTION] Consult the sorcerers for their opinions on magic solutions (next update has a vote on the various options the sorcerers present).
--[X][RESOLUTION] Try to secure his cooperation with your decision on what to do with him.
---[X][RESOLUTION] See if he is a wish-granting dragon and, if he is, coerce one from him. (x1.25, from, "Ambitious")
 
[X][ACTION] Fight him into submission before you do anything else.
[X][RESOLUTION] Consult the sorcerers for their opinions on magic solutions (next update has a vote on the various options the sorcerers present).
-[X][RESOLUTION] Interrogate him.
--[X][RESOLUTION] Try to secure his cooperation with your decision on what to do with him.
 
Damn that was awesome catching up on. Personally I'd vote for killing him, but I doubt that's going to happen. Anyways Spirit Saiyan looks like fun.
 
The flip side is that combining this with the aftermath of the Dragon/Aliens arcs is almost certainly going to totally blow up the Masquerade, in the sense of "might as well go SSJ2, because the Enemy's gonna hear about us sooner or later."

And I'm not sure Spirit Saiyan alone will make us a match for the Enemy. It's a LOT of ki... but ultimately, it is specifically and only ki. Beating the Enemy may well require something more than that.
If our use of genki dama gets out via the invaders, that might be the case. But Garenhuld is in the bonnies and you need a really high power level for it to be sensed so far out so people would need to get really close to detect something weird going on. If the aliens choose to travel the galaxy or sends messages once they settle here, then yeah, people will hear of a planet full of ki users but given that most of them will be human I wouldn't go that far.
 
[X][ACTION] Fight him into submission before you do anything else.

[X][RESOLUTION] Consult the sorcerers for their opinions on magic solutions (next update has a vote on the various options the sorcerers present).
-[X][RESOLUTION] Interrogate him.
--[X][RESOLUTION] Use telepathy to transmit the sensation of the revelation you've just experienced into his head. Maybe that will help to reform him.
---[X][RESOLUTION] Try to secure his cooperation with your decision on what to do with him.
 
Oh, @PoptartProdigy , if you don't mind my asking... what was the DC on the willpower check to control Spirit Saiyan? Did it literally require a natural 100, or could we have passed it with more than a 1% chance of success?
With your modifiers, you needed to roll a 94. I actually set that DC at some point during Year 2; I'm impressed passing it was possible in the first place.
@PoptartProdigy, could we seal him away by freezing him in ice a la Megatron?
In reality, freezing organic beings is a fancy and somewhat sadistic method of execution. Absent magic, the same is true here.
 
1) The dragon somehow vying for control of our body when we spirit-walk

2) The dragon somehow vying for control of our body when we sleep

3) The dragon finding a way to send at least limited information or energy through its Seal (as Jaffur, for example, has) and using that ability against us.

4) The dragon constantly trying to corrupt us which would be at best an annoying distraction

5) Our own attempts to somehow draw power or knowledge from the dragon via some kind of one-way passage through the Seal accidentally setting it loose.
1) No evidence, and I question how that happened.
2) If that's happening, then the sealing is faulty.
3) More plausible, but such a thing would be happening with normal seals, and I trust Kakara more then I trust normal guards.
4) Any Seal would almost certainly come with a "mute" button.
5) Again, if the Seal is that faulty, then normal sealing was going to be a problem.
The reason I personally worry about trying to seal it is much like everyone else said.
1: There's no previous examples of sealing a person into another person in any variation of Dragon Ball; the only beings that were sealed in the first place certainly weren't held there permanently.
2: There's no support that such a seal will work like in Naruto (which I'm assuming the idea came from) where we get a convenient power battery with absolutely no downside.
3: Heck, even in Naruto, the number of demon containers that were perfectly sane and functional was below the 50% mark. (Killer B was about the sanest of the lot, and he was on good terms with his 'roommate'. There's no way the GIANT EVIL SPACE DRAGON THAT WANTS TO KILL US ALL will be all buddy buddy as soon as it's in our head.)
4: And that's supposing the seal works exactly as intended, with no weird glitches or fuck ups that could, for example, explode the host's head.
1) Actually, there kinda is: Namekian "Fusion"and Majin Buu's Absorption. Possibly Cells assimilation of 17 and 18 as well, consider he ended up puking 18 out.
2) It actually came from the RP, where there's a similar situation, and a Discord channel which has both me and Fourth, where I wondered if, with its telepathy, Dazarel could transfer it's mind/soul into a new body.
3) Kurama wasn't buddy-buddy with Naruto at first either. And that rate was higher then that for the most part, and the discrimination they faced played a large part in that.
4) ...I'm not sure how it would explode the hosts head.
 
1) No evidence, and I question how that happened.
2) If that's happening, then the sealing is faulty.
3) More plausible, but such a thing would be happening with normal seals, and I trust Kakara more then I trust normal guards.
4) Any Seal would almost certainly come with a "mute" button.
5) Again, if the Seal is that faulty, then normal sealing was going to be a problem.
1) No evidence for or against, depends on details of how souls/spirits/minds work, details Kakara doesn't know and WE don't know as a collective body.
2) It is not an implausible flaw. A seal that allows the dragon mental influence or control of the muscles/nerves/etc of its container would work just fine if the container has no nerves/muscles/etc to control. There's no point vying for mental control of a rice cooker; it's an inert object. There are considerable advantages to gaining mental control of a super-saiyan.
3) Kakara is more trustworthy but also in many ways more vulnerable to a malicious agent that lives inside her body. Imagine how FUCKED Jaron would be, trying to do the stuff we do with all our conspiracies, if Jaffur were a hostile passenger who shared his senses and could occasionally, with great exertion, whisper a malicious inconvenient fact to the wrong person.
4) How could you possibly know that the mute button would exist or work reliably despite the dragon's interference?
5) No, because if we sealed the dragon normally and did not poke the seals, there would be no danger of us opening a hole in the seal on purpose and accidentally letting the dragon out. If we seal the dragon inside Kakara, and the plan most of the "seal inside Kakara" advocates have in mind unfolds, that becomes a risk. It normally wouldn't.


1) Actually, there kinda is: Namekian "Fusion"and Majin Buu's Absorption. Possibly Cells assimilation of 17 and 18 as well, consider he ended up puking 18 out.
2) It actually came from the RP, where there's a similar situation, and a Discord channel which has both me and Fourth, where I wondered if, with its telepathy, Dazarel could transfer it's mind/soul into a new body.
3) Kurama wasn't buddy-buddy with Naruto at first either. And that rate was higher then that for the most part, and the discrimination they faced played a large part in that.
4) ...I'm not sure how it would explode the hosts head.
1) We are neither a Namekian, nor a Majin, nor an android.
2) Either your information does not reliably translate into you having sure-and-certain OOC knowledge about how this works, or it does. If it doesn't, you're still gambling and really, really should be able to see why others think this is dangerous. If it does, then you're grossly abusing your access to OOC information not available to the majority of the questgoers.
3) Dazarel is not Kurama, Kakara is not Naruto, the situations are not the same and I do not want to bet the farm on everything being the same- I assume, of course, that the whole Naruto thing ended swimmingly, since I don't actually know anything about that setting.
4) Neither are we, but if the sealing attempt somehow fails disastrously, say, due to the fact that none of the sorcerors have ever seen a dragon or a psychic in their lives, let alone something that's both at once... I'd much rather that the attempt fail by blowing up an inanimate hunk of stone than, say, Kakara's intestines. Or, worse yet, her skull.

In reality, freezing organic beings is a fancy and somewhat sadistic method of execution. Absent magic, the same is true here.
I wouldn't actually be surprised if, say, Namekians or Arcosians could survive being frozen solid. Humans and near-humans like saiyans? Probably not. Dragons? Who knows?

That said, yeah, if you're not willing to kill a dragon, freezing it solid is a no-no.

[This is irrespective of whether there may be workable methods of cryogenic suspension for humans; I wouldn't be surprised if there ARE, but the technology clearly isn't as simple as 'stick them on ice.']
 
[X][ACTION] Try one last time to talk him down before fighting.
[X][RESOLUTION] Interrogate him.
-[X][RESOLUTION] Consult the sorcerers for their opinions on magic solutions (next update has a vote on the various options the sorcerers present).
--[X][RESOLUTION] Try to secure his cooperation with your decision on what to do with him.
---[X][RESOLUTION] See if he is a wish-granting dragon and, if he is, coerce one from him. (x1.25, from, "Ambitious")
 
1) No evidence, and I question how that happened.
2) If that's happening, then the sealing is faulty.
3) More plausible, but such a thing would be happening with normal seals, and I trust Kakara more then I trust normal guards.
4) Any Seal would almost certainly come with a "mute" button.
5) Again, if the Seal is that faulty, then normal sealing was going to be a problem.

1) Actually, there kinda is: Namekian "Fusion"and Majin Buu's Absorption. Possibly Cells assimilation of 17 and 18 as well, consider he ended up puking 18 out.
2) It actually came from the RP, where there's a similar situation, and a Discord channel which has both me and Fourth, where I wondered if, with its telepathy, Dazarel could transfer it's mind/soul into a new body.
3) Kurama wasn't buddy-buddy with Naruto at first either. And that rate was higher then that for the most part, and the discrimination they faced played a large part in that.
4) ...I'm not sure how it would explode the hosts head.

There's no solid evidence either way. The reasonable response is caution, and to evaluate the consequences of something going wrong compared to the benefits of it not. Absent any idea of how likely something is to go wrong, you're left with considering the number of points of potential failure -- both total and partial.

Your stance on this issue seems to assume there will be no failure, and if there is any failure it can only be total failure. Many of us that are opposed feel that the partial failure states are unacceptable. The chance of any form of failure is guaranteed to be higher than a specific form, that's just simple math. Total failure is bad no matter how we seal the dragon, but most of the partial failure states will be much worse to have happen to Kakara than to a rice cooker
 
[X][ACTION] Try one last time to talk him down before fighting.
[X][RESOLUTION] Interrogate him.
-[X][RESOLUTION] Consult the sorcerers for their opinions on magic solutions (next update has a vote on the various options the sorcerers present).
 
[X][RESOLUTION] Tickles!



[X][ACTION] Fight him into submission before you do anything else.

[X][RESOLUTION] Consult the sorcerers for their opinions on magic solutions (next update has a vote on the various options the sorcerers present).
-[X][RESOLUTION] Interrogate him.
--[X][RESOLUTION] Try to secure his cooperation with your decision on what to do with him.

Kakara: *Beats the crap out of Dazzarel*
Everyone: (Cheers!)
Kakara: Ok, I have a dragonton of lizard and no place to put it. Any ideas?
Yammar: We could eat it.
Kakara: Denied. It is sentient and we don't know where it has been. I need a magical containment.
Dandeer: Typical. Asking for things you have no understanding of. Just kill it already!
Kakara: No. Mercy is mine to give.
Dandeer: It doesn't deserve mercy!
Kakara: Neither did Vegeta
Berra: Agreed
Everyone else: ... (Shocked silence)
Kakara: I meant the Ancestor. When he first came to Earth.
Berra: Yes, of course. I knew that.
Kakara: So. Suggestions?
Dazzarel: YOU APE! YOU WILL NEVER CONTAIN MY-
Sorcerer 1: We could seal it under the ice.
Sorcerer 2: How about some dragon balls?
Sorcerer 3: I always wanted a flying dog...
Berra: I have a rice cooker here.
Dandeer: Why do you have a rice cooker? Where do you have a rice cooker?
Berra: Capsule. Half of them were rice cookers for a reason...
Dazzarel: -MIGHT! I AM A GOD TO YOUR-
Kakara: Could we seal it inside a person?
Apra: Why would you seal it in a person?
Maya: M-maybe i-into a baby? So it can be raised right?
Dazzarel: -PUNY-- Hell no! I am not going to be sealed into a baby!
Yammar: I am starting to warm to idea.
Dazzarel: I am right here!
Apra: Who is going to raise him though? Raising a dragon is a big responsibility and we need someone to set a good example.
Dazzarel: LISTEN TO ME DAMN IT!
Dandeer: Well, I don't mean to brag, but if you want a good mother...
Kakara: No
Apra: No
Berra: No
Dazzarel: HELL NO!
Yammar: That seems pointlessly cruel. We are not savages.
Dandeer: Hey!
Kakara: Well, I listened to suggestions and I think I can make my choice now. But first... Dazzarel, you mentioned something about saiyans in space?
Dazzarel: I will never talk, ape.
Kakara: Ok, someone bring me a baby
Dazzaral: ClosetothecenterofthegalaxywheretheTechtechusedtolive....

...why are we only now thinking of capsules?
 
1) No evidence for or against, depends on details of how souls/spirits/minds work, details Kakara doesn't know and WE don't know as a collective body.
2) It is not an implausible flaw. A seal that allows the dragon mental influence or control of the muscles/nerves/etc of its container would work just fine if the container has no nerves/muscles/etc to control. There's no point vying for mental control of a rice cooker; it's an inert object. There are considerable advantages to gaining mental control of a super-saiyan.
3) Kakara is more trustworthy but also in many ways more vulnerable to a malicious agent that lives inside her body. Imagine how FUCKED Jaron would be, trying to do the stuff we do with all our conspiracies, if Jaffur were a hostile passenger who shared his senses and could occasionally, with great exertion, whisper a malicious inconvenient fact to the wrong person.
4) How could you possibly know that the mute button would exist or work reliably despite the dragon's interference?
5) No, because if we sealed the dragon normally and did not poke the seals, there would be no danger of us opening a hole in the seal on purpose and accidentally letting the dragon out. If we seal the dragon inside Kakara, and the plan most of the "seal inside Kakara" advocates have in mind unfolds, that becomes a risk. It normally wouldn't.
1) And if it's not possible/safe, it'll be brough up.
2) Again, power suppression. Mental Defences. The fact that we rarely sleep.
3) Now, this I feel is a legitimate concern. I think that has low odds of happening, because the dragon is psychic, not magic, but it is something to be aware about.
4) Because it would be built into the Seal!
5) We're going to have openings in the seal anyway, if we want to interrogate/study him. Which would be the main reason the other SSJ's keep him alive. And how do you propose us damaging the seals?
1) We are neither a Namekian, nor a Majin, nor an android.
2) Either your information does not reliably translate into you having sure-and-certain OOC knowledge about how this works, or it does. If it doesn't, you're still gambling and really, really should be able to see why others think this is dangerous. If it does, then you're grossly abusing your access to OOC information not available to the majority of the questgoers.
3) Dazarel is not Kurama, Kakara is not Naruto, the situations are not the same and I do not want to bet the farm on everything being the same- I assume, of course, that the whole Naruto thing ended swimmingly, since I don't actually know anything about that setting.
4) Neither are we, but if the sealing attempt somehow fails disastrously, say, due to the fact that none of the sorcerors have ever seen a dragon or a psychic in their lives, let alone something that's both at once... I'd much rather that the attempt fail by blowing up an inanimate hunk of stone than, say, Kakara's intestines. Or, worse yet, her skull.
1) No, but it's evidence. On the sealing thing, we've also seen the Elder Kai sealed into the sword.
2) Um, what? Why did you go "oh, so you have OoC info" when I supplied where the idea came from? I didn't even create the idea.
3) Kurama hated Naruto, Naruto hated Kurama, much grief, Naruto eventually befriended and redeemed Kurama.
4) *throws up hands* We're going to be getting their opinion the way this vote is going. If there's a problem with the idea, it'll come up then.
There's no solid evidence either way. The reasonable response is caution, and to evaluate the consequences of something going wrong compared to the benefits of it not. Absent any idea of how likely something is to go wrong, you're left with considering the number of points of potential failure -- both total and partial.

Your stance on this issue seems to assume there will be no failure, and if there is any failure it can only be total failure. Many of us that are opposed feel that the partial failure states are unacceptable. The chance of any form of failure is guaranteed to be higher than a specific form, that's just simple math. Total failure is bad no matter how we seal the dragon, but most of the partial failure states will be much worse to have happen to Kakara than to a rice cooker
More "any partial failure will likely result in total failure". So either it can be safely sealed, in which case Kakara is viable, or it's not, in which case it won't matter any which way.

Now, I balance this against the potential rewards, and determine whether they worth it.
 
Last edited:
[X][ACTION] Fight him into submission before you do anything else.
[X][RESOLUTION] Consult the sorcerers for their opinions on magic solutions (next update has a vote on the various options the sorcerers present).
-[X][RESOLUTION] Interrogate him.
--[X][RESOLUTION] See if he is a wish-granting dragon and, if he is, coerce one from him. (x1.25, from, "Ambitious")
---[X][RESOLUTION] Try to secure his cooperation with your decision on what to do with him.
 
Voting is open
Back
Top