Remove ads

Dragon Ball: After the End

Voting is open
Reader mode
Deathbybunnies said:
Reading the epic update again, I noticed something interesting:

Dazarel's attacks disappeared as soon as we started pulling ki in, and he looked around as if wondering where it had gone. I think he was using his PSI powers to manipulate not just the environment (TK, redirecting blasts) but the ki of the world around himself. Now that we've taken it all, I think he's actually a lot less powerful.

I also think we're extremely lucky we rolled well enough to go Super Spirit Saiyan, because I suspect if we'd just used the bomb he'd have had a roll to see if he could steal it from us.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh shit, point.

So not only has Kakara gotten stronger, he's gotten equivalently weaker. Also, possibly, we may have damaged his worldview somewhat. Well, probably not, but maybe.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
She doesn't have to screw with us very much here - all she has to do is take a look at our mind while she's doing the working, which is much more plausible than sabotaging us in the middle of a fight, and she'll know we have a conspiracy lined up against her.

Of course I can't believe the fact that we would be letting Master Mind Sorcerer Dandeer into our head is even relevant, since the plan also calls for us to put in our mind a psychic so powerful he could stand up to 4 Golden Oozarus and have a very strong chance of winning almost entirely on the back of that psychic power. The same psychic power which let him read the minds of a bunch of people from space.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You do realize that part of the Sealing would involve turning off his psychic powers, right?
Simon_Jester said:
Assuming you're not shamelessly exploiting an ability to read the dragon's character sheet (in which case [expletive deleted])...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
He almost certainly is, on account of having made the dragon's character sheet.
Lailoken said:
Forget magic. Just exploit Saiyan racial talent and ironic justice by eating him.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We would actually gain power from doing so.
Deathbybunnies said:
No, but some fairly active quest participants were suggesting it and it's such a bad idea for so many reasons it seemed important to stamp out before it could gain any real traction. Especially as it's being touted as power-up somehow.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's far less of a bad idea then you seem think.
Simon_Jester said:
...Huh. Do the large unweighed risks play any role in Kakara's internal thought processes, or are they not in the picture?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's far less of a risk then people think, because no matter how it's restrained, sealing it's psychic powers will be involved no matter what. If we can't seal them, they we can't actually keep it contained whatsoever.

Secondly, we can enact our own mental defences by learning Mind Delve, which as has been demonstrated, Kakara is actually immensely talented at.

Kakara is psychic as well, and a powerful one at that. Having the dragon sealed in her will likely enhance those powers, meaning she's going to be better at countering them.
Simon_Jester said:
We don't know enough about psionics, magic, or the dynamics of souls and spirits to be confident that the dragon can be safely sealed inside Kakara's mind. It is, to put it mildly, risky.


Does Ambitious's vote weighting apply to plans that increase Kakara's power if successful, but are also highly risky?

Also, is there any chance that we can get a number for that 'mild vote weighting?' With most curated options we get explicit multipliers, but this is a write-in.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Sealed inside Kakara's body, not mind. Very important difference.

Also, idea: we could use the Sight to get a sneak-peak into the future, see how Sealing it inside ourselves works out. If it's bad, we don't do it. If it's good, we do it. Would people be willing to agree to that?
 
Last edited:
PoptartProdigy said:
And the shout comes.

Ante up, Prince, comes her voice, projected blind through the Seal. No, not through the Seal. Just quiet. So quiet Jaron couldn't possibly hear it, but you could. To how many people is she talking right now, while she thought of that? How many pitches is she presenting in these seconds, trying to convince an entire world to send her ki with no Hercule at her back? And she thought of that ploy, in a second?

It's artistry. It's genius. For the first time in your life, you feel truly humbled.

"Beautiful," you whisper. You flare your unpracticed gifts and weave a web, inspired for just an instant into glorious, sublime simplicity. You are so captivated by what you see and feel that you don't even take pride in what you know to be a flawless working.

And, through the temporary hole in your prison, your ki flows out and along Jaron's arms, unnoticed by the world in the glorious symphony playing outside.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Also, I know this thread is low-shipping, but I think Kakara just tripped something like 15 flags on the Jaffur route.

At the very least he's going to have some deepseated respect for her after this.
Lailoken said:
You know what would really mess with his head?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm already voting for tickles, unless you mean something else?
 
PoptartProdigy said:
At the least, he will be far easier to talk to, the next time you meet.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Good thing too since we shared his style with Mato.

...Wait.

Could we seal the dragon in the Collective Ki of the planet's inhabitants? (e: As is concentrated presently in Kakara)

e: This gets the best of the "Teach the dragon All is One" without risking her mind by tangling with a TP-enhanced dragon.
 
Last edited:
The one problem with all this approval voting is that there's like six plans that are well-liked and some of us are voting for all of them. :p

Maybe we need an elimination round or something?

Darkfire said:
Well. Last update did show Kakara was stupid enough to essentially absorb an energy field larger than her head. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be fair, she had reason to believe it would work based on ancestral tales (since Android 13 was apparently an opponent who really existed and was beaten as in that movie).

Gore17 said:
He almost certainly is, on account of having made the dragon's character sheet.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well see, the problem is, THEN I have to think "Is Monado proposing a seemingly very risky course of action because he knows it's counterintuitively very safe thanks to his insider trading information? Is he proposing to avoid obvious and sensible courses of action given the information available to us thanks to his insider trading information? Or is he proposing plans even he thinks are kind of bold and risky, because he wants weird stuff and lulz to happen?"

In which case...

[Expletive deleted.]

It's far less of a risk then people think, because no matter how it's restrained, sealing it's psychic powers will be involved no matter what. If we can't seal them, they we can't actually keep it contained whatsoever.

Secondly, we can enact our own mental defences by learning Mind Delve, which as has been demonstrated, Kakara is actually immensely talented at.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm very wary of the idea that we can just maintain a nice solid sealed-up block on the dragon, for the rest of our lives, consequence-free, and have the dragon NOT escape when Kakara dies.

I mean, we're basically turning Kakara's mental integrity and ki discipline into a load-bearing structural member for the continued existence of Garenhuld. Sounds like a heck of a gamble to me.

Sealed inside Kakara's body, not mind. Very important difference.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Without a lot of detailed information on mind/body/soul interactions that Kakara doesn't have, how the heck should I know there's a difference? If we're using Kakara's body as a containment, how do I know that doesn't give the dragon a chance to whisper stuff into our head or give us nightmares? How do I know that the dragon "can't" puppet our body when our soul/spirit/mind is off flying around on a vision quest?

Also, idea: we could use the Sight to get a sneak-peak into the future, see how Sealing it inside ourselves works out. If it's bad, we don't do it. If it's good, we do it. Would people be willing to agree to that?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'm not averse to that but would prefer to reserve it for AFTER we beat the snot out of the dragon.
 
I kind of doubt it would work, because how do you seal a dragon inside a 'bottle' that is composed of billions of disparate parts, all of which are going to go their separate ways once you release the Spirit Saiyan transformation?

I mean, I suppose you might be imagining us somehow 'dissolving' the dragon into Garenhuld's collective ki, the way that you might dissolve a salt crystal in water. But that's kind of different from 'sealing' the dragon, plus there's a risk of us somehow contaminating the world by doing such a thing, or other unforeseen effects.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I kind of doubt it would work, because how do you seal a dragon inside a 'bottle' that is composed of billions of disparate parts, all of which are going to go their separate ways once you release the Spirit Saiyan transformation?

I mean, I suppose you might be imagining us somehow 'dissolving' the dragon into Garenhuld's collective ki, the way that you might dissolve a salt crystal in water. But that's kind of different from 'sealing' the dragon, plus there's a risk of us somehow contaminating the world by doing such a thing, or other unforeseen effects.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
How many people are on Garenhuld? Woudn't it "dissolve out" to be less than 1 PL's-worth per person?

@PoptartProdigy Does Kakara have any reason to think this would or would not work?
 
Cariyaga said:
Good thing too since we shared his style with Mato.

...Wait.

Could we seal the dragon in the Collective Ki of the planet's inhabitants? (e: As is concentrated presently in Kakara)

e: This gets the best of the "Teach the dragon All is One" without risking her mind by tangling with a TP-enhanced dragon.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You? No. The sorcerers? Maybe. Ask them.
Simon_Jester said:
Maybe we need an elimination round or something?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That'll be one possible method, aye. I am demonstratively fond of them. ;)
 
[X] Defeat him quickly and utterly, locking down his power. Make him unable to continue fighting.
-[X] See if the Sorcerers can Seal him in the Collective Ki of the planet, or in yourself.
 
Gore17 said:
Kakara is psychic as well, and a powerful one at that. Having the dragon sealed in her will likely enhance those powers, meaning she's going to be better at countering them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Oh geeze, I wish you hadn't posted that - I felt obliged to open it because we're the ones arguing but that's a huge spoiler. I guess that's a point in its favour and I can see why you felt the need to share it, but I don't think it outweighs the drawbacks, and I don't feel comfortable using the information as a basis to vote on anyway because there's no possible way Kakara has the slightest inkling of that.

EDIT: Although it might not be all in its' favour - if we ever display such abilities in the future, their perception will be forever tainted by people wondering if that's Kakara or the dragon.

On a lighter note, we are now easily the most famous person on Garenhuld, which will have interesting effects. One of those is that we just told every Garenhulder that we just used this ancient tradition to literally defeat the Unknown... and we happen to be making a podcast on how you too can use this stuff! It's going to be the most popular show of all time.

EDIT: Edited the spoiler with an important point, but it's a really big spoiler and I recommend not opening it if you haven't already.
 
Last edited:
Deathbybunnies said:
On a lighter note, we are now easily the most famous person on Garenhuld, which will have intersting effects. One of those is that we just told every Garenhulder that we just used this ancient tradition to literally defeat the Unknown... and we happen to be making a podcast on how you too can use this stuff! It's going to be the most popular show of all time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Time to build our army of humans to defeat the Enemy with, right? :D
 
Deathbybunnies said:
Oh geeze, I wish you hadn't posted that - I felt obliged to open it because we're the ones arguing but that's a huge spoiler. I guess that's a point in its favour and I can see why you felt the need to share it, but I don't think it outweighs the drawbacks, and I don't feel comfortable using the information as a basis to vote on anyway because there's no possible way Kakara has the slightest inkling of that.

On a lighter note, we are now easily the most famous person on Garenhuld, which will have intersting effects. One of those is that we just told every Garenhulder that we just used this ancient tradition to literally defeat the Unknown... and we happen to be making a podcast on how you too can use this stuff! It's going to be the most popular show of all time.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I believe gore has misinterpreted stuff. Seers are a type of psychic from what I recall of RP discussion, and Kakara is a reasonably powerful Seer. An alternate version of her winds up becoming a goddess with Seer related divine powers, but that I recall she has never been indicated to be 'conventionally' psychic.
 
Last edited:
Simon_Jester said:
I kind of doubt it would work, because how do you seal a dragon inside a 'bottle' that is composed of billions of disparate parts, all of which are going to go their separate ways once you release the Spirit Saiyan transformation?

I mean, I suppose you might be imagining us somehow 'dissolving' the dragon into Garenhuld's collective ki, the way that you might dissolve a salt crystal in water. But that's kind of different from 'sealing' the dragon, plus there's a risk of us somehow contaminating the world by doing such a thing, or other unforeseen effects.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, the Garenhulders might end up with some sort of collective neurotic complex...
 
Regarding the spoiler running around the thread: that Kakara is psychic. Yes, that is true. However, it is only true in the sense that she is a seer. Psychic abilities manifest in many different ways. The Sight is a manifestation of one particular brand of psychic abilities. I urge you all not to stake your hopes on Kakara having godlike psychic power surging just underneath the surface. I won't say that she has no more abilities, but I absolutely will refuse to clarify that she does, either.
 
Terrabrand said:
I believe gore has misinterpreted stuff. Seers are a type of psychic from what I recall of RP discussion, and Kakara is a reasonably powerful Seer. An alternate version of her winds up becoming a goddess with Seer related divine powers, but that I recall she has never been indicated to be 'conventionally' psychic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

PoptartProdigy said:
Regarding the spoiler running around the thread: that Kakara is psychic. Yes, that is true. However, it is only true in the sense that she is a seer. Psychic abilities manifest in many different ways. The Sight is a manifestation of one particular brand of psychic abilities. I urge you all not to stake your hopes on Kakara having godlike psychic power surging just underneath the surface. I won't say that she has no more abilities, but I absolutely will refuse to clarify that she does, either.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well that makes me feel better, and renders the point moot anyway.
 
By gathering the ki to create the spirit bomb to defeat the dragon we unleashed some far more terrible monster, didn't we?

That monster is Maya, isn't it?
 
Last edited:
Deathbybunnies said:
Oh geeze, I wish you hadn't posted that - I felt obliged to open it because we're the ones arguing but that's a huge spoiler. I guess that's a point in its favour and I can see why you felt the need to share it, but I don't think it outweighs the drawbacks, and I don't feel comfortable using the information as a basis to vote on anyway because there's no possible way Kakara has the slightest inkling of that.

EDIT: Although it might not be all in its' favour - if we ever display such abilities in the future, their perception will be forever tainted by people wondering if that's Kakara or the dragon.

On a lighter note, we are now easily the most famous person on Garenhuld, which will have intersting effects. One of those is that we just told every Garenhulder that we just used this ancient tradition to literally defeat the Unknown... and we happen to be making a podcast on how you too can use this stuff! It's going to be the most popular show of all time.

EDIT: Edited the spoiler with an important point, but it's a really big spoiler and I recommend not opening it if you haven't already.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Terrabrand said:
I believe gore has misinterpreted stuff. Seers are a type of psychic from what I recall of RP discussion, and Kakara is a reasonably powerful Seer. An alternate version of her winds up becoming a goddess with Seer related divine powers, but that I recall she has never been indicated to be 'conventionally' psychic.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No misinterpretation. Seers are a specialized sub-division of psychics, focused more on the spiritual/internal side of things at the cost of outward expressions of power. This is almost certainly why Mind Delve and mental defences are so easy for her.

This is also almost certainly why Dazarel peaked into our mind: we were giving off a psychic signature, without having learned to defend ourselves.
In case you're wondering, I prefer never say something is absolutely true. :p
 
Ridiculously Average Guy said:
Yeah, I imagine he will.

Jaffur: Go train more to fight the dragon
Kakara: *recreates the spirit bomb*
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean, we legit did what he said, and it worked really well. :D

Cariyaga said:
How many people are on Garenhuld? Woudn't it "dissolve out" to be less than 1 PL's-worth per person?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Honestly, I have no idea. We're not just talking about dissolving the dragon's ki, we're talking about dissolving the dragon, a creature that has a frankly weird magical nature.

I mean, having a dragon dissolved in your ki might turn out to be bad in the same sense that having lead dissolved in your drinking water is.

Lailoken said:
By gathering the ki to create the spirit bomb to defeat the dragon we unleashed some far more terrible monster, didn't we?

That monster is Maya, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If our worst problem is a Mayamonster our worst problem is not very big. I'm starting to worry about you, buddy. In fact, y'know...

[twitches]

Lailoken said:
Yeah, the Garenhulders might end up with some sort of collective neurotic complex...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
LAILOKEN YOU ARE NOT BEING NEARLY PARANOID ENOUGH!

[takes deep breath]

Trust me, from bitter personal experience... if a person is frustrating and bad with one neurotic complex, they will be an order of magnitude more frustrating and bad with two. Neurotic complexes don't just coexist peacefully, they heterodyne. They build off each other. It's like dealing with someone who has two devils on their shoulders, egging each other on.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Voting is open
Remove ads
Back
Top