- Location
- USA
They apparently had a -4 modifier on their roll so they didn't get anything. The modifier goes away next election.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
They apparently had a -4 modifier on their roll so they didn't get anything. The modifier goes away next election.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Nitpick: the Johannesburg macrospinner is now no larger and no more significant than the Reykjavik macrospinner. Damage to either would be quite a bad thing, but we have double the total production capacity that we did when we started worrying about how exposed Johannesburg Phase 3 was to attack.
You're not wrong to worry, but let's put things in perspective here.
With that said, yes. That's why I propose a really aggressive (Free dice fueled) push on Nuuk this turn. We need it badly.
Firstly, please no, because that would be a significant sacrifice- we'd be greatly increasing the risk of needing to spend significant dice finishing off the project in 2060Q3, which we were hoping to avoid.
Second, we don't need the Energy we'd get from the tiberium power plants. We just... don't. For as long as we can keep throwing some Free dice into Heavy Industry and rolling out about two dice per turn on fusion power, we can keep ahead without needing to do that. There's no urgency to finishing the tiberium power plants, so there's no cause to justify diverting effort from the Karachi Sprint.
Third, we likewise have no urgent need to do Visceroids research that justifies the diversion of effort. Even if we wanted to, I'd advocate doing one die at a time, because believe it or not we COULD finish a 120-Progress project in Tiberium with one die. We have a better than one-in-three chance of doing so, even! Which would mean a one-in-three chance that a second die in the same turn would be wasted. I might be willing to do it if there was some urgent reason we needed to know the secrets of Visceroids right away, but right now, I'm not seeing it.
- Location
- USA
That's fair.
- Location
- MSC
Does Progress from Military space stations counts (ASAT and OSRCT)?
I believe so.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Mmmm... I mostly like this plan, but why not throw a die onto Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting? It still leaves us with a 78% chance of finishing up Karachi Stage 4, it's basically free resources, and if I understand correctly, we're not actually going to finish stage 4 until Q2, since we can't build up that fast.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It seems to, but it doesn't matter, because just finishing Enterprise (which we already promised to do anyway) will fulfill the requirement.
Hm. I'm not saying I won't consider it.
To be fair, their first prototype geth may have been basically this, only with less imminent planetary doom drama.
They did capitalism and demanded more capitalism. Much more capitalism than the majority of thread voters really approve of.
I'd like it too, but I want to get a better grip on our fundamentals and plan commitments first.
Definitely a good 'optional' project to do in late 2061 when we're riding high on a wave of Resources and have most of our Plan commitments in the bag.
The trick is, most of that other stuff is mutually overlapping. Better lasers means we need plasma guns less. Wingman drones mean we need airborne lasers less (not none, less). And so on.
But no other project is in any way overlapping with Skywatch. Skywatch is all-or-nothing; either we have the capacity to monitor threats from deep space, or we don't. Right now, we don't, but (so far as we know) it doesn't matter because nothing's out there messing with us. However, that could change at any time without warning... and without Skywatch, we won't even know it's happening until it literally falls on our heads from out of the sky.
We actually are caught up with where we "need" to be, we're just not caught up with the rolling and continuously moving target of where we "want" to be.
Like, the way to properly measure this stuff is to ask: "How many Military commitments did we make at the beginning of the Plan, and what percent of our progress towards those commitments is fulfilled?" We're doing fairly well there except for the space stuff, which got backloaded for budget reasons but can be done now and isn't even that hard to fulfill.
About the only area where I really think we're behind, as opposed to just "failing to dominate as hard as we'd like," is in the escort carrier project, which I have hopes we can fit in around the edges.
That wasn't the point. The point is that next Plan, in 2062, we'll be rather harder up for Resources than we are right now. Our income is likely to drop to something in the neighborhood of 600-700 RpT (rough casual estimate on my part). Then we'll be looking for all the 5 R/die and 10 R/die projects we can lay our hands on. Stuff like Ferro-Aluminum Armor that we'd never consider doing right now, suddenly becomes desirable because fuck, it's something to do, and it doesn't bust the budget to do it.
Wouldn't the exact nature of the plan we would need depend on the nature of the messup?
Like, Nod warlord fuckups could range from "Giddyboy snorts tiberium-laced cocaine and dies" to "Krukov fights a nuclear civil war with his own underlings" to "Indian Nod warlord successfully creates Cyborg Zombie Godzilla, then somehow downloads Erewhon into its brain and it goes on a rampage across the subcontinent."
You need different plans for each of those situations.
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joe6168
Just a humble lurker
- Location
- Michigan, The lower left glove
I think I saw Ithillid mention on discord that it would be an extra 5rpt ontop of the 25 we already get for completing stage 2.
I really like your plan but I have one big and one small problem with the military portion. I think that modern Lasers should be one of our priorities in Military because it has the Potential to change everything, from Point-Defense to Infantry Weapons. If we are lucky we could potentially roll out Infantry Lasers in Q3, which would still be relevant in TW4. I also think that we should develope the Stealth Disruptors because they were the result of a nat 100.
Durabys
Miaow! Break the Chains!
- Location
- the land of the Boii
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I will now tell you this in the form as if a center-right progressive was telling you this:
They wanted Pre-"Tiberium Arrival" Neoliberal capitalism to come back. The one we in OTL would call the Pre-2008 Crisis Neoliberal capitalism. AKA: The one that caused so much of a shitshow that nearly all the Third World and most of the Second World jumped ship to Nod before the First Tiberium War even got going. The one which in OTL overfinancialized the economy to the point that it hollowed out the middle class in the West, sold out the manufacturing to authoritarian and child-slavery hellholes and generally liked having Neo-Colonial mining states in the Third World.
(anyway, I am anti-capitalist, so I believe the entire system and every variant of it is fucking rotten to the core, not just Neoliberalism)
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Which of the projects that I currently have on the menu do you want to sacrifice for that purpose, bearing in mind both the Resource and Dice requirements?
I think the entire reason the refit cost Capital Goods is because we were systematically retooling our production lines to make the new Orca variant. Read the Results text for 2059Q3 and you'll see examples of this.
So I'm pretty sure the deployment is the part where we make more factories. When we develop something, the deployment usually takes one of two forms:
1) We develop the thing, then build several large factories in specific locations (e.g. develop Aurora/ZEMEV/Havoc, built two Aurora/ZEMEV/Havoc factories)
2) We develop the thing, then have a large project (typically 200+ Progress) to roll out the thing worldwide (e.g. naval point defense refits, tank laser point defense refits, railgun refits from the First Plan).
In the latter case, there's only one project and that's it, it's just a really big project. This usually reflects, "under the hood," the need to modify or build dozens and dozens of little installations all over the world, any one of which is beneath the notice of the global Treasury Secretary.
Go figure. With Karachi going on, if any of the warlords were seriously considering further delay, they just had a good reason to un-consider it.
We literally just built a wave of literal fortresses around our borders this very turn.
"Fortress" was right there in the name of the action.
As for Karachi, the dogpile doesn't necessarily stop us from Karachi-ing. It might, but it might not. Depends on how much pressure we're under to do Infrastructure and Tiberium projects as a result of the attacks, and whether Ground Forces feels ready to roll out against the Noddies in Pakistan.
Alternate hypothesis: The QM is telling us because it's going to go hot before we get to vote on the 2060Q1 turn plans, so it's too late for us to do anything about it anyway.
To be fair, the military MIGHT change their tune about being free to attack Karachi in particular if they're up to their asses in cyborg laser alligators everywhere else.
One thing: if we plan to put a lot of work on OSRCT, we will want to push out Enterprise Phase 4, for additional orbital manufacturing capacity. Because we know that much of the hardware is coming from Enterprise, and expanding the amount we can drop, requires more hardware.
Not worth it until Enterprise is upgraded. I think an upgrade will also entail a Shimmer Shield and laser PD, which will be vital.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Why not? The two phases of Rare Metals provide +RpT income even when Enterprise hasn't been upgraded. This indicates that we have the industrial capacity to process those materials already, and don't need to upgrade Enterprise just to have the means to process them.
When both the mines (on the moon) and the refineries (on Enterprise) are Plan commitments anyway, it's arguably wasteful to spend ten or so dice building extra refineries when you aren't using the ones you have at full capacity.
This is a stronger point.
Then again, right now Enterprise isn't as much of a critical node for our economy as many other locations back on Earth. It's not immune to attack as-is, but it's resistant to attack, arguably more so than other, more vital locations like North Boston, Chicago, and Medina/Jeddah.
Yeah, but it's pretty clear that Enterprise Phase 4 isn't a prerequisite for OSRCT Phase 2 or anything, so I don't feel bad about funding OSRCT and not Enterprise this turn.
Besides, having a wider variety of materials available from moon mines this turn will also help the existing (admittedly limited) facilities on Enterprise to make things for the OSRCT troopers. But remember that OSRCT was first conceived as a project at a time when Enterprise did not exist, so the concept is probably viable when we have Enterprise, even if we don't have maximally upgraded Enterprise.
We actually have a project for "build giant freezers" over in Agriculture, y'know.
They stole the "can only run for like four hours before overheating and needing twenty hours of refurbishment" version of our fusion plants.
If that's part of Project Varyag, then Project Varyag has very limited combat endurance.
The more rapidly something can be deployed, the more likely it is to have an impact quickly.
In general, a "pure research" project like "advanced lasers" is going to be hard to deploy quickly. There's probably an entire second wave of "actually develop a weapon system based on the principles you found in the first development project" before we get deployments there. On the other hand, the advances from such a project may be very impactful.
By contrast, something like "wingman drones" can probably be manufactured quite quickly once we know how to make them work at all. And the impact will be immediate, because we'll be able to quickly bolster our fighting forces by manufacturing extra self-flying aircraft that (loosely speaking) allow each of our pilots to fight with the strength of two. Since we'll be taking pilot casualties during the war, this will be especially welcome, as we'll be in effect manufacturing reinforcements for depleted units, instead of having to train them, which is always a slow part of the process.
Hallucinogen defense and railgun munitions are other obvious candidates for a quick deployment, because they are straightforward technical concepts.
EDIT: Since I have been accused of passing incorrect information as well:
EDIT: As Rakuhn pointed out, this is my analysis/opinion based on GM's short description and additional statements. I apologize if anyone thought that it was direct GM's quote (I thought it was obvious that this is not Ithilid's writing style but in retrospect that should have been clarified at the beginning). Edited to correct mistakes and hopefully clarify my points.
1) Karachi focus.
-India is a major war materiel supplier beyond biotech. An "Arsenal of Theocracy" so to say.
-It does mean that there will be lesser (but not greatly so) effort on other fronts.
-India is, well, an "Arsenal of Theocracy" - a major population and industrial node. Even without time to prepare, we will likely see high-end NOD stuff such as Barghest-bis in numbers, Black Hands, vehicle-equivalent Ganas, etc.
-This will put a significant stress on everything not named "Ground Forces" since "Decent" is actually a shorthand for "decent if we stay on defense".
2) Spoiling offensive.
-Will blunt initial attack most.
-We can seize a lot of territory and decent manpower flow with moderate effort.
-Some stress on Air Force and Navy.
3) Turtle.
-Standard GDI playbook, it works.
-However, our Green zones are somewhat thin so stuff not intended to may end up crumped anyway.
Regarding actual offensive. So, hm, I did misread significant point. Sorry.
India is very much not "just Ganas". It is, explicitly, a major, likely biggest NOD industrial and population hub.
Misremembered this part - it was general military offense that'll trigger refugee flood. Still, shows how much population (and therefore, industry) India have, since relatively small (geographically speaking) impact of planned city will do more to drain NOD manpower than a major defeats on several fronts.
EDIT: As Rakuhn pointed out, this is my analysis/opinion based on GM's short description and additional statements. I apologize if anyone thought that it was direct GM's quote (I thought it was obvious that this is not Ithilid's writing style but in retrospect that should have been clarified at the beginning). Edited to correct mistakes and hopefully clarify my points.
1) Karachi focus.
-India is a major war materiel supplier beyond biotech. An "Arsenal of Theocracy" so to say.
-It does mean that there will be lesser (but not greatly so) effort on other fronts.
-India is, well, an "Arsenal of Theocracy" - a major population and industrial node. Even without time to prepare, we will likely see high-end NOD stuff such as Barghest-bis in numbers, Black Hands, vehicle-equivalent Ganas, etc.
-This will put a significant stress on everything not named "Ground Forces" since "Decent" is actually a shorthand for "decent if we stay on defense".
2) Spoiling offensive.
-Will blunt initial attack most.
-We can seize a lot of territory and decent manpower flow with moderate effort.
-Some stress on Air Force and Navy.
3) Turtle.
-Standard GDI playbook, it works.
-However, our Green zones are somewhat thin so stuff not intended to may end up crumped anyway.
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Can we please not start a fight on economy ideology yet again please....
Well that's one hell of a slanted summary. That's definitely not Word of God and I think you're taking some serious liberties with the specifics, especially when we don't even have the actual results post/military briefing yet so you're exactly as in the dark as all the rest of us. Trying to pitch Karachi as "spoiling attacks but better" is not true at all, and we have no idea what the long term effects of any of the above would be.
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- Location
- ?????????
Okay so this is some what of a misrepresentation.
We don't know what the proposals are for the military outside of the names. One is karachi, one is turtle and one is a spoiling offensive. We don't know much else than that.
What we do know is very little other than the fact that a NOD warlord fucked up and spilled the dog pile a little early
Not that project the military one, Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 1), though if the nat 100 means we start on the offensive I'm no longer as concerned.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It bears remembering that the terrain around BZ-18 is not exactly favorable for an offensive.
Attacking it from India requires pushing north across a LOT of mountains and deserts, terrain that was very forbidding even before tiberium. Now it's a Yellow Zone, which doesn't make things better.
Attacking it from Russia/China isn't much better because most of Russia is in the Red Zones on either flank. Only a relatively narrow and circuitous corridor of Yellow Zone terrain permits access from Krukov's perspective, and that involves running all his operations through northern Siberia.
Since not even Nod can operate freely within, or cheaply run supply lines through, the Red Zones, BZ-18 is inherently going to be hard for Nod to crack open. They can attack it, to be sure, but they won't be able to bring unlimited pressure to bear on it, even if cracking that specific Blue Zone is the only thing they even try to accomplish in the entire war.
Yes, but Auroras are long-ranged. Just about any place we can hit with Auroras from BZ-18, we can hit from some other Blue Zone just as well.
Indian Nod warlord? In range of BZ-4 (southern Arabia). Chinese Nod warlord? Within much closer range of the Japanese Blue Zone. Krukov? Most of his good stuff is in range of the European or Kamchatka Blue Zones; the actual Auroras that hit his factories last turn were, as far as I can determine, based out of Greenland and flew over the North Pole to deliver their cargo of
Okay, now that you're defining your terms, I understand. On the other hand, SADN isn't a perfect defense against masterstrokes, and we have the ability to recover from masterstrokes even without it. We should work on it soon, but for next turn in particular I think I'd rather prioritize overall military readiness and stuff I can plausibly hope to deploy in Q2 and Q3 in time to meaningfully impact the immediate war effort, rather than trying to fortify the entire world that little bit more.
But that's me.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We should obsiously do all the Space Force projects. OSRCT 4, Orbital Nuclear Caches, Skywatch. They gate all the further fun stuff that would greatly affect our global reaction potential. Think about it!!! Orbital drop Mammoth tanks, orbital drop havocs, wolverines and titans, orbital drop air superiority fighters that return to space once the operation is over and so many other fun stuff.
Re: the SADN, I'm not super sold on investing a bunch of money into crystal beam laser defenses like 1-2 turns before we make crystal beam lasers obsolete for military uses. Same on the orbital defense satellites, we're probably going to be clearing the modern lasers research in the near future so spending a bunch of dice and money on a crystal beam constellation that's going to need immediate replacement isn't the best way to use our Mil dice imo.