We're in a far stronger negotiating position than Canon GDI was, that's for damn sure
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Middle Europe
So, I went through the thread using search function and gathered various Kane quotes from updates. Should be roughly in order.
He seriously took the time to zing himself while talking about coffee. Beautiful.
Also, you just know there's some people in that AMA thread that are highly conflicted because it turns out he is the QM of an amazing Quest on the forum, and now the thread members have to decide if they stick with the Quest because it's great, or ditch it because Kane is running it.
Also, you just know there's some people in that AMA thread that are highly conflicted because it turns out he is the QM of an amazing Quest on the forum, and now the thread members have to decide if they stick with the Quest because it's great, or ditch it because Kane is running it.
Ironically he's the QM of the In-Universe GDIQuest where the questers try to lead GDI from TW1 to the present dayHe seriously took the time to zing himself while talking about coffee. Beautiful.
Also, you just know there's some people in that AMA thread that are highly conflicted because it turns out he is the QM of an amazing Quest on the forum, and now the thread members have to decide if they stick with the Quest because it's great, or ditch it because Kane is running it.
and now they know how he knew so much about TW1 Policies and decisions
- Location
- Taken by the hand to a land that they understand
... Kane would congratulate GDI for rebuilding the Philadelphia like he hadn't blown it up.
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Sometimes one must temporarily sacrifice a piece of beauty for the greater good.... Kane would congratulate GDI for rebuilding the Philadelphia like he hadn't blown it up.
And by 'greater good' he means Kane fucking up yet again and Humanity surviving in spite of his actions rather than because of him
- Location
- NorthEast
*furious eye twitching*
Fuucking
KANE
Fuucking
KANE
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Yes, good. Let the rage flow through you. Feel the hate, let it make you stronger!
Watch out they might do something to you that can't be undone, like send you some pics of cursed food that you will have to remember forevermore.
- Location
- USA
Depending on how negotiations go, Kane could be a massive resource for us. He probably know a ton about space, space travel, science, and other esoteric things.
We should probably have him and his followers completely isolated from the rest of the population. So no one does something to them to renew hostilities and to protect us from him influencing us too much. Maybe their own planetary settlement.
We could collaborate on science and tech advancements. And eventually, generations from now, the (justified) rage and hate will die down enough to start merging back into a more united people focused on dealing with the rest of the universe instead of each other.
More likely we build him a super ship or whatever and he flies off, but I'm thinking best case scenario.
We should probably have him and his followers completely isolated from the rest of the population. So no one does something to them to renew hostilities and to protect us from him influencing us too much. Maybe their own planetary settlement.
We could collaborate on science and tech advancements. And eventually, generations from now, the (justified) rage and hate will die down enough to start merging back into a more united people focused on dealing with the rest of the universe instead of each other.
More likely we build him a super ship or whatever and he flies off, but I'm thinking best case scenario.
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To be fair, Kane did not blow up the Philadelphia - he had the Legendary Insurgent push the button.... Kane would congratulate GDI for rebuilding the Philadelphia like he hadn't blown it up.
Best scenario is Kane fucks off on his new spaceship having given us a good deal then decides to drink and drive and crashes into a black hole.
Most likely scenario is he fucks off and becomes someone else's problem and GDI is constantly paranoid he's gonna come back and start screwing things up again.
There is no scenario I believe to be remotely plausible in which he doesn't leave
- Location
- The Underdark
That is something I chalk up to game limitations and it being a tutorial mission. A big part of that mission is that you as the Brotherhood of Nod mostly get to set the pace, in a way that most other missions don't let you.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I personally imagine that the actual operation was done extremely quickly, perhaps totalling 3 minutes or so. The first move was to eliminate the communications, then the rest was done as a blitz. The missiles were probably launched during a moment of vulnerability, not a continued blackout.
True but it is still hilarious that if my memory is correct there was no lamp shading in the game, that a highly secretive mission that was the critical point to get gdi pissed to do Kaens plan used suicide bombers mainly to blow up walls.
Would think it would have been very funny to see Kane say that he expected the explosives and the nod personnel provided to the mission deep into gdi territory, to not get conjoined together in transit because they wanted to show off how committed to cause because going on a suicide mission to hijack a military installation to blow up a space station wasn't already enough somehow in a disappointed dad voice.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
One of the greatest blows ever struck against Kane during his time on this Earth was by a medieval minstrel who sang a particulary sappy and repetitive ditty.
The man's had it stuck in his head for seven hundred years.
So, this is something I've accidentally been sitting on for... months? Yep, I apparently started on this in May. Pretty sure it was largely ready to post then as well. Oops.
I place the M8 AGS in service because of the interesting note of TW1 kicking off ~1997. The M8 gets cancelled late 1996-early 1997. So with Tiberium income windfalls and increasing issues with "militias" (Nod), the M8 actually entered production here.
A lot of the options referred to during the development have basis in historical designs or concepts. Tube-launched ATGMs were a thing with the M551 and M60A2, plus various Soviet tank designs and a number of Western designs in recent decades, IIRC. Turret mounted missiles are both a nod to Mammoth Mk I/III and the concept/early art for the Predator. The loader vs autoloader question and decision are largely passed on historical decisions - 120mm rounds are largely considered the largest round a human loader can feasibly handle loading repeatedly over the course of an engagement. One piece vs Two piece to an extent came up when I was trying to figure out how the blasted cannon was loaded, but a preference between the two varies between countries - I believe the UK and USSR/RU prefers two piece ammo, for instance. Driver in turret - MBT-70/KPz-70, and the US successor XM-803. It did not work well. Crew in hull and remote turret - I don't think I need to point out all of the examples of this in recent years.
Centerline vs offset cannons... I got nothing historically for offset. No one did that except in casemate designs or wedging two guns side by side, which would technically essentially still be centerline. Crew placement in the turret came down to crew survivability thoughts (keep them separated so a single front/rear pen can't take both) vs ease of CBRNT and armoring. I used the armoring scheme as a way to try to offset the few tons of cannon+mount sitting on the side screwing with the turret balance. Not sure that'd actually offset enough.... Turret balance is incredibly important for things like turret traverse speeds and traversing on inclines. The centerline cannon with autoloader on one side and crew on the other being cramped is a direct reference to the competitor to the design that would become the M10 Booker. If you want to see what I'm referring to, look up "Inside the Chieftain's Hatch: BAE XM1302 MPF" on youtube. The turret interior is in Part 2. It's kinda terrible.
Autoloaders... well, we get to touch on the main types of autoloaders in use while noting the issue with a cannon parked way the fuck over to the side of a turret. Carousel is essentially what the USSR tank designs went with, bustle is what a number of Western countries tend to use (see Leclerc). Revolver is something you can see with the AMX-13 and some other designs. The final design is, AFAIK, my own concept in an attempt to have something that works with the god forsaken cannon positioning since I don't think bustle or revolver would've been used on the Predator, and carousel doesn't line up properly with an offset cannon unless it got lifted up and then slid horizontally to the cannon, which would take up more space in the turret.
I place the M8 AGS in service because of the interesting note of TW1 kicking off ~1997. The M8 gets cancelled late 1996-early 1997. So with Tiberium income windfalls and increasing issues with "militias" (Nod), the M8 actually entered production here.
A lot of the options referred to during the development have basis in historical designs or concepts. Tube-launched ATGMs were a thing with the M551 and M60A2, plus various Soviet tank designs and a number of Western designs in recent decades, IIRC. Turret mounted missiles are both a nod to Mammoth Mk I/III and the concept/early art for the Predator. The loader vs autoloader question and decision are largely passed on historical decisions - 120mm rounds are largely considered the largest round a human loader can feasibly handle loading repeatedly over the course of an engagement. One piece vs Two piece to an extent came up when I was trying to figure out how the blasted cannon was loaded, but a preference between the two varies between countries - I believe the UK and USSR/RU prefers two piece ammo, for instance. Driver in turret - MBT-70/KPz-70, and the US successor XM-803. It did not work well. Crew in hull and remote turret - I don't think I need to point out all of the examples of this in recent years.
Centerline vs offset cannons... I got nothing historically for offset. No one did that except in casemate designs or wedging two guns side by side, which would technically essentially still be centerline. Crew placement in the turret came down to crew survivability thoughts (keep them separated so a single front/rear pen can't take both) vs ease of CBRNT and armoring. I used the armoring scheme as a way to try to offset the few tons of cannon+mount sitting on the side screwing with the turret balance. Not sure that'd actually offset enough.... Turret balance is incredibly important for things like turret traverse speeds and traversing on inclines. The centerline cannon with autoloader on one side and crew on the other being cramped is a direct reference to the competitor to the design that would become the M10 Booker. If you want to see what I'm referring to, look up "Inside the Chieftain's Hatch: BAE XM1302 MPF" on youtube. The turret interior is in Part 2. It's kinda terrible.
Autoloaders... well, we get to touch on the main types of autoloaders in use while noting the issue with a cannon parked way the fuck over to the side of a turret. Carousel is essentially what the USSR tank designs went with, bustle is what a number of Western countries tend to use (see Leclerc). Revolver is something you can see with the AMX-13 and some other designs. The final design is, AFAIK, my own concept in an attempt to have something that works with the god forsaken cannon positioning since I don't think bustle or revolver would've been used on the Predator, and carousel doesn't line up properly with an offset cannon unless it got lifted up and then slid horizontally to the cannon, which would take up more space in the turret.
GDIOnline
Blog category: Military History
Main Battle Tank: Predator
The primary armored unit of the GDI for over 20 years, the Predator is one of the iconic designs of the Third Tiberium War and Regency War. It harkens back to the conventional tanks of the 1990-2020s, while also taking cues from the Mammoth Mk III that preceded it into service.The concept of a Main Battle Tank can be traced in forms back to the 1950s with things such as the "Universal Tank" before the term "main battle tank" settled in. During the 2000s and 2010s, as GDI absorbed numerous armored vehicles from failing countries, they felt a need to better define the term, particularly given the "medium MBTs" and "light tanks" that were present around the world. For GDI, a "Main Battle Tank" is a tank intended to be the primary/main battle tank in service. When the 2020s rolled around and combat walkers started to become an actual thing, "Main Battle Tank" became more of a "Main Battle Vehicle" that encompassed both (wheeled/tracked/hover) tanks and walkers, with room to take other major alternate types that may appear later.
Light Battle Tanks, such as the M8 AGS that saw service in the First Tiberium War, also existed for a time, but were not intended to be a substantial part of the armored motor pool. These units were phased out over the course of the 2020s by IFVs and later the MRH-1 Hover MRLS. Ground Forces haven't seen a reason to revive the concept since then.
Origins
Like the Guardian and Pitbull, the Predator found its origins in the Civilian Area Patrol and Enforcement program of the early 2030s. The CAPE program was intended to provide cheaper conventional equipment to patrol secured areas and deal with rioters or any Nod militia that may have arisen in order to focus the more capable but higher maintenance gear on operations in and near Nod territory. The decision to officially designate areas Blue/Yellow/Red led to the program being redesignated as Patrol Enforcement of Blue Zones (PEBZ) Program in 2033.Phase 1 delivered the Guardian and Pitbull in 2033, with wider service occurring in 2034. Phase 2 had started in 2033 after the Phase 1 vehicles had entered testing, in order to provide new air transport units, but only had the A-15 Orca in LRIP testing at the time the Institute for Tiberium Research was destroyed in 2034. The remainder of Phase 2 (air troop transport and air vehicle transport) was paused while GDI was assessing the situation and dealing with Parliament. Following regular budget cuts starting in 2035 as "peace dividends," it was decided to push the A-15 into full service to phase out both the A-12 Orca Bomber and A-14 Orca Mk II ("Orca Fighter"). With the decision to push the Guardian and Pitbull into wider service, it was decided to continue Phase 2 in order to develop cheaper alternatives to the V-28 Orca Transport and V-30 Orca Carryall.
PEBZ Phase 3, which would deal with a cheaper Blue Zone alternative to the Titan walker, was effectively canceled as GDI had to redefine its capabilities and needs. This delay was in part due to the Titan Mk II entering service just a few years before, and also trying to determine if they had the budget to even look at a partial replacement. With the HBT-5A Mammoth Mk III entering service in 2042, the need to cut back on the Titan motor pool on cost grounds became a major point for Ground Forces. At this point PEBZ Phase 3 was revived as the Main Battle Vehicle 2045 program.
Main Battle Vehicle 2045
A core element of the MBV2045 was cost reduction both in production and maintenance compared to the Titan Mk II, while not sacrificing firepower and preferably speed or maneuverability. The Request for Proposals went out in 2042, with the intent of having the winner begin to be fielded in 2045. Despite efforts to essentially "shrink" the Titan and reduce costs, walker proposals were quickly eliminated from the competition, reducing the options to between wheeled or tracked vehicles. There was a proposal for a hover tank, based on the second generation skirtless air cushion hover systems, but the maintenance needs and costs for the hover system would kill the proposal.In the end, three main concepts carried forward. One concept was a smaller cannon (105mm or 120mm instead of the 152mm of a Titan), but with ATGMs carried, either as tube launched or with an external launcher. One proposal of this concept had the gun and ATGM pods in a turret mounted on a Guardian chassis. Another had a new tracked chassis paired with the turret and tube-launched ATGMs instead. The second main concept was a 152mm cannon on a fully tracked hull, with differences in the turret layout being the most obvious differences. The final concept was also a 152mm cannon on a tracked hull, but separating the two track sections into four sections instead, as was done with the Mammoth Tank Mk I and III.
After consideration, the smaller cannon proposals were eliminated, as adding a 105mm or 120mm cannon would introduce new logistical issues (though the introduction of the 105mm cannon on the Guardian turret would have alleviated the 105mm logistics issues somewhat). Proposals that included loaders instead of autoloaders were eliminated next, as the physical requirements of loading a 152mm shell manually was excessive, and two piece ammunition slowed the rate of fire more than Ground Forces wished, on top of added personnel requirements. The two piece ammunition would carry forward, as that allowed shorter spaces to hold the separate shell and charges.
Despite lobbying efforts, proposals that placed the driver in the turret soon followed on the chopping block, due to the fact that overcoming the issues inherent in such a layout would likely add too much cost to the design, if the issues were even able to be overcome. The alternative - placing the entire crew in the hull and having a remote turret - lasted a good while in 2043 before it was decided that Tiberium interference might become too much of an issue with controlling the turret, though the ease of CBRNT protection with all crew in the hull was noted.
The debate between centerline and offset cannons carried over into 2043 as well, with debates over splitting the gunner and commander to each side of the gun versus having both crew on the same side, and where the autoloader would be placed. Eventually, the decision was made to have the crew on the same side of the cannon, and the placement of armor protection did much to deal with turret balance issues for offset cannons. Proposals that had centerline cannons with the autoloader sitting on the other side of the cannon would end up being eliminated as cramping the turret too much and causing too much weight in the turret from wider armor protection.
The offset cannon did introduce its own issues when it came to the autoloader design. With a centerline cannon placement, a carousel arrangement under the turret always has rounds lined up for grabbing whereas that isn't easily possible with the cannon towards the edge of the turret ring. At the same time, having a bustle autoloader would solve the issue of lining up for reloads, but would extend the turret length to house the rounds. A "revolver" setup could hybridize between the two, at the cost of needing to break off fighting to reload the system in addition to the added width of the revolver "magazine." The solution would be devised in early 2044 as a vaguely carousel style system. The separate shell and charges would be stored in the floor vertically reminiscent of the "wet ammo rack" concept from World War 2. The autoloader would then pull them out, rotate into a horizontal position, slide in a curve back into line with the cannon, then raise up to load the shell followed by the charge.
In the end, two proposals carried forward to actual construction and competition. Very similar in most respects, the primary difference was in track layout. XMBT-6-1 was a fully tracked tank with only two sets of tracks, while XMBT-6-2 was a quad tracked layout. In the end, the easier ability to decontaminate the quad tracked design of Tiberium proved to be a critical capability, and XMBT-6-2 was selected to become the new MBT for Ground Forces.
Predator, rolling out!
The MBT-6A, designated Predator, was fielded barely on schedule in late 2045, and over the next two years would replace the Titan Mk II across Ground Forces with the exception of the Steel Talons. It would not be ignored by them however, as they would take a number of XMBT-6 LRIP production models and apply the advances in railgun technology innovated on the Mammoth Mk III in 2045 to them, resulting in the MBT-6B in 2046. This would result in some changes to the autoloader to compensate for the new ammo - the "rods" for the railgun are stacked horizontally in the carousel, and the curved shift ends under the gun, where the round is loaded into the gun from below. This frees space behind the gun for capacitors and other systems required for railgun firing. The MBT-6B would initially be a low production system, primarily upgraded to in the field by various commanders rather than new build construction.During the Third Tiberium War, the Predator saw service world-wide, from Blue Zones to Red Zones, from urban centers to deserts. It was a workhorse of armored units throughout the war. In 2052, it was involved in the Marked of Nod campaign that served to be the last major combat deployment of the MBT-6A. Earlier that year, refits commenced to upgrade the Predator to the -6B version, with the overhauls largely completed in 2053 or 2054.
Ablative armor was added starting in late 2055, and a Remote Weapon System came in 2057 as the MBT-6C standard. This would be the version that would fight the Regency War in 2060, once more operating across the world against Nod forces. It would be here that the age of the design would readily become apparent. The increased firepower of Nod armor units could only really be resisted with the use of ablative armor, but that was not a long term protective measure. The Remote Weapon System proved critical in allowing a not insignificant number of Predators to survive incoming missile fire than they otherwise would have. But all indications are that the design had reached its limits in upgradeability.
Successor
From what can be determined, a proposal for a Predator successor first showed up in mid to late 2057 as the MBT-7 Paladin. The Paladin was intended to be a complete redesign and modernization of the Predator to integrate modern technologies and cut wasted space and weight. The Paladin as an independent system vanished at some point in 2062, seemingly rolled into a general "Next Generation Armored Fighting Vehicles" program.Given the Treasury's continued promise to develop a more secure logistics route for BZ-18, as well as a Treasury promise to develop the NGAFV and NGASV programs, it seems at this point that the MBT-6's last major combat action would probably revolve around this promise and its replacement will likely be fielded before the end of the decade.
Posted on: 15 Mar 2064
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