- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
i do not have one of the top of my head but the new turn might chance this or not where you could shift thing or have something new that we/you would want.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- Norway
I think this is worth stressing, and possibly repeating in the main post when the Reallocation Update rolls around. Most of our projects "should" in some sense have RpT costs. Our income should be disappearing almost as fast as we gain it, because we build so many things that require upkeep. Reallocation is that upkeep, handled in bulk.
- Location
- alphen aan den rijn
would maybe not be a bad thing to take a small step back for a bit.
The limited perspective is a feature not a bug. I'm not a QM and I can't speak to anyone's deep internal desires besides my own, but I'm pretty sure it's like the entire point of the planquest genre that the players only ever get to see a fraction of the reality on the ground. We're not the omnipotent disembodied spirit of the nation, we're a dude at a desk in Manchester who only ever sees and hears what gets filtered up through the dozen layers of bureaucrat between us and the ground. It's Seeing Like a State but as a forums game, we're not supposed to make perfect decisions and to me at least, getting into petty bureaucratic beefs with people on the same team because they want to take "our" money means the system is working, not broken.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Again, we are literally the department of building the buildings, of course it's our job, who else's would it be?
They're the departments of all the stuff that happens inside the buildings after they're built; they're not gonna get much done without funds.
- Location
- Tulsa Oklahoma
No, we're the department involved in the acquisition and maintenance of resources required to keep the GDI functioning, as well as the logistics therein.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Which means we operate the tiberium mines and build the buildings (e.g. factories, schools, highways).
Not that we are either responsible for, or involved in, the ongoing upkeep of those facilities. We do not, in point of fact, spend resources to "maintain" the facilities we build. We do not employ, so far as I can determine, the personnel who work there. All we ever do is build things, operate tiberium mines, and presumably disburse the proceeds of that tiberium mining so that the rest of the government (and society at large) can function.
For us to somehow be unhappy that we have to do that last part is nonsensical. Imagine a US Mint employee whining about how the Mint makes all the money in America, but doesn't get to keep all of it or decide how all of it is spent!
- Location
- Tulsa Oklahoma
It's more like a mint employee complaining that we need to get a completely new engraving for a new commemorative coin, but we are not allowed to go to the library of congress in order to get a copy of any pictures to use to base the commemorative coin on, instead having to go to the location to take the picture ourselves to use in the engraving, or the Department of Energy demanding the mint to set up all the electrical wiring for the nation since the coins they produce use copper in their composition.
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The mint doesn't have a magic sci-fi free copper machine in their basement, don't take the metaphor too literally. If the US Mint had a magic free copper machine that only they could operate it would be entirely reasonable for other people to ask them for copper. We're the only ones in GDI with the personnel and resources to operate the free money machine, everyone wanting free money from us is fine. They literally can't get it from anywhere else, since all the private mining operations are out of business and we stole all the expertise.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
No. No it is not.
First, Cryo's analogy about the magic copper machine applies. GDI's entire economy depends on tiberium harvesting, we've made it very clear that there is to be no private tiberium harvesting anywhere in our territory, and so the Treasury is the only entity capable of harvesting the resource the entire economy depends on.
As such, it is ludicrously unreasonable for us to demand full control of everything that runs on the tiberium economy just because we mine all the tiberium.
But if we are not to have total control of everything that runs on the tiberium economy, then obviously there are large slices of the economy that we simply have nothing to do with, do not control, and which perforce require government funding drawn out of GDI's overall RpT budget.
Which is where reallocation comes in.
Your resentment of this process is illogical, because the only way we could not have reallocation would be for literally everything to be a Treasury-run command economy. Which would be disastrously complex and make things miserable for the QM, difficult for the players, and extremely stressful in-character for the Treasury itself.
You seem to imagine reallocation as "the government is stealing our money." It was never our money to begin with. We are roleplaying a collection of civil servants in a democracy; the money that passes through our hands is not our property, but is rather a public trust. It is not our in-character responsibility to make all decisiosn about the economy. It is the legislature's job to give us orders and the people's role to give the legislature orders.
If you can't deal with that, I suggest you find a quest that doesn't involve roleplaying civil servants in a democracy, or anyone else who has a boss that gives them orders. Because the underlying attitude of resenting someone who has bigger-picture responsibilities for not giving us maximal control of all the state's resources is unhelpful in for people who operate in that role.
It's like joining a "you are a colonel in an army at war" quest and being angry that you can't just be super-pacifist all the time. The attitude inherently conflicts with the premise.
Also important; the Treasury Department (that is, us) is also the boss of the taxmen. Every scrap of money that GDI handles, from the purchase of the bricks to build GDI's office buildings to the wages of a random teacher, soldier, member of parliament and even the Director and Secretary of the Treasury goes through the Treasury's hand at one point or another. Of this roughly 1800 RpT income, it gets to keep about 800 RpT to do Treasury things with.
This means that the rest of GDI has to divide between themselves nearly as much money as the Treasury has for its own discretionary budget.
If we were an actual Treasury department we'd be lucky to have 100 RpT to throw around and 80 of it would be locked off into running things like the IRS, or the entire vast bureaucracy stamping and checking all the forms saying stuff like 'please give us the money that was promised so we can buy 10 new firetrucks for the New York Fire Department', 'we would like the money to pay for the work lunches for our railway inspectors', and 'celebrating New Year with a fireworks display is expensive', with minimal if any discretion on what to pay out.
We aren't so much a Treasury Department as a combination of the Finance Department, the long term economic projections group, a whole slew of different development sub departments and, by coincidence, the guys who countersign all of GDI's payslips.
This means that the rest of GDI has to divide between themselves nearly as much money as the Treasury has for its own discretionary budget.
If we were an actual Treasury department we'd be lucky to have 100 RpT to throw around and 80 of it would be locked off into running things like the IRS, or the entire vast bureaucracy stamping and checking all the forms saying stuff like 'please give us the money that was promised so we can buy 10 new firetrucks for the New York Fire Department', 'we would like the money to pay for the work lunches for our railway inspectors', and 'celebrating New Year with a fireworks display is expensive', with minimal if any discretion on what to pay out.
We aren't so much a Treasury Department as a combination of the Finance Department, the long term economic projections group, a whole slew of different development sub departments and, by coincidence, the guys who countersign all of GDI's payslips.
The thing is though we still might use them even if it made getting our plan goals harder to get cause of narrative for example if we had the option to use orbital die on orbital military projects we might have used it as a way to speed run orsct as a last minute way for getting ready for the global brushfire war coming, or some other future narrative reason, so I think their would be options where we would realistically take it either way at the end of the day it should be a option for us to take
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Bluntly, I see no reason to hassle the QM to allow us to throw in rules that we're unlikely to want to use for the foreseeable future. Almost any plausible space project can be handled with dice from the relevant category plus Free dice. We didn't use our Orbital dice for the stabilizer constellation, after all, and doing so would have made at least as much sense as using them to orbit OSRCT stations.
If thirteen or more dice per turn aren't enough to get your project done, you're doing something wrong, probably something shaped like "failure to plan ahead."
GDIOnline Q2 2059
- Location
- The Underdark
GDI Online Q2 2059
General Election Thread 2060: Marking the Clock
Dr. Henry Ormonde
Right, so general election time again. I really don't know on this one. The parties are mostly feeling uninspiring and marking time. The usual suspects are making a buzz, but honestly there is no momentum towards any actual reforms. People are liking the plan goals, liking that there is movement towards restarting caffeine production (fucking finally. Give me some damn coffee you lackwitted technocrats), the military is not screaming (as much anyway) and I expect that we will be seeing a broad developmentalist coalition ending up in power at the end of the day.
The only real question is the Green Zones and the refugees. We don't know which way they will split, and that is likely to determine the shape of the outcome.
TopTierCitizens
There are some of us that are very unhappy with the plan goals. We did not ask to be sharing our cities and our buildings, constructed with the sweat and blood of Initiative brows, with the neobarbarians that do nothing but invade us and try to kill us.
AccomplishingProvidence
#Dr. Henry Ormonde , while you're generally right about the GZs and refugees, I think we can at least predict they won't be voting for the party of small-minded bigots, aka Initiative First. Who are probably doing a fantastic job advertising, in one way or another, for any and all maximally-opposed groups. In various ways and meanings of that phrase as well.
LastLizard
As one of the people who've actually been shot at, I'm not entirely hot on the idea but they do damn well deserve better then what they'd get otherwise. No one deserves to live one misstep from a long lingering death.
RocketMan
I have a little bit of a case of mixed feelings so far. On the one hand, everything seems to be going pretty smoothly since Secretary Granger stepped down, and it's exciting watching the Philly take shape through my telescope, but on the other hand it also kinda feels… I don't know whether the word is underwhelming or tense. Maybe both. Kinda like the eye of a hurricane. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.
KroptokinsGhost
Starbound will sweep parliament and we will blast off to victory!
1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
First election for me! So even if nothing super exciting for yall, I am excited. A little anxious about screwing up vote registration or something happening, but should be good.
Edit: #TopTierCitizens you know what the G in GDI stands for right?
Dr. Henry Ormond
#1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
Most, if not all of your information should already be in the system. All you need to do is send a standard request to the election registration commission, they will send you a packet, read it over, and countersign where indicated, or note where they have made a mistake. Then declare party affiliation (if and only if you want to).
JDR
All of this socialism is spending the resources of tomorrow. It won't work. Sooner or later we will need to liberalize the markets and privatize these wasteful state run enterprises before we outrun our ability to support them.
1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
#Dr. Henry Ormond Then im all good, thanks! Debated declaring for Starbound, but decided to go unaffiliated. Like the freedom of changing my mind come election day.
YellowZon3r
I might put my next vote towards developmentalists. Maybe maybe free market party. Yes, shocking I know. "YellowZon3r aren't you a UYL supporter?!" Well, yes. But broadly speaking a bunch of voters where I am are drifting towards the Developmentalists. Which, is fair, their manifesto is broadly similar, but frankly a bunch of the UYL are still getting stuck in the victim mindset. We don't need special exceptions or preferential treatment, just actual equality. It was great when we needed the help, and needed our own interest to counter initiative first fuckery. But some people are lazy and would rather just take handouts from the state welfare budget rather than work. "But that doesn't explain why free market party?" Well hang on, I'm getting there. See it doesn't seem to be a priority for developmentalists, but, there's a market and where there's a market the fmp seem willing to step in. Hear me out. AI Waifu's. With more advanced EVA's, developments in synthetic skin and organs. Well. Men are expendable, but soon so are women. There's a start-up, they've done the research. They have the Math. AI waifu's. Cheaper than getting married. Enjoy it while it lasts staceys. With iron wombs and Ai waifu's you'll soon be obsolete.
GDIWife
#YellowZon3r You say you don't need preferential treatment but you've been getting BETTER than you DESERVED from the beginning. It's BLUE zoners who are fighting to keep us safe, BLUE zoners growing the food for you to eat and BLUE zoners who build this GDI into something WORTH having just so Nod loving yellows can take and take and TAKE.
Yellowzon3r
#GDIWife LOL. LMAO. You mad b***h? I'd say screw you but well. AI waifu's soon. As for take take take? GDI came to me. I haven't moved. But fine. I pay my taxes to GDI thanks and TY credit where it's due. But if I'm paying taxes I really don't see any reason why I should pay for a housewife too when I can just pick exactly what I want off a shelf. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Learn your history, centuries of war where men are expendable, you don't need all of us, just some of us thanks to gene banks. But guess what, men are less valuable, we got told to cope. Soon women will be less valuable too thanks to tech advances. Breathe. Cope. Swivel.
CAP {MODERATOR} Infracted. Language.
JDR
As a dues paying member of the Free Market Party, sincerely, stop associating your misogynist nonsense with the FMP. We want sane, responsible, fiscally conservative governance, not to enable people to be troglodytic housebound shitposters.
FloatingWood
#Dr Henry Ormonde, doc, I am surprised that you are still addicted to the dirty bean infusion. It's been near enough a decade now, surely it has passed.
And if it isn't, I've been hearing some complete and utter madness from the agricultural PR guys. Something about making KUDZU tea. I'd hoped that demon plant was long, long dead now.
#1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx, turns out that one of the things GDI absolutely got right was 'you have a fundamental right to vote and we will damn well try and make sure you can exercise that right'.
#Yellowzon3r, #GDIWife, those are… quite some takes on gender relations and BZ/YZ politics.
As for where I'm voting… I'm not sure to be honest. On the one side I like the SP, but I have some distinct doubts about their support for Director Litvinov, something about her just doesn't sit right with me, on the other side the SMP has a few good ideas but I'd rather not imply that a return to the political status quo ante bellum is a good idea and on the pie in the sky side there's Starbound, and getting off this rock does sound like a good long term plan.
ComingForYourTib
#Yellowzon3r Listen mate, I get that #GDIWife is toxic as all hell but tone down the weird gender theory. We don't want that here
Dr. Henry Ormonde
#FloatingWood I actually like the taste of coffee. Give me a nice light roast, and a good french press, and I am happy.
People who say death before decaf are there for the caffeine. The people who say give me the beans are there for the coffee.
As for Kudzu tea, I have heard the same thing. Honestly, it's pretty interesting. The problem with most caffeine plants is that they take extremely long times to grow, but if you can make something that grows fast you can get the luxury without the wait.
AgathaH
Starbound, still. Because that way I can look down on the racists while looking down on everyone. I mean, yeah, it would be nice to be working on housing now, but… some of the things going into Philly are so very shiny.
InTheZONE
I'll be voting militarists. More funding to blow up Nod is always nice and at least since the split I can vote for people who'll make that a priority without endorsing a bunch of arseholes who think living in a blue zone and never seeing a tib crystal makes them worthy (Yeah, I'm talkin 'bout you #GDIWife #TopTierCitizens)
YellowZon3r
#fFoatingWood, no one is special. Nothing matters. Go watch TV. I like women, they look nice. But fact of the matter is most humans are superfluous. I am too. Men have been for a while. Women choose men based on their wealth/ability to provide and looks. Men choose women based on their ability to provide and looks too. Those are of course wide generalisations. But they have their root in fact. I could get shot in the head tomorrow or blown up by a maniac and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the big picture. I'd be replaced by someone else, or a drone. Or whatever. I'm replaceable. The only difference between me and #GDIWife is I know I'm worthless. I've been told it for years. For her she's just now been shocked with the idea the world doesn't revolve around her and she's soon gonna be replaceable too. More replaceable. I mean, not like husbands don't dump their wives for a younger model all the time amirite?
Dr. Henry Ormonde
I think someone got taken for a ride. I mean really AI Waifubots? Really. And instead of being able to recognize when someone is spinning him a line of bullshit, he has doubled down on spreading the nonsense.
P455w0rd
I'll say. Sounds like another scam to me: Filter out the sane people with sexist bullshit, then feed the brainwashed idiots the "solution" to their bizarre beliefs in the form of an impossible product. Worst part is that we have to suffer through all this garbage while the scammer's sitting happy on a pile of Credits.
AccomplishingProvidence
#Dr. Henry Ormonde , a french press? Someone's getting fancy. I say just make it blacker than Kane's soul, and then drink it blazing hot. It'll put hair in all the right places, regardless of which gender you are. Good to know that tea is coming along as well; we need something to have conversations over. Coffee is for consciousness, tea is for conversations.
#AgathaH , you just want the Big Space Guns, don't try to act like it's something more than that. It's alright; GDI is the government of Big Guns. It's only natural.
GDIWife
#YellowZon3r Excuse me? SOME of us want more than MONEY and LOOKS. SOME of us choose based on more important things like SERVICE. SOMETHING a yellow zoner wouldn't understand because they sit there looking for HANDOUTS from GDI or NOD, they don't care.
EarthDefender
#1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
Yes, yes, "Global" Defense Initiative. Well newsflash buddy, GDI hasn't been staying true to its name since it stabbed the ideals of the nations that founded it, the nations that created the civilized world, in the back. You can bet your ass that the USA, UK, France, and all the founders never would have let us get drowned in neo-barbs who think every problem in the world can be solved if you shoot at it enough.
FloatingWood
#YellowZon3r, if that is your approach to life, I can only hope you find something you find worth living for.
#Dr Henry Ormonde, I do not understand that point of view, but, well, I just really don't like the taste of coffee. Tea too, so… But then some people say my sense of seasoning is crazy, but my answer to that is that the burning sensation is part of the taste.
#AccomplishingProvidence, I was unaware you could brew coffee so dark it makes a black hole.
#EVAMod, I think some people could use a gentle reminder here.
#EarthDefender, yes, 'let us go over there, shoot everybody who doesn't want to work for us and lord it over the poor'. Very civilized.
YellowZon3r
#GDIWife you clearly know nothing about me. But I've got a service you can perform.
And it might not be looks or service you were picked by but it clearly wasn't brains.
#FloatingWood, I have something worth living for. Plenty of things. H-anime, drunken one night stands. Myself. Don't you worry about me buddy.
InTheZONE
#EarthDefender To be fair, some problems can be solved by shooting at it enough
AgathaH
#AccomplishingProvidence Not just the Big Space Guns.
ProfCollingsworth
Well, we seem to have quite the diversity of opinions here. Sadly, we have some people who are trying to have a similar diversity of facts, which tends to not work so well. I will say that I am looking forward to more widely-available tea… or at least something that is better than what I have now, which seems to be a product of Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.
#EarthDefender As a historian, your rose-tinted view of the "First World Nations" which named the GDI as "global", but meant "defend our interests" is profoundly naive. And is probably the sort of thing that NOD provocateurs love to see. After all, much of their work is in furthering the belief of their subjects that the GDI refuses to help them, due to selfishness and bigotry.
AccomplishingProvidence
#FloatingWood , you just have to keep brewing it. Then, when you think it's done, brew it a bit more. It admittedly takes a high-quality machine; office machines would make motor oil sludge rather than concentrated dark matter.
#AgathaH as long as you're being honest with yourself. Being honest with ourselves is one of the key steps to peace within our hearts and minds.
#EarthDefender, it's curious. You make the statement "the nations that 'created' civilization" (which is in and of itself a somewhat paradoxical statement, as "civilization" existed before the formal acknowledgement of nation-states in any appreciable form), and then you list nations that took centuries more to adopt things invented in places like the Middle East or Far East. For instance, our numeral system was invented in India, popularized in the Middle East, and only centuries later had it been firmly entrenched in Europe. China was using the compass for a thousand years before Europe. And so on. Do not be so quick or simplistic in your evaluation of other nations and cultures.
YellowZon3r
#accomplishing providence. Agreed on the middle east and numbers, if we were using 'civilised' roman numerals we'd be trying to write VxV=XXV which is a tiny bit confusing. Also slaughtering farm animals to try and read the future from their guts.
FloatingWood
#GDIWife, YZers cover the length and breadth of humanity the same way BZers do, and the YZers we get? Those are the go getters, the motivated, the ambitious. The ones who want to mean and do something. If they are sitting on their arse doing nothing, it is because people are afraid to let them do something, because if they weren't they'd probably do the same work as you and me just as well as either of us could.
#YellowZon3r, IIRC Arabian numerals IIRC started in India as a counting system, and was adopted in Europe on the general basis of being vastly superior to Roman numerals for counting in ease of use. Although #ProfCollingsworth can probably expand on that. Or at least point us towards somebody who is better at it.
EarthDefender
#ProfCollingsworth
So what? That makes it okay that GDI abandoned France, Germany, and the USA beyond whatever bits of coastline they saw as economically productive? They could have been saved. But no, apparently the West African coastline and fucking Chile are more important than the greatest nations of the First World.
#AccomplishingProvidence
And all of those so-called "great civilizations" fell to pieces while it took an alien death rock from beyond Earth combined with the rest of the planet stabbing it in the back to bring the First World down. I know which is most worthy of respect.
FloatingWood
#EarthDefender, okay, two things. One, if I were to estimate the 'greatest nations on Earth' by their cuisines the US and UK would be rock bottom with their shitty food, and the West African coastline cultures and Chile at least in the middle. Even France gets a barely passing grade, because for most of their food to taste good you need a culinary degree.
Two, the Mississippi valley is a Red Zone because the USA let farmers seed their fields with tib for extra money. So they fail on that, too.
InTheZONE
#EarthDefender Well none of those "greatest nations" had railguns and power armour so how great were they really?
ProfCollingsworth
#FloatingWood Here's a decent introduction. (link)
#EarthDefender That's not how it happened. I don't expect to convince you, but if you were interested in the history of how Tiberium spread, here is a list of corporations headquartered in GDI founding countries which deliberately spread Tiberium into the heartlands of those countries.
1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
#EarthDefender I'm not your buddy, guy. And let me brush the dust off the names of such wonderful nations as the... UK? France? USA? "never would have let us get drowned in neo-barbs who think every problem in the world can be solved if you shoot at it enough." my ass. I know my education was spotty but damn, I thought at least blue zones could afford actual history books, not propaganda leaflets.
SpeakertoManagers
#ProfCollingsworth Yes, a list of corporations who were misled by early NOD propaganda about how dangerous Tiberium was and were obligated by fiduciary duties to their shareholders to act in accordance with the best knowledge available to them. You shouldn't blame the corporations, but instead the deliberate accelerationism by NOD that plagued the countries in these early years. It wasn't all corporations either, private citizens were quite active in trying to cash in on the first Tiberium Boom. So were socialist states-look at the Remediation of North Korea in the 30s and 40s, how hard it was to stamp out every scrap of tiberium in a region just barely bigger than the old state of Virginia. Look at China-hell, look at BZ-18, that's all that's left of the Indian government that helped found GDI!
Crucible
The last few months have been a very trying and interesting time in my life. I feel I have been called upon to be the voice of reformation for those who were once aligned with Nod but have come to find a new home with GDI. For many months I have been traveling, speaking to those who have seen fit to set aside the old enmity that has plagued this world for the past decades. Some have listened, some have turned me away, fearful that their place in GDI would be jeopardized by admitting that they believe that there is some worth in the teachings of Nod. Some have even attacked me.
And yet, there are those that live within the lands of GDI who still believe, and who seek to become part of a new Nod, one where our faith no longer needs to come into reckless conflict with a GDI that has proven itself more willing to live up to its name and ideals.
Some brave men and women have even decided to stand with me for election. I do not know if we will find any success, but I believe that in this new and kinder GDI, there is a place for us. A place where the love of old Earth and the strong protection of the innocent and what is left of the natural world can join with the belief in a better tomorrow, of Humanity ascendant through the power of Tiberium. A world where there can be peace. True peace, without needing to extinguish either the light of GDI or Nod. This world has become sick and I believe, working together, we can begin to truly heal it. What's more, to heal the ancient rifts between all the people of this world. If my words have reached you, it would be my greatest honour to serve you as your representative. If my words have reached you, vote for the Open Hand party.
FloatingWood
#SpeakerToManagers, if that is so, the people who made the decision to force the corporations to spread tiberium should've been held responsible for the results of their decision to force said corporations to take those actions. Which means the stockholders, the top level management, and the government bodies and the officials holding the offices that write the laws on the duties of a corporation relative to the ownership.
YellowZon3r
#EarthDefender. Man, today I learned tib took out Babylon, Rome, Persia, Carthage, Imperial China, The Aztecs, The Mayans, Rome (Byzantium) and Macedon. (probably others too)
FusionFur
So, this… fascinating bit of history lesson/argument (do actual debates between historians have a similar level of heat to them?) aside, everyone else has been cheering for Caffeine. Is now a good time to mention that even when it was available, I've never had coffee or tea? I've uh… just never seen the appeal.
ProfCollingsworth
#FusionFur Oh, this is positively genial compared to what we get up to in academia.
#SpeakerToManagers Perhaps you should actually read the document on the other side of that link?
FloatingWood
#FusionFur, unless you absolutely need to feel more awake than you actually are, you are missing nothing at all.
Speakertomanagers
#Crucible Boy I hope you enjoy spending your next MONTH explaining this stunt to INOPS.
#ProfCollingsworth, believe me, I've read your document, and it's revisionist history. As I expected, you're playing up natural human failings as unique to corporations and not as the normal, everyday greed that it really was.
1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
#Crucible Do you have a list of candidates and where they are running?
Crucible
#1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx I cannot justify naming every candidate in this one post as I am afraid I would take up most peoples screens, however, if you like I can send you a link to our webpage that lists every candidate on our list, we have at least four in every zone, so that we are well placed to serve the different communities of the world as best we can, depending on how well we do in elections. You can also find detailed Bios of every candidate, as we believe it is best to be as open and honest about the past as we can be, to build a better present and future.
InTheZONE
#Crucible I honestly don't know if you're delusional, an optimistic or just a better person than I am. I don't think you'll succeed at making a better world where GDI and Nod coexist but I wish you luck anyway. You'll need it
Crucible
#InTheZone Many things are impossible until they happen. I have seen many horrors, and if my actions can stop more from happening, even if it is only once, even if it is only a single life, then I believe it is worth it. Personally, I hope that by proving there is a place for us in GDI, more will be willing to set aside their weapons and work together for a better and more peaceful world.
GDIWife
#Crucible It's people like YOU that show we CANNOT TRUST YELLOWS. You come to OUR homes and bring your POISON that good blue zoners are DYING to fight. NOD CANNOT BE TRUSTED!!!!! Go back to the slums that you used to call a home, it's all you DESERVE
Crucible
#GDIWife You sound like you are in a great deal of pain. I will not speculate, but I can only say that I am sorry for any part I may have played in it. I too have known great pain, it is a heavy burden, one that cannot be easily set aside. I will hope and pray that in time, you may find peace and comfort in your life. May your future be happy.
InitiativeWolf
I'm going to be voting militarists, again, which probably doesn't come as a surprise to anyone who knows me. I guess the developmentalists are doing a good job on the homefront; being able to afford all that new military hardware while still apparently performing economic miracles left right and center. Hearing about all the new space development feels weird, it certainly happened fast I'll tell you that. HOWEVER, as someone who is out there fighting the good fight I can't say I particularly care about more clothes or new appliances or whatever it is you civvies are getting all hot and bothered about these days. Coffee sounds amazing; I can't exactly abuse combat stimulants just because I'm up late. Not unless I want to get several knife-hands in my face and some more hearing damage that is. No, I'd rather continue to put pressure on the NOD bastards. I know we are winning, but sometimes it doesn't feel like it. Not sure how much I am allowed to say, but I took part in a pretty big battle not long ago. We managed to win no doubt about that, but they gave us a bloody nose, which in the military means a lot of people on your side died. Lost some people I'd like to think were friends.
#EarthDefender You keep your fucking yap shut, you hear me? I don't know about you, but the people going out there, fighting and dying for the GDI? They're from everywhere, not just your First World bullshit. If you can't get that through your thick skull then maybe you should put something else through it, aye?
EarthDefender
#YellowZon3r
I said that unlike the First World, all of those old civilizations fell without Tiberium needing to be part of it, you dumbass. God, I know you Yellow Zoners don't have much of an education but I thought you at least had basic reading comprehension.
1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
#GDIWife My dad tried his best to teach me that everyone has their place in this world, to consider the opportunities in all situations good or bad, but the only opportunity I am seeing here is to tell you to fuck off. And I didnt march my ass through the fucking badlands to get to GDI just to listen to you bitch and moan about how ive come here to kill your damn babies or whatever you have going on. I came here cause the REAL people in charge in GDI found a fucken heart or at least pragmatism to keep me from dying of rock lung or having to put up with the insane fucking confessor I saw far to damned often. Tl;dr: Fuck you, im staying.
InTheZONE
#GDIWife I think i speak for everyone here when I say we're DYING for you to shut up
Calvary8472
{Deleted by EVA_Automod: Personal Attacks, Excessive Profanity}
YellowZon3r
#EarthDefender. No no. You said, and I quote "Well newsflash buddy, GDI hasn't been staying true to its name since it stabbed the ideals of the nations that founded it, the nations that created the civilized world, in the back. You can bet your ass that the USA, UK, France, and all the founders" Now. Are you really going to sit there and try to say USA UK France and the other G8 nations/members of the united nations "created the civilised world". I might just be a yellowzoner but even I know there was civilisations in the North American continent before the good old USA came along with all their dirty diseases and killed a bunch of natives.
AccomplishingProvidence
My things are moving rapidly here.
#FusionFur There's nothing wrong with it if you don't drink tea or coffee. Is not the stated goal of GDI to allow freedom of personal choice? This includes what we eat and what we drink. The goal of the caffeine kudzu plants and the like is to give those who desire these beverages the option and freedom to consume them. If you are able to accomplish the same thing with other drinks, or snacks, or exercise, or sheer willpower, that is a testament to your fortitude and character.
#InitiativeWolf stay safe out there, my friend.
#1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx I am glad to hear you have safely moved somewhere that is, well, safer. I apologize that you are receiving a less-than-ideal welcome in this place, but for what it's worth, GDIOnline seems to attract particular breeds of posters. (Yes yes, pot, kettle, etc.)
#Crucible , I applaud your idealism, your commitment, your determination, and your vigor. I hope you find success, and I hope some measure of the population does what they can to emulate your thoughtfulness and grace.
YellowZon3r
Holy shit. *reads* An open hand party? I might just vote for them myself to see if I can make blues clues have a meltdown.
#Crucible what's your Manifesto say about AI waifu's?
Crucible
#AccomplishingProvidence Thank you very much for your kind words. May all of us build a better, kinder world, where words can take the place of weapons in solving our conflicts.
#Yellowzon3r It is my personal belief that AI that are both sapient and sentient are humanities children, and as such, you should only marry them if they both agree to such an arrangement and are of age to consent in the first place. Thank you for your question and support, though I hope if you look, you will find more reason to vote for us in our policies, than in tweaking the noses of those you disagree with.
FloatingWood
I don't think you can have sapience without sentience, but I'm sure there's philosophers who have gone into that question in extensive detail. I haven't heard anything about GDI developing actual AI though, just rumours about new and improved EVA models.
The answer to the question of 'we now have AI. What do we do with them?', though, is a difficult one. Mostly because now we can literally produce people, which has tons of ethical implications I am not sure GDI is ready to deal with, nor if we as a species can handle properly. It's a lot of responsibility, in many ways far more responsibility than 'just' raising a kid from birth to adulthood.
FusionFur
#FloatingWood
You can actually have sapience without sentience. Sapience is the ability to solve novel problems based on existing knowledge and the ability to reason. Sentience is basic awareness and the ability to experience. I'm not an expert, but I imagine a lot of EVAs (or at least the more advanced ones) are sapient, but not sentient.
When people say "sapience", I prefer referring to what they generally mean as "sophonce". Which is self-awareness, self-reflection, and being able to think about your own thinking. Sophonce definitely requires both being sapient and sentient.
InTheZONE
#Crucible #Yellowzon3r What would be the age of consent for an AI anyway? #FloatingWood I think for some people whether or not they can handle an AI would depend on if it was built in a blue zone or a yellow zone
GDIWife
#Crucible We DONT want you here!!!! I am REPORTING you to the MODERATORS for being a NOD SYMPATHISER!!!!!! I HOPE you get THROWN BACK to where you BELONG!!!!!!!
HumanistPatriot
Come on guys, can't we all agree that GDI should be acting for the good of all and work to rebuild the markets? We can't very well do that if we don't pull together. I think what the government's doing isn't all that bad, so long as people are allowed to strive afterwards. We should have social safety nets, but people should also be able to start their own business, right? GDI is supposed to work for everyone, not just the oligarchs, who are a fraction of a fraction of the population in the blue zones. Let there be free markets, but let there be a safety net for the little man too.
If Nod wants to put down their guns and make a better world with the rest of us, then its never too late to make a fresh start. But if they don't, and show they won't, then let's do the right thing for everyone and put an end to their insanity. I want an end to the age of interests, and build an age of actual brotherhood. I have never forgotten Charlie Chaplin's speech in the Great Dictator when he appeals to the soldiers to fight not for the men who enslave them, but for the liberty which is due to us all. That's what GDI is supposed to be, and what Nod purports to be, but their track record is unfortunately lacking.
Dr. James Granger
The Developmentalists will be my vote this time around. While I have avoided the political forums during my time in service to the Global Defense Initiative, it is time enough for me to put my own beliefs out there.
I want to believe that the goals of Starbound are possible. I want to believe in the visions of the Socialist party. But I also know that right now we need economic growth and we need to rebuild to where we were.
AccomplishingProvidence
#Crucible every time you post I am heartened even more. I do not feel it too much of a stretch to think that we both, and many of our peers, hope for a time when the only combat seen, is that of the arena of the mind.
Dodger {MODERATOR}
All right chummers, I think that's enough of that for now. Locking the thread to give people some time to cool off.
And #GDIWife, you can take a time-out for abusing the report function. A few others have been infracted for language, and other things - you know who you are and what you did.
#Calvary8472 - you were warned before, that's a final ban.
Cole_Protocol {MODERATOR}
Right, so on review, #TopTierCitizens, #EarthDefender, both of you need to knock this kind of thing off.
#YellowZon3er take a three day threadban.
#InitiativeWolf Take a chill pill or three, and no telling people to kill themselves. Take a week off.
A/N: This turn has a number of elements that kind of blew up into much larger things than they were initially intended to be. Instead of a single massive post, I am going to be releasing them as three updates. This right now, then I am aiming for the battles to come tomorrow, and then the resultspost on Monday. The schedule might slip some however.
General Election Thread 2060: Marking the Clock
Dr. Henry Ormonde
Right, so general election time again. I really don't know on this one. The parties are mostly feeling uninspiring and marking time. The usual suspects are making a buzz, but honestly there is no momentum towards any actual reforms. People are liking the plan goals, liking that there is movement towards restarting caffeine production (fucking finally. Give me some damn coffee you lackwitted technocrats), the military is not screaming (as much anyway) and I expect that we will be seeing a broad developmentalist coalition ending up in power at the end of the day.
The only real question is the Green Zones and the refugees. We don't know which way they will split, and that is likely to determine the shape of the outcome.
TopTierCitizens
There are some of us that are very unhappy with the plan goals. We did not ask to be sharing our cities and our buildings, constructed with the sweat and blood of Initiative brows, with the neobarbarians that do nothing but invade us and try to kill us.
AccomplishingProvidence
#Dr. Henry Ormonde , while you're generally right about the GZs and refugees, I think we can at least predict they won't be voting for the party of small-minded bigots, aka Initiative First. Who are probably doing a fantastic job advertising, in one way or another, for any and all maximally-opposed groups. In various ways and meanings of that phrase as well.
LastLizard
As one of the people who've actually been shot at, I'm not entirely hot on the idea but they do damn well deserve better then what they'd get otherwise. No one deserves to live one misstep from a long lingering death.
RocketMan
I have a little bit of a case of mixed feelings so far. On the one hand, everything seems to be going pretty smoothly since Secretary Granger stepped down, and it's exciting watching the Philly take shape through my telescope, but on the other hand it also kinda feels… I don't know whether the word is underwhelming or tense. Maybe both. Kinda like the eye of a hurricane. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.
KroptokinsGhost
Starbound will sweep parliament and we will blast off to victory!
1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
First election for me! So even if nothing super exciting for yall, I am excited. A little anxious about screwing up vote registration or something happening, but should be good.
Edit: #TopTierCitizens you know what the G in GDI stands for right?
Dr. Henry Ormond
#1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
Most, if not all of your information should already be in the system. All you need to do is send a standard request to the election registration commission, they will send you a packet, read it over, and countersign where indicated, or note where they have made a mistake. Then declare party affiliation (if and only if you want to).
JDR
All of this socialism is spending the resources of tomorrow. It won't work. Sooner or later we will need to liberalize the markets and privatize these wasteful state run enterprises before we outrun our ability to support them.
1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
#Dr. Henry Ormond Then im all good, thanks! Debated declaring for Starbound, but decided to go unaffiliated. Like the freedom of changing my mind come election day.
YellowZon3r
I might put my next vote towards developmentalists. Maybe maybe free market party. Yes, shocking I know. "YellowZon3r aren't you a UYL supporter?!" Well, yes. But broadly speaking a bunch of voters where I am are drifting towards the Developmentalists. Which, is fair, their manifesto is broadly similar, but frankly a bunch of the UYL are still getting stuck in the victim mindset. We don't need special exceptions or preferential treatment, just actual equality. It was great when we needed the help, and needed our own interest to counter initiative first fuckery. But some people are lazy and would rather just take handouts from the state welfare budget rather than work. "But that doesn't explain why free market party?" Well hang on, I'm getting there. See it doesn't seem to be a priority for developmentalists, but, there's a market and where there's a market the fmp seem willing to step in. Hear me out. AI Waifu's. With more advanced EVA's, developments in synthetic skin and organs. Well. Men are expendable, but soon so are women. There's a start-up, they've done the research. They have the Math. AI waifu's. Cheaper than getting married. Enjoy it while it lasts staceys. With iron wombs and Ai waifu's you'll soon be obsolete.
GDIWife
#YellowZon3r You say you don't need preferential treatment but you've been getting BETTER than you DESERVED from the beginning. It's BLUE zoners who are fighting to keep us safe, BLUE zoners growing the food for you to eat and BLUE zoners who build this GDI into something WORTH having just so Nod loving yellows can take and take and TAKE.
Yellowzon3r
#GDIWife LOL. LMAO. You mad b***h? I'd say screw you but well. AI waifu's soon. As for take take take? GDI came to me. I haven't moved. But fine. I pay my taxes to GDI thanks and TY credit where it's due. But if I'm paying taxes I really don't see any reason why I should pay for a housewife too when I can just pick exactly what I want off a shelf. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Learn your history, centuries of war where men are expendable, you don't need all of us, just some of us thanks to gene banks. But guess what, men are less valuable, we got told to cope. Soon women will be less valuable too thanks to tech advances. Breathe. Cope. Swivel.
CAP {MODERATOR} Infracted. Language.
JDR
As a dues paying member of the Free Market Party, sincerely, stop associating your misogynist nonsense with the FMP. We want sane, responsible, fiscally conservative governance, not to enable people to be troglodytic housebound shitposters.
FloatingWood
#Dr Henry Ormonde, doc, I am surprised that you are still addicted to the dirty bean infusion. It's been near enough a decade now, surely it has passed.
And if it isn't, I've been hearing some complete and utter madness from the agricultural PR guys. Something about making KUDZU tea. I'd hoped that demon plant was long, long dead now.
#1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx, turns out that one of the things GDI absolutely got right was 'you have a fundamental right to vote and we will damn well try and make sure you can exercise that right'.
#Yellowzon3r, #GDIWife, those are… quite some takes on gender relations and BZ/YZ politics.
As for where I'm voting… I'm not sure to be honest. On the one side I like the SP, but I have some distinct doubts about their support for Director Litvinov, something about her just doesn't sit right with me, on the other side the SMP has a few good ideas but I'd rather not imply that a return to the political status quo ante bellum is a good idea and on the pie in the sky side there's Starbound, and getting off this rock does sound like a good long term plan.
ComingForYourTib
#Yellowzon3r Listen mate, I get that #GDIWife is toxic as all hell but tone down the weird gender theory. We don't want that here
Dr. Henry Ormonde
#FloatingWood I actually like the taste of coffee. Give me a nice light roast, and a good french press, and I am happy.
People who say death before decaf are there for the caffeine. The people who say give me the beans are there for the coffee.
As for Kudzu tea, I have heard the same thing. Honestly, it's pretty interesting. The problem with most caffeine plants is that they take extremely long times to grow, but if you can make something that grows fast you can get the luxury without the wait.
AgathaH
Starbound, still. Because that way I can look down on the racists while looking down on everyone. I mean, yeah, it would be nice to be working on housing now, but… some of the things going into Philly are so very shiny.
InTheZONE
I'll be voting militarists. More funding to blow up Nod is always nice and at least since the split I can vote for people who'll make that a priority without endorsing a bunch of arseholes who think living in a blue zone and never seeing a tib crystal makes them worthy (Yeah, I'm talkin 'bout you #GDIWife #TopTierCitizens)
YellowZon3r
#fFoatingWood, no one is special. Nothing matters. Go watch TV. I like women, they look nice. But fact of the matter is most humans are superfluous. I am too. Men have been for a while. Women choose men based on their wealth/ability to provide and looks. Men choose women based on their ability to provide and looks too. Those are of course wide generalisations. But they have their root in fact. I could get shot in the head tomorrow or blown up by a maniac and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the big picture. I'd be replaced by someone else, or a drone. Or whatever. I'm replaceable. The only difference between me and #GDIWife is I know I'm worthless. I've been told it for years. For her she's just now been shocked with the idea the world doesn't revolve around her and she's soon gonna be replaceable too. More replaceable. I mean, not like husbands don't dump their wives for a younger model all the time amirite?
Dr. Henry Ormonde
I think someone got taken for a ride. I mean really AI Waifubots? Really. And instead of being able to recognize when someone is spinning him a line of bullshit, he has doubled down on spreading the nonsense.
P455w0rd
I'll say. Sounds like another scam to me: Filter out the sane people with sexist bullshit, then feed the brainwashed idiots the "solution" to their bizarre beliefs in the form of an impossible product. Worst part is that we have to suffer through all this garbage while the scammer's sitting happy on a pile of Credits.
AccomplishingProvidence
#Dr. Henry Ormonde , a french press? Someone's getting fancy. I say just make it blacker than Kane's soul, and then drink it blazing hot. It'll put hair in all the right places, regardless of which gender you are. Good to know that tea is coming along as well; we need something to have conversations over. Coffee is for consciousness, tea is for conversations.
#AgathaH , you just want the Big Space Guns, don't try to act like it's something more than that. It's alright; GDI is the government of Big Guns. It's only natural.
GDIWife
#YellowZon3r Excuse me? SOME of us want more than MONEY and LOOKS. SOME of us choose based on more important things like SERVICE. SOMETHING a yellow zoner wouldn't understand because they sit there looking for HANDOUTS from GDI or NOD, they don't care.
EarthDefender
#1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
Yes, yes, "Global" Defense Initiative. Well newsflash buddy, GDI hasn't been staying true to its name since it stabbed the ideals of the nations that founded it, the nations that created the civilized world, in the back. You can bet your ass that the USA, UK, France, and all the founders never would have let us get drowned in neo-barbs who think every problem in the world can be solved if you shoot at it enough.
FloatingWood
#YellowZon3r, if that is your approach to life, I can only hope you find something you find worth living for.
#Dr Henry Ormonde, I do not understand that point of view, but, well, I just really don't like the taste of coffee. Tea too, so… But then some people say my sense of seasoning is crazy, but my answer to that is that the burning sensation is part of the taste.
#AccomplishingProvidence, I was unaware you could brew coffee so dark it makes a black hole.
#EVAMod, I think some people could use a gentle reminder here.
#EarthDefender, yes, 'let us go over there, shoot everybody who doesn't want to work for us and lord it over the poor'. Very civilized.
YellowZon3r
#GDIWife you clearly know nothing about me. But I've got a service you can perform.
And it might not be looks or service you were picked by but it clearly wasn't brains.
#FloatingWood, I have something worth living for. Plenty of things. H-anime, drunken one night stands. Myself. Don't you worry about me buddy.
InTheZONE
#EarthDefender To be fair, some problems can be solved by shooting at it enough
AgathaH
#AccomplishingProvidence Not just the Big Space Guns.
ProfCollingsworth
Well, we seem to have quite the diversity of opinions here. Sadly, we have some people who are trying to have a similar diversity of facts, which tends to not work so well. I will say that I am looking forward to more widely-available tea… or at least something that is better than what I have now, which seems to be a product of Sirius Cybernetics Corporation.
#EarthDefender As a historian, your rose-tinted view of the "First World Nations" which named the GDI as "global", but meant "defend our interests" is profoundly naive. And is probably the sort of thing that NOD provocateurs love to see. After all, much of their work is in furthering the belief of their subjects that the GDI refuses to help them, due to selfishness and bigotry.
AccomplishingProvidence
#FloatingWood , you just have to keep brewing it. Then, when you think it's done, brew it a bit more. It admittedly takes a high-quality machine; office machines would make motor oil sludge rather than concentrated dark matter.
#AgathaH as long as you're being honest with yourself. Being honest with ourselves is one of the key steps to peace within our hearts and minds.
#EarthDefender, it's curious. You make the statement "the nations that 'created' civilization" (which is in and of itself a somewhat paradoxical statement, as "civilization" existed before the formal acknowledgement of nation-states in any appreciable form), and then you list nations that took centuries more to adopt things invented in places like the Middle East or Far East. For instance, our numeral system was invented in India, popularized in the Middle East, and only centuries later had it been firmly entrenched in Europe. China was using the compass for a thousand years before Europe. And so on. Do not be so quick or simplistic in your evaluation of other nations and cultures.
YellowZon3r
#accomplishing providence. Agreed on the middle east and numbers, if we were using 'civilised' roman numerals we'd be trying to write VxV=XXV which is a tiny bit confusing. Also slaughtering farm animals to try and read the future from their guts.
FloatingWood
#GDIWife, YZers cover the length and breadth of humanity the same way BZers do, and the YZers we get? Those are the go getters, the motivated, the ambitious. The ones who want to mean and do something. If they are sitting on their arse doing nothing, it is because people are afraid to let them do something, because if they weren't they'd probably do the same work as you and me just as well as either of us could.
#YellowZon3r, IIRC Arabian numerals IIRC started in India as a counting system, and was adopted in Europe on the general basis of being vastly superior to Roman numerals for counting in ease of use. Although #ProfCollingsworth can probably expand on that. Or at least point us towards somebody who is better at it.
EarthDefender
#ProfCollingsworth
So what? That makes it okay that GDI abandoned France, Germany, and the USA beyond whatever bits of coastline they saw as economically productive? They could have been saved. But no, apparently the West African coastline and fucking Chile are more important than the greatest nations of the First World.
#AccomplishingProvidence
And all of those so-called "great civilizations" fell to pieces while it took an alien death rock from beyond Earth combined with the rest of the planet stabbing it in the back to bring the First World down. I know which is most worthy of respect.
FloatingWood
#EarthDefender, okay, two things. One, if I were to estimate the 'greatest nations on Earth' by their cuisines the US and UK would be rock bottom with their shitty food, and the West African coastline cultures and Chile at least in the middle. Even France gets a barely passing grade, because for most of their food to taste good you need a culinary degree.
Two, the Mississippi valley is a Red Zone because the USA let farmers seed their fields with tib for extra money. So they fail on that, too.
InTheZONE
#EarthDefender Well none of those "greatest nations" had railguns and power armour so how great were they really?
ProfCollingsworth
#FloatingWood Here's a decent introduction. (link)
#EarthDefender That's not how it happened. I don't expect to convince you, but if you were interested in the history of how Tiberium spread, here is a list of corporations headquartered in GDI founding countries which deliberately spread Tiberium into the heartlands of those countries.
1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
#EarthDefender I'm not your buddy, guy. And let me brush the dust off the names of such wonderful nations as the... UK? France? USA? "never would have let us get drowned in neo-barbs who think every problem in the world can be solved if you shoot at it enough." my ass. I know my education was spotty but damn, I thought at least blue zones could afford actual history books, not propaganda leaflets.
SpeakertoManagers
#ProfCollingsworth Yes, a list of corporations who were misled by early NOD propaganda about how dangerous Tiberium was and were obligated by fiduciary duties to their shareholders to act in accordance with the best knowledge available to them. You shouldn't blame the corporations, but instead the deliberate accelerationism by NOD that plagued the countries in these early years. It wasn't all corporations either, private citizens were quite active in trying to cash in on the first Tiberium Boom. So were socialist states-look at the Remediation of North Korea in the 30s and 40s, how hard it was to stamp out every scrap of tiberium in a region just barely bigger than the old state of Virginia. Look at China-hell, look at BZ-18, that's all that's left of the Indian government that helped found GDI!
Crucible
The last few months have been a very trying and interesting time in my life. I feel I have been called upon to be the voice of reformation for those who were once aligned with Nod but have come to find a new home with GDI. For many months I have been traveling, speaking to those who have seen fit to set aside the old enmity that has plagued this world for the past decades. Some have listened, some have turned me away, fearful that their place in GDI would be jeopardized by admitting that they believe that there is some worth in the teachings of Nod. Some have even attacked me.
And yet, there are those that live within the lands of GDI who still believe, and who seek to become part of a new Nod, one where our faith no longer needs to come into reckless conflict with a GDI that has proven itself more willing to live up to its name and ideals.
Some brave men and women have even decided to stand with me for election. I do not know if we will find any success, but I believe that in this new and kinder GDI, there is a place for us. A place where the love of old Earth and the strong protection of the innocent and what is left of the natural world can join with the belief in a better tomorrow, of Humanity ascendant through the power of Tiberium. A world where there can be peace. True peace, without needing to extinguish either the light of GDI or Nod. This world has become sick and I believe, working together, we can begin to truly heal it. What's more, to heal the ancient rifts between all the people of this world. If my words have reached you, it would be my greatest honour to serve you as your representative. If my words have reached you, vote for the Open Hand party.
FloatingWood
#SpeakerToManagers, if that is so, the people who made the decision to force the corporations to spread tiberium should've been held responsible for the results of their decision to force said corporations to take those actions. Which means the stockholders, the top level management, and the government bodies and the officials holding the offices that write the laws on the duties of a corporation relative to the ownership.
YellowZon3r
#EarthDefender. Man, today I learned tib took out Babylon, Rome, Persia, Carthage, Imperial China, The Aztecs, The Mayans, Rome (Byzantium) and Macedon. (probably others too)
FusionFur
So, this… fascinating bit of history lesson/argument (do actual debates between historians have a similar level of heat to them?) aside, everyone else has been cheering for Caffeine. Is now a good time to mention that even when it was available, I've never had coffee or tea? I've uh… just never seen the appeal.
ProfCollingsworth
#FusionFur Oh, this is positively genial compared to what we get up to in academia.
#SpeakerToManagers Perhaps you should actually read the document on the other side of that link?
FloatingWood
#FusionFur, unless you absolutely need to feel more awake than you actually are, you are missing nothing at all.
Speakertomanagers
#Crucible Boy I hope you enjoy spending your next MONTH explaining this stunt to INOPS.
#ProfCollingsworth, believe me, I've read your document, and it's revisionist history. As I expected, you're playing up natural human failings as unique to corporations and not as the normal, everyday greed that it really was.
1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
#Crucible Do you have a list of candidates and where they are running?
Crucible
#1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx I cannot justify naming every candidate in this one post as I am afraid I would take up most peoples screens, however, if you like I can send you a link to our webpage that lists every candidate on our list, we have at least four in every zone, so that we are well placed to serve the different communities of the world as best we can, depending on how well we do in elections. You can also find detailed Bios of every candidate, as we believe it is best to be as open and honest about the past as we can be, to build a better present and future.
InTheZONE
#Crucible I honestly don't know if you're delusional, an optimistic or just a better person than I am. I don't think you'll succeed at making a better world where GDI and Nod coexist but I wish you luck anyway. You'll need it
Crucible
#InTheZone Many things are impossible until they happen. I have seen many horrors, and if my actions can stop more from happening, even if it is only once, even if it is only a single life, then I believe it is worth it. Personally, I hope that by proving there is a place for us in GDI, more will be willing to set aside their weapons and work together for a better and more peaceful world.
GDIWife
#Crucible It's people like YOU that show we CANNOT TRUST YELLOWS. You come to OUR homes and bring your POISON that good blue zoners are DYING to fight. NOD CANNOT BE TRUSTED!!!!! Go back to the slums that you used to call a home, it's all you DESERVE
Crucible
#GDIWife You sound like you are in a great deal of pain. I will not speculate, but I can only say that I am sorry for any part I may have played in it. I too have known great pain, it is a heavy burden, one that cannot be easily set aside. I will hope and pray that in time, you may find peace and comfort in your life. May your future be happy.
InitiativeWolf
I'm going to be voting militarists, again, which probably doesn't come as a surprise to anyone who knows me. I guess the developmentalists are doing a good job on the homefront; being able to afford all that new military hardware while still apparently performing economic miracles left right and center. Hearing about all the new space development feels weird, it certainly happened fast I'll tell you that. HOWEVER, as someone who is out there fighting the good fight I can't say I particularly care about more clothes or new appliances or whatever it is you civvies are getting all hot and bothered about these days. Coffee sounds amazing; I can't exactly abuse combat stimulants just because I'm up late. Not unless I want to get several knife-hands in my face and some more hearing damage that is. No, I'd rather continue to put pressure on the NOD bastards. I know we are winning, but sometimes it doesn't feel like it. Not sure how much I am allowed to say, but I took part in a pretty big battle not long ago. We managed to win no doubt about that, but they gave us a bloody nose, which in the military means a lot of people on your side died. Lost some people I'd like to think were friends.
#EarthDefender You keep your fucking yap shut, you hear me? I don't know about you, but the people going out there, fighting and dying for the GDI? They're from everywhere, not just your First World bullshit. If you can't get that through your thick skull then maybe you should put something else through it, aye?
EarthDefender
#YellowZon3r
I said that unlike the First World, all of those old civilizations fell without Tiberium needing to be part of it, you dumbass. God, I know you Yellow Zoners don't have much of an education but I thought you at least had basic reading comprehension.
1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx
#GDIWife My dad tried his best to teach me that everyone has their place in this world, to consider the opportunities in all situations good or bad, but the only opportunity I am seeing here is to tell you to fuck off. And I didnt march my ass through the fucking badlands to get to GDI just to listen to you bitch and moan about how ive come here to kill your damn babies or whatever you have going on. I came here cause the REAL people in charge in GDI found a fucken heart or at least pragmatism to keep me from dying of rock lung or having to put up with the insane fucking confessor I saw far to damned often. Tl;dr: Fuck you, im staying.
InTheZONE
#GDIWife I think i speak for everyone here when I say we're DYING for you to shut up
Calvary8472
{Deleted by EVA_Automod: Personal Attacks, Excessive Profanity}
YellowZon3r
#EarthDefender. No no. You said, and I quote "Well newsflash buddy, GDI hasn't been staying true to its name since it stabbed the ideals of the nations that founded it, the nations that created the civilized world, in the back. You can bet your ass that the USA, UK, France, and all the founders" Now. Are you really going to sit there and try to say USA UK France and the other G8 nations/members of the united nations "created the civilised world". I might just be a yellowzoner but even I know there was civilisations in the North American continent before the good old USA came along with all their dirty diseases and killed a bunch of natives.
AccomplishingProvidence
My things are moving rapidly here.
#FusionFur There's nothing wrong with it if you don't drink tea or coffee. Is not the stated goal of GDI to allow freedom of personal choice? This includes what we eat and what we drink. The goal of the caffeine kudzu plants and the like is to give those who desire these beverages the option and freedom to consume them. If you are able to accomplish the same thing with other drinks, or snacks, or exercise, or sheer willpower, that is a testament to your fortitude and character.
#InitiativeWolf stay safe out there, my friend.
#1Fox2FoxRedFoxGreenFolx I am glad to hear you have safely moved somewhere that is, well, safer. I apologize that you are receiving a less-than-ideal welcome in this place, but for what it's worth, GDIOnline seems to attract particular breeds of posters. (Yes yes, pot, kettle, etc.)
#Crucible , I applaud your idealism, your commitment, your determination, and your vigor. I hope you find success, and I hope some measure of the population does what they can to emulate your thoughtfulness and grace.
YellowZon3r
Holy shit. *reads* An open hand party? I might just vote for them myself to see if I can make blues clues have a meltdown.
#Crucible what's your Manifesto say about AI waifu's?
Crucible
#AccomplishingProvidence Thank you very much for your kind words. May all of us build a better, kinder world, where words can take the place of weapons in solving our conflicts.
#Yellowzon3r It is my personal belief that AI that are both sapient and sentient are humanities children, and as such, you should only marry them if they both agree to such an arrangement and are of age to consent in the first place. Thank you for your question and support, though I hope if you look, you will find more reason to vote for us in our policies, than in tweaking the noses of those you disagree with.
FloatingWood
I don't think you can have sapience without sentience, but I'm sure there's philosophers who have gone into that question in extensive detail. I haven't heard anything about GDI developing actual AI though, just rumours about new and improved EVA models.
The answer to the question of 'we now have AI. What do we do with them?', though, is a difficult one. Mostly because now we can literally produce people, which has tons of ethical implications I am not sure GDI is ready to deal with, nor if we as a species can handle properly. It's a lot of responsibility, in many ways far more responsibility than 'just' raising a kid from birth to adulthood.
FusionFur
#FloatingWood
You can actually have sapience without sentience. Sapience is the ability to solve novel problems based on existing knowledge and the ability to reason. Sentience is basic awareness and the ability to experience. I'm not an expert, but I imagine a lot of EVAs (or at least the more advanced ones) are sapient, but not sentient.
When people say "sapience", I prefer referring to what they generally mean as "sophonce". Which is self-awareness, self-reflection, and being able to think about your own thinking. Sophonce definitely requires both being sapient and sentient.
InTheZONE
#Crucible #Yellowzon3r What would be the age of consent for an AI anyway? #FloatingWood I think for some people whether or not they can handle an AI would depend on if it was built in a blue zone or a yellow zone
GDIWife
#Crucible We DONT want you here!!!! I am REPORTING you to the MODERATORS for being a NOD SYMPATHISER!!!!!! I HOPE you get THROWN BACK to where you BELONG!!!!!!!
HumanistPatriot
Come on guys, can't we all agree that GDI should be acting for the good of all and work to rebuild the markets? We can't very well do that if we don't pull together. I think what the government's doing isn't all that bad, so long as people are allowed to strive afterwards. We should have social safety nets, but people should also be able to start their own business, right? GDI is supposed to work for everyone, not just the oligarchs, who are a fraction of a fraction of the population in the blue zones. Let there be free markets, but let there be a safety net for the little man too.
If Nod wants to put down their guns and make a better world with the rest of us, then its never too late to make a fresh start. But if they don't, and show they won't, then let's do the right thing for everyone and put an end to their insanity. I want an end to the age of interests, and build an age of actual brotherhood. I have never forgotten Charlie Chaplin's speech in the Great Dictator when he appeals to the soldiers to fight not for the men who enslave them, but for the liberty which is due to us all. That's what GDI is supposed to be, and what Nod purports to be, but their track record is unfortunately lacking.
Dr. James Granger
The Developmentalists will be my vote this time around. While I have avoided the political forums during my time in service to the Global Defense Initiative, it is time enough for me to put my own beliefs out there.
I want to believe that the goals of Starbound are possible. I want to believe in the visions of the Socialist party. But I also know that right now we need economic growth and we need to rebuild to where we were.
AccomplishingProvidence
#Crucible every time you post I am heartened even more. I do not feel it too much of a stretch to think that we both, and many of our peers, hope for a time when the only combat seen, is that of the arena of the mind.
Dodger {MODERATOR}
All right chummers, I think that's enough of that for now. Locking the thread to give people some time to cool off.
And #GDIWife, you can take a time-out for abusing the report function. A few others have been infracted for language, and other things - you know who you are and what you did.
#Calvary8472 - you were warned before, that's a final ban.
Cole_Protocol {MODERATOR}
Right, so on review, #TopTierCitizens, #EarthDefender, both of you need to knock this kind of thing off.
#YellowZon3er take a three day threadban.
#InitiativeWolf Take a chill pill or three, and no telling people to kill themselves. Take a week off.
A/N: This turn has a number of elements that kind of blew up into much larger things than they were initially intended to be. Instead of a single massive post, I am going to be releasing them as three updates. This right now, then I am aiming for the battles to come tomorrow, and then the resultspost on Monday. The schedule might slip some however.
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trooperist
Cinnamon Roll AI
Ah democracy. Truly the worst form of government, except for all the others.
- Location
- The Underdark
There are two ways to get this kind of result.
1. Recruit a bunch of forumgoers and give them some prompting and on SV some right wing targets to take potshots at (that is what TopTierCitizens is for)
2. Git good.
I went with the former option.
- Location
- The Underdark
Depends, are you asking how long until an AI starts dating a human? Or before one will date YellowZon3r? Because those are two very different questions.
Sailor_Skarro
The Lurker
[ ] Early Prototype General Artificial Intelligence Development
While development of true artificial intelligences is politically severely problematic, it is also an area where if a model can be developed that is sane, stable, and willing to help the Initiative, it could be a revolutionary breakthrough in many ways.
(Progress 66/120: 20 resources per die) (-10 PS)
And then EVA upgrades development just got done this turn.
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
Huh that was really was like a chat forum heck some of it made my blood rise and want to bud in and it was fictional!
Heck I saw people create said forum chat and it still reeled me in.
Heck I saw people create said forum chat and it still reeled me in.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
REACTIONPOOOOST!
But even if it's 15-20 R/die, getting that out will probably make a lot of people happier with us and more inclined to support parties that support us. Plus... it is legit what people want.
I don't remember if I should have seen this coming, but I'm sad and disappointed.
Anyway, at this point it's not addiction, it's that people miss it. Caffeine is legitimately a performance-enhancing drug and people miss what it does for them.
Nothing will ever convince me that AccomplishingProvidence isn't Kane now. Unless, of course, AccomplishingProvidence is a very confused and seemingly ageless Joseph Kucan.
(he was born in 1965 so he'd be ninety-four years old at this point, but still. )
-_-
But I want him to not be unhappy, either way. Respect what he's trying to do even if I disagree with it.
Yeah, I think we really should plan to make progress on Kudzu Plantations next turn. I am hopeful that it'll be a 10 R/die or maybe even 5 R/die product, since the stuff is literally kudzu and it's not hard to make kudzu grow, it's hard to stop, to the point where I have a sneaking suspicion that tiberium refuses to eat the stuff out of professional courtesy.
But even if it's 15-20 R/die, getting that out will probably make a lot of people happier with us and more inclined to support parties that support us. Plus... it is legit what people want.
Sadly, this is true.
...I am honestly amazed that he's not voting Socialist.
...Oh my God, YellowZon3r turned into an incel.
I don't remember if I should have seen this coming, but I'm sad and disappointed.
First time I've sympathized with an FMP person since game start.
Mwahahahaaa! Mad SCIENCE!
Anyway, at this point it's not addiction, it's that people miss it. Caffeine is legitimately a performance-enhancing drug and people miss what it does for them.
Well, Agatha, we hope to surge plenty more Housing before this Plan is over, though it may be a tight fit with the Karachi Sprint...
Nothing will ever convince me that AccomplishingProvidence isn't Kane now. Unless, of course, AccomplishingProvidence is a very confused and seemingly ageless Joseph Kucan.
(he was born in 1965 so he'd be ninety-four years old at this point, but still.
)DAMMIT, 2000-era US GOVERNMENT!
-_-
I'm with this guy.
Ehhh. I disagree with SpeakertoManagers here. I think the corporations (and, admittedly, private citizens) were doing something fundamentally reckless even if Nod was actively making things much worse on purpose.
I kind of want this guy to fail, and to succeed. So conflicted.
But I want him to not be unhappy, either way. Respect what he's trying to do even if I disagree with it.
Pretty sure Crucible's already got InOps breathing down his neck in every possible way.
Well, Jim, you dance with them that brung you; it's only fair.
I'm pretty sure neither project chains directly into AI waifus, though there might be some, ah, notable evolutions in the field of robotics coming out of the EVA development program once the private sector's little companies and co-ops get ahold of its results.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Or, to be a bit more explicit: GDIOnline segments are almost entirely written not by Ithillid but instead by SV users who participate in the Discord server for the quest. It looks like a chat room/forum because it's a bunch of users roleplaying a chatroom in an open Google-Doc.There are two ways to get this kind of result.
1. Recruit a bunch of forumgoers and give them some prompting and on SV some right wing targets to take potshots at (that is what TopTierCitizens is for)
2. Git good.
I went with the former option.
ConfusedCanuck
Where did it all go wrong?
- Location
- Neverland
I will also have to say Crucible has a Noble goal but one that will fail just too much Bad blood with anything remotely related to Kane(and his "faith") and well INOPS will be having a word about that. Still even if it's fictional I can respect taking the stand even if it will fail.