What do people think?

Transorbital fighters?
I think we Need. Some sort of space based combat ability beyond the ion cannons and satellites. Any plan I make will include at least 1 dice on doing the dev work, and at 92% that's good enough chances of completion.

But, we know the scrin are there. We need to get started on 'something' for some sort of space combat. We just finished the gravitic and fusion bay. I think we're good to build military spacecraft fighters.

They might of course rapidly become obsolete. But it's just one more area we need to keep pushing development.
 
Transorbital fighters?
I think we Need. Some sort of space based combat ability beyond the ion cannons and satellites. Any plan I make will include at least 1 dice on doing the dev work, and at 92% that's good enough chances of completion.

But, we know the scrin are there. We need to get started on 'something' for some sort of space combat. We just finished the gravitic and fusion bay. I think we're good to build military spacecraft fighters.

They might of course rapidly become obsolete. But it's just one more area we need to keep pushing development.
Well, with the confirmation we're getting that the repulsorplate tech will be integrated, I have no objection.

In my own plans I still want to do Stealth Disruptors as a secondary project, but if we can get a good completion chance on SADN Phase 4 with only three dice, or alternatively if it's not available like some predict, then Transorbital Fighters is definitely on the menu for me now.
 
Yeah, thinking on it, I'll probably be looking for plans that have us develop our air/space stuff. Because if we can maintain aerial and orbital superiority (not that it seems Nod even wants to try and contest orbit but the Scrin are still out there and apparently have an outpost in-system) I feel like the next time Nod wants to pick a fight we can slap them down even harder for it.

In my own plans I still want to do Stealth Disruptors as a secondary project, but if we can get a good completion chance on SADN Phase 4 with only three dice,
I'm also okay with these, having an answer to Nod stealth tech, or SADN as way of stopping Nod from pulling any Nuke shenanigans or stealth bomber raids or something sounds good to me.
 
Right, since I have a bit of energy spare, lets talk Novahawk.
The thing with the Novahawk is that there is a lot of very careful balancing going on. Because there are needs, wants, and potentialities. On one hand, there is the potential for it to be an all singing all dancing next generation murderblob. On the other hand, there are economic, political, and practical concerns.

Shields take STUs. High End Laser systems take STUs. Repulsorplates take STUs. There are a few other things that can possibly take STUs. And depending on how GDI is feeling about its STU supplies, that is heavily going to influence how it spends on the Novahawk program. If it is notably choked on STUs, it will strip back on features to have something that can be deployed as a full firehawk replacement. If it is not, well, add features.
 
Agreed on transorbital fighters. If the Repulsorplates are baked in then it's good to go.

Should we develop particle beam weapons as well? Are those useful in space? A anti-space debris system or something?
 
Oh boy, we're designing a new fighter jet by committee, this will surely be delivered on time and under budget :V
 
So, given that, I am inclined to not bother with linking the Novahawk development to repulsorplates.
Because we'll want a whole lot of them.
That's not really the point.

They can make a design for it with Repulsorplates, it just won't go into production. A slightly worse but workable design would be made.

Then if we increase supplies of STUs the better one can get produced.

And the Novahawk isn't a plan goal or even listed as a priority. It can wait for a bit. We should still do it but it's not urgent. The sharks and wingmen are a higher priority than the Novahawk.
 
It's going to quite some time before we have the STUs for the full deployment of repulsorplate Novahawks so now might be one of those times to settle for good enough rather then perfect (though I do admit I would prefer the latter).
 
We don't have to choose though?

There isn't a rush on the Novahawk. It will probably be a huge multi stage deployment project.

That feels like a next plan thing to me.
 
Maybe not a rush but considering how the Firehawk has been doing whenever it's been mentioned I think that trying to get out at least one factory by the end of this plan is reasonable.
 
That's not really the point.

They can make a design for it with Repulsorplates, it just won't go into production. A slightly worse but workable design would be made.

Then if we increase supplies of STUs the better one can get produced.

And the Novahawk isn't a plan goal or even listed as a priority. It can wait for a bit. We should still do it but it's not urgent. The sharks and wingmen are a higher priority than the Novahawk.
And you missed my point. I wasn't saying "do it now". I was saying "don't consider the Repulsorplates factory when figuring out when to do it."
Which is to say, I think we should probably do North Boston 5 next, after we finish U-Alloys... because a) it is a Plan goal, and b) I want the capstone benefits, which include the next generation of AI stuff. Well, and c) it leans into GDI's strength of mass-production of high-but-not-bleeding-edge kit.

I don't think we should wait until next plan to do the Novahawk development, but that kinda depends on what else we need to finish up this plan.
 
Then wouldn't the answer be to put a numbers light summary in your post, then drop the draft plan into a spoiler after that summary so people can skip over the hard numbers if they choose?
That is certainly an option. Especially if you want to propose something specific. You can put it at the top, start a discussion about its merits, and hide the bookkeeping at the bottom for those who want to check it.

Railroads... well, we've been seeing diminishing returns, although that may change with new territory opening up, but I think they are not quite as much of a necessity as they are being pushed as. Largely because much of the new territory doesn't actually have much in it, so we already have rails between most of our stuff.
We shouldn't conflate diminishing returns from the fungible component with a reduction in the effectiveness of the narrative component.
Rail has almost always been significantly leaning towards the narrative bonuses over fungible indicators improvements. (Well, relatively more. Comparing a number with a qualitative narrative effect is barely a solvable problem.)
 
Hm.

That's definitely got me wanting to hold off on the Novahawk for a bit and try to rebuild our STU surplus. We've really been chewing into it fast with the alloy foundries.

On the other hand, if we don't want exceptionally STU-hungry ground vehicles (and we arguably shouldn't), we might actually want to do Next Generation Vehicles projects sooner, rather than later, at a time when STUs are relatively scarce and they will be designed with that in mind.
 
So, what I got out of the Novahawk talk is that we need to hammer IHG Refits. Also that STU Planned City after Karachi. ;)

Because we have a chance to have our very own aerial murderblob to sweep Nod from the skies until they pull something new out of their asses to contest our air control. Why settle for less when we can inflict mass heart attacks and strokes upon Nod pilots and command staff that their xenotech aircraft are now a distant second best? If each STU related system requires 1 STU, we're looking at 3+ STUs for a top end Novahawk. So let's get cracking on IHG refits. :D
 
That is certainly an option. Especially if you want to propose something specific. You can put it at the top, start a discussion about its merits, and hide the bookkeeping at the bottom for those who want to check it.
I, for one, am going to go right on putting my bookkeeping out in the open, because people's discussions about the bookkeeping often sparks exactly the kind of healthy, constructive discussion we actually want.

So, what I got out of the Novahawk talk is that we need to hammer IHG Refits. Also that STU Planned City after Karachi. ;)

Because we have a chance to have our very own aerial murderblob to sweep Nod from the skies until they pull something new out of their asses to contest our air control. Why settle for less when we can inflict mass heart attacks and strokes upon Nod pilots and command staff that their xenotech aircraft are now a distant second best? If each STU related system requires 1 STU, we're looking at 3+ STUs for a top end Novahawk. So let's get cracking on IHG refits. :D
Well, if there's a next serious war with Nod, and it comes before the Novahawk is available because we delayed it, then we have a problem.

On the other hand, if there's a serious war with Nod and the Novahawk isn't a significant improvement over the Firehawk, even given that Nod will be armed with aircraft that are considerably refined compared to the Barghest and its derivatives because they're not standing still either... Then we have a different problem.
 
I'm kinda wanting to reserve our STUs for Space Force stuff, like transorbital fighters or their successors, and building up a space navy to go after Europa... because that's something which will need to be as high-quality per unit of mass as we can possibly manage.
 
I'm kinda wanting to reserve our STUs for Space Force stuff, like transorbital fighters or their successors, and building up a space navy to go after Europa... because that's something which will need to be as high-quality per unit of mass as we can possibly manage.
Yes. On the other hand, their needs are likely to be low-quantity, up to a point, because they can only operate so many tons of equipment up there for the foreseeable future.

Also, with G-drives, it's entirely possible that there's a viable ship design which is basically an asteroid with gun turrets stuck on or something, as far as I know. I kind of hope so. Because the stuff we can reverse-engineer from Visitor tech isn't as good as what the Visitors themselves have, and realistically our advantage is the sheer mass that a fully mobilized planetary civilization can deploy as against the presumably limited firepower available at the Europan outpost.
 
I favor getting cracking on STU makers going so we can get ourselves an ASADMB. A lot of them. Which means I do favor getting a line of Repulsorplates going, as we know those are important to Nod's superior tib refinement techniques.
 
STU Projections (Link to previous)

Given the recent discussion on STUs, here is an update on the STU projections given the recent changes to the Alloy Foundries.

We currently have 6:
Current Production: 900/900 IHG, 1810/2900 HG (See math post immediately after the most recent Voting Threadmark)
This implies 10 STUs from IHG and 18 from HG. Therefore a total current production of 28.

Current Consumption:
17 Economy
-6 Tiberium (2 Harvesting Tendrils, 2 Sonic Weapons, 2 T-Glass)
-11 Other (7 Structural Alloys (2 per phase from Phase 1-3, 1 from Phase 4 thanks to the NAT 100), 2 Hovercraft, 2 Gravitic Shipyard Bay)
5 Military
-4 Aircraft (2 Tactical Lasers, 2 Plasma Munitions)
-1 Ground Vehicles (1 Mastodons [Shimmer Shields, Point Defense Lasers], 0 Havocs [Shimmer Shields])
Therefore a total current consumption of 22.

Therefore we have a current net production of 6.

We are required to complete the IHG refits and increase income by 550 RpT. Of that 550 increase we have 10 turns until the end of the Plan with 15 RpT per turn from economic growth, assuming that stays constant. This means we must increase income by 550 - 10 * 15 = 400 RpT. Of that 400 RpT we are unlikely to see any Lunar/Space mining income due to the Space Population requirements of the plan taking up all of the Orbital dice. Therefore all 400 RpT must come from Tiberium.

Therefore we should have 2710 + 400 = 3110 RpT coming from Tiberium.

As we are required to complete the IHG refits, that will produce STUs at a rate 90 RpT/STU. That means we will be producing a total of 3110 / 90 = 35.56 STUs

Given we are currently consuming 22 STUs and do not have required projects that consume them, we have 13 STUs to play with.

The currently available options for STU consumers are:
-U-Series Alloy Foundries: 2 STUs for Phase 5-6
-Microfusion Cell Laboratories: 2 STUs
-Second Generation Repulsor Plate Factories: 4 STUs
-Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment: 2 STUs for Phase 2
-Infernium Laser Refits: 1 STUs
-For a total of 11 potential STU consumption

This leaves us with 2 extra STUs if we complete all of those projects, and don't exceed our Tiberium mining.

We also have the following military projects that may consume STUs once developed:
-NovaHawk Development (High)
-Transorbital Fighter Development (Very High)
-Next Generation Armored Support Vehicles (Moderate)
-Next Generation Armored Fighting Vehicles (High/Moderate)
-Governor-A Development (Low)
-Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Development (Low)

While those projects may consume variable amounts of STUs, we won't know until we unlock them how many. They don't need to consume a whole lot for us not to be able to finish all of them given our current and projected STU surpluses. The only real solutions are mine more tiberium, trade for STUs, or limit the quantity or quality of our equipment.

For the first, that will take time. The only way I see it happening quickly is if we unlock Bore Holes, we unlock additional Border Offensives via Secure Yellow Zones, or if Karachi unlocks less Logistically expensive normal Glacier Mines. Normal Glacier Mines are very Logistics expensive and while we will get a significant infusion of Capital Goods over the course of this Plan for Vein Mines (especially from North Boston), a lot of those are going to be funneled into various needed projects (AEVAs, Service projects, Mil factories, PMM, etc).

The second I dislike, because we would be funding NOD, and by mining the STUs ourselves we effectively make 170 RpT and 5 PS.

The third depends. I'm fine with delaying Zrbite Sonic Weapons Deployment Phase 2. However, there are arguments for everything else currently available. One thing I haven't seen discussed yet are Microfusion Cells, which sound like they will be very advantageous for the Transorbital Fighters (light and energy dense are staples of space flight).
 
On the other hand, if we don't want exceptionally STU-hungry ground vehicles (and we arguably shouldn't), we might actually want to do Next Generation Vehicles projects sooner, rather than later, at a time when STUs are relatively scarce and they will be designed with that in mind.
I don't really see it mattering much either way. We were just told that even if the design needs tons of STUs, if they aren't actually available then a less high tech design would go into production.

This seems fine to me.

We designed this hover super laser tank. But with limited STUs we'll go with tracks and a rail gun with all the bells and whistles.

And if we get more STUs we can start getting the higher tier stuff.
 
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