- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think...yeah, I'd prefer reforestation over tarberries. Until and unless we have a really bad Energy crunch in that time, and I don't think we will unless we do in fact go full meme-plan Boston.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Location
- USA
I'm fine with it.
It's a plan goal so we need to do it regardless.
Plus we just lost a big chunk of budget and might lose more by giving the rest of the inops commitment.
Reforestation is cheap and can give us flexibility for other projects while we do stuff to build the budget back up.
Edit: We are going to have over 100 ps soon. Any ideas on what to use it on? I'd do CRP myself but I understand that's very unpopular.
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BoSPaladin
The Paladin
So long as it includes one or two dice on basic food projects and/or dairy as well I'm all for it.
I don't want it to be literally *all* dice on reforestation. But I'm fine with most going in that direction.
I think investing in tiberium is sound. Either the enhanced spikes to see if we *can* do a rollout that increases spikes production while keeping tib contained, or, we learn more about how to control tib, making it grow faster and slower, and broadly, understanding the inhibitor/tib growth tech.
Or we do some research into forgotten experiments, so that we're throwing everything at tiberium to see what sticks. not only abatement, but also adaptation, while keeping evacuation as a backup plan.
Because, yeah we picked a focus on abatement. But, that doesn't mean that other paths can't help buy us time for that.
For example, despite our best protection of Tiberium suits and Zone suits, I'm sure that some of our harvester pilots and so on are still unfortunately being exposed to tiberium. Having more treatment options, whether that's the tiberium infusions, or being able to cause mutation rather than death, just a variety of different tools for handling it. Beyond chopping off affected limbs and handing out cyber arms and legs.
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
The latter doesn't actually happen. It is buried in a long list of other dice allocations.
People have explicitly stated that they don't always read those. Which is not surprising, as a complete plan contains a lot of extraneous information. Something in the rest of that extra information could also trigger a long debate that might take the 'oxygen' away from discussing whether 9 dice on Alloy Foundries is a favourable approach.
Whereas "alloy foundries should be a top priority" is a simple discussion prompt that can be easily read and responded to.
Shadows
Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods
- Location
- USS Civilian, DDG-214
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Could I get you to expand more on this?
- Location
- MSC
Personally?
Either Alloys 6, Repulsorplates, and after that everything in Boston (somewhat risky).
Or Alloys 5, Repulsorplates, complete Boston, if we have time Alloys 6 (safe option for Plan goals).
PS will be at 114 once Stations complete.
Tib Spikes and Forgotten experiments (can slow walk both), E-CRP on top. That's the easiest way I see. And we can start on them right away.
Either Alloys 6, Repulsorplates, and after that everything in Boston (somewhat risky).
Or Alloys 5, Repulsorplates, complete Boston, if we have time Alloys 6 (safe option for Plan goals).
PS will be at 114 once Stations complete.
Tib Spikes and Forgotten experiments (can slow walk both), E-CRP on top. That's the easiest way I see. And we can start on them right away.
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- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Probably not coherently, but I'll try. -_-
Consider this excellent post by Dmol8:
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
Alright new preliminary plan for next quarter: [ ] Plan Logistical Orbit v3.0: -[ ] Infrastructure (5/5 Dice +27 bonus) 95 Resources: --[ ] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 7) 93/260? 20 RpD, 3 Dice = 60 R 95% ADC 24 --[ ] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 159/225 25 RpD, 1 Die = 25 R 77%...
forums.sufficientvelocity.com
That is 27 pieces of information that the reader has to consider.
Below that is 386 words, some of which is explaining the reasoning behind the selected projects.
This is not light reading. No full plan is.
Is there anything wild or radical in there? No really. How long does it take you to check?
It has Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes in it. This is controversial. Nobody commented on it at all.
(All I noticed when I read through it was the Lab Meat, the Recon Drones and the Munition Factory. I missed the Tib section entirely.)
Now, if Dmol had just suggested 2 dice on Enhanced Harvest Tiberium Spikes? There would have been responses and discussion.
Does it seem far fetched that people don't always engage with plan posts?
No.I've given up reading anything related to planningOn that note uuuh, hospital bay good. We should do it.
People have time and energy constraints.
A single question or suggestion can be responded to quickly. A long plan post gets skimmed or overlooked.
Due to the lack of immediate outputs from reforestation prep I'd rather progress remained steady while at least two other projects were garnished with the rest of the departmental dice.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[] Plan The Best Plan
-[] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 80R
--[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 1/260 3 dice 45R 42%
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 159/220 1 die 25R 82%
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1) 114/160 1 die 10R 97%
-[] Heavy Industry 5/5 +2 free dice 240R
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 5) 136/485 5 dice 200R 91%
--[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 263/310 2 dice 40R 100% (2/4 median Phase 2+3)
-[] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 85R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 2 dice 40R 17%
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 235/640 1 die 30R (1/5 median)
--[] Adaptive Clothing Development 0/60 1 die 15R 90%
-[] Agriculture 6/6 dice 50R
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 4 dice 20R (4/7 median)
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 83/230 2 dice 30R 74%
-[] Tiberium 7/7 +2 free dice 260R
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4) 0/200 3 dice 90R 95%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 9 East Australia) 59/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Forgotten Experimentation 0/260 2 dice 60R 10%
--[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/190 1 die 25R 47%
-[] Orbital 7/7 +2 free +1 AA +1 Erewhon dice 230R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 2 dice 40R (2/4.5 median)
--[] Hospital Bay 0/315 3 dice 60R 28%
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 229/520 3 dice + 1 AA +1 Erewhon die 100R 89%
--[] Life Support Processor Development (Tech) 0/80 1 die 30R 75%
-[] Services 4/4 dice 85R
--[] Unknown Autodoc Project 2 dice 40R?
--[] Cosmetic Biosculpting 0/350 1 die 30R (1/4 median)
--[] University Program Updates 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
-[] Military 7/7 dice 130R
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 56/230 2 dice 40R 54%
--[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/170 2 dice 30R 58%
--[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 0/240 2 dice 40R 7%
--[] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 0/280 1 die 20R (1/3.5 median)
-[] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice 55R
--[] Administrative Assistance 2 dice, +1 AA die on GDSS Shala
--[] Transfer Funding to InOps 1 die -60RpT Auto
--[] Sell Consumer Goods: +5 Resources per Turn, -10 Consumer Goods
-[] Total: 1215R/1225R (1165 RpT + 60R reserve)
Here's a plan I've been tinkering with the last few days for my own fun and to be pointlessly contrary. (But I repeat myself.) It's the best plan because I said so. That said, I'm not gonna bother actually putting this or any other plan out for the vote. Because doing that is a PITA.
Rails: We're doing deeeep Red Zone mining. Know what that needs? More Railways! Rails will help us not just with generic +Logistics, but since our Deep Glacier mines say we're directly connecting rail lines to glacier mines, this helps us fill in and reinforce those into a full rail network that'll be carrying quite a lot of construction cargo one way, and mined Tiberium the other way. Rails may also have an effect on Vein Mines, hopefully making a future phase cost less Capital Goods.
Myomers: Are we in a rush to finish Reykjavik? Are we going to slam down more Zone Armor factories as soon as it's finished? No? Then it doesn't need three dice, not when two might finish it more cheaply. Worst case, it doesn't quite finish next turn and we go into the election very clearly on the cusp of finishing it. And this frees up a die to bump Bergen forward. (Though hopefully next turn we'll have new L&CI projects to put that die on instead.)
Reforestation: I think that the Reclamation Party saddled us with a massive 20+ dice obligation for peanuts. But as much as I dislike the project's huge dice cost, I have to say, I do like the Reclamation Party. They've got moxie to look at our Tiberium-ridden hellscape of a planet and say they want to fix it. So, since we've already made some progress here, I'm also in favor of getting this project's 1st phase out the door in time for the election.
Forgotten Experimentation: We've got a lot of obligations from last turn in Tiberium. But research doesn't strain ZOCOM, and this projects pushes us forward along "Tiberium Adaptation" path that might offer us unique tools and solutions to the problem of Tiberium. Plus with the stations finishing soon we could easily go over 100 PS again, so it's best to spend a little PS ahead of time. And we could all use a little more Mad Science in our lives.
Orbital Stuff: In Q3 2062, we put 6 dice on Columbia, and 4 on Shala. 10 dice total. Unfortunately, this overworked the orbital construction crews on Columbia, causing multiple casualties as they "push[ed] themselves to the very limits of what can be considered safe." Meanwhile, Shala at 4 dice was fine. The turn after, we went even further with 13 dice in Orbital construction. But because it was split between four Bays, we did not push our workers past the breaking point.
Therefore, I'm limiting the amount of dice to 5 on each station, and doing my best to split those dice up: Columbia has 5 dice total, but 3 of them are on the Hospital Bay and 2 are on the main station itself. Shala has 5 dice, but one of them is an AA die and one is an Erewhon die. And I'm also doing the Hospital Bay to mitigate any overworking in the future. (And the Visitor tech b/c even weak Visitor tech is really powerful.)
Autodocs: The Autodoc Development read more like an engineering project to me than a long-term research project. I predict that we're going to get a full deployment project next turn, and it's probably going to be a big upgrade to our current healthcare system, especially for the military.
SADN doko: We've only had phases 1, 2, and 3 of SADN listed for a long time now, even last turn after we finished the first phase. I don't think we're going to get SADN Phase 4 next turn. We may need to wait a while, possibly for the current three phases to deploy fully, before we the 4th phase becomes available for construction.
Consequentially, I take all the free dice off of Military. If 10 dice is "conquer the world" levels of investment, 9 dice for three turns in a row would look pretty close. I'd like to back down to something saner. And instead of more SADN, I'm doing a few long-standing old projects: Orca drones for a better air force (and better air defense against strategic launches), Stealth Disruptors both to get those online to defend Karachi and because Nod uses stealth lots, and the Shark Class to make the Navy happy and keep our future naval battles on an even footing.
InOps: Can we afford another funding transfer to InOps? Of course we can, we're doing Deep Red Glacier Mines this turn. That alone is +60-90 RpT, plus our tax increases giving +15 (or more?) RpT, plus RZ Border Offensives giving +15-35 RpT. Even doing the funding transfer, we're very likely to have just as much R total to spend on next turn's plan, if not more.
In the long term, fears that we're going to be facing future projects even more mega-expensive than the U-Series Alloys aren't really a reason to hold off on funding InOps this turn. Unless those future projects show up next turn, and we want to go all-in on them immediately, by the time they actually do show up we'll have finished the expensive U-Series and continued to gain piles of income, more than we'll really know what to do with.
Also. I don't want us to lose more characters and more dice to assassinations. I don't want to be penny wise but pound foolish here. We can't purchase dice with RpT, and we only hire new characters once every 4 years. Meanwhile, I'm sure InOps can put the money to good use; InOps Quest likely keeps hitting their budget cap each turn without nearly running out of things to spend money on.
Conclusion: No one's going to read all of this blather besides Simon. Hi, Simon. *waves* I wanted to make this more contrary but then it wouldn't be viable.
-[] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 80R
--[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 1/260 3 dice 45R 42%
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 159/220 1 die 25R 82%
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1) 114/160 1 die 10R 97%
-[] Heavy Industry 5/5 +2 free dice 240R
--[] U Series Alloy Foundries (Phase 5) 136/485 5 dice 200R 91%
--[] Second Generation Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 2) 263/310 2 dice 40R 100% (2/4 median Phase 2+3)
-[] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 85R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 2 dice 40R 17%
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 235/640 1 die 30R (1/5 median)
--[] Adaptive Clothing Development 0/60 1 die 15R 90%
-[] Agriculture 6/6 dice 50R
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 4 dice 20R (4/7 median)
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 83/230 2 dice 30R 74%
-[] Tiberium 7/7 +2 free dice 260R
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4) 0/200 3 dice 90R 95%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 9 East Australia) 59/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Forgotten Experimentation 0/260 2 dice 60R 10%
--[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/190 1 die 25R 47%
-[] Orbital 7/7 +2 free +1 AA +1 Erewhon dice 230R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 2 dice 40R (2/4.5 median)
--[] Hospital Bay 0/315 3 dice 60R 28%
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 229/520 3 dice + 1 AA +1 Erewhon die 100R 89%
--[] Life Support Processor Development (Tech) 0/80 1 die 30R 75%
-[] Services 4/4 dice 85R
--[] Unknown Autodoc Project 2 dice 40R?
--[] Cosmetic Biosculpting 0/350 1 die 30R (1/4 median)
--[] University Program Updates 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
-[] Military 7/7 dice 130R
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 56/230 2 dice 40R 54%
--[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/170 2 dice 30R 58%
--[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 0/240 2 dice 40R 7%
--[] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 0/280 1 die 20R (1/3.5 median)
-[] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice 55R
--[] Administrative Assistance 2 dice, +1 AA die on GDSS Shala
--[] Transfer Funding to InOps 1 die -60RpT Auto
--[] Sell Consumer Goods: +5 Resources per Turn, -10 Consumer Goods
-[] Total: 1215R/1225R (1165 RpT + 60R reserve)
Here's a plan I've been tinkering with the last few days for my own fun and to be pointlessly contrary. (But I repeat myself.) It's the best plan because I said so. That said, I'm not gonna bother actually putting this or any other plan out for the vote. Because doing that is a PITA.
Rails: We're doing deeeep Red Zone mining. Know what that needs? More Railways! Rails will help us not just with generic +Logistics, but since our Deep Glacier mines say we're directly connecting rail lines to glacier mines, this helps us fill in and reinforce those into a full rail network that'll be carrying quite a lot of construction cargo one way, and mined Tiberium the other way. Rails may also have an effect on Vein Mines, hopefully making a future phase cost less Capital Goods.
Myomers: Are we in a rush to finish Reykjavik? Are we going to slam down more Zone Armor factories as soon as it's finished? No? Then it doesn't need three dice, not when two might finish it more cheaply. Worst case, it doesn't quite finish next turn and we go into the election very clearly on the cusp of finishing it. And this frees up a die to bump Bergen forward. (Though hopefully next turn we'll have new L&CI projects to put that die on instead.)
Reforestation: I think that the Reclamation Party saddled us with a massive 20+ dice obligation for peanuts. But as much as I dislike the project's huge dice cost, I have to say, I do like the Reclamation Party. They've got moxie to look at our Tiberium-ridden hellscape of a planet and say they want to fix it. So, since we've already made some progress here, I'm also in favor of getting this project's 1st phase out the door in time for the election.
Forgotten Experimentation: We've got a lot of obligations from last turn in Tiberium. But research doesn't strain ZOCOM, and this projects pushes us forward along "Tiberium Adaptation" path that might offer us unique tools and solutions to the problem of Tiberium. Plus with the stations finishing soon we could easily go over 100 PS again, so it's best to spend a little PS ahead of time. And we could all use a little more Mad Science in our lives.
Orbital Stuff: In Q3 2062, we put 6 dice on Columbia, and 4 on Shala. 10 dice total. Unfortunately, this overworked the orbital construction crews on Columbia, causing multiple casualties as they "push[ed] themselves to the very limits of what can be considered safe." Meanwhile, Shala at 4 dice was fine. The turn after, we went even further with 13 dice in Orbital construction. But because it was split between four Bays, we did not push our workers past the breaking point.
Therefore, I'm limiting the amount of dice to 5 on each station, and doing my best to split those dice up: Columbia has 5 dice total, but 3 of them are on the Hospital Bay and 2 are on the main station itself. Shala has 5 dice, but one of them is an AA die and one is an Erewhon die. And I'm also doing the Hospital Bay to mitigate any overworking in the future. (And the Visitor tech b/c even weak Visitor tech is really powerful.)
Autodocs: The Autodoc Development read more like an engineering project to me than a long-term research project. I predict that we're going to get a full deployment project next turn, and it's probably going to be a big upgrade to our current healthcare system, especially for the military.
SADN doko: We've only had phases 1, 2, and 3 of SADN listed for a long time now, even last turn after we finished the first phase. I don't think we're going to get SADN Phase 4 next turn. We may need to wait a while, possibly for the current three phases to deploy fully, before we the 4th phase becomes available for construction.
Consequentially, I take all the free dice off of Military. If 10 dice is "conquer the world" levels of investment, 9 dice for three turns in a row would look pretty close. I'd like to back down to something saner. And instead of more SADN, I'm doing a few long-standing old projects: Orca drones for a better air force (and better air defense against strategic launches), Stealth Disruptors both to get those online to defend Karachi and because Nod uses stealth lots, and the Shark Class to make the Navy happy and keep our future naval battles on an even footing.
InOps: Can we afford another funding transfer to InOps? Of course we can, we're doing Deep Red Glacier Mines this turn. That alone is +60-90 RpT, plus our tax increases giving +15 (or more?) RpT, plus RZ Border Offensives giving +15-35 RpT. Even doing the funding transfer, we're very likely to have just as much R total to spend on next turn's plan, if not more.
In the long term, fears that we're going to be facing future projects even more mega-expensive than the U-Series Alloys aren't really a reason to hold off on funding InOps this turn. Unless those future projects show up next turn, and we want to go all-in on them immediately, by the time they actually do show up we'll have finished the expensive U-Series and continued to gain piles of income, more than we'll really know what to do with.
Also. I don't want us to lose more characters and more dice to assassinations. I don't want to be penny wise but pound foolish here. We can't purchase dice with RpT, and we only hire new characters once every 4 years. Meanwhile, I'm sure InOps can put the money to good use; InOps Quest likely keeps hitting their budget cap each turn without nearly running out of things to spend money on.
Conclusion: No one's going to read all of this blather besides Simon. Hi, Simon. *waves* I wanted to make this more contrary but then it wouldn't be viable.
BoSPaladin
The Paladin
Broadly acceptable. I'd ask for/suggest a couple of modifications.
We completed a phase of rail last turn, so removing those dice and putting them on fortress towns and or giving shuttles an extra dice to help towards further phases might be nice.
Heavy industry, I'm happy with that.
Light also seems good.
Agri I said I'd support a bunch of dice on forestation so long as 1 or 2 went towards standard food projects, this completes that nicely.
tib, all kinds of abatement options, the blue inhibs, the red zone border offensives is guaranteed, A phase of glacier mining is almost guaranteed. there's a chance of forgotten experiments completing, but even without chance of completion tib adaptation science is good. Lastly, one dice on joint abatement to keep that rolling is very good.
Orbital. looks good. I can respect hospitals even if my own personal dreams lie closer towards the spaceport bay. Overall, pretty good.
If I could have anything I'd like a dice or two on some moon mines, But I can accept the stations/population goal taking most of our focus. Though, I do feel I should mention there may not be a single 'correct path' to plan goal completion. But I shrug.
Services is all fine and very normal. I'd maybe not start cosmetic stuff just yet and focus on finishing the hospitals first, but otherwise no complaints.
My one request for military would be to take one dice off orca and put it on space fighter development. But otherwise, all very reasonable.
bureacracy, it has selling con goods to nod. I don't know if further funding for InOps will be available this turn since we've been pumping a bunch into them, but assuming it is I have no objections to kicking money their way. And two dice here for an AA is completely understandable.
Not 'perfect' to me, but respectable. And if you do post it I do feel it at least deserves an approval vote from me. Even if I'm going to make my own plan.
Dmol8
The Undead Unhinged Lunatic of the Web
- Location
- Belgrade,Serbia
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I read all of that @Derpmind and while I don't agree with all of it, it is a plan I would vote for if mine turns out to be low in votes again.
- On the topic of Fortress Towns:
I get this was really early in the quest but:
we already did a defensive line in the Blue Zones back in the first half of 2053. If we finish Fortress Town and Green Zone Intensifications we get a defensive line in the (ex-)Green Zones. That is not an optional project, it just one of a lower priority right now.
- I'm talking about building more granaries so we can build more CRP. We will have riots if we don't have enough granaries and build CRP to replace them. No building CRP without first building granaries because of a NAT 1 on of all things Freeze Dried Food Plants:
We literally can't build CRP because basically NOD's Shadow Teams and Commandos needed training wheels so they busted out their 90s playbook of sowing political strife trough acts of militant trolling.
- We have SADN in the Military and Red Zone Border Offensives and Coordinations in Tiberium right now. Also we should start deploying meat next turn as that will get people's spirits soaring right before the election, if we do a Phase of Reforestation Prep we do if we don't we don't, but meat need to be back on the menu.
- On the topic of Fortress Towns:
I get this was really early in the quest but:
we already did a defensive line in the Blue Zones back in the first half of 2053. If we finish Fortress Town and Green Zone Intensifications we get a defensive line in the (ex-)Green Zones. That is not an optional project, it just one of a lower priority right now.
- I'm talking about building more granaries so we can build more CRP. We will have riots if we don't have enough granaries and build CRP to replace them. No building CRP without first building granaries because of a NAT 1 on of all things Freeze Dried Food Plants:
We literally can't build CRP because basically NOD's Shadow Teams and Commandos needed training wheels so they busted out their 90s playbook of sowing political strife trough acts of militant trolling.
- We have SADN in the Military and Red Zone Border Offensives and Coordinations in Tiberium right now. Also we should start deploying meat next turn as that will get people's spirits soaring right before the election, if we do a Phase of Reforestation Prep we do if we don't we don't, but meat need to be back on the menu.
The only part of that plan I kinda disagree with and might not vote for the plan over is the InOps infusion. And that might not be enough of a drawback to not vote for it.
Then wouldn't the answer be to put a numbers light summary in your post, then drop the draft plan into a spoiler after that summary so people can skip over the hard numbers if they choose?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Okay, so most people questioned so far are okay with the reforestation project taking a lot of our attention, but Khop raises an interesting point, and as Grimely says:
After a week of discussion like this, you will have a list. For example, for Heavy Industry, you might distill the discussion down into something like:
"Alloy foundries should be a top priority"
"I wish we could do Aberdeen."
"Repulsorplates are cool."
"First-generation fusion plants start failing in 2066 and we need to be ready."
Then you have to put it all together and answer some specific object-level questions and make the plan as a whole work. How many Free dice does this get? What prioritization do you do based on this list?
Do you put one die on each of those four projects, except two on the foundries? That's technically fulfilling all four statements, but that's a plan that justifiably won't thrive.
Do you bust out the Free dice? How do you allocate them? Some? All? Nine dice on alloys? Eleven? Five on alloys (enough to complete the current phase) and two on something else? Do you even think about Aberdeen or the repulsorplates or the power plants? Each of these reflects the cloud of opinions and attitudes you've already heard, but in different ways, and people may have very different ideas. And then there's the question of budget allocation, something that isn't too hard for us these past couple of turns but that's been very hotly contested in the past.
Multiply the scale of all this debate by, oh, fivefold or tenfold, and you get a sense for the scope of what I'm talking about.
...
So yes, just expressing very straightforward opinions about "I think this project is important" is much easier than parsing a whole plan. On the other hand, that's true specifically because turning the dozens of such opinions that can exist into a coherent plan that prioritizes and allocates resources isn't easy. It isn't something that can be done well in a very short amount of time, unless a lot of prep work has gone into it behind the scenes.
Personally, I think it best if work on the draft proceeds in parallel with the ongoing conversation about all other things, rather than trying to only have that conversation and hold off on even engaging with the question of "so what should the plan look like" until the last minute.
Now, personally my take on this is that a lot depends on how much of reforestation involves planting trees and how much involves marshalling supplies and preparing sites. This is a question that I'm going to try to remain mindful of, looking forward to the Results post where we'll see a description of just what is involved in starting Phase 1 and may be able to work out what will be involved in the ongoing project.
Here's the problem. Speaking as one of the people who come are already trying to collate all the bits and pieces of preferences and put them together into a coherent plan...
After a week of discussion like this, you will have a list. For example, for Heavy Industry, you might distill the discussion down into something like:
"Alloy foundries should be a top priority"
"I wish we could do Aberdeen."
"Repulsorplates are cool."
"First-generation fusion plants start failing in 2066 and we need to be ready."
Then you have to put it all together and answer some specific object-level questions and make the plan as a whole work. How many Free dice does this get? What prioritization do you do based on this list?
Do you put one die on each of those four projects, except two on the foundries? That's technically fulfilling all four statements, but that's a plan that justifiably won't thrive.
Do you bust out the Free dice? How do you allocate them? Some? All? Nine dice on alloys? Eleven? Five on alloys (enough to complete the current phase) and two on something else? Do you even think about Aberdeen or the repulsorplates or the power plants? Each of these reflects the cloud of opinions and attitudes you've already heard, but in different ways, and people may have very different ideas. And then there's the question of budget allocation, something that isn't too hard for us these past couple of turns but that's been very hotly contested in the past.
Multiply the scale of all this debate by, oh, fivefold or tenfold, and you get a sense for the scope of what I'm talking about.
...
So yes, just expressing very straightforward opinions about "I think this project is important" is much easier than parsing a whole plan. On the other hand, that's true specifically because turning the dozens of such opinions that can exist into a coherent plan that prioritizes and allocates resources isn't easy. It isn't something that can be done well in a very short amount of time, unless a lot of prep work has gone into it behind the scenes.
Personally, I think it best if work on the draft proceeds in parallel with the ongoing conversation about all other things, rather than trying to only have that conversation and hold off on even engaging with the question of "so what should the plan look like" until the last minute.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
We should invest more in Space Force because it would be cool 🚀
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Your entire post is italics from this part down.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yeah, I do all my BBCode by hand and sometimes that happens. I only didn't notice because I was replying to you, as seen below:
For fear of triggering the spaghetti rules, I'm going to respond to Derpmind in a somewhat unusual way. Anyone who finds the format iffy, this is why I'm doing it, so please don't take me to task over it. I have my reasons.
[] Plan The Best Plan
-[] Infrastructure 5/5 dice 80R
--[] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 6) 1/260 3 dice 45R 42%
--[] Suborbital Shuttle Service (Phase 2) 159/220 1 die 25R 82%
--[] Postwar Housing Refits (Phase 1) 114/160 1 die 10R 97%
Rails: We're doing deeeep Red Zone mining. Know what that needs? More Railways! Rails will help us not just with generic +Logistics, but since our Deep Glacier mines say we're directly connecting rail lines to glacier mines, this helps us fill in and reinforce those into a full rail network that'll be carrying quite a lot of construction cargo one way, and mined Tiberium the other way. Rails may also have an effect on Vein Mines, hopefully making a future phase cost less Capital Goods.
SJ:
Hm. Interesting. It should be noted that neither the shuttles nor the housing refits are truly urgent, so it's entirely reasonable that this is a good time to invest heavily in a project we know we'll need later on.
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-[] Light and Chemical Industry 4/4 dice 85R
--[] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 5) 883/1100 2 dice 40R 17%
--[] Bergen Superconductor Foundry (Phase 4) 235/640 1 die 30R (1/5 median)
--[] Adaptive Clothing Development 0/60 1 die 15R 90%
Myomers: Are we in a rush to finish Reykjavik? Are we going to slam down more Zone Armor factories as soon as it's finished? No? Then it doesn't need three dice, not when two might finish it more cheaply. Worst case, it doesn't quite finish next turn and we go into the election very clearly on the cusp of finishing it. And this frees up a die to bump Bergen forward. (Though hopefully next turn we'll have new L&CI projects to put that die on instead.)
SJ:
Hm... this is a bit more towards "ruthless optimization" than I'd had the nerve for. Given that RpT isn't hard to come by, this is arguably strictly superior if there's absolutely no rush. On the other hand, there's one possibility I think has been left out of the analysis here: I, for one, won't be surprised if the Reykjavik capstone unlocks something else, so getting it a quarter sooner might entail getting another specifically desirable project sooner too. Even if we're not planning to use the discounts to mech and power armor production immediately, myomers have real civilian industrial uses, and completing Phase 5 is going to roughly double the available myomer supply to GDI's industrial base. That sounds like the kind of thing that could unlock important stuff.
So I dunno.
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-[] Agriculture 6/6 dice 50R
--[] Reforestation Campaign Preparations (Phase 1) 252/815 4 dice 20R (4/7 median)
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 83/230 2 dice 30R 74%
Reforestation: I think that the Reclamation Party saddled us with a massive 20+ dice obligation for peanuts. But as much as I dislike the project's huge dice cost, I have to say, I do like the Reclamation Party. They've got moxie to look at our Tiberium-ridden hellscape of a planet and say they want to fix it. So, since we've already made some progress here, I'm also in favor of getting this project's 1st phase out the door in time for the election.
SJ:
Glad to hear you feel that way; it lines up with my own perceptions on the matter. And yeah, Reclamation saddled us with a megaproject, but in fairness to them, it's an incredibly cheap megaproject in terms of budget costs. And even without Dr. Bora giving us literally more Agriculture dice than we know what to do with, we'd have no real trouble fulfilling this project along with our other commitments. They're not asking us for anything we lack the easy capacity to give, and in some ways the reforestation project makes keeping our "activate all dice" promise to Litvinov easier because it's the first 5 R/die project I've seen in a long time.
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-[] Tiberium 7/7 +2 free dice 260R
--[] Red Zone Border Offensives (Stage 5) 158/210 1 die 25R 100%
--[] Deep Red Zone Tiberium Glacier Mining (Stage 4) 0/200 3 dice 90R 95%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 4 Southeast Arabia) 52/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Tiberium Inhibitor Deployment (Blue Zone 9 East Australia) 59/85 1 die 30R 100%
--[] Forgotten Experimentation 0/260 2 dice 60R 10%
--[] Coordinated Abatement Programs (Phase 1) 82/190 1 die 25R 47%
Forgotten Experimentation: We've got a lot of obligations from last turn in Tiberium. But research doesn't strain ZOCOM, and this projects pushes us forward along "Tiberium Adaptation" path that might offer us unique tools and solutions to the problem of Tiberium. Plus with the stations finishing soon we could easily go over 100 PS again, so it's best to spend a little PS ahead of time. And we could all use a little more Mad Science in our lives.
SJ:
Oh, wow this splits Tiberium across a lot of projects- that's not me disagreeing with you, that's just a sort of abstract sticker shock. It's reasonable, and you're not wrong about the timing for the research project.
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-[] Orbital 7/7 +2 free +1 AA +1 Erewhon dice 230R
--[] GDSS Columbia (Phase 5) 643/1030 2 dice 40R (2/4.5 median)
--[] Hospital Bay 0/315 3 dice 60R 28%
--[] GDSS Shala (Phase 4) 229/520 3 dice + 1 AA +1 Erewhon die 100R 89%
--[] Life Support Processor Development (Tech) 0/80 1 die 30R 75%
Orbital Stuff: In Q3 2062, we put 6 dice on Columbia, and 4 on Shala. 10 dice total. Unfortunately, this overworked the orbital construction crews on Columbia, causing multiple casualties as they "push[ed] themselves to the very limits of what can be considered safe." Meanwhile, Shala at 4 dice was fine. The turn after, we went even further with 13 dice in Orbital construction. But because it was split between four Bays, we did not push our workers past the breaking point.
Therefore, I'm limiting the amount of dice to 5 on each station, and doing my best to split those dice up: Columbia has 5 dice total, but 3 of them are on the Hospital Bay and 2 are on the main station itself. Shala has 5 dice, but one of them is an AA die and one is an Erewhon die. And I'm also doing the Hospital Bay to mitigate any overworking in the future. (And the Visitor tech b/c even weak Visitor tech is really powerful.
SJ:
Hmmmm. It should be noted that you're using an out of date number for Shala progress; there were some handling issues there. Shala Phase 4 is actually at something well over 450 points, as I recall, so this arrangement will handily catapult us through the end of Phase 4 and something like 300-400 points up into Shala Phase 5. Which I approve of wholeheartedly, because we really do need to get Shala wrapped up.
I suspect that allocating Erewhon doesn't count against our "you are shock-laboring a project too fast, bad things happen." But that remains to be seen.
I strongly agree with you about Life Support Processor Development, among other things because that is a tech that is extremely likely to lower Progress costs or raise population-per-project on future moon colonies and space stations. And we're definitely gonna need to build those.
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-[] Services 4/4 dice 85R
--[] Unknown Autodoc Project 2 dice 40R?
--[] Cosmetic Biosculpting 0/350 1 die 30R (1/4 median)
--[] University Program Updates 137/250 1 die 15R 38%
SJ:
This speaks for itself. You have a good point about the autodoc project. My own practice in draft plans is usually to list other projects I know exist and swap out when I have the parameters for the new project, but that's me. For instance, my gut instinct is that autodoc deployment will turn out to be 25 R/die rather than 20. But that's just my opinion and instinct.
If even you are comfortable dialing back Cosmetic Biosculpting to one die, I may well do much the same myself, in which case my Services section may wind up looking like yours.
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-[] Military 7/7 dice 130R
--[] Orca Wingmen Drone Deployment (Phase 2) 56/230 2 dice 40R 54%
--[] Stealth Disruptor Deployment 0/170 2 dice 30R 58%
--[] Shark Class Frigate Shipyards (Seattle) 0/240 2 dice 40R 7%
--[] Modular Rapid Assembly Prototype Factory 0/280 1 die 20R (1/3.5 median)
SADN doko: We've only had phases 1, 2, and 3 of SADN listed for a long time now, even last turn after we finished the first phase. I don't think we're going to get SADN Phase 4 next turn. We may need to wait a while, possibly for the current three phases to deploy fully, before we the 4th phase becomes available for construction.
Consequentially, I take all the free dice off of Military. If 10 dice is "conquer the world" levels of investment, 9 dice for three turns in a row would look pretty close. I'd like to back down to something saner. And instead of more SADN, I'm doing a few long-standing old projects: Orca drones for a better air force (and better air defense against strategic launches), Stealth Disruptors both to get those online to defend Karachi and because Nod uses stealth lots, and the Shark Class to make the Navy happy and keep our future naval battles on an even footing.
SJ:
I must respectfully disagree with your prediction that SADN Phase 4 will not be available next turn as a project. Ithillid has a long history of not adding extra layers of projects when he doesn't need to, and in this case he didn't need to. As such, I am going to choose to continue to budget for SADN. If I turn out to be wrong, my Military lineup will evolve to look loosely like yours, with two caveats.
1) I'm coming around to the idea that we might want to do USGV development first and MRAP factory construction next, so as to allow the last phase of alloy discounts to apply. This is a relatively minor matter, but I've yet to hear anyone specifically say they want to do MRAP factory first in the past week or so that I can recall.
2) Per an earlier post of mine, I have a "short list" of about five projects costing roughly 200-300 points each that I want to wrap up in the near future, over and above SADN Phase 3 and/or 4. You pick three of those projects to work on simultaneously, using the dice freed up by having no SADN commitment. I might pick a different three projects, but I'm not sure which; I'd have to think about it. It's really not worth bickering over in my opinion, and it's likely that there would be overlap.
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-[] Bureaucracy 4/4 dice 55R
--[] Administrative Assistance 2 dice, +1 AA die on GDSS Shala
--[] Transfer Funding to InOps 1 die -60RpT Auto
--[] Sell Consumer Goods: +5 Resources per Turn, -10 Consumer Goods
-[] Total: 1215R/1225R (1165 RpT + 60R reserve)
InOps: Can we afford another funding transfer to InOps? Of course we can, we're doing Deep Red Glacier Mines this turn. That alone is +60-90 RpT, plus our tax increases giving +15 (or more?) RpT, plus RZ Border Offensives giving +15-35 RpT. Even doing the funding transfer, we're very likely to have just as much R total to spend on next turn's plan, if not more.
In the long term, fears that we're going to be facing future projects even more mega-expensive than the U-Series Alloys aren't really a reason to hold off on funding InOps this turn. Unless those future projects show up next turn, and we want to go all-in on them immediately, by the time they actually do show up we'll have finished the expensive U-Series and continued to gain piles of income, more than we'll really know what to do with.
Also. I don't want us to lose more characters and more dice to assassinations. I don't want to be penny wise but pound foolish here. We can't purchase dice with RpT, and we only hire new characters once every 4 years. Meanwhile, I'm sure InOps can put the money to good use; InOps Quest likely keeps hitting their budget cap each turn without nearly running out of things to spend money on.
SJ:
I remain a bit hesitant to transfer the funds on the same turn the glacier mines hit 'go,' and I think the 60 RpT we already gave them last turn (and the 60 RpT we gave them in 2062Q4 as I recall) should be enough for them to do a lot in a short time, to the point where they may actually need a little time to figure out how to spend the next 60 RpT effectively.
I suppose I could just be a stick-in-the-mud, but we haven't exactly left InOps hungry here. I dunno. Then again, it's not like giving up the prospect of having an AA die for a Services project is that painful, and we do strictly have the money without needing to really hurt ourselves.
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Conclusion: No one's going to read all of this blather besides Simon. Hi, Simon. *waves* I wanted to make this more contrary but then it wouldn't be viable.
SJ:
[waves]
Welcome to my world; if I want to do something genuinely outlandish it usually winds up in a variant plan, not my serious one.
That's actually a pretty good point, I say this unironically. My personal perception is to spend the next few turns clearing underbrush out of the way on the ground while finishing up the alloy foundries, then work on repulsorplate production because second generation repulsor plates have potential as a thrust-enhancing "afterburner" for fusion rockets, THEN work on space combatants.
And whether Transorbital Fighter uses a fusion rocket or not, it's likely to benefit heavily from the repulsorplates, what with that providing a lot of assistance on the 'trans' part between 'orbital' and 'not orbital.' But getting up to where we have those factories will take a few turns. I dunno. I'm a bit torn on whether to wait for them to become available.
What do people think?
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- Location
- USA
I personally feel that both USGV and the space fighters would heavily benefit from Repulsorplates.
My question is, is it enough that we've done the development for the Repulsorplates? Or will the new designs not factor them in until we do the deployment project?
If the former then we're good. If the latter then I would like to wait on these designs until Repulsorplates are deployed.
- Location
- Earth
Personally, I'd guess that repulsor played will dictate whether the fighters can return to orbit after aggressive fighting in the atmosphere.
Just a gut feeling, but the knife fighting maneuverability that nod has been favoring in their last two fighter generations will make at least considering (if not directly competing) important. As such, weight and size will be big issues, and the fusion rocket option for getting back into orbit seems likely to actively hinder dog fighting.
Repulsor plates providing severe turning ability in a truck would be of immense help with an otherwise ungainly large orbital fighter.
Keep in mind that if we want hover whatever for our military vehicles that we'll have to pay an STU cost above and beyond what is paid by the hoverplate factory. That's just for logistics trucks (and unlocking better repulsorplates in other fields), not a "now all vehicles developed from here on out will have these at no additonal STU cost". (iirc, a total rollout of hover would be 2-3 orders of magnitude higher than the hover factory).
I'd really, reallly, really, really, really like to avoid using very precious and limited STUs on applications that are designed to serve as ablative armor, or serve in particularly dangerous roles, as opposed to ones that have a direct and immediate impact on human survivability. So, ground vehicle drones are the absolute last place where I'd want to use them.
- Location
- MSC
Not against Agri mechanisation, but Lab meat deployment might be a better option, if only for narrative reasons.
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- He/Him
Eh, I am not concerned much by all this "we should do X first for synergetic benefit Y". I just want Transorbital Fighter, ASAT 5, Nuke Caches, Unmanned Support Ground Vehicle Development and Next Generation Armored Fighting Vehicles, because space military and tanks are pretty swell and I like reading about em.
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- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I think it's likely to take a while to cook. IRL it's taking a long time to go from cultured cells in a lab to the technology to grow enough to stock supermarket shelves. GDI has better tech to work with but I expect us to have to wait a while for it to be ready for deployment.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The USGVs would be made better by it, but in a way that may be counterproductive to deploy. We expect to go through a lot of them, treating them as expendable, after all.
The space fighters, well, a frickin' space fighter is a perfect example of the kind of thing you really want to include cutting edge antigravity technology in.
That's a good question.