I am not your strawman. I don't think it's objectively more important or sacred.
I didn't say that's what you thought.

But that's what I would have to think, to think that putting ranching domes on the to-do list ahead of "get to about 75% completion on the Stored Food target" is a good idea.

I would have to think something like what I believe about the frigate yards- namely, that the frigates have such a powerful immediate impact, or short-term impact, that it is necessarily to prioritize them even over some of the things we specifically committed to doing.

Instead, I view them as "what we want to do next after this," or if not strictly after hitting the Stored Food target, at least after we've gotten close enough to the target that we can say with confidence "yes, this will be done" and people will believe us. Because...

I think the voters want food storage, and they want better food. Together, at the same time. This isn't a contradictory stance to take...
Because the legislature absolutely insisted on extracting a promise from us to fix the first problem, but made no special effort to extract a promise to fix the second.

Given that elected politicians are necessarily better plugged into the question of what their constituents actually want and believe than we are... That strongly suggests to me a responsibility to treat "more food storage" as higher priority than "higher food quality." Because "more food storage" was treated as the high-priority thing, was something where the legislature offered us no choice and demanded action from us by a set deadline, and made the idea of renegotiating that deadline infeasible, even when the situation had changed drastically.

I feel as is this shift to "we need to do Ranching Domes now" reflects a sudden surge of conviction among part of the quest voterbase that they have a clear idea of what the people want, to the point where the actions and stated priorities of the NPCs who in-character should know what the people want is being ignored or dismissed as the rest of the voters being somehow blindly fixated on "number go up" and "spreadsheets."

...

When we went to the legislature to renegotiate the Plan targets and said "we can't do Karachi because of the war and the naval situation," we got, well, we had to double the scale of the project to buy four more years of time. But the scale of the project was never the problem, the problem was always just getting boots and bulldozers on the ground to do it at all in the face of military opposition. It was a relatively painless concession for us to make.

When we went to the legislature to renegotiate the Stored Food plan targets, where there was at least as much justification for doing so as there was for Karachi... We got the response "you will have to far more than double the scope of the project to get even two more years out of us, let alone four."

Which is tantamount to the legislature just scowling at us and saying "no, no fucking way, we will compromise on a lot of things but we will NOT compromise on the importance of stockpiling a trillion cans of beans for a rainy day."

I think we need to consider very seriously why they are choosing to take such a stance, on the assumption that they are intelligent, knowledgeable people who are reacting more or less rationally to popular sentiment. Even if we think that the politicians, or for that matter the public, are irrational to want this... they clearly do.

It's only from our POV that it might look like we can only have one at the expense of the other, but the general public isn't looking at dice numbers or probability arrays. They've been looking at their dairy-less pantry, and at their bunker's too-small food storage, and they want both of these problems fixed.
I think some of us projecting onto GDI's public a good deal of anger and discontent about the lack of dairy products or chicken or what have you. Perhaps more than they actually feel. Perhaps an amount that reflects us, mostly our First World selves who are privileged to have easy access to those things, who have not had the experience of being survivors growing up in a world endangered and disrupted by tiberium and warfare. We would resent it greatly if those things were suddenly taken from us, the idea of doing without is shocking.

But in-character? They want those things back, but it's been nearly fifteen years if not considerably more since they were ever available in quantity. They don't feel the loss the same way we do. They experienced the loss as part of a massive war that was blatantly the fault of Kane and the Scrin, and they seem to have moved on to the point where they can take it philosophically.

Whereas the fear of it all happening again, that is very real and they're not over it in any way. I have a vivid memory of a GDIOnline post during Steel Vanguard that seemed to me to read something like "wow, I was expecting this war to be horrible and totally disrupt my life like the last one did, and I was kind of weirded out when it didn't do that very hard."

So I think the picture has to be understood in those terms- that paradoxical as it may seem to me, they want enough preserved food to feed all of GDI through a year of total agricultural collapse MORE than they want actual proper butter and to replace their existing bizarre margarine substitute created in a chemical plant from tiberium feedstock and squirted with synthesized artificial butter flavoring.

I think that we should be using the politicians as a barometer for the public's opinions, and the barometer has spoken very clearly about which of those is important enough to them to hold our feet to the fire about.

So it's not compulsory, it's an option, and if you're making use of it to save Ag dice, then please tell us what you want to spend those dice on.
...I thought I already did tell you.

Ranching Domes, which will more than offset the political costs of a single phase of CRP. Potentially other projects as well, since the dice savings from CRP will considerably more than offset the dice costs of doing the ranching domes.

Meanwhile, if you say "but we're already gonna do ranching domes without doing CRP," my response is "then this course of action will free up Free dice so we can do things like be confident of completing Enterprise and also still have time to make some progress on the station bay or the Leopard II yard before 2062Q1."

So doing it the same turn as CRP isn't good enough for 'calm the hell down parliament' purposes, we need to assuage them before we push that terrible, stinky button. Because this is a game, and the QM only updates the costs of things between turns. We honestly should have done the big storage as part of the current turn, but since CRP is so low on dice requirements, we can probably fit it in Q3 with only a single die. On the other hand, we don't actually need CRP, and we should try to avoid paying PS we don't actually have to pay this late in the plan.
I'm going to engage with that on two levels.

On one level, I don't think we can completely eliminate the PS cost of the CRP option with a reasonable amount of "but do this first" food (that is, 8-10-12 more Stored Food, the maximum we can get without extreme investment of many many Agriculture dice in granary-building, and enough that the CRP becomes overkill anyway). I think it more likely that all we'll accomplish is to lower the PS cost to -5 for the first phase and -5 more for the second phase. Because it's not like CRP is wanted, or is going to become wanted. I just think that we should do it anyway to make room for other actions.

On another level, the problem I see is that everyone is very clear that we are seriously down to the wire on our ability to hit the Stored Food target. Everyone's plans are involving Free dice, we're getting a bit desperate. I strongly suspect we're going to be in a position where if we follow the trajectory some here favor, we're going to be rolling like three "build granary" dice in Q4 and panic-mashing the ELFS button at the last minute... and my gut feeling is that somehow, it won't be enough. The massive transfers of food to existing stockpiles under ELFS will turn out to take six months to fulfill, or we'll roll unlucky on the granaries, or something. I'm trying to future-proof our position here a bit by making an admittedly unpopular but very pragmatic decision now, to clear the decks and grant us more flexibility for next time.

I suppose it would be tenable to just go ahead with the non-CRP parts of my plan this turn and put CRP off until Q3, then... but since I'm holding out some hope of us being able to do Chicago Phase 4 in Q3 or Q4, I'm not sure I want to commit to that. I definitely want to have both ELFS and CRP done before the Q4 turn start, though... and since ELFS could conceivably take two turns to do a single phase of, that's an issue.
 
I'm honestly in favor of pulling the trigger on ELFS in Q2. We're going to get freeze dried done in Q2 regardless of roll, so that'll free up... +6 food? Mech will add +12, enough to cover ELFS on its own (If it shifts to -12 for +8 Stored). Fertilizer will add another +4. So we'd be looking at a net +6-10 food gain before population changes eat food surplus? If we manage to pump out 2 phases of Strategic Food Stockpiles, that'd be -6 Food for +4 Stored Food, leaving us at +0-4 net food gain. And just +6 stored food short of the goal going into Q3, I believe. Barring shit rolls, naturally. So, ECRP Phase 1 and another round of Strategic stockpiles would clear Goals for Q4.

Though I wonder how ELFS would change based on freeze dried completing. Will it remain +8 Stored (and drop to -12 Food)? Or will the -Food stay near its current level and just increases the Stored Food (+10 Stored, -15 Food)?

I'm really hoping we'll get a better stockpile option soon that's not increasingly progress heavy for small amounts of +Stored Food.
 
I'm honestly in favor of pulling the trigger on ELFS in Q2. We're going to get freeze dried done in Q2 regardless of roll, so that'll free up... +6 food? Mech will add +12, enough to cover ELFS on its own (If it shifts to -12 for +8 Stored). Fertilizer will add another +4.
Agriculture Mechanization Phase 2 will not necessarily complete this turn. Personally, I can accept the risk of mechanization not completing this turn.

The fertilizers and freeze-drying alone give us +10 Food, so our total overall Food situation should stay okay even if we get no other Food from other sources and the refugees (as @doruma1920 , one of our resident math heroes, predicts) eat another -5 Food in the coming turn.

The situation may not be great. Someone, somewhere, may feel compelled to eat a fungus bar. But it'll be okay, especially given that we'll have even more food coming in during Q3.

If we want absolutely surefire Food increase beyond +10, we should take Blue Zone Aquaponics to get a surefire +16 from two Agriculture dice. This is a respectable course of action. I personally don't favor it because I want to get the mechanization done while we can afford to spend more than 10 R/die on Agriculture projects on a regular basis. But I can see the logic behind wanting to do that.

Though I wonder how ELFS would change based on freeze dried completing. Will it remain +8 Stored (and drop to -12 Food)? Or will the -Food stay near its current level and just increases the Stored Food (+10 Stored, -15 Food)?
Remember that ELFS didn't change when we built more stockpiles. I'm pretty sure its effects come from "just cram more food in existing facilities," and so the scale of the operation is limited by how many existing facilities we have that still have space inside. So I expect the effect to go to "-12 Food, +8 Stored Food," personally.

I'm really hoping we'll get a better stockpile option soon that's not increasingly progress heavy for small amounts of +Stored Food.
I'd love that but I doubt it'll happen fast enough for us to build current plans around. Hopefully, if we're hit with a second Stored Food target next plan (as many of us expect), we'll get some new options along those lines.
 
I'm really hoping we'll get a better stockpile option soon that's not increasingly progress heavy for small amounts of +Stored Food.

The funny thing is we got one of those, its called CRP and E-CRP. Combined those give +14 Food Reserve and +12 Food, its just it would cost 40 PS to complete all of the phases CRP and E-CRP. However, just the first Phase of E-CRP gives 5 Food Reserve in exchange for minimal dice and 5 PS. That 5 PS is manageable, though if we could not pay it that would be great. It is still technically possible to complete the plan goal without E-CRP or CRP, but we wouldn't have space for Ranching Domes or Vert-Farms.

Way I see it we've got three options for Food Reserve:
1) Get both phases of E-CRP. Both phases of E-CRP provide a combined 10 Food Reserve, that with ELFS more then completes the planned goal. The problem is the 15 PS cost, which is bearable, we currently have 54 PS and 10 is going to come in with the completion of Enterprise. That plus Ranching Domes and Sports would leave us with 64 PS going into Reallocation. Which isn't bad. The advantages of this is it opens up a lot of dice that would otherwise be committed to Stockpile Construction, and definitely allows us to take Ranching Domes and Vert-Farms, and maybe even a bit more with some free dice. The disadvantage is losing out on 15 PS and the narrative effects of CRP.
Total Dice cost:
Infra: 2/18 dice available
-[] E-CRP Phase 1-2: 0/160 2 dice median (+10 Reserve)
LCI: 1/15 dice available
-[] Fertilizer: 276/300 1 die (+4 Food)
Agri: 11/12 dice available
-[] ELFS: auto 1 AA/E die (+8 Reserve, -12 Food)
-[] Ranching Domes: 0/250 ~3 dice median (-4 Food)
-[] Vert-Farms: 65/240 ~2 dice median (+4 Food)
-[] Agri Mech: 26/250 ~3 dice (+12 Food)
-[] BZ Aquaponics Phase 4-5: 75/280 ~3 dice (+12 Food)
Food: 21 Current - 15 (Refugees 5/turn * 3 turns) + 4 (Fertilizer) - 12 (ELFS) - 4 (Ranches) + 4 (Vert Farms) + 12 (Agri Mech) + 12 BZ Aquaponics = 22 Food

2) Get one phase of E-CRP. One phase gives 5 Food Reserve, combined with ELFS means we need two more phases of strategic reserve construction (~4 dice), along with the Food to feed those reserves. This is the compromise position between options 1 and 3, it saves enough dice for Ranching Domes and maybe Vert-Farms, and costs 5 PS. Assuming we get both the Domes and Professional Sports that leaves us at 74 PS (including the plan goal Enterprise), a pretty good spot to be in going into Reallocation.
Total Dice cost:
Infra: 1/18 dice available
-[] E-CRP Phase 1: 0/80 1 die median (+5 Reserve)
LCI: 1/15 dice available
-[] Fertilizer: 276/300 1 die (+4 Food)
Agri: 18/12 dice available (6 Free dice needed)
-[] ELFS: auto 1 AA/E die (+8 Reserve, -12 Food)
-[] Ranching Domes: 0/250 ~3 dice median (-4 Food)
-[] Vert-Farms: 65/240 ~2 dice median (+4 Food)
-[] Agri Mech: 26/250 ~3 dice (+12 Food)
-[] BZ Aquaponics Phase 4-6: 75/420 ~5 dice (+18 Food)
-[] Stockpile Construction Phase 3-4: 85/375 ~4 dice (+4 Reserve, -6 Food)
Food: 21 Current - 15 (Refugees 5/turn * 3 turns) + 4 (Fertilizer) - 12 (ELFS) - 4 (Ranches) + 4 (Vert Farms) + 12 (Agri Mech) + 18 BZ Aquaponics - 6 (Stockpiles Construction) = 22 Food
-We could drop the last phase of Aquaponics and still have 16 Food surplus.

3) Do not invest in E-CRP. This is the state we were looking at before CRP development, and it basically requires us to not build Ranching domes or Vert-Farms. This means it has the same PS end state as option 2 (74 PS), since it will be extremely difficult to afford the dice cost of Ranching Domes along with the increased amount of Food going into the Food reserves. It also probably means dropping even lower with our Food Surplus as we simply lack the dice to keep it at its current level, Feed the Refugees, and fill the stockpiles without CRP.
LCI: 1/15 dice available
-[] Fertilizer: 276/300 1 die (+4 Food)
Agri: 18-20?/12 dice available (6-8? Free dice needed)
-[] ELFS: auto 1 AA/E die (+8 Reserve, -12 Food)
-[] Agri Mech: 26/250 ~3 dice (+12 Food)
-[] BZ Aquaponics Phase 4-6: 75/420 ~5 dice (+18 Food)
-[] Stockpile Construction Phase 3-6: 85/775-850? ~10-12? dice (+8 Reserve, -12 Food) (Depends on the progress cost of Phase 5 and 6)
Food: 21 Current - 15 (Refugees 5/turn * 3 turns) + 4 (Fertilizer) - 12 (ELFS) + 12 (Agri Mech) + 18 BZ Aquaponics - 12 (Stockpiles Construction) = 16 Food

Personally I favor doing one phase of E-CRP, with a second phase being un wanted, but workable. That I think, strikes the right balance between Number Go Up and narrative effects. I should note that all of these options try to maintain the sort of Food Surplus we currently have as we'd rather people weren't eating the fungus bars.
 
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but the end of the world...Isn't yours to determine

Can't believe I'm making another Bartle's Taxonomy post:

This a planquest where we play a department of some sort that is in charge of building up some sort of infrastructure so that we can benefit from it. Sometimes also, like in the case of this planquest, so that the society which this department is a part of can benefit.

So a brief definition of terminology I'll be using here:

- A Diamond player is someone who takes action on the world.
- A Heart player is someone who interacts with people in the game be they PCs or NPCs.
- A Spade player is some who interacts with the world.
- A Club player is someone who acts on people in the game be they PCs or NPCs.

And yes I don't use players and instead use people as I find the latter more accurate for the way the taxonomy is set up. There are four questions that jump out about the Bartle taxonomy when I look at it this way:

- What is the division between action and interaction?
- What is the division between the world and the people in the game?
- Are players restricted to one type of play or do they have multiple? How? And Why?
- What are the non-obvious plays that still fit the definitions of the four player types?

So the answers I use to define the Bartle taxonomy so I can use it as a lens for analysis and the analysis I made in this case are:

- What is the division between action and interaction?

Action is about causing a reaction (both desired and not) and Interaction is about initiating a communication (both desired and not).

The whole CRP debacle is a good example of an action turning into an interaction: We got a NAT 1 on Freeze Dried Food Plants and we researched Corpse Starch at the same time:

[ ] Freeze Dried Food Plants
Freeze Drying effectively turns most food into permanent, shelf stable systems. While building additional plants to process food in this way will be expensive, it should significantly reduce waste, and increase the lifespan of the stockpiles noticeably.
(Progress 151/200: 20 resources per die) (+5 Food, increases efficiency of stockpile actions, -1 Energy) [Nat 1]

The Parliamentary committee on agriculture, specifically the subcommittee on storage and crisis response, has increasingly seen the Treasury's approach to solving the problem of stored food as fundamentally unserious. With the Treasury's slow investment in freeze drying plants, and the recent collapse of one plant in the north of Paris due to sabotage, it has been all the excuse the subcommittee needed to begin bringing administrators and engineers in to answer questions.

The head of the committee, Julius Wilson commented that "When we ordered the reconstruction of food stockpiles, it was with the intention of heading off shortages in case of war. With the ongoing war, and only a year left in the plan, it is obvious that Seo Thoki and the Treasury have decided that actually storing food is an unimportant bagatelle, rather than a vital element to prepare the Initiative to endure shortages."
Another representative described the ongoing strategy as "systematic underinvestment in vital food supplies, instead chasing high tech Wunderwerkzeuge."

While few of those answers have been particularly politically problematic for the Secretary or the Department, it has slowed progress on the freeze drying plants, and signaled that the Parliament is likely to take a much greater interest in managing reserves. In order to prevent that, and to fend off more intrusive demands, the Treasury is likely to need to get out ahead of the problem.

Beyond the political problems work on the freeze drying plants themselves has been slow, a result of both high demand for many of the parts used in the plants, but also a series of sabotage operations. The plants, as a civilian project, are relatively soft, meaning that they are often used as training exercises against live opposition for the Brotherhood's more inexperienced operatives.

[ ] Caloric Reclamation Processor Development (New) (Tech)
Taking the Brotherhood of Nod's technology to produce high bioavailability "food" blocks will provide both a means of creating virtual food stockpiles, and convert otherwise waste goods into usable calories and nutrition. While trying to feed GDI soldiers or civilians these rations outside of the deepest of emergencies will be politically unpopular at minimum, it is a useful means of extending vital food stockpiles.
(Progress 94/40: 5 resources per die) [65]

The Caloric Reclamation Processor is, simply put, a chemical and biological stomach, breaking down nearly anything into a foodlike product. While GDI has captured many examples of this technology, it has never had a full understanding of the operational principles – mostly because the end product is so disgusting that previous administrations had more scruples about what they were feeding their people. The final product of many processing rounds is a grey-green fibrous thread that can be compressed into biscuits, or left alone as a kind of very weak noodle. While more or less nutritionally complete with the addition of common multivitamins or fortification, the result of reconstituting the raw starch in boiling water tastes like 'cardboard crossed with moldy gym socks.' Attempts to reduce the off-flavor of the product has resulted in, at best, only increasing the tastelessness of it, causing more cardboard and a slight rancid aftertaste to come to the fore.

The products to become food are first macerated, broken down into small components, and then fed into a hopper, where a computer inputs the right combination of engineered bacteria – cultured elsewhere in the device or, for more portable systems, in a series of containers – which begin to break down nearly anything into nutrients. The resulting paste is then sterilized with a combination of heat and radiation, before being extruded.

Parliament is, to put it mildly, displeased with the results, seeing it as a means of avoiding the stockpiling goals with 'virtual stockpiles,' and as 'food' not fit to be fed to food animals, even if it was available as a category. While it is unlikely for Parliament to try to ban the technology entirely, at this time it is likely an incredibly bad idea to put it into action.

so the interaction between the two has caused us to have much higher Political Support penalties for the CRP deployment, possibly permanently, but at least until the Stored Food Goal is done.

Our Diplomatic/Negotiation Corps is the opposite:

[ ] Lobby For Establishment of Negotiation Corps
With the Initiative having engaged in negotiations with the Brotherhood of Nod on multiple occasions in the last years, one common element has been the completely amateur nature of GDI's diplomatic services. While currently there is limited support at best for a proper Department of State, establishing a corps of professional, dedicated negotiators to lead engagement with the Brotherhood and any neutrals may well have positive results.
(DC 100/120/130) (-5 Political Support per die)

The bill to establish a negotiator corps has been passed through GDI's parliament. Put forward by the Treasury, but co-sponsored by the Zone Operations Command and the Director, its passage was never in doubt. The only questions would be the latitude and the size of the corps. In full, it will be a fairly substantial group, if one that will have few to practice with besides themselves. Historically speaking, GDI had a massive corps of lobbyists since its founding, a result of needing to negotiate and placate hundreds of countries in order to retain funding and authority. However, in the tumultuous early 21st century, as nations crumbled and GDI's influence grew, with that influence came a certain chauvinism, as GDI held strong and nations fell to pieces. The Initiative was not just a supranational defense organization, it is a world government, one where there were two states of people. Those under GDI, and those who had not yet realized that they should be.
Their first test will be reassuring the Caravanserai that GDI still remains interested in the Mecca region, and attempt to find a long term peace. While this is not expected to succeed, they are also unlikely to fail in a way that is unrecoverable. With the holy cities well protected at this point, and only likely to be more so in the near future, with the possibility of ringing them in antimissile sites, it is likely that they will at the most become a bargaining chip to bring another round of Warlords to the table after the next major conflict.

We got an Action as a result of the interaction between multiple in-game factors for more than a year during the construction of Mecca/Medina including that NAT 1 we got on it at one point.

- What is the division between the world and the people in the game?

The division between the world and the people is in the abstraction. The more abstract the plans the more they are about the world. The less abstract the plans the more they are about the people.

In a plan quest you would think that we would only have abstraction as the option to play it, but this is not true. In this current argument @Simon_Jester has repeatedly been talking in the abstract about Plan commitments while the people who want Ranching Domes have been making both personal/granular arguments about the contents of fridges and abstract arguments about how numbers going up or just completing Plan goals isn't enough to win in this planquest.

Here let me Club my argument against skipping Ranching Domes:

Hey @Ithillid how soon do we start losing our Quatar Loyalist bonus if we don't do the Ranching Domes to unlock the next step in giving them better healthcare?

- Are players restricted to one type of play or do they have multiple? How? And Why?

Both. Players have as many plays and types of play as they are able to wrap their head around. It all depends on if the players themselves are able to look at a problem from different enough angles (switching from action to interaction or vice versa and/or from looking at the world (high abstraction) to looking at the people (low abstraction) or vice versa in their analysis of the problem) to be able to imagine different plays and types of play. There is also a matter of preference for certain plays and types of play by a player that will define what they will chose to do when faced with a problem. The preferences themselves may be situational (based on the current problem and it's environment) and/or characteristic (based on the player's own personality) for the player.

@Simon_Jester is a Club player primarily because he keeps acting on/reacting to other players both in game (NOD, Not-Scrin/visitors, Population/Politicians) and out. Did you think Simon was replying to almost every poster that talks about plans because he was trying to engage with every point of view? In that case he could have just made a post about what every point of view was and talk about how he sees them. Not quote post after quote post of almost every person who posts something about what they want done next plan.

@Derpmind on the other hand is a Heart/Spade hybrid player primarily because she keeps interacting with both the world and the players both inside the game by making her probability array every turn and outside it by listening to the player base and then sometimes modifying a plan in such a way that it appeals emotionally to a majority of players/voters to the point that her mod plans win more often than not when she does them.

This is going to be one of the fracture points between the player base next turn as plans get deployed because the questions of:

Whether we should have a large Food surplus in Q3?
And whether we should do the Extra Large Food Stockpiles now or in Q3? Since it won't finish if we do it in Q4.

are the sort of things we can expect next turn.

- What are the non-obvious plays that still fit the definitions of the four player types?

Well in the case of this quest any Heart or Spade play since we are not interacting with individuals/people directly at the level of abstraction this quest operates at, you want @NickAragua's side-quest for obvious Heart/Spade play. First Lieutenant Violet Hawthorne-Smythe is quite the Heart-shaped Spade.

As for what these non-obvious Heart or Spade plays look like? Well in the case of Spade plays anytime we develop or deploy anything synergetic in-game like our new missiles or Tiberium Zone Border Actions Capstones. And in the case of Heart well the current inciting argument for Ranching Domes:

Okay, I'm making this post at the encouragement of a friend, because they liked and believed in what I said, and were worried about this issue. These are my own words.

I'm currently looking in my pantry. I have salt, I have black pepper. I have a fully loaded spice rack. Cinnamon, cumin, coriander, celery seed, celery salt, cayenne pepper, cloves, cilantro, chili powder, cajun spice. This is just the Cs. Did you know empires were built on spice? Spice merchants were, and still are, some of the richest people on the planet. With how many I've got I can see why.

I have prepackaged rice boxes, I have prepackaged cake mixes, I have prepackaged cheesy noodles, I have prepackaged corn bread mix, I have jello mix packages.

I have a can of olive oil. I have a jar of palm oil. I have popcorn seeds. I have cans of tomato sauce, I have cans of tomato soup. I have bottles of syrup, a bottle of mayo, a bottle of chocolate sauce, I have packages of cocoa powder. I have a jar of peanut butter, a bottle of white vinegar, a bottle of worcester sauce.

I have flour, I have suger, I have vegetable oil. I have honey. I don't like honey, but my brother does, so honey there is. I have a bag of dried blueberries and a box of tang. I even have my pride and joy, a jar of homemade beef tallow.

Bread. I have a loaf of french bread, a pair of baguettes, a loaf of white sandwich bread, a package of hamburger buns and of hotdog buns.

My tiny ass freezer has frozen chicken breasts, porkchops, bone in beef short ribs and a fat stack of frozen sirloin hamburger patties. And of course a quart and a half each of vanilla ice cream and orange sherbet.

My refrigerator has, for a start, about four different kind cheese. Cheeder, swiss, monchego and velveeta. Though that last on you could argue is some kind of space rock, much like Tiberium. I have a gallon of apple juice, and two gallons of milk. I have a jar of bread and butter pickles, a jar of spicy sweet pickles, and a jar of homemade thai hot pickles. I have a twenty-four pack of eggs. I have what's left of a rotisserie chicken, a giant bowl of chicken and vegetable soup. I have bacon. I have steak. I have hotdogs. I have ketchup, I have mustard, I have fish sauce, I have soy sauce, I have oyster sauce, I have teriyaki sauce. I have carrots, celery, onions and cabbage. I have salsa. I have ginger and garlic. I also have red curry paste, it's great in a lot of things. I have beef and chicken bouillon, they're great for punching up soups and stews.

I have butter. I have lots, and lots, of butter.

A GDI citizen does not have butter. A GDI citizen living in an arcology does not have a quarter of what I have. You know why the politicians were getting on our ass about how shitty the corpse starch was? Because the food's shitty right now. There's food you can eat to live off of, not food to snack on and cook with, not unless you are insanely rich or a freak that likes fungus bars.

Know what GDI does have? A super sonic air superiority aircraft. Newest generation, spared no expense. And when that wasn't enough, the old standby fighter-bomber got next generation missiles tipped with xenotech plasma warheads and the very lastest modern anti-air lasers. And they both got drone support fighters directly slaved to those planes, equipped with both of these things, to hold more weapons and act as meat shields. And let's not forget the actual energy shields.

Agriculture needs more dice. The standard meal the average GDI citizen needs to go up. People don't just want to live off their food, they want to thrive. If we want Seo to stay in office so we can do his projects, that only he can do, we need to drum up popular support. And before you say Plan Goals, the person who got bacon back on everyone's table is going to stay in office far, far long then the person who met an industrial processing goal, or put more mines on the moon.

Yes, I am aware I am one of the military tech nerds who pushed for lasers. I am also aware I did a big write up of cool military tech I wanted to pursue, which includes even more lasers. No, I don't plan to stop trying to fit these things into plans. But I will be pushing to fit them in alongside bacon and butter, even if they mean missing some plan goals. Because the narrative does matter in this quest, and the narrative of someone the people love has far more staying power then someone who met all the plan goals.

and this is a very effective Heart play considering we have spent part of the last 10 pages that wasn't the SCED Quest arguing about this post.

We are mostly playing obvious Diamond/Clubs plays in this quest, but for instance the non-obvious Diamond play we can do is Yellow Zone Marv Hubs as those get us refugees, while our entire Grant system and Interdepartmental Favors are non-obvious Club plays.

Now Sufficient Velocity has a reputation online for being a forum/board for Club type players (having shared it's stack of Club players with Questionable Questing along the lines of romance (SV)/smut (QQ) and with Space Battles along the lines of which one's a Hug Box, depending on whether the person you are asking left or right leaning usually, and @Ithillid was one of the first adopters of the Planquest after it was codified with Blackstar's Soviet AU Roleplay.

This type of quest draws in Action type players (Diamonds and Clubs), so the OP actually went to the effort of building in narrative stakes to any action to draw in the Interaction type players (Hearts and Spades) and has succeeded to the point that this quest has a healthy balance of play styles that keeps everyone pretty much engaged for the voting period. Also planmakers play around with testing out ideas for new plans between votes and still have a good cross section of play styles to draw on.

Online on average when it comes to privilege given to a type of player the sequence is Diamonds, Hearts, Spades, Clubs in descending order of Diamond type players having the largest privilege and Club type players having the least privilege.

This might be one of the reasons why Simon is eager to talk to almost everyone mentioning plan goals: He's in a social disadvantage when it comes to making an argument stick and he is deeply invested in this quest in particular for whatever reason. He doesn't make the same level of argument in most other quests I see him in on this site.

One last thing:

The Food and Food Stockpile Actions are Actions where overflow for the most part isn't a minus and as such we can surge them in Q4 if we keep rolling them every turn. So doing Ranching Domes now so it can be slow rolled to completion and have enough time to be compensated for is a valid and sane strategy and doesn't have to screw us over for plan completion.

More importantly for the people who were arguing we have a duty to Parliament:

[ ] 45 points in reserve - An actually paranoid level of preparedness, a full 45 points worth of food in reserve is a significant investment and one that can be done only with efforts to both expand total food production and preservation efforts. (+10 PS)

Food: 18 points in reserve
-[ ] Increase Stored Food by an additional 40 points by the end of next plan
-[ ] Increase Stored Food by an additional 30 points by the end of next plan and -5 Political Support

Parliament wants around 50 Food Stockpile and that was before the refugee wave that is incoming right now. So any overflow is something we will get a use out of one way or the other.
 
@Simon_Jester You have a lot of arguments for why the food reserve is more important than food quality. But I'm going to ask you again: Why can't we do both? Can you give me a solid, mechanical reason for why one must somehow be at the expense of the other?

We can argue till the cows come home about which is more important, but that presupposes that both are important issues. And unless you can somehow convince me that food quality isn't important, or that we mechanically cannot do a food quality project next turn, I will continue to insist that we should still do so.
I'm honestly in favor of pulling the trigger on ELFS in Q2. We're going to get freeze dried done in Q2 regardless of roll, so that'll free up... +6 food? Mech will add +12, enough to cover ELFS on its own (If it shifts to -12 for +8 Stored). Fertilizer will add another +4. So we'd be looking at a net +6-10 food gain before population changes eat food surplus? If we manage to pump out 2 phases of Strategic Food Stockpiles, that'd be -6 Food for +4 Stored Food, leaving us at +0-4 net food gain. And just +6 stored food short of the goal going into Q3, I believe. Barring shit rolls, naturally. So, ECRP Phase 1 and another round of Strategic stockpiles would clear Goals for Q4.

Though I wonder how ELFS would change based on freeze dried completing. Will it remain +8 Stored (and drop to -12 Food)? Or will the -Food stay near its current level and just increases the Stored Food (+10 Stored, -15 Food)?

I'm really hoping we'll get a better stockpile option soon that's not increasingly progress heavy for small amounts of +Stored Food.
Now that you point it out, I do think we can do XL Stockpiles next turn. Fertilizers and Freezers are practically guaranteed to give +10 Food, and XL Stockpiles will cost -12 Food, for a net cost of -2 Food. Easy enough to afford with our current +26 Food surpluss. Example plan:

Q2:
-[] L&CL
--[] Chemical Fertilizer Plants 1 die (+4 Food)
-[] Agriculture 4/4 dice +3 Free +AA/Erewhon Dice
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 3 dice (61% +12 Food)
--[] Ranching Domes 3 dice (42% -4 Food)
--[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 1 die (+6 Food)
--[] Extra Large Food Stockpiles 1 AA/Erewhon die (-12 Food, +8 Reserve)

Worst-case Food: +26, +4 Fertilizer, +6 Freezers, -12 XL Stockpiles, -4 Ranching. Worst-case total: +20 Food.
Best-case: +36 Food. Everything-finishes-case: +32 Food. Even the worst-case puts us at a totally acceptable level.
(Extra worst-case: XL Stockpiles temporarily costs -16 Food for the turn instead and we go down to +16 Food total, until Freezers kick into effect the turn after... which is still an acceptably high Food amount, especially since people will see us doing a big chunk of +Reserve that turn.)

And if you think that's still too risky, just switch Ranching Domes out for Vertical Farming. As for CRP, the above should work out with or without us doing CRP. Though if you want to do CRP, it might be best to wait for Q3 in the hopes that its -PS cost goes down from doing the XL Stockpile action.

@Phht I think I might really like the above for next turn over my previous versions. I'd guess it's not quite what you were going for, but still, thank you for pointing this out.
 
That's a dick move and you should feel bad. We should try and finish them first, because we the Treasury exist to fund the other branches, not hoard wealth like a dragon.
NO! You don't understand 😩 We, the the threadhive, control the main character: the Treasury. We! Are! GDI! All the other parts of government just orbit around our amassed institutional power like stars orbit around supermassive black holes at the center of galaxies.

(To be fair tho, while intellectually I get the rest of the government does stuff with their share of resources, its kinda hard to see this in actual effect. The closest we get is SCEDQuest with their yearly budget of about 5 Main Quest Resources.)
 
That's a dick move and you should feel bad. We should try and finish them first, because we the Treasury exist to fund the other branches, not hoard wealth like a dragon.


To be the Devils Advocate, the Harvesting Claws being deployed after reallocation would allow us to activate more dice at the earliest possible timeframe rather than obsessively refilling our budget on the first year and allow us to spend more money on the earliest possible time.

It is also the reason why my preference to ditch the Frigates on the remaining year and get two ZA Factories and then get two or three Border Offensives phases complete. So that we can spend more time funding projects than obsessing over getting our money back.

To quote GDI Online

Well this is why the politicians always take Treasury's budget. Treasury will do what they need to to secure their budget no matter what.
 
To be the Devils Advocate, the Harvesting Claws being deployed after reallocation would allow us to activate more dice at the earliest possible timeframe rather than obsessively refilling our budget on the first year and allow us to spend more money on the earliest possible time.

It is also the reason why my preference to ditch the Frigates on the remaining year and get two ZA Factories and then get two or three Border Offensives phases complete. So that we can spend more time funding projects than obsessing over getting our money back.

To quote GDI Online

If we complete the Harvesting Tendrils we will be at around 2100 Tiberium income. That is 700 Resources per Turn after Reallocation just from the Tiberium Harvesting. That is 300 more Resources per Turn than we started the current plan with. If we get our Lunar Mines excluded from Reallocation we will have 800 Resources per Turn to start with. Add on top of that whatever extra Resources we stockpile in the meantime from extra production and we will still have something like 900 to a 1000 Resources to use on the first turn after Reallocation.

And that is not counting also the bonus Resources we will get from better taxes or decreases in our RpT from various financial duties we have already taken on and will probably take on in the meanwhile.

If we also do Harvesting Claws now we will get a boost to Vein Mines before Reallocation meaning we can and should just spam those since they get us 40-60 Resources per Turn for 100 Resources and 5 Tiberium Dice right now and will do more with Harvesting Claws.
 
That's a dick move and you should feel bad. We should try and finish them first, because we the Treasury exist to fund the other branches, not hoard wealth like a dragon.
To be fair, we're not under an obligation to pursue only the Tiberium projects that maximize income, purely to maximize the revenue we send to other branches.

Because we do actually have other responsibilities that are included under the Tiberium department, such as general tiberium abatement.

For instance, if we don't finish the second phase of the tendril deployment in the coming three turns, but do a lot of projects that increase Red Zone mitigation and provide more Energy from ion power, we're not really failing in our obligations.

One thing I'm going to start agitating for in the next Plan, though, is the Interdepartmental Favors action, which will allow us to spin off income in exchange for other good results. If current patterns persist, I'm hopeful that we'll be able to fund all our dice by the end of 2062, even if not always to fund all our dice to do the specific things we'd like to do. At that point, trading income for political boosts (such as "finally able to get this mad science project done") could be worthwhile.

In which case... Well, that's Treasury continuing to increase its wealth to fund other branches, even in between reallocations.

...

Also, the only reason we have such a stark choice is because the project is subdivided into only two phases for a massive global rollout, so how much of the income benefit we get or have is a very all-or-nothing proposition. I'm a bit confused by that, really.

@Simon_Jester You have a lot of arguments for why the food reserve is more important than food quality. But I'm going to ask you again: Why can't we do both? Can you give me a solid, mechanical reason for why one must somehow be at the expense of the other?
Mechanically speaking, because even with ECRP Phase 1, we easily have at least 6-7 dice worth of Agriculture work left to do to accomplish either goal. So unless you're planning around a meme plan that slings eleven dice to Agriculture (which I would call overcompensating and inadvisable) or a plan that uses ECRP Phase 2 as well (which I would call just plain inadvisable)...

Well, we are still at a stage where every die spent on food quality improvement necessitates a delay in completing the Stored Food target, and vice versa, with the sole exception of fertilizer plants which help to achieve both goals and don't take Agriculture dice from either.

Thus, we have a choice. We can try to surge Ranching Domes, or we can lay the groundwork to be confident of completing the Stored Food target in Q3 (and also working on Ranching Domes in Q3, I suspect both will be possible then).

But by the time we put enough dice into Ranching Domes to have a reasonable chance of a Q2 completion for the project, we're significantly compromising our ability to hit the Stored Food target in Q3, as far as I can tell... barring extreme Free dice investment, and since we have other places the Free dice need to go as well, that's not a great thing.

...

Meanwhile, in-character:

1) We have a professional obligation to obey the legislature, and the legislature has made it very clear what their priorities are, because they're lashing us over failure to meet the Stored Food target in a hurry, but not over the lack of ranching domes.

2) This is combined with the likelihood that the legislature knows more about which thing the people want more... in which case the fact that they're lashing us over one but not the other may well reflect what the populace actually wants. As in, people kvetch on the Internet about the lack of high quality food, but what keeps them awake at night is the fear that in the event of another big war, they might all starve.

Q2:
-[] L&CL
--[] Chemical Fertilizer Plants 1 die (+4 Food)
-[] Agriculture 4/4 dice +3 Free +AA/Erewhon Dice
--[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 2) 3 dice (61% +12 Food)
--[] Ranching Domes 3 dice (42% -4 Food)
--[] Freeze Dried Food Plants 1 die (+6 Food)
--[] Extra Large Food Stockpiles 1 AA/Erewhon die (-12 Food, +8 Reserve)
Again, this would (roughly) be my plan if I thought we had an obligation to do Ranching Domes before completing the Stored Food target, on the grounds that The People Have Spoken and they clearly want the former more than the latter.

Since I believe that we have no such obligation, because insofar as The People Have Spoken they have said the opposite... I'm going to be doing more or less this, but with the ranching dome dice diverted to build granaries, followed by probable ranching dome investment next turn.

It's not the risk of running low on food that's been deterring me from doing any this, it's the fact that we can only point our dice towards one project at one time, or split focus between two projects and take a long time to do both.

As for CRP, the above should work out with or without us doing CRP. Though if you want to do CRP, it might be best to wait for Q3 in the hopes that its -PS cost goes down from doing the XL Stockpile action.
I have already taken your second sentence under advisement. However, as to your first sentence, if we're considering maybe not doing ECRP, then we really don't have Agriculture dice to waste right now, because we're effectively required to spend Free dice just to even complete those goals by Q4. If we're looking at 15-18 dice required as a mandatory minimum, then spending three dice on an unrelated project right now sounds like a really bad idea.

To be the Devils Advocate, the Harvesting Claws being deployed after reallocation would allow us to activate more dice at the earliest possible timeframe rather than obsessively refilling our budget on the first year and allow us to spend more money on the earliest possible time.
Are you talking about Claws, or about the Tendrils Phase 2 project? Because we don't actually know what Claws does yet. It's quite possible that its mechanical effects will appear only as a boost to vein mining on the grounds that for other projects the tendrils are functionally superior in most applications.

It is also the reason why my preference to ditch the Frigates on the remaining year and get two ZA Factories...
I don't see how this helps. First, that's a zero-sum game. Either we spend 20 R/die on an Energy-intensive Navy project, or 20 R/die on an Energy-intensive Ground Force project. We still need those frigates, and we need them soon, so delaying construction of the frigates just isn't very likely to help.

If the idea is that the Ground Force Zone Armor project will make things better for ZOCOM, well, ZOCOM hasn't actually given signs of being so overstrained that it becomes mandatory to do this immediately. And even so, we are reasonably likely to be in a position to do at least the first Ground Force Zone Armor project as early as 2061Q4-2062Q1.

Furthermore, logistically speaking the Red Zone Border Offensives you propose (and I support) are those least likely to put extra strain on ZOCOM. Because they don't involve deep penetration of the Red Zones. Remember that when Reynaldo ambushed one of our operations in Northern Italy and the military restricted our deep Red Zone operations, we lost Red Zone Harvesting and Glacier Mining, but didn't lose Red Zone Containment Lines? Same thing.

Ground Force can help secure the flanks of our attacks on the "surface" of a Red Zone; it cannot go down into the Red Zones to mine a glacier 200 km inside the Red Zone. Since tiberium-infused Nod troops can attack both targets with roughly equal ease (though not with roughly equal losses of materiel), ZOCOM will probably be much happier to see us doing Red Zone Border Offensives than more "normal" glacier mining.

and then get two or three Border Offensives phases complete. So that we can spend more time funding projects than obsessing over getting our money back.
Many of my plans have included border offensives.
 
Mechanically speaking, because even with ECRP Phase 1, we easily have at least 6-7 dice worth of Agriculture work left to do to accomplish either goal. So unless you're planning around a meme plan that slings eleven dice to Agriculture (which I would call overcompensating and inadvisable) or a plan that uses ECRP Phase 2 as well (which I would call just plain inadvisable)...
Eleven dice?!? What? :jackiechan:

We are not obligated to finish the Food Reserve in Q3. I'm planning on finishing it in Q4, as we're required to, with enough dice to get to 99%+ certainty. That requires some free dice, yes, but split over the next three turns. Not piled up in Q3 all at once, and certainly not so many as all seven of our free dice in a single turn. And like, even if we do roll absolute-super-duper pants in Q4 somehow, (a risk all of our plan goals face no matter what we do, tbh,) we've been told that the legislature is plenty forgiving if we actually tried to fulfill our goals and didn't finish simply because of dice. Which aiming to overflow on the last phase of the Storage project certainly qualifies for, if we end up there.

I just don't get it. Why exactly do we absolute need to finish the Food Reserve in Q3? What is it that you think we need Agriculture cleared up for in Q4, yet can't work on now?

(If you want to make the legislature happy, doing the big XL Stockpile project next turn should make them plenty enough happy for that turn. But we won't get extra cookie points from them for completely finishing the Food Reserve in Q3 instead of Q4.)
It's not the risk of running low on food that's been deterring me from doing any this, it's the fact that we can only point our dice towards one project at one time, or split focus between two projects and take a long time to do both.
...the projects you're quoting will either take one turn, or will be very dang likely to be finished in two turns. I'm trying to plan how we'll get our Agriculture needs finished over the next three turns. That's not "take a long time". That's exactly the amount of time we have allocated. And splitting our focus between multiple projects is just how planquests work.
I have already taken your second sentence under advisement. However, as to your first sentence, if we're considering maybe not doing ECRP, then we really don't have Agriculture dice to waste right now, because we're effectively required to spend Free dice just to even complete those goals by Q4. If we're looking at 15-18 dice required as a mandatory minimum, then spending three dice on an unrelated project right now sounds like a really bad idea.
If we want to do any CRP project at all, doing a project that improves general food quality will go a long way towards convincing people to be ok with it. And I'm keeping things open for those who object to CRP project entirely; as it's still viable to complete the Plan Goal without CRP I don't see a reason not to make plans that aim to avoid CRP if possible.
 
Eleven dice?!? What? :jackiechan:
With an eleven-die meme plan in Q2, we could position ourselves to finish the Food Reserve in Q3 (with ECRP Phase 1) and have Ranching Domes as a surefire outcome in Q2 (with good rolls) or Q3 (with bad rolls).

Otherwise, we end up having to choose for one of those outcomes to be postponed by at least one quarter. Likewise, not choosing ECRP Phase 1 means delaying at least one of those outcomes by one quarter. I consider ECRP Phase 1 to be an acceptable price to pay, but do not consider the meme plan idea to be an acceptable price. It would appear that you agree with me on the meme plan idea.

So I'm accepting a tradeoff where we hopefully hit the Stored Food target in Q3, can definitely finish Ranching Domes in Q3 or Q4, and have the bulk of our Q3 and (especially) Q4 Free dice available to do anything and everything that needs doing and isn't Agriculture.

Now, you can promote "definitely finish Ranching Domes" to Q2-or-Q3, at the cost of hitting the Stored Food target in Q4. That's a thing that can be done. My reasons for not doing that include:

1) Extreme lack of desire to force ourselves to throw ourselves on the legislature's mercy and patience in the event that we fail to hit a target. And we would be forcing ourselves into that position by committing sizeable numbers of dice away from the mandatory project for the optional but desired projects at this time. It's the same reason that my Military plans are spending dice on OSRCT and not Zone Armor factories even though I thin the latter is objectively more important. Or why my Heavy Industry plans are putting like four dice on crystal beam lasers instead of more like two-and-two on lasers and fusion reactor improvements. While you believe that we will be okay if, after fucking around, we find out... I'd rather not find out.

2) Additional to (1), I believe that the most genuine and accurate sources of clues we have on what the public really wants suggest that the public really wants more food storage. Like, a lot. An amount that would be hard for us early-21st-century-OTL people to understand. We're projecting our own attitudes ("what would I like least about living in GDI right now") and conclude that what the people want most is tastier food... But our own attitudes are not the attitudes of people who have survived between two and four rounds of intense warfare in a world that is on the brink of death from alien femtotech replicators eating it.

I think this is the case. I think this is why politicians crack the whip over us on the Stored Food issue. We could have been hit with a "make food better" target in 2058. No one would have been surprised. The legislature had that option. It didn't happen, and I think there were reasons for that.

I just don't get it. Why exactly do we absolute need to finish the Food Reserve in Q3? What is it that you think we need Agriculture cleared up for in Q4, yet can't work on now?
I want to do the thing the legislature told us to do and obviously cares about a lot, as a higher priority than the thing the legislature didn't tell us to do and has never mentioned to us.

(If you want to make the legislature happy, doing the big XL Stockpile project next turn should make them plenty enough happy for that turn. But we won't get extra cookie points from them for completely finishing the Food Reserve in Q3 instead of Q4.)
I am already planning to do ELFS this turn; the only question on my mind is whether to do ECRP in the same turn or wait one turn.

...the projects you're quoting will either take one turn, or will be very dang likely to be finished in two turns. I'm trying to plan how we'll get our Agriculture needs finished over the next three turns. That's not "take a long time". That's exactly the amount of time we have allocated. And splitting our focus between multiple projects is just how planquests work.
In Q3, I'll be wanting to split our focus. But we have two projects, one much bigger than the other, and much more strongly mandated for us by the government. It behooves us to do the bigger and more mandatory project first, or at least get it mostly finished so that our capacity to finish is no longer seriously in doubt by outside observers.
 
Food: 18 points in reserve

[] Chemical Fertilizer Plants (Phase 2)(Progress 276/300: 15 resources per die) (+4 Consumer Goods, +4 Food, -1 Energy) 1 Dice
[] Agriculture Mechanization Projects (Phase 1)(Progress 0/250: 15 resources per die) (+12 Food, -1 Energy, -1 Capital Goods) 3 Dice
[] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 4)(Progress 75/420: 10 resources per die) (+18 Food) (-3 Labor, -3 Logistics) 4 Dice
[] Vertical Farming Projects (Stage 2)(Progress 65/240: 15 resources per die) (+4 Food, +4 Consumer goods, -2 Energy), 3 Dice
[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 3+4+5)(Progress 0/175, 0/200, 0/225?: 10 resources per die) (+2 Food in Reserve, -3 Food X4) 10-13 Dice
[] Extra Large Food Stockpiles(+8 Food in reserve, -12 Food)

We don't NEED CRP or ERCP to complete our goal, we can complete it just fine with ELFS, SFS and the retroactive Freezer boost, which will save food, which we can than put back into SFS for even more stockpiles. as is, going for either CRP or ERCP is a PS tank when we don't even need either, its only when we have a surplus of really good and quality foods that we can possibly get it past Parliament with less of a negative PS tank, unlike now where if we overshoot either, which is entirely damn possible, we can lose up to 15 PS or so on CRP and 25 on the other, so no we cannot handle that type of Parliament shitstorm now near the end of our plan.
 
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People told me that GDi had mostly won against NOD in the Regency Wars. Now that I am catching up on those updates, I am seeing that its the opposite, NOD has been kicking GDI ass with only victories against Gideon and Krukov.

The main problem that I have identified is our deployment of new tech. NOD deploys new bullshit tech in every engagement, while we take a lot of time to develop new tech and even more time, years in fact, to deploy those, thus losing the best window. And we really should have focussed a little bit more on the navy.
 
People told me that GDi had mostly won against NOD in the Regency Wars. Now that I am catching up on those updates, I am seeing that its the opposite, NOD has been kicking GDI ass with only victories against Gideon and Krukov.

The main problem that I have identified is our deployment of new tech. NOD deploys new bullshit tech in every engagement, while we take a lot of time to develop new tech and even more time, years in fact, to deploy those, thus losing the best window. And we really should have focussed a little bit more on the navy.


Actually it is a bit more 70/30 , we are winning against Krukov, Reynaldo and Gideon and completely crushed Australia while our losses are against Stahl and Bintang while thanks to us Caravanserai is against Mehretu in a civil war and The china warlord did not join so we are ahead by a decent margin

Unlike Nod, we cannot provide Bare bones to our people so we cannot divert much to our military but it still better than theirs.
 
[] Strategic Food Stockpile Construction (Phase 2+3+4+5)(Progress 38/150, 175, 200, 225?: 10 resources per die) (+2 Food in Reserve, -3 Food X4) 8-10 Dice

We just finished Phase 2, so it would be Phase 3-6 that we need to complete to get +8 Food in Reserve. Which would increase the cost by about 2-3 dice, putting us at ~10-13 dice needed for the stockpile construction.

We don't NEED CRP or ERCP to complete our goal, we can complete it just fine with ELFS, SFS and the retroactive Freezer boost, which will save food, which we can than put back into SFS for even more stockpiles. as is, going for either CRP or ERCP is a PS tank when we don't even need either, its only when we have a surplus of really good and quality foods that we can possibly get it past Parliament with less of a negative PS tank, unlike now where if we overshoot either, which is entirely damn possible, we can lose up to 15 PS or so on CRP and 25 on the other, so no we cannot handle that type of Parliament shitstorm now near the end of our plan.

I don't think anyone is arguing that we can't complete the Food Reserve goal without CRP or E-CRP. The argument is more, would you rather have more dice to spend on things like Ranching Domes and Vert Farms, or would you rather spend it all on stockpile construction. Further, if you take a look at my post up thread here, I lay out the three general options to deal with our Food Reserve Goal. None of those options need CRP, though two of them use E-CRP. I also point out that one of the projects we are very likely to do if we did free up Agri dice is Ranching Domes, which does provide 5 PS. 5 PS which we cannot get unless we use E-CRP to free up Agri dice or we invest excessive Free dice into Agriculture. That right there means we should at least consider investing a single die in E-CRP, and even if we do have to invest a second die and it does roll over and completes both phases, we still can have more PS at the end of the plan then we do now.

Now CRP on the other hand, I completely agree, is a no go, and will be for some time.
 
People told me that GDi had mostly won against NOD in the Regency Wars. Now that I am catching up on those updates, I am seeing that its the opposite, NOD has been kicking GDI ass with only victories against Gideon and Krukov.

The main problem that I have identified is our deployment of new tech. NOD deploys new bullshit tech in every engagement, while we take a lot of time to develop new tech and even more time, years in fact, to deploy those, thus losing the best window. And we really should have focussed a little bit more on the navy.

So did you just miss the part where we took over the vast majority of Western Europe and all of Australia or have you not gotten there yet? What must be done to reach a victory threshold in your view, is it win every battle and mount Kane's head in parliment?
 
That would be tacky, and wouldn't really compliment the aesthetic of the Earth rotating outside the window.

Indeed you must forgive me my indulgence but I fear I am compelled when there is text of the type such as;
The war in Europe has however been a great success, a grand victory for the Initiative, and one that has seen territories that were last in Initiative hands some fifty years ago once more returned to their rightful place.
and a reader feels it is not sufficient.
 
It does not matter whether you finish the projects towards the goal in Q2, Q3, or Q4. So long as it is done before 00.00.0000 1/1/2062.
That... is good to know. Notably different from what the situation seemed to be regarding Karachi, which is nice to know.

While you're answering questions, in the hypothetical scenario where we are, say, 50/80 towards Emergency Caloric Reprocessing Plants Phase 1 over in Infrastructure, is there any way to ensure that we don't accidentally overcomplete all the way to Phase 2 on a high dice roll? Because we've been contemplating situations where that might happen when we wouldn't want it to- when we want only one phase.

It seems like it would be feasible to just top-down say "look, stop at this point, if you get there really fast just chill and take the rest of the month off or something, don't overachieve." You'd think so, anyway.

We don't NEED CRP or ERCP to complete our goal, we can complete it just fine with ELFS, SFS and the retroactive Freezer boost...
You're strictly correct, but a single phase of ERCP would really help and free up a lot of wiggle room in the Agriculture sector, where otherwise we're looking at a furious mad-dash to the finish line with very little time to do anything else except MAYBE in Q4 if we're lucky and throw a lot of Free dice around.

People told me that GDi had mostly won against NOD in the Regency Wars. Now that I am catching up on those updates, I am seeing that its the opposite, NOD has been kicking GDI ass with only victories against Gideon and Krukov.
Look at the maps in the turn post. See all that land that's colored green? That's land we took from Nod.

At the end of the war, GDI was standing on a lot of Nod's land. Nod was not standing on any of GDI's land. Nod was freaking the fuck out and thinking of literally going nuclear to stop GDI armored columns from penetrating further into their Yellow Zones. GDI was not freaking the fuck out and thinking of going nuclear to stop Nod armored columns from penetrating further into their Blue Zones.

GDI won. Cold, hard fact.

The main problem that I have identified is our deployment of new tech. NOD deploys new bullshit tech in every engagement, while we take a lot of time to develop new tech and even more time, years in fact, to deploy those, thus losing the best window.
You're ignoring what it looks like from the other side's perspective. We've pulled busted out some bullshit weapons too. Ablative tiles were a bullshit weapon when we first deployed them back in the '50s; Nod had to rearm much of their military to compensate. The Apollo fighter is still a bullshit weapon, in that in pretty much every engagement it swoops down from the goddamn stratosphere at Mach 4, reaps a toll of Nod aircraft, and swoops away before Nod can even fire back effectively. Nod rarely manages to draw a bead on the things.

Meanwhile, the bulk of Nod's forces are still armed with relatively straightforward and normal things that we are good at kicking the asses of in a straight fight; it's just a matter of getting a straight fight and being able to cope on the rare occasions when the enemy pulls some Ace Combat-tier bullshit superweapon out of their ass.

So sure, Nod keeps rolling out cute new Wunderwaffe. And we keep handing them their asses when it's time to throw hands.

Don't be so easily intimidated.
 
While you're answering questions, in the hypothetical scenario where we are, say, 50/80 towards Emergency Caloric Reprocessing Plants Phase 1 over in Infrastructure, is there any way to ensure that we don't accidentally overcomplete all the way to Phase 2 on a high dice roll? Because we've been contemplating situations where that might happen when we wouldn't want it to- when we want only one phase.

It seems like it would be feasible to just top-down say "look, stop at this point, if you get there really fast just chill and take the rest of the month off or something, don't overachieve." You'd think so, anyway.
Yeah. I would put it in as a vote in the resultspost. I don't think it has ever come up before where you had a situation where you did not want to do both.
 
While you're answering questions, in the hypothetical scenario where we are, say, 50/80 towards Emergency Caloric Reprocessing Plants Phase 1 over in Infrastructure, is there any way to ensure that we don't accidentally overcomplete all the way to Phase 2 on a high dice roll? Because we've been contemplating situations where that might happen when we wouldn't want it to- when we want only one phase.
Sorry to be a bother but I've kinda stopped paying attention to the agriculture and food discussion since it seems to be rather heated and I didn't particularly want to be involved.

But why would it be bad if we planned to complete a single phase but managed to roll well enough to complete a second?

It seems really unlikely to roll that well to begin with. And if we got food reserves from one phase we would get more from two?

If it's a political cost why wouldn't we just accept that we might have a 1 out of 20 chance or whatever that we will get more food and pay more political points? If it happens it happens. Doesn't seem terribly likely.

Besides, I would assume as phases complete it improves in some way. Maybe by whatever last phase the garbage rations are improved to neutral with the bugs worked out?

Forgive me if there are really obvious answers to this and I'm basically being ignorant about this.

Like I said, I haven't been paying enough attention and don't understand why a chance of completing another phase would be really bad.
 
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