[X] Plan Sunrise
I'd love to be able to work on the atmospheric containment shield, but mark 2 fusion craft are more useful.
I'd love to be able to work on the atmospheric containment shield, but mark 2 fusion craft are more useful.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
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- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I refuse to vote for a plan that has the Pathfinder deliver one (1) rover. Not to mention not doing the Pathfinder Shielding Refit. It's a complete waste of Pathfinder's exploration time to have it basically do nothing for three months straight.
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- alphen aan den rijn
so from what i can see and i think understand we need a lot more IP going forward got it
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- Most likely California
Thanks for the map, it does help out a lot. I was just entering everything into Wikipedia to find out where things were.
Anyways, this is probably extremely premature, given the whole world war thing, but when we finally got around to building MARVs again, do people want to build ones in the smaller Yellow Zones or in the near-Blue Zones areas to improve homeland defense?
The former will include areas like YZ16 (Horn of Africa), Y22 (Indochina), Y25 (Indonesia) , and YZ4 (Philippines). Relatively small, isolated, and lacking a warlord to offer organized resistance, allowing GDI to easily establish control. This would allow easily growth of the Hub into a proper base/city, improving GDI force projection, and possibly even creating the formations for a new Blue Zone.
On the other hand, the recent war shows that the warlords are still threats that should be handled soon rather than later. Using MARVs patrol the areas near the Blue Zones could help improve our defense, while locking down the coastlines to starve the local NOD forces of outside support. This would include YZ9 (West Mexico), YZ13 N&S (West Africa), YZ15 (Spain), and YZ14 (Southern Africa).
As a side note, I'm not sure which of these two categories YZ3 (China) falls under. It's near Blue Zones, but far enough away and with enough coast line that it won't affect security too much. It does have a warlord, but they're weak enough that everyone seems to consider them a non-issue. I do want to build a hub there either way, since China probably still has a large, albeit heavily reduced, population, meaning that a Hub there could help supply us with labor, while also helping to protect the nearby Blue Zones.
Yay, we have Venusian tiberium!
And the craterscope offers a lot of intriguing possibilities, but is also extremely expensive.
We probably should build up the lunar infrastructure first.
Moreover, the possibility to build on Enterprise makes stage 5 of Tanagashima far less attractive, we should concentrate on Enterprise workshop for now.
And the craterscope offers a lot of intriguing possibilities, but is also extremely expensive.
We probably should build up the lunar infrastructure first.
Moreover, the possibility to build on Enterprise makes stage 5 of Tanagashima far less attractive, we should concentrate on Enterprise workshop for now.
This is the best argument I have heard so far.
However, I think we can afford a great many suborbital shuttles for the cost of one Planned City. The Himalaya BZ is in the mountains, so it just has to hold out until we can send in the Air Force along with reinforcements in suborbital shuttles. It's not optimal, but the sea route to Karachi is long and vulnerable, and I don't know if Oman has the military infrastructure to support a significant campaign.
- Location
- Fort Worth, TX
[X] Plan Sunrise
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- USA
[X] Plan Sunrise
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
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- Midwest, USA
[X] Plan Sunrise
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- alphen aan den rijn
[X] Plan Sunrise
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- Wall Gazing
At present Suborbital Shuttles Phase 1-3 will cost ~8 dice on average and 215 R. Assuming only 3 dice are assigned on the first turn of investment and they complete the first phase, if we rush them it would cost 240 R. If we invest the minimum 2 dice required to complete Phase 1 and were successful it would cost 210 R. Karachi Phase 1-4 will cost ~11 dice on average and 220 R. Not nearly that much of a difference, especially as we have Tiberium Dice that can be applied along with Infrastructure, negating the die difference.
Additionally, Phase 1-3 of Shuttles will provide 16 Logistics, Phase 1-4 of Karachi will provide 12. From those raw numbers alone it is better to go with Shuttles, however what BZ 18 needs isn't just the 'critical supplies' provided by the Shuttles but also the mass of goods from the other Blue Zones.
There is another benefit to Karachi Phase 1-4 aside from the Logistics and that is 8 Housing. That significant as it will provide temporary space for refugees from India and Iran to flee NOD and Tiberium, depriving the former of manpower. That, as you've mentioned, is a significant goal of our operations in general, and there is no alternative for those in India and Iran, aside from trekking up the largest mountains in the world for the safety of what is less a Blue Zone and more a fortress writ large. Further, taking Karachi will necessitate securing, or at least patrolling, the route up the Indus to BZ 18, thus limiting India's trade with Iran and therefore with Mehretu if they broker a truce with the Caravanserai, and it will restrict one of the two pathways into Northern Asia for India to funnel their Gana through.
I don't think we can reasonably finish Karachi Phase 1-5 in this plan. Even if it is technically possible, the dice expenditure would be a bit much for the two quarters we have available for investment (I am discounting Q3 for the monsoon season, and I think it is far too unlikely that there will be sufficient ships or combat drawdown by Q1) given the Regency War. I think a 7 Tib dice investment in Q2 2061, if we have the ships, combined with a follow on of 3-7 dice (depending how well the first one rolled and the severity of NOD's response) investment in Q4 of the same year to finish Phase 4, would allow us to make a secure foothold to tie BZ 18 into our economy. Everything else; the Intelligence, the restriction of NOD's movements and inter warlord trade, the drawing of refugees away from NOD control, Karachi acting as a magnet to draw heat off of BZ 18, and acting as a thorn in the side of Ibrahim and India are all solid back up reasons.
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- Outside the Box
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- She/Her
@sunrise The last Pardus mission was accidentally missing from the update. As it costs the same IP as the Ceres rover, and it gives us one last roll to find another Lunar surface mine for the main quest, please consider switching your Plan to doing the Pardus mission.
Mr. Mica
Capitalism cannot fix Global Warming.
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- Earth
Karachi is a daring but doable plan in peace time. During a war it is perhaps still doable, but it becomes more than daring. If the war is over soon, by all means do Karachi. If the war continues beyond deciding the current regent, it might make Karachi dangerous to attempt.
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Updated my plan from a ceres rover to the last Pardus mission.
Note that having recently completed multiple phases of a Planned City gives a 60% discount on the logistics costs of glacier mining. We definitely want to do some phases of that next plan to get our income out of the gutter, meaning it's either finishing Chicago or Karachi. And frankly, I'm sick of letting Nod India play Arsenel of Theocracy.
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- He/Him
I thought so too, for a while.
But: sea freight is amazingly efficient. It's the most cost-effective option by every metric, in no small part because it can exploit vast economies of scale in ways that railways, trucks and suborbital lifters just can't.
We can move the most vital supplies, of course, but we can't resupply or reinforce the Himalayas supplied solely by air and orbital lift, not if things go south--as they might very well when they border Krukov and whoever's in China and India.
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- Wall Gazing
It might, it did when we completed Mecca, but Mecca was designed as a Tib processing hub, like Chicago is. So while it'll probably do the same for Chicago, it might not for Karachi. That said Karachi is designed as a logistics hub, and acting as a base of operations to ship the products of Glacier Mines in RZ 3 to Mecca for processing is entirely within its remit and a whole lot closer than the currently preposed ones in the Congo River basin. So its not unreasonable that it would give a discount.
Edit: Plus it might need us to finish Karachi entirely to get that bonus and that is a bit too far in my opinion for this Plan. It is possible. We wouldn't need Free Dice for it. But, we would need to commit all the Tib dice and at least four of our infrastructure dice for two turns (with a break in the middle for the monsoon). And that might not be possible with the demands of the Regency War.
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- Mid-Atlantic
One thing to remember when looking at the map is that it doesn't show real world terrain features. North of India is where you find some of the world's most gigantic and forbidding mountain ranges; it is not easy to travel through them or make regular shipments of supplies.
Karachi, in and of itself, does not block off India's lines of access to the north and west. However, GDI asserting a zone of control through Pakistan up into BZ-18, and furthermore improving access to BZ-18 such that it can continue to expand out into the Yellow Zone belts around itself, will put pressure on those lines of access. The same transport corridor that Karachi exists to hold open is a transport wall from Nod's perspective, a long linear barrier they cannot easily cross.
Of course, this hinges on us being able to secure the area against the will of the surrounding Nod warlords, but if we can't do that, we have other problems anyway as soon as they decide to flex that muscle elsewhere.
A lot of the places you list are in fact Bintang's stomping grounds and are not at all "isolated" from Nod interference.
Also, they are gigantic island chains, and I'm pretty sure MARVs aren't amphibious.
The number of suborbital shuttle flights required to make up for the lack of a rail corridor to the interior is ridiculous.
If the basic capacity to support the campaign in principle did not exist, I don't think the military would even accept this as an option. The fact that they don't just laugh us out of the office when we talk about "Eastern Paris" suggests that the capability to make it happen exists in principle even if there is no assurance of total victory in practice.
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- He/It/Argh!
This would definitely be a case-by-case basis thing, as each area has different challenges and objectives.
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
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- Shetland
I wonder if we can persuade or bribe the Caravanserai to smuggle supplies to the Himalaya BZ.
On the contrary MARVs can be amphibious as many times as they can be orbitaly dropped... once.
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- Wall Gazing
I'm in favor of finishing off the Yellow Zone MARV hubs in the Americas. We've finished the RZ ones and YZ 10 and 11, but there is still one in YZ 9 and two in YZ 12. The ones in YZ 12 will be facing off against Stahl and would be a good step to restricting his combat abilities. Then maybe Australia, (RZ 8, along with YZ 7 and 6). I'm not as sold on the ones in the BZ. They do provide a lot of PS, but unless we really need it I'd rather do the ones in YZ and RZs first as they give additional mitigation and RpT. Plus the ideal for the BZ MARVs is they are never needed. Best way to make sure thats the case is to put our the hubs in places where they are directly fighting NOD first.
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- USA
Aren't the Marvs obsolete now?
We should probably get to work on whatever will replace them.
We should probably get to work on whatever will replace them.
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- ?????????
Obsolete isn't the word. More that there are new techs that can upgrade it to be badder than it currently is.
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- USA
Maybe not obsolete but requiring a complete overhaul apparently.
I'd wait till we research the new harvesting tendrils though. If those don't radically change stuff up I'll be very surprised.