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Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

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Lightwhispers said:
There is no reason *not* to do the Battleship shipyard project first for Escort Carriers. It's cheaper in every way.
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That is because it is a part time shipyard. :p

MightbeaMimic said:
So Q4 Karachi has Cyclones. Sounds like a great time for a naval landing
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Wow, so apparently people have discovered that the tropics gets cyclones. Who knew?

Let's see how frequent they are.
Why is there a specific page for this? 2021 North Indian Ocean cyclone season - Wikipedia
So there were two cyclones last year in the Arabian Sea. And only one anywhere near Pakistan.
\
(The little squiggly thing in the Arabian Sea is a tropical depression. Which is basically a proto-cyclone that never spun up to anything more than a bit of rain.)

But that was just one season. Is it typical behaviour?
According to North Indian Ocean tropical cyclone - Wikipedia: "On average only five to six tropical cyclones forms in the basin. Tropical cyclones form in the months of March to June and October to December with peaks at May and November. Of which most of these storms form in the Bay of Bengal."
NB: The Bay of Bengal is the opposite side of India.
Most of 6 means that 1-2 cyclones in the Arabian Sea matches up.

"In the Arabian Sea, most storms dissipate offshore without making landfall, but a significant number of tropical cyclones also impact the west coast, particularly the states of Gujarat and Maharashtra. The remaining 11 percent makes landfall in either the Arabian Peninsula, Horn of Africa or Pakistan."
So a 4% chance of one actually making landfall in Pakistan.

Checking an alternate source, we have: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/216791174_A_Climatology_of_Arabian_Sea_Cyclonic_Storms
Their first sentence in the abstract: "On average 1-2 tropical cyclones form over the Arabian Sea each year, and few of these storms are intense enough to be classified as very severe or super cyclonic storms."

Conclusion:
We'd have to be actually trying to be hit by a cyclone for it to significantly hamper our plans.
 
HousePet said:
That is because it is a part time shipyard. :p


Wow, so apparently people have discovered that the tropics gets cyclones. Who knew?

Let's see how frequent they are.
Why is there a specific page for this? 2021 North Indian Ocean cyclone season - Wikipedia
So there were two cyclones last year in the Arabian Sea. And only one anywhere near Pakistan.
\
(The little squiggly thing in the Arabian Sea is a tropical depression. Which is basically a proto-cyclone that never spun up to anything more than a bit of rain.)

But that was just one season. Is it typical behaviour?
According to North Indian Ocean tropical cyclone - Wikipedia: "On average only five to six tropical cyclones forms in the basin. Tropical cyclones form in the months of March to June and October to December with peaks at May and November. Of which most of these storms form in the Bay of Bengal."
NB: The Bay of Bengal is the opposite side of India.
Most of 6 means that 1-2 cyclones in the Arabian Sea matches up.

"In the Arabian Sea, most storms dissipate offshore without making landfall, but a significant number of tropical cyclones also impact the west coast, particularly the states of Gujarat and Maharashtra. The remaining 11 percent makes landfall in either the Arabian Peninsula, Horn of Africa or Pakistan."
So a 4% chance of one actually making landfall in Pakistan.

Checking an alternate source, we have: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/216791174_A_Climatology_of_Arabian_Sea_Cyclonic_Storms
Their first sentence in the abstract: "On average 1-2 tropical cyclones form over the Arabian Sea each year, and few of these storms are intense enough to be classified as very severe or super cyclonic storms."

Conclusion:
We'd have to be actually trying to be hit by a cyclone for it to significantly hamper our plans.
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This is really informative for current IRL cyclone behavior, but remember that Tib has vastly fucked over the environment and that in-quest there will be both more and bigger cyclones than shown here.
 
Alright, so Carrier conversions, and everything going on with it.
These are the scenarios.

1. Navy keeps using fleet carriers for escorts, and does not lose much of the convoys.
2. Navy gets its first batch of escorts in two years and then starts having fleet carriers available to play escort.
3. Navy gets emergency conversions now, and can support major operations, but will lose sailors and potentially convoys due to having marginal at best escort assets.

3 is probably the one that has people most in a tizzy, but probably should not. Because the part about losing sailors and convoys? That is about when they are also trying to do some major operation, like, say, kicking down the Indian Warlord's front door and dropping a planned city in their lap. That is a big project, with big distortions in the supply chains that rapidly complicates the Navy's life, and starts meaning that they have to run weaksauce convoys.

Now, if you do decide to build the conversions, they are not going to be particularly good flattops. But they are also not going to be useless millstones. An extra dozen Orcas running day operations can be a big help, especially if it means you can take a carrier off a route, like, say, America to Africa, and instead move it to a route like running supplies to Gulf Operations, or supporting transits between New Zealand and Japan, Russia, or Korea.
And with the conversions, they are also going to be something that gets better with age. This was never something that the Navy wanted, and never something that they put much effort into studying. But the longer you have them, the more time their crews (if nobody else) will put into making them work for the navy.
 
ninjakirito6 said:
This is really informative for current IRL cyclone behavior, but remember that Tib has vastly fucked over the environment and that in-quest there will be both more and bigger cyclones than shown here.
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We have no other data to go on.
It is equally likely that the changes to the climate have reduced the number of cyclones in the area.
And since Ithillid seems to be leaning towards the current behaviour of the monsoon, I don't see why we should assume similar doesn't apply to all non-ion storm weather.
 
HousePet said:
We have no other data to go on.
It is equally likely that the changes to the climate have reduced the number of cyclones in the area.
And since Ithillid seems to be leaning towards the current behaviour of the monsoon, I don't see why we should assume similar doesn't apply to all non-ion storm weather.
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@Ithillid are monsoon season worse or better in quest in the indian ocean?
 
So I've been watching the thread for a while now and all this talk has been harshing my vibe. So I've decided to go my own way. We need to up the mood.

You see, it's too late for the navy. All those build times are in months and that, just like, too long away maaaaan. So I decided we should go for some *real* change, for real strong muscular people.

[X] Plan No Steps Forward (Because we'll be flying)
-[X] Infra 6/6 +1 free dice 125R
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 4+5) 232/550 4 dice 80R 72%
--[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 3) 159/300 3 dice 45R 99% (3/5.5 Phase 4)
-[X] Heavy Ind 5/5 dice 120R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 5) 232/300 2 die 40R 100% (2/4.5 Phase 6)
--[X] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 118/640 2 dice 40R (2/6.5 median)
--[X] Isolinear Chip Development (New) 0/60 1 die 40R 90%
-[X] L&CI 5/5 dice 100R
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 378/640 2 dice 40R 17%
--[X] Medical Supplies Factories 0/225 3 dice 60R 60%
-[X] Agri 4/4 dice 50R
--[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 2+3) 3/280 3 dice 30R 23% (Phase 2 98%)
--[X] Freeze Dried Food Plants 73/200 1 die 20R 13%
-[X] Tiberium 7/7 +1 admin dice 145R
--[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 7+8) 183/300 6 dice 120R 97% (6/8 Phase 9)
--[X] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 5) 63/100 1 die 15R 100% (Stage 6 18%)
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factory (Dandong) 45/70 1 admin die 10R 90%
-[X] Orb Ind 6/6 dice 100R
--[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 4) 456/765 4 dice 80R 71%
--[X] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 9+10) 41/170 2 dice 20R 82% (Stage 9 100%)
-[X] Services 2/5 dice 40R
--[X] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters (New) 0/160 2 dice 40R 60%
-[X] Military 8/8 +6 free +1 admin dice 285R
--[X] Tactical Airborne Laser Deployment (New) 0/210 3 dice 60R 75%
--[X] Apollo Wingmen Drones (New) 0/210 3 dice 60R 75%
--[X] Firehawk Wingmen Drones (New) 0/450 6 dice 120R 63%
--[X] Plasma Warhead Factory (Phase 1+2) (New) 0/90 2 die 20R 39% (Phase 1 98%)
--[X] Neural Interface System Refits (Talons) 83/105 1 Admin die 25R 94%
-[X] Bureau 4/4 dice
--[X] Administrative Assistance x2 4 die auto

965R/965R

Why be a downer, when we can be an upper! We focus everything we got on the air force. We build it in a quarter and everything rolls off the factory line and into the war effort immediately in 3 months. Rule the skies, like Britain but for air instead of the waves. The clouds? The clouds.

There's an extra die put into YZ harvesting, just so we could spend all the resources this turn. Money, maaaan. You can't take it with you so you gotta spend it all.

(With apologies to Derpmind for misusing the plan title. Also more apologies for Derpmind's help in editing it.)


[X] Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet
 
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I've edited my plan according to this post. Specifically, I've switched a die of YZ Fortress Towns to do the Tick Development, and I've switched from doing the Battleship Yards to doing the Merchantman Carrier Conversions. Here's a copy of my plan, for reference:

[X] Plan One Step Forward
-[X] Infra 6/6 +2 free dice 145R
--[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 4+5) 232/550 4 dice 80R 72%
--[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 3) 159/300 3 dice 45R 99% (3/5.5 Phase 4)
--[X] Tick Rapid Digger System Development (New) 0/40 1 die 20R 100%
-[X] Heavy Ind 5/5 dice 120R
--[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plants (Phase 5) 232/300 2 die 40R 100% (2/4.5 Phase 6)
--[X] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 118/640 2 dice 40R (2/6.5 median)
--[X] Isolinear Chip Development (New) 0/60 1 die 40R 90%
-[X] L&CI 5/5 dice 100R
--[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 378/640 2 dice 40R 17%
--[X] Medical Supplies Factories 0/225 3 dice 60R 60%
-[X] Agri 4/4 dice 50R
--[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 2+3) 3/280 3 dice 30R 23% (Phase 2 98%)
--[X] Freeze Dried Food Plants 73/200 1 die 20R 13%
-[X] Tiberium 7/7 +1 admin dice 135R
--[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 7+8) 183/300 5 dice 100R 76% (Phase 7 100%)
--[X] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 5) 63/100 1 die 15R 100% (Stage 6 18%)
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factory (Dandong) 45/70 1 admin die 10R 90%
--[X] Railgun Harvester Factory (Porto) 0/70 1 die 10R 85%
-[X] Orb Ind 6/6 dice 100R
--[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 4) 456/765 4 dice 80R 71%
--[X] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 9+10) 41/170 2 dice 20R 82% (Stage 9 100%)
-[X] Services 2/5 dice 40R
--[X] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters (New) 0/160 2 dice 40R 60%
-[X] Military 8/8 +5 free +1 admin dice 275R
--[X] Tactical Airborne Laser Deployment (New) 0/210 3 dice 60R 75%
--[X] Apollo Wingmen Drones (New) 0/210 3 dice 60R 75%
--[X] Plasma Warhead Factory (Phase 1) (New) 0/90 1 die 10R 52%
--[X] Frigates (Quonset Point) (New) 0/300 4 dice 80R 64%
--[X] Merchantman Carrier Conversions (High Commitments) (New) 0/200 2 dice 40R 23%
--[X] Neural Interface System Refits (Talons) 83/105 1 Admin die 25R 94%
-[X] Bureau 4/4 dice
--[X] Administrative Assistance x2 4 die auto

965R/935R + 25R reserve 7/7 Free Dice

[X] Plan No Steps Forward (Because we'll be flying)

Approval voting meme serious business air plan, due to its clear vision of our priorities and needs. ✈️
 
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[X] Plan No Steps Forward (Because we'll be flying)

[X] Plan One Step Forward

Fuck yes. I am all for the No Steps forward plan. Who needs a navy? Not our logistics that's for sure. We will bury them in air frames.
 
[X] Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet

Right. This one works for me now especially after what OP said.

Edit: Oh for fuck's sake. I'll be back for another set of voting later.
 
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Derpmind said:
I've edited my plan according to this post. Specifically, I've switched a die of YZ Fortress Towns to do the Tick Development, and I've switched from doing the Battleship Yards to doing the Merchantman Carrier Conversions. Here's a copy of my plan, for reference:
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And just like that you got my vote.

[X] Plan One Step Forward
[X] Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet
[X] Plan Shipyards, Tech and Industry
 
Prime 2.0 said:
Eastern Paris was something we had to commit to in the first place because it made it possible for our current navy to deal with via the element of surprise, but also and more importantly because it strangled the export of gana before they had 1-2 years of sending more out at "we don't have to remotely hide it" levels.
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The idea that a 14+die project would manage to go unnoticed enough to achieve strategic surprise is laughable to me. Yes, it's possible that NOD might fail to react in time, as was pointed out about some of GDI's actions in one of the recent updates, but that would be due to NOD failing, not due to us succeeding.
And yes, it would likely reduce the export of gana. The serious reasons for doing Karachi are not something I was significantly contesting. What was being contested was how seriously the problems involved were being taken.
HousePet said:
That is because it is a part time shipyard. :p
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All our shipyards do double duty with building and maintaining ships. This just allows this shipyard to build and support carriers as well as battleships, because we're not building many battleships, so there are slips lying idle.
 
So now that things have been clarified, how about voting for [ ] Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet, so we can do Chicago things? Just for me? I'd appreciate it, and it helps plan goals.
 
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