Remove ads

Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition

Reader mode
[X] Plan: Starting our Strategic Area Defence Networks and giving the Navy Hulls

Infrastructure 6/6 Dice 105 R
-[X] Yellow Zone Fortress Towns (Phase 4+5) 232/550 (2 Dice, 40 R) (Phase 4, 2/3.5 median on Phase 5)
-[X] Rail Network Construction Campaigns (Phase 3) 159/300 (3 Dice, 45 R) (99% chance; 3/5.5 median to Phase 4)
-[X] Tick Rapid Digger System Development 0/40 (1 Die, 20 R) (100% chance)

Heavy Industry 5/5 Dice + 1 Free Dice 95 R
-[X] Continuous Cycle Fusion Plant (Phase 5+6) 232/600 (2 Dice, 40 R) (~100% chance Phase 5)
-[X] Nuuk Heavy Robotics Foundry (Phase 3) 118/600 (3 Dice, 45 R) (3/6 median)
-[X] Isolinear Chip Development (1 Die, 40 R) (90% chance)

Light and Chemical Industry 5/5 Dice 100 R
-[X] Reykjavik Myomer Macrospinner (Phase 4) 378/640 (2 Dice, 40 R) (17% chance)
-[X] Medical Supplies Factories 0/225 (3 Dice, 60 R) (60% chance)

Agriculture 4/4 Dice 50 R
-[X] Freeze Dried Food Plants 73/200 (1 Die, 20 R) (13% chance)
-[X] Blue Zone Aquaponics Bays (Phase 2+3) 3/280 (3 Dice, 30 R) (98% chance of Phase 2, 23% chance of Phase 3)

Tiberium 7/7 Dice 115 R
-[X] Yellow Zone Tiberium Harvesting (Phase 7) 183/300 (2 Dice, 40 R) (97% chance)
-[X] Liquid Tiberium Power Cell Deployment (Phase 1) (2 Dice, 40 R) (99% chance)
-[X] Railgun Harvester Factory (Dandong) 45/70 (1 Die, 10 R) (~100% chance)
-[X] Railgun Harvester Factory (Porto) 0/70 (1 Die, 10 R) (85% chance)
-[X] Intensification of Green Zone Harvesting (Stage 5+6) 63/200 (1 Die, 15 R) (Stage 5, 18% chance of Stage 6)

Orbital 6/6 Dice 110 R
-[X] GDSS Enterprise (Phase 4) 456/765 (5 Dice, 100 R) (96.5% chance, median outcome 114/1535 to Phase 5)
-[X] Orbital Cleanup (Stage 9) 41/85 (1 Die, 10 R) (98% chance, 13% chance of Stage 10)

Services 3/5 Dice 55 R
-[X] Neural Interfaced Operating Theaters 0/160 (2 Dice, 40 R) (60% chance)
-[X] Hallucinogen Development 0/60 (1 Die, 15 R) (88% chance)

Military 8/8 Dice + 6 Free Dice + 2 AA Dice 310 R
-[X] Advanced ECCM Development 0/40 (1 Dice, 20 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Stealth Disruptor Development 0/40 (1 Dice, 15 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Inferno Gel Development 0/40 (1 Dice, 10 R) (100% chance)
-[X] Strategic Area Defense Networks (Phase 1) 0/350 (2 Dice, 40 R) (0% chance)
-[X] Neural Interface System Refits (Talons) 83/105 (AA Die, 25 R) (94% chance)
-[X] Shark Class Frigate Shipyard (Melbourne) (4+AA Dice, 100 R) (86% chance)
-[X] Merchantman Carrier Conversions (High Commitment) 0/200 (3 Dice, 60 R) (81% chance)

Bureaucracy 4/4 Dice
-[X] Administrative Assistance x2 (4 Dice)
 
One Autumn Leaf said:
Okay so last night I looked at this plan and was like wtf. Now I am looking at it with fresh new eyes and...well I will go down step by step.

Infra: The plan does Fortress towns and Rails...but it only completes one phase of both. Meaning that all this plan will most likely end up doing is completing the forts and rails we were already building rather than build more to support the troops. The other plans at least attempt to two phases of each. The Tick Dev is acceptable(though not idea) as it is something that is stated to help with building in the future. However the rest of the infra portion is insufficient to support our offensives.

HI: This portion of the plan is also something that tries to help in the war effort. It does focus on power and cap goods but gets bogged down in developments. In the case of Isolinear it's acceptable as Isolinear is cap goods and cap goods help us but the CBL laser development is unnecessary as all these developments won't be funded by us.

Agri: I have no complaints except for the security reviews. I find that those are unnecessary right now but that is a small complaint

LCI: Again no complaints but Bergen could be done properly at a later time rather than half hearted attempts it right now

Orbital: It's fine. I have no real complaints

Tiberium: Acceptable though again dev is unnecessary here

Sevices: the problem here is that there is a decent chance that this health option fails and we go into the negatives on health. That is not something that I find acceptable. I fully expect more refugees to come next turn and I don't like the plan betting on health

Military: This plan's military portion is just not good. The SADNs are unnecessary. I know it was stated that it could be useful for defending Chicago and so on but the plan fails to properly focus on that. A 2% chance of completion means that the plan will continue to be an investment next turn. The plan's ship builds have a decent chance of no completing meaning that Karachi 2061 may as well be doomed(I am not supporting of that but it bears noting). The only high point of this part is Wingman completion at 75%.

TLDR: The plan is dev heavy, insufficiently supports the troops in regards to it's infra investments and has a military investment that's kinda all over the place.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Points on infra- fortress town has a chance at 2 phases and without free dice there is no way to push further but right now mil and HI need the free dice. By not spending free dice on HI you are undercutting the backbone that makes everything move. We don't have enough energy for next turn and run into cap goods flow for the next few turns if we take any damage without putting free dice there.

HI- CBL laser mentions improvements for some of our current industry in terms of efficiency- that means either more output (cap goods and consumer goods) or less input (energy) both which are major needs. It is also cheap. I have gone over above why we need investment here to cover future spending of energy and cap goods. The other side is the free dice investment should allow us to slam all the free dice into mil spending next turn, without free dice spending here we do not have that option without going to really thin margins on energy and cap goods which puts us at risk of disruption

LCI- Finishing Reyjavik helps smooth the cap goods and energy situation to ensure we have enough to absorb damage, that leaves 1 dice left over so starting Bergen which locks better fusion plants under HI and has a chance at finishing phase 1 seems like a good idea here.

Tiberium- Just because we are fighting against NOD does not mean we should forgot that Tiberium is still waging war on us, and mutation is up to d5 reduction now so rolling out tendril dev for improvements helps fight the 2nd war.

Mil- SADN we need these sooner than later but cant spare the dice to push them out in a single turn at high percentages. We already had attempted strikes at infrastructure (Gideon) and that will not be the last and we cannot count on getting lucky with battle rolls to intercept them. For Karachi the difference is I am building out with the plan of Mid 2061 instead of late 2060/early 2061. And right now we cannot afford overkill with dice being a very limiting factor.
 
[X] Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet

So glad i waited till i woke up to vote. We finally got a department head (plan maker) that actually realizes that we need to stop waiting for the wunderwaffen, and build what we need now. And yes i am talking about the carrier conversions.
 
[X] Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet

Simply put, we are at war.
We need more escort carriers now, not tomorrow or any other time.
Converting cargo ships into escort carriers is certainly not ideal, but it is still better than having no additional ships to relieve our fleet carriers of the task of escorting convoys so that they can do something more useful in this war.
 
[X] Plan One Step Forward

I, frankly, do not consider current winning plan to be particularly terrible from "how to respond to the immediate issues" perspective, but I have no one iota of desire to try to push Karachi through under current circumstances. I disagree with long-term intent behind it.
 
Last edited:
Crazycryodude said:
If you want to postpone Karachi why isn't your plan actually trying to postpone Karachi is my biggest question I guess. Yeah we could try to do the renegotiation action next turn but then the argument has to be had all over again, I think that if we're going to postpone Karachi we need that question settled this turn one way or the other. If we don't postpone, we need that known for sure so we can scramble correctly over the next 6-9 months. If we do postpone, we also need to know that for sure because it really changes our naval build strategy. Regardless of which way we eventually come down, either call needs to be made this turn IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
...Postponing Karachi is literally in the name of my plan. Did you mistake mine for someone else's?

Drahcir said:
[X] Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet

So glad i waited till i woke up to vote. We finally got a department head (plan maker) that actually realizes that we need to stop waiting for the wunderwaffen, and build what we need now. And yes i am talking about the carrier conversions.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Building the "as-designed" escort carriers is not "waiting for wunderwaffen". It's recognizing that we will need at least a year's worth of exertion from the Navy to work on Karachi, and even after construction is completed it will expand the Navy's commitments. And the converted carriers are effectively defenseless if they are attacked by air, because they only carry Orcas.

Granted, if I were given a promise that we will not attempt Karachi until the Regency War is over and frigates have started being produced, I would be okayish with doing the conversions. But I don't think that can be reliably promised.
 
[X] Plan A Broader Step Forwards
[X] Plan One Step Forward
[X] Plan No think, Just do
[X] Plan One Step Forward + Battleship Yards
 
Last edited:
Just want to poke the thread about getting the zone armour for other military departments within the next year or so. It's gonna be very important for india specifically for both our ground troops and the navy (don't forget the amphibious boarding bioweapons), and massively helps our offensive elsewhere by letting our mainline push into tib heavy zones and our Zone Troopers make deep red zone strikes more often by freeing them up and using our new deeper offensive line as a leaping point (said as such by themselves).
Edit: change of plans
 
Last edited:
@Simon_Jester I was looking up the climate of Pakistan and I found a wrinkle in the retreating-monsoon that might interest you. It seems that if you arrive in Q4 the monsoon *is* retreating from Karachi itself, but that just means that the tropical cyclones are moving into the area. We know that Tiberium-earth has a bad case of climate change, and has had to extend the Categorization of hurricanes and tornadoes because of the extreme numbers of Cat 5 events of both. In other words, between 15 September to 15 November, and 15 May to 15 July, Karachi is on the line to be hit by huge cyclones, of enormous size and power. The odds of any given hurricane in the Arabian sea heading it's way are about 30%, so if there are 3-4 cyclones in a season, odds are good that one of them will hit the construction or worse, the over-the-beach landings.
 
[X] Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet

I am agnostic on Karachi, and I'm perfectly willing to cancel despite our Plan goals. The enemy gets a vote, too.

We know that the Navy is the weakest link. The most likely cause of Steel Vanguard grinding to a halt is a coordinated Nod attack on our Logistics. We need to build up the Navy so that can't happen.

A frigate is not a carrier. They have different roles. A frigate cannot launch planes to target a Nod squadron four hundred miles away. Even a complete amateur's examination of the Battle of the Atlantic reveals that carrier air power is very very important to securing the sealanes. We want frigates and carriers, not just frigates.

We also want carriers as soon as possible. Yes, conversions are worse than proper warships. Yes, the Navy has good reasons to dislike them. But they can be produced much more quickly than escort carriers, so we should build them.

In the future, we need to make a stronger distinction between projects with a great deal of lead time and projects that we can stamp out quickly. With the benefit of hindsight, we can say that we should have been frontloading naval projects while delaying projects that we could complete rapidly by throwing enough resources at them. If you can desperately build apartments in a matter of weeks, then apartments are a somewhat lower priority, while you can't get proper carriers in less than a year no matter what you do.

Some projects are "forgiving" in the sense that you can make up for earlier mistakes by spending enough resources. Other projects are not. Naval building is clearly in the "not" category, and we should remember that going forward.

The Ground Forces currently have Extremely High confidence. Unless they have badly screwed up, I don't think we need to worry about them. The Navy and the Air Force are the main source of our concerns, and we need to frontload Navy precisely because it takes more time to build ships. If the Air Force needs more support next quarter, we can throw dice at them and rapidly build planes; we can't do the same for the Navy.

Cursix said:
Just want to poke the thread about getting the zone armour for other military departments within the next year or so. It's gonna be very important for india specifically for both our ground troops and the navy (don't forget the amphibious boarding bioweapons), and massively helps our offensive elsewhere by letting our mainline push into tib heavy zones and our Zone Troopers make deep red zone strikes more often by freeing them up and using our new deeper offensive line as a leaping point (said as such by themselves).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, but Ground Forces are currently very confident, and I don't think Zone Armour takes that long to make. I'd rather deal with our weaknesses before we reinforce our strengths.

Perhaps next quarter, or the quarter after? I think we're more focused on Yellow Zones than Red right now, and while Zone Armour would be very valuable it isn't essential to our current operations.
 
Void Stalker said:
3 dice a turn for 4 turns gets most of the shipyards done and then a couple dice extra to finish whichever ones did not finish off. And it means that we can get a proper navy for the next phase in a few years
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
And the sharks, wingmen, airborne lasers, masterdons, SADN, ASAT, OSRCT, URLS, shell plants, ablat and any surprises from the war?
And that's just from the military we have other things that need dice, power and cap goods.

EDIT: I forgot about zone armour
 
Last edited:
One Autumn Leaf said:
Why? It's not like we won't do it. It is just stating that we can move it to the next year/the beginning of the next fyp.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1) Because finding the budget to do it in 2062 will be difficult. The budget will be lower, and we'll be strongly pressured to use our Tiberium dice on income-gaining activities, not on building planned cities. Easier to do it in '61.

2) Because we promised, and Treasury's reputation for keeping promises is valuable. The only one of our promises that I really want to renegotiate is the Stored Food promise, because the strategic context in which that promise was made no longer makes sense and we need the food production to help the refugees.

3) Because even if it turns out we can't do it, if the naval situation is still too bad in mid-2061... Well, we can make that decision then. I refuse to say now that we won't be able to do it then, until I have further evidence one way or the other.

The actual building itself, assuming that we don't make it in Q1 or Q2, would be done in the winter seasons. No one is building in that region during the Monsoon season cause...well pretty evident why building in a monsoon is a bad idea. Pakistan has a Monsoon season during July - September and a retreating Monsoon season during Oct and November. Meaning that the best place to start is in December which is the end of Q4 and no amount of dice is letting us shock a city in that time
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because, and @HousePet already covered this at some length, that's not how the "retreating monsoon" season works. Unless their research is wrong, rains largely stop in Pakistan- not necessarily entirely but largely, to the point where it's "normal weather" and not "holy shit this is unusually rainy."

"Retreating monsoon" means the monsoon rains are retreating from west to east towards the Bay of Bengal. Pakistan is on the extreme west end of the Indian subcontinental region; it is where the rains retreat from first. Q4 may not be perfect weather for massive construction, but it will start out more or less adequate and only get better over time.

Furthermore, from past statements by @Ithillid , we will be fulfilling our promise if we actually invest the dice and Resources to do the construction in 2061, even if the outcome of the project is "troops are still there and construction is ongoing but the resources are fully allocated to finish the job."

So, so far as I know and understand, it is valid for us to push enough dice into the project to make enough Progress to clear Phase 4 in 2061Q4, and that fulfills our promises and is not somehow negated by the monsoon season being a thing.

...

(EDIT: It was after this point that I looked up and saw Vehrec's post about Q4 being Pakistani Hurricane Season. More on that on the next page)

...

Also. Um. Ahem.

Hang on, gonna have a bit of a manic episode here. I just realized something. Eheh.

en.wikipedia.org

Nuuk - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

I mean shit, we just put seven dice into building a giant robotics factory in Greenland between the months of January and March. In frickin' Greenland! Nuuk! Eighty kilometers south of the Arctic Circle! On January 1, there would have been less than five hours of daylight! For all three months, the average daily high temperature would be around five degrees Centigrade below zero! Forty days of snow in the quarter!

WINTER IN GREENLAND!

I don't think it even registered on us that we were building a giant factory (which is even now churning out Capital Goods on a modest scale) in Greenland in winter.

And yet... here we are!

...

I'm not saying I would go out of my way to build railroads in Pakistan during the worst of the monsoon season.

But the retreating monsoon?

Ahahahah. We've dealt with worse.

...

Sorry. Just, ah, that just hit me.

We just built a giant factory in winter in Greenland.
 
Last edited:
[X] Plan I Refuse To Give Up On Karachi Yet
[X] Plan Shipyards, Tech and Industry

I hope we develop the Tendrils and Rail Gun Munitions soon.

//Edit:
[X] Plan We Need More Ships
[X] Plan One Step Forward
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top