While I do not agree with @mayboro here, I find you, @Taliys, to be extremely out of line. Not only are there other posters who were suggesting going far further than mayboro here, but if your only argument is of accusing the other to be a nazi out of the blue, you kinda failed at your argumentation fully and utterly.
Attempting to Fulfill the Plan: GDI Edition
- Pronouns
- He/It/Argh!
Overall, that could have gone better and it could have gone worse.
Two things stand out to me, as something to look into:
First, NOD were able to walk into blue zones twice. We may need to see if we can do anything about that.
Second, the Steel Talons are still active everywhere. So it doesn't look like we can assume that Ground Forces confidence means that they can cover for the Steel Talons. If we can deliver something for the Steel Talons, that would be helpful.
Two things stand out to me, as something to look into:
First, NOD were able to walk into blue zones twice. We may need to see if we can do anything about that.
Second, the Steel Talons are still active everywhere. So it doesn't look like we can assume that Ground Forces confidence means that they can cover for the Steel Talons. If we can deliver something for the Steel Talons, that would be helpful.
- Location
- Outside the Box
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Fortress towns and more YZ/GZ pushes will help make it harder, although I do want to note that I think only Stahl can really claim to have defeated us in a Blue Zone. Krukov was looking at a draw before we stole one of his wunderwaffen, I don't think he gets much credit with the rest of the Brotherhood for getting a bunch of his air force blown up in a repulsed raid that ended with being mugged from space.
All of the things you hate are what make this an actual quest that people want to play.
Maybe it is logically inconsistent for them to be able to mass armies and fleets without getting hit by orbital death rays. I don't know, but I also don't care. The Quest where every Nod offensive is deleted by orbital death rays would be over pretty quickly.
The Quest specifically addresses how Nod suffers from major educational problems; they have a shortage of trained scientists, technicians, and specialists, which is one reason why we have better industry. Their technological advantages come from Kane, who has access to alien science. Are there probably other logical inconsistencies which I could find if I looked for them? Sure. But, again, as long as the story is good I don't care.
A good number of posters are salty about the last few battles, and I think this is largely unjustified. The Russian front is at best a draw for Nod, and with the loss of a Varyag I would go so far as to call it a qualified defeat. The Middle Eastern front involves Mehretu fighting another branch of Nod, Reynaldo thinks that Western European NOD is going to get stomped, and the only front where Nod is actually winning involves more skirmishes than pitched battles.
No one complaining seems to notice North America, where Gideon is suffering defeat after defeat. Have we beaten him so often that people simply take it for granted?
- Location
- Somewhere between the stars
Command and conquer is the story about GDI and NOD.
And if you can't really accept that NOD is like half of that story, i struggle to see why your even reading this quest.
And like, we've been incredible lucky this time, so getting average results isn't bad.
And if you can't really accept that NOD is like half of that story, i struggle to see why your even reading this quest.
And like, we've been incredible lucky this time, so getting average results isn't bad.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I would like to note that when debating a point, should you start to get frustrated: take a break. Go make a cup of tea, grab a packet of crisps, watch the Book of Boba Fett.
The moment you start throwing insults or insinuating unpleasant things about people or resorted to threats, you've lost the argument. People don't want to hear it and it just proves you've ran out of arguments beyond slinging insults.
The moment you start throwing insults or insinuating unpleasant things about people or resorted to threats, you've lost the argument. People don't want to hear it and it just proves you've ran out of arguments beyond slinging insults.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I think that just comes down to further phases of LRSS, if we get that, and Stealth Disruptors, and maybe that backup drone.
They're not infiltrating disguised as part of the population, they're going bump in the night. The answer is more and tighter surveillance.
Mastodon, also finishing the Neural Interface refits.
I think that's the only things really left on the table for them at this point. Everything else needs development time that, between everything else we must now deploy, we just don't have the time to spare.
@HousePet Are you referring to the Order's raids on our labs, or Krukov and Stahl's attacks?
Because if all of them are included, Nod hit Blue Zone targets four times: twice via commando raids - which these measures would help against - and twice via conventional assaults. Krukov was brazen enough to attack a BZ target with his massive air fleet, and Stahl did a Stahl.
I'm not sure what a good countermeasure for Varyags would be, depends on where they attack (possibility of no friendly naval support), but Tactical Airborne Lasers are a start. Ground Forces Zone Armor should help us against Stahl's infantry lasers.
OSRCTs could also thwart future Order attacks, being rapid-response Zone Armored forces and all.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Personally I'm referring to Stahl and the Rememberancers. Krukov's about as subtle as we are.
We also just developed Plasma Warheads, which might give our AAMs enough oomph to inconvenience a Varyag.
Zone Armor still feels firmly in 'After the Navy and the Air Force get sorted' at the moment.
Last edited:
I genuinely forgot.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Eh...
We can't make it water-tight, but if we can get our hands on some anti-stealth security drones or something like that we can tighten the net still further. Make it difficult to get in, and more difficult still to get away cleanly.
- Location
- USA
If possible I'd like to fit one in just to take the edge off our special forces.
They are in the red zones and are probably under heavier attacks than normal.
Probably not possible but... they could really use it I imagine.
Getting any significant part of our ground forces in power armor is a huge project, and one that will take time to spool up even after we are "done" with building a factory.
I honestly doubt building one factory now would let us see any impact for an year afterwards at the very least.
I would actually prefer to fully finish a myomer factory up to get all the discounts, take the research project we got from NOD to improve our zone armor, and then pour a lot of resources into it to get the factories done in a sane amount of time. Realistically speaking I am talking about next plan with this.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
...Hang on, there's a discrepancy.
This section seems to indicate that Irvan's only connection to the outside world was via radio:
Why was there not a landline to Irvan? If there had been one there could have been automated check-ins every second or so, with cryptographic signatures so they couldn't be falsified.
(Unless Nod has quantum bullshit computers that can break modern cryptographic schemes...)
This section seems to indicate that Irvan's only connection to the outside world was via radio:
But this section on Yellow Zone Power Grid Extension, in Q1 2052, indicates that landline communications are a practical option for us in Yellow/Green Zones, let alone Blue Zones.
Why was there not a landline to Irvan? If there had been one there could have been automated check-ins every second or so, with cryptographic signatures so they couldn't be falsified.
(Unless Nod has quantum bullshit computers that can break modern cryptographic schemes...)
We want to get the Zone Armor rollout started this plan, or the added stress on ZOCOM is going to severely hamper our ability to expand our tiberium extraction and abatement efforts.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Even covering our own major cities is Phase 3 of a rather large project, so... dunno. Not saying 'no,' but it's gonna be a while.
If we only had the Navy to worry about, we'd find room to squeeze in another round of Shell Plants pretty quick. Shipyard expansion's going to be a continuous ongoing need for the next several turns, as it was when we build the Governor yards back in the Second Plan.
The problem is also the immediate crisis-level need to expand the Air Force so it doesn't get worn down to a nub by attrition- wingman drones being a project to do this- and to establish strategic defense networks to harden our most vital installations against strategic attacks that could cripple our economy on a global scale.
At the start of Tib War III, Nod controlled significantly more land (then Yellow Zones) than GDI did. GDI's Blue Zones were indeed richer, but not necessarily more heavily populated, because the Yellow Zones included land that covers huge parts of the world's surface area and many very large centers of population (e.g. India).
Then Tib War III happened. In particular, the Scrin attacked. And they concentrated their attacks on GDI's large, dense cities protected by sonic anti-tiberium systems that the Scrin correctly saw as threats. And these attacks caused vast amounts of damage.
GDI's already-mobilized and numerous global military succeeded in defeating the Scrin. But in this war, much of GDI's existing industrial base was destroyed, including virtually all electronics production. Things were so bad in 2050 that things like "manufacture new clothing for everyone" or "make frickin' aggregate for concrete pours" were difficult and we had to do significant projects just to get those things up and running.
That was literally ten years ago.
Meanwhile, Nod has lost a lot of Yellow Zone territory to expanding Red Zones... but that doesn't mean it's lost as many people. People can become refugees. it is likely that much of Nod's population has had to relocate into shrinking strips of Yellow Zones, where they are fed and sustained by Nod's versions of our power plant and aquaponics infrastructure (including, presumably, lots of tiberium-fueled power plants).
Nod has lots of people because Nod controlled more of the Earth's surface than we did fifteen years ago, and the people who lived in those areas were mostly not killed by the Scrin, so if they haven't been killed directly by tiberium, then they are mostly still alive even if they had to relocate.
Nod has a fair amount of industry because while GDI had much more industry as of fifteen years ago, GDI's industry suffered very heavily at the hands of the Scrin, while Nod was more able to conceal its industrial base from their attacks.
Tiberium objectively, as a matter of crude, basic fact, vastly simplifies the production of all types of military goods. That's a basic premise of the entire Command and Conquer setting.
Now, that doesn't solve all Nod's logistics problems. But the fact that they can do more with tiberium, including mass-manufacture alien technology that they have detailed blueprints for instead of having to laboriously reverse engineer from battle wreckage as we do, really does help them out a lot.
While landline solutions are an option for vast majority of blue and even yellow zones, I would definitely not be surprised if there were exceptions with Irvan being one of them.
Even today there are enough places around that just do not have access to landlines.
Last edited:
Yes. Its called the Tacticus. Worse, Kane actually knows how it works.
We dont. In fact, we in universe dont know it, but we know so little on how it works, we actually damage it whenever we try to study it.
Last edited:
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
...They probably do.
Namely, that fucker Kamal's brain.
[shakes fist angrily]
I think you're being too ambitious about "go big or go home." Personally, I want to have Reykjavik Phase 4 under our belts (basically done) and the Defender redesign you talk about (a cheap development project)... then build ONE factory.
Why one? Because even a few thousand suits of Zone Armor for Ground Forces would do a lot to ease pressure on ZOCOM by removing the need for them to deploy small forces on various missions all over the world that don't actually directly involve the Red Zone operations they are optimized for.
The rest can come later- but to be clear, this is more an indirect project for ZOCOM (who we are actually not doing much for, they're about as neglected as the Talons if not more so). Not so much a serious effort to radically alter the balance of power for the Ground Forces as a whole.
[Also, having one factory means Ground Forces can start experimenting and workshopping with the right doctrine to use power armor alongside their own forces, instead of using warmed-over doctrine from ZOCOM or the Space Force. Since that kind of tactical development takes a few years to shake out, there's something to be said for giving Ground Forces some power armor well in advance of the point where we can afford to give them lots of power armor]
We can, but there's no perfect solution. Consider the situations.
Stahl got into a Blue Zone by busting out the "TACTICAL GENIUS" card. Against "TACTICAL GENIUS" in a world based on an RTS setting, there's only so much we can do. By fortifying and keeping a level head we can stop him from penetrating too far into our defense zone, force him to focus on targets relatively close to the front and relatively expendable. But until and unless we have overwhelming strength to focus on him personally... Real talk, he's gonna keep making us look like idiots in that particular theater of war.
And, well.
All the other penetrations of Blue Zone territory occurred in or around Krukov's stomping grounds: Siberia. Here's the thing about northern Siberia... it's a very inhospitable place, and our Blue Zones there have a very long land border with almost no population and very little infrastructure of real economic importance. It would be prohibitively difficult to heavily fortify a line across the entire Arctic Ocean coastline of the Asian landmass just to defend a handful of relatively minor ports and installations.
But unless we want to just abandon that area to tiberium (which would take a while to happen since the stuff doesn't grow so well at arctic latitudes)... Well, it's still technically a Blue Zone, y'know? No one ever said there couldn't be Blue Zones on the ass end of nowhere. Indeed, it would be a very bad sign if there weren't, because it would mean we have no strategic depth and that if tiberium advances any farther it'll start badly compromising vital industrial zones.
To be fair, we did, but we will need to continue doing so.
To be fair, we've legit never done that before, so I imagine there's a certain amount of commiseration.
I bet Giddyboy sent him a fruit basket or something, with a thoughtful little note about how he knows how it feels.
Keep in mind that most people in blue-zones about 40-50 years or older? They remember the second war as that time that tiberium got so bad we had to flee to the arctics to survive. So theres a massive political reason right there to hold those blue zones: To keep that last redoubt open for as long as possible.
Functionally the egg on GDI's face is annoying but don't let it distract you from the strategic truth of the matter. NOD is getting desperate. Every year they are losing territory to either GDI or their sacred Doom Rock. They can't do too much to the Doom Rock as that goes against Doctrine and the message it will save humanity, so they have to continually grind their faces on GDI forward positions. Which has been ruinous for all parties.
Them stealing the inhibitor tech and the accelerator tech it spawned from is bad. But it also means they are being forced not only out of their home territories but also that they have to shift internal doctrine about the crystal itself. I'd count that as a win.
I brought it up before but NOD industry particularly its heavy industry has to constantly move with each year, closer and closer to our lines unless it wants to be a fancy tiberium statue. Which makes finding them and seizing them more and more likely. NOD is on a time limit. Either death from the sacred rock or all out in your face war with increasingly terrifying GDI fortifications.
They need to constantly masterstroke now basically. All we need to do is outlast and Grind them down.
Them stealing the inhibitor tech and the accelerator tech it spawned from is bad. But it also means they are being forced not only out of their home territories but also that they have to shift internal doctrine about the crystal itself. I'd count that as a win.
I brought it up before but NOD industry particularly its heavy industry has to constantly move with each year, closer and closer to our lines unless it wants to be a fancy tiberium statue. Which makes finding them and seizing them more and more likely. NOD is on a time limit. Either death from the sacred rock or all out in your face war with increasingly terrifying GDI fortifications.
They need to constantly masterstroke now basically. All we need to do is outlast and Grind them down.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
You're not wrong.
But my point wasn't "there is no logical reason to retain these Blue Zones." It's that trying to make them inviolate against raiding attacks is so incredibly difficult that it would greatly detract from our efforts to stabilize and fortify the front lines in other parts of the world where a successful Nod incursion could do a lot more damage a lot more quickly.
- Pronouns
- He
Planting a flag on a blue zone and getting away practically scott free seems like a solid Nod win and GDI lose.
That said, i understand it was a political victory more than anything.... but it cuts both ways. If the public doesnt want NOD blood spilled by the rivers after that one, it would be really weird. I mean, its the kind of black eye that GDI has to answer.
It will also take down (or make even less popular) the protestant!nod party in politics.
Yeah.... but the thing is that Kane cant magic it up. He needs the infrastructure to make his stuff which is what really stops him. He probably has all the dara about how to make all kind of bs tech, but the industry to make the tools to make the industry to make that tech?
The fact that nod can keep pumping out more and more advance shit, while supposedly losing industrial capabilities is weird. If anything, i expected human waves tactics with simple tech augmented with tiberium.
That is a bit of a plot hole. TW3 started with NOD taking out the ion cannon network (and gdi leadership), exactly because any big attack from NOD (anything beyond a raid) is supposed to be taken down with a space laser.
Last edited: