Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

[Briefvoice]

Given that the most prominent feature of Dragomas's tenure has been the changed treatment of battle wizards, I wonder if that's why he made a play to be Supreme Patriarch in the first place.

"If this is the only way I can get my policies through then let's go," seems like a pretty decent motivation for an Amber Wizard to vie for a job that probably involves way more time in buildings than ideally he would like.

"Oh hell, no, not letting fucking Alric have a fourth term," may also have been a motivation. As we just saw, Alric is still making his play for power long after you'd think he would have slunk off in shame to retirement. Seriously, how do you have the shamelessness to usher in the Night of a Thousand Arcane Duels, get stripped of your position in shame, and then come back completely sure that the Colleges need your leadership. Multiple times!

 

[Mopman43]

The wiki page cites Monstrous Arcanum and WHFB 8th Edition for this.

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Right, I've looked through the Monstrous Arcanum, and I don't see that paragraph anywhere, or anything like it.

The WHFB 8th edition is just the bit saying he turned into a creature and couldn't turn back, from the description of Transformation of Kadon.

 

[Evilness42]

In my imagination, what might be Mathilde's best (or at least funniest) chance at winning a wizard's duel with Dragomas is to ignore the staff, and teleport directly to him and punch him in the face.

Hopefully, he won't have time to finish his transformation or we can dispel it. Without buffs on both sides, this would be as close to an even fight as we could get. He would surely appreciate a return to naturalism too.

As an Amber wizard he's probably ripped, but without buffs maybe he can't leverage that after our surprise attack, and Mathilde swings around a greatsword every day so maybe she has a shot!

Of course, after our victory this strategy would be hilariously ineffective against, ironically, the nerds from the Gold College, so we probably can't take the title.

 

[The Phoenixian]

In my imagination, what might be Mathilde's best (or at least funniest) chance at winning a wizard's duel with Dragomas is to ignore the staff, and teleport directly to him and punch him in the face.

Hopefully, he won't have time to finish his transformation or we can dispel it. Without buffs on both sides, this would be as close to an even fight as we could get. He would surely appreciate a return to naturalism too.

As an Amber wizard he's probably ripped, but without buffs maybe he can't leverage that after our surprise attack, and Mathilde swings around a greatsword every day so maybe she has a shot!

Of course, after our victory this strategy would be hilariously ineffective against, ironically, the nerds from the Gold College, so we probably can't take the title.

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Plot twist: Just as Mathilde takes the direct approach, and so acts in ways that resonates with the themes of Ghur, Dragomas will act in a similarly unexpectedly sneaky Ulgu-y fashion to counter.

Gork and Mork, meanwhile finally make nice on the sidelines with some divine popcorn, appreciating the matched display of Cunnin' Brutality and Brutal Cunnin', respectively.

 

[Godwinson]

Listen, I just want Mathilde to spar with the dragon-man, is that too much to ask?

 

[Shard]

In my imagination, what might be Mathilde's best (or at least funniest) chance at winning a wizard's duel with Dragomas is to ignore the staff, and teleport directly to him and punch him in the face.

Hopefully, he won't have time to finish his transformation or we can dispel it. Without buffs on both sides, this would be as close to an even fight as we could get. He would surely appreciate a return to naturalism too.

As an Amber wizard he's probably ripped, but without buffs maybe he can't leverage that after our surprise attack, and Mathilde swings around a greatsword every day so maybe she has a shot!

Of course, after our victory this strategy would be hilariously ineffective against, ironically, the nerds from the Gold College, so we probably can't take the title.

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A wizard fight that devolved into a fistfight?

 

[Valmond]

Unless you are intending to restructure the colleges as a whole in some fairly radical fashion, i don't really see there being post grey college career.

 

[Ericwinter]

In my imagination, what might be Mathilde's best (or at least funniest) chance at winning a wizard's duel with Dragomas is to ignore the staff, and teleport directly to him and punch him in the face.

Hopefully, he won't have time to finish his transformation or we can dispel it. Without buffs on both sides, this would be as close to an even fight as we could get. He would surely appreciate a return to naturalism too.

As an Amber wizard he's probably ripped, but without buffs maybe he can't leverage that after our surprise attack, and Mathilde swings around a greatsword every day so maybe she has a shot!

Of course, after our victory this strategy would be hilariously ineffective against, ironically, the nerds from the Gold College, so we probably can't take the title.

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Mathilde is supposed to be pretty ripped too, to be fair.

 

[Alliterate]

Mathilde is supposed to be pretty ripped too, to be fair.

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I, uh.... no.

the Staff of Volans glows with an amber light that reveals the shirtless Dragomas in the middle of the room.

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[Cheap Orange Knofe]

Plot twist: Just as Mathilde takes the direct approach, and so acts in ways that resonates with the themes of Ghur, Dragomas will act in a similarly unexpectedly sneaky Ulgu-y fashion to counter.

Gork and Mork, meanwhile finally make nice on the sidelines with some divine popcorn, appreciating the matched display of Cunnin' Brutality and Brutal Cunnin', respectively.

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And that children is how Mathild and Dragomas started writing "So you want to be a Waagh Shaman"

 

[Alliterate]

Exactly, which is my ideal timeline for a bid at the top spot places it at an unknown, post-Waystones and, ideally, post-Grey College career, point in the future. A successful Waystones project would do much to get our name out there, especially if we involve some of the Colleges so they get some of the glory as well. IIRC someone's previously done a breakdown for which Colleges we might gain rapport with in the course of the Waystones project. The Lights for example might be a shoo-in, with Horstmann in and contact made with LM (maybe Matriarch soon) Mira. A career in the Grey College meanwhile, ideally in a titled position in its internal hierarchy, would secure support from the homefront, that is if Waystones doesn't already do that for us.

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I think you're broadly correct. I mean, at this time none of that specific required career progression pathway interests me, including what little we know of the Grey College hierarchy positions, but I think it's correct.
"The Colleges Must Devote Resources to Restoring/Fortifying/etc the Waystone Network" might even be a significant and driving enough platform and agenda to match (succeed?) Dragomas' "Treat Battlewizards with Respect".

 

[B_omega]

A wizard fight that devolved into a fistfight?

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In which that guy will demonstrate that magic is not the only thing he learn in NotChina.

Its quite an eye opener if he also learn 5 point exploding palm technique from an old guy named Pai Mei.


Without our rune and magic tools our awesomeness are pretty limited.
I notice that these duelist also did not include any trinket that made themselves, so self enchanting our own tools is also out...

A very nice thought experiment and question to ourself.. what to do if we do duel for leadership?

Can we bring potions as powerups (snake oil) or extra magic power encased in our mathilde matrix?

We can teleport and use a shadow chisel to his neck, but i doubt even a full strike will get noticed by him.

 

[GrimTheMad]

I think you're broadly correct. I mean, at this time none of that specific required career progression pathway interests me, including what little we know of the Grey College hierarchy positions, but I think it's correct.
"The Colleges Must Devote Resources to Restoring/Fortifying/etc the Waystone Network" might even be a significant and driving enough platform and agenda to match (succeed?) Dragomas' "Treat Battlewizards with Respect".

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If Mathilde actually finds a way to repair waystones (or make new ones) I don't think the colleges are gonna need convincing on diverting resources to it.

 

[Alliterate]

If Mathilde actually finds a way to repair waystones (or make new ones) I don't think the colleges are gonna need convincing on diverting resources to it.

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You'd certainly hope so, though

"Alric of the Light Order challenges Dragomas of the Amber Brotherhood,"

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the Colleges are not immune to bad decisionmaking.

 

[Stewart9]

Dragomas' glare is more "Ok, the gloves are off for you," than "Shame on you"


The chamber is made of obsidian (a magical insulator), and the staff creates an equal amount of both winds.
The system doesn't favor the incumbent.

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I think he was talking about a conflict between the Colleges which would be in the Amber's favor because the Wind of Ghur is blowing strongest in the city.

It can't.

The Transformation of Kadon is one spell to turn into a dragon, and then another spell to turn back into human.

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On the table top Transformation of Kadon is a remains in play spell but it could be dispelled and that would return the castor to their natural form.

Okay, seriously, what the hell was this idiot thinking? Did he really intend to walk into a duel that ends when one side yields and try to cast a lethal spell on what's perhaps the most beloved Patriarch in living memory? What the fuck was this guys plan if he succeeded? Every battlewizard in the room would have lined up for a chance to kill him out of spite and revenge, and if they failed, half of the collage heads would step in simply to keep the fool out of office.

You know, I think we just found the new Governor-General of Swamp Town, because no one is going to trust him with anything important ever again.

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While you do have a point if someone actually killed Dragomas in a duel for the Supreme Patriarch/Matriarch the Gold Wizard even if they successful cast Final Transmutation could stop the spell from Killing Dragomas by controlling how long it took the Dragon Sized Amber Wizard to turn to Gold. In the Duel between Thyrus and Gelt that was told in the old Empire armybooks Gelt won their duel to see who would be Supreme Patriarch by catching Thyrus with Final Transmutation before he reached through a Wall of white fire to grab the staff and Goreman was in the end turned to gold except for his eyes and mouth and after he yielded Gelt ended his spell which returned Thyrus to normal. Now this kind of control when it comes to the most powerful spell of the Gold Order is not what I would expect most Wizards to have but it is possible.

I am surprised no Bright Wizards challenged for the post but I suspect that they would have the least issue with a member of the Amber Order as holder of the top job.

I have very mixed feelings regarding the duels with how short and simple they were. I might be judging based on the one between Gormann and Gelt though, but still.

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While I get where you are going so to speak the duels where so short because of the differences in the skill and power of the combatants. Even the duel between Gelt and Goreman only lasted a page and had them each cast only 4-5 spells each so yes even between wizards of close to equal power the duels don't last that long.

I would say that if we want a chance of winning a duel with Dragon Boss then we need to work on our wizard dueling skills because we might not get to bring our gear and that is a big part of our fighting power. So for working on getting our Shadow under control, getting even better at hiding our self with Ulgu and learning a few more of the battle magic spells are things we need to do before I would want to take a shot at the top job.

 

[Alliterate]

Have we had Word on whether outside kit, say, I dunno, Spellburning occasionally wound-returning Runic belts and disappearing cannonswords, let alone (future runed) revolvers are usable in S.P. duels? I'd tend to presume Stuff You Made is allowable, like Misterious staves and Aethyric robes, but one of the key moments of a duel is a genuine contender getting their hands on the Staff of Volans- though that isn't an actual win condition.

Are you allowed to start the fight with a quarter-army's worth of custom runic bling that's not even on the Dorf list?

Edit. Hrm, maybe Mathilde could claim it's part of her Dawi cultural tradition, no self-respecting Dwarf Wizard would ever be caught without Gromril Runeworks.

 

[Valmond]

I somehow suspect that winning thanks being friends with dorfs is not going to be popular move, even if it somehow manages to not go against the rules.

 

[IronFist]

I somehow suspect that winning thanks being friends with dorfs is not going to be popular move, even if it somehow manages to not go against the rules.

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As long as we demonstrated enough magical prowess, and fought without the belt, i think we'd be fine using branalhune.

It would be more the threat of using it than actually using it though. But some degree of wounding is allowed (amber spear is pretty damn lethal).

Short of developing our own battle magic, ulgu spells are not very good at actually ending the duel.

I guess debuffing the opponent to witlessness would be a way to win. But it's not fast, or guaranteed.

 

[Valmond]

It's a duel to decide the best wizard, not the deadliest person.
Any victory that relies on things we dis not make ourselves (including the seed) would probably be seen as less legitimate, even if technicly legit.

 

[IronFist]

It's a duel to decide the best wizard, not the deadliest person.
Any victory that relies on things we dis not make ourselves (including the seed) would probably be seen as less legitimate, even if technicly legit.

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Shutting down their ability to use spells (without the belt) and holding a sword to their throat is a good victory, even if its not particularly showy.

 

[NuclearConsensus]

I think you're broadly correct. I mean, at this time none of that specific required career progression pathway interests me, including what little we know of the Grey College hierarchy positions, but I think it's correct.

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I can understand why it may not be interesting, it looks iffy to me as well. Any of that list being required though is a little up in the air: as the quest goes on it's possible becoming Supreme Atriarch might become easier or harder. For example, though a very long shot, Mathilde coming back from elfcation with Teclis' personal endorsement would probably do a lot to smooth things over.

"The Colleges Must Devote Resources to Restoring/Fortifying/etc the Waystone Network" might even be a significant and driving enough platform and agenda to match (succeed?) Dragomas' "Treat Battlewizards with Respect".

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Spending Mathilde's term(s) focused on Waystones seems like a great idea, and might even lead to the Empire getting their own way of making use of the winds that they collect, like the Eonir and Dwarfs do/did.

If Mathilde actually finds a way to repair waystones (or make new ones) I don't think the colleges are gonna need convincing on diverting resources to it.

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If it was just the Colleges in a vacuum I could agree, but the need to balance allocating resources for waystones with all of the colleges' other commitments might make it difficult.

 

[Valmond]

Shutting down their ability to use spells (without the belt) and holding a sword to their throat is a good victory, even if its not particularly showy.

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Only if you can do it without the super special rune sword.
Now, a perfectly mundane dagger might work, because any mage has access to one so it's less about us having a magic item from a friend, and just general skill.

 

[Stewart9]

Have we had Word on whether outside kit, say, I dunno, Spellburning occasionally wound-returning Runic belts and disappearing cannonswords, let alone (future runed) revolvers are usable in S.P. duels? I'd tend to presume Stuff You Made is allowable, like Misterious staves and Aethyric robes, but one of the key moments of a duel is a genuine contender getting their hands on the Staff of Volans- though that isn't an actual win condition.

Are you allowed to start the fight with a quarter-army's worth of custom runic bling that's not even on the Dorf list?

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I don't see why our Staff would be a issue but the Dwarf made runic gear might upset some people in the Colleges and get rules lawyers on us but it's up to the QM as no rules that I know of say we couldn't bring our sword at least to the challenge.

 

[pucflek]

The duels were great to be honest. The prose was actually nice and interesting, instead of the pokemon battle of the canon Gelt vs Gorrman which was basically just an extremely dry account of "I cast this, he casts this" naming the spells like it was necessary to call them out.

 

[fictionfan]

While I get where you are saying the duels where so short because of the differences in the skill and power of the combatants. Even the duel between Gelt and Goreman only lasted a page and had them each cast only 4-5 spells each so yes even between wizards of close to equal power the duels don't last that long.

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I think it is more that powerful human (and elf) wizards are basically glass cannons. They can dish out way more firepower then they can absorb.