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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Because if you rolled it, and now she's likely going to a collage full of Ranaldians... well, lets just say it looks like Ranald has been setting this up for a long time now.
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forgive me if I'm wrong/its fandom/or just not quest canon

but I thought The Grey college was largely Sigmarine, with a smaller, but very persistent, Ranaldian cult that somehow gets its teaching to the right students even under the Grey orders noises.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
forgive me if I'm wrong/its fandom/or just not quest canon

but I thought The Grey college was largely Sigmarine, with a smaller, but very persistent, Ranaldian cult that somehow gets its teaching to the right students even under the Grey orders noises.
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I've actually just stumbled across a relevant bit of text. According to Heidi:

BoneyM said:
More than a few Grey Wizards direct prayers His way but few actually believe as strongly as you do.
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So yeah, not every Grey is a devout cultist; Mathilde's kinda unusual, but most acknowledge him anyway—Egrimm says something similar about the Light order as well. I imagine for most Greys, their relationship with Ranald is very casual, almost secular. Nothing like Mathlide's relationship.

also i have a theory that Egrimm is also a Ranald cultist and Ranald is laughing at us right now
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
forgive me if I'm wrong/its fandom/or just not quest canon

but I thought The Grey college was largely Sigmarine, with a smaller, but very persistent, Ranaldian cult that somehow gets its teaching to the right students even under the Grey orders noises.
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The Grey College under Reiner Starke is (was? will be?) pro-Sigmarite without actually mandating faith in its members, not out of zeal but because he believes faith in Sigmar is a useful glue in holding the Empire together. The Grey College under Algard is officially secular, with a blind eye being turned towards any benign faiths brewing under the surface.

Sigmarine is a whole other thing.

Jyn Ryvia said:
and who gets in or sent to one of the other colleges from Word of Boney.

@BoneyM that's right? I admit I'm a little loppy right now. (ear thing, not covid)
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Rest assured that if anyone involved in the recruitment process was enough of a dipshit to start rejecting everyone outside of a single faith, they'd never have reached that rank in the first place.

The Dean handles recruitment, the Porter handles security clearances, including who is able to enter the College grounds at all. So the Porter has what amounts to a veto on recruitment but has to show their working if they use it.
 
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Jyn Ryvia said:
and the Porter also gets to pick who gets in or sent to one of the other colleges from Word of Boney.

@BoneyM that's right? I admit I'm a little loppy right now. (ear thing, not covid)
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I believe this is the passage you're thinking of:

BoneyM said:
After Regimand has exhausted what he's confident enough in to teach, you're passed along to a rather more intimidating figure - the Porter of the Grey Order, Reiner Starke. His unassuming title hides the truth of his power in plain sight - it is he that decides who the doors of the Grey College do and do not open to. The youngest current Lord Magister, his ambition is as well known as his loyalty to the Empire.
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BoneyM said:
Rest assured that if anyone involved in the recruitment process was enough of a dipshit to start rejecting everyone outside of a single faith, they'd never have reached that rank in the first place.
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...Huh, you're usually less direct in theoretical character traits horrible. Or at least more eloquent. Not that I blame you here, it's just surprising.
 
I am very much looking forward to (if Eike decides to take the Grey) Mathilde visiting the apprentice dorms over the next several years, acting all mysterious and listening in on all the crazy gossip she generates, whilst also slipping Eike cool things on the sly.

Gib cute apprentice in Evil and Skullduggery (read: puns and screwing with people).

I need it.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Jyn Ryvia on Jun 7, 2021 at 7:40 PM, finished with 1147 posts and 238 votes.
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So, after thinking about it, Mathy is going to put away the plans for smaller custom robes and give the girl an honest description on the pros and cons of each college, as far as she knows herself.

its just that she knows a lot of the good parts of the Grey Order, and has conveniently forgotten some of the bad part.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
Adhoc vote count started by Jyn Ryvia on Jun 7, 2021 at 7:40 PM, finished with 1147 posts and 238 votes.
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So, after thinking about it, Mathy is going to put away the plans for smaller custom robes and give the girl an honest description on the pros and cons of each college, as far as she knows herself.

its just that she knows a lot of the good parts of the Grey Order, and has conveniently forgotten some of the bad part.
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Why would Mathilde do this when she literally has other wizards right now of different orders who could give an even more insider and honest view than Mathilde of their own order, right now the next Karag over to Eike herself?

Furthermore, her recommendations goes straight to Wilhemina, not to Eike firstly. And advising Wilhemina that there is more Mathilde can do for Eike within her order, than somewhere else is one of the big points she would emphasise, something that is most definitely the unbiased truth. The wildcard here is what case Mathilde makes for the Gold, since I suspect its high enough this possibility is raised.

So why do people think Eike's personality is compatible with the Gold College, or how it might help some of the issues and fears that Eike currently grow up under? What does Mathilde think is likely to happen to Eike if she is raised in the Gold Order, the values and mentality they likely will inoculate? The Gold College is a popular third option, but why Mathilde might advocate this as a person is very very under examined (as is why its superior to the fourth option, the Jade College).

... I really want to see Eike interact with Johaan and Max.
 
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I remember months back, when the discussion came to us getting an apprentice. I got the impression it was dismissed out of hand, then lo and behold a child is dropped on us and we immediately start pitching the college to them.

Mathy is highly commited, until an alternative opportunity is dangled in front of her.
 
Andmeuths said:
Why would Mathilde do this when she literally has other wizards right now of different orders who could give an even more insider and honest view than Mathilde of their own order, right now the next Karag over?

Furthermore, her recommendations goes straight to Wilhemina, not to Eike firstly. And advising Wilhemina that there is more Mathilde can do for Eike within her order, than somewhere else is one of the big points she would emphasise, something that is most definitely the unbiased truth. The wildcard here is what case Mathilde makes for the Gold, since I suspect its high enough this possibility is raised.

So why do people think Eike's personality is compatible with the Gold College, or how it might help some of the issues and fears that Eike currently grow up under? What does Mathilde think is likely to happen to Eike if she is raised in the Gold Order, the values and mentality they likely will inoculate? The Gold College is a popular third option, but why Mathilde might advocate this as a person is very very under examined (as is why its superior to the fourth option, the Jade College).

... I really want to see Eike interact with Johaan and Max.
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I'm assuming this talk is going to happen in Striland with Wilhemina and Eike, not in K8Ps

And I was assuming that -let Eike decide would require mathy to example the colleges to her.
 
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CornyBones said:
I remember months back, when the discussion came to us getting an apprentice. I got the impression it was dismissed out of hand, then lo and behold a child is dropped on us and we immediately start pitching the college to them.

Mathy is highly commited, until an alternative opportunity is dangled in front of her.
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There was a significant contingent that fought against the concept of even looking for an apprentice, dictating that they would only accept one if one narratively popped up naturally rather than us having to seek one out.

That being said, at the end of the day the people that are the most vocal in regards to fighting an option are often a minority. The majority of the quest's voters don't state their preferences outloud until there is a vote for it.
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
And I was assuming that -let Eike decide would require mathy to example the colleges to her.
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Yes, but why might Mathilde play devil's advocate for the Gold to both? People have mentioned the spellbound, but what about the values and mindsets of the Golds, which I suspect is as foremost in Mathilde's mind .

Yes , Mathilde could work with two Gold now magisters with, and indeed without Max the feat of cracking the Skaven Language could not have happened. I think Gold has pulled ahead enough, to get a slightly even more slanted hearing than the other colleges but why? There has been lots of out of narrative justifications but what about within the narrative?
 
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Pros and cons of the Gold College that I can think of off the top of my head at 2 AM:

Pros:
1. Some absolute banger spells for what Eike will probably be doing in the future. Law of Logic sticks out to me as a Relatively Simple spell that should be incredibly useful when it comes to Stewardship.
2. Speaking of Stewardship, the Golds are really damn good at Stewardship. Its kinda their Thing. The Gold College would probably maximize Eike's ability to manage the EIC as a business.

Cons:
1. The Golds aren't really people-focused. Eike's Diplomacy may suffer, especially if she delves deeper into the Wind.
2. The Golds do sure like to accumulate wealth. The Gold College might instill this as a value in Eike as well, resulting in her getting a bias towards choices that increase the EIC's(and her own) wealth.
3. We can't as easily keep track of how she's doing in the Gold College. If her mentor(s) in the Gold College are molding her in a way we don't like, it might take quite a while before we know it.
4. A good amount of Gold magic relies on substantial amounts of wealth. If wealth can be converted into magical power, then that adds an additional profit motive for Eike, adding additional bias towards choices that increase her wealth.
 
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LadyLynn said:
Pros and cons of the Gold College that I can think of off the top of my head at 2 AM:

Pros:
1. Some absolute banger spells for what Eike will probably be doing in the future. Law of Logic sticks out to me as a Relatively Simple spell that should be incredibly useful when it comes to Stewardship.
2. Speaking of Stewardship, the Golds are really damn good at Stewardship. Its kinda their Thing. The Gold College would probably maximize Eike's ability to manage the EIC as a business.

Cons:
1. The Golds aren't really people-focused. Eike's Diplomacy may suffer, especially if she delves deeper into the Wind.
2. The Golds do sure like to accumulate wealth. The Gold College might instill this as a value in Eike as well, resulting in her getting a bias towards choices that increase the EIC's(and her own) wealth.
3. We can't as easily keep track of how she's doing in the Gold College. If her mentor(s) in the Gold College are molding her in a way we don't like, it might take quite a while before we know it.
4. A good amount of Gold magic relies on substantial amounts of wealth. If wealth can be converted into magical power, then that adds an additional profit motive for Eike, adding additional bias towards choices that increase her wealth.
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Pros:

3. The understanding of the Golds, of Technology, Engineering, Chemistry and the natural world is foremost among humanity. These guys have figured out the Periodic Table up to 90 elements and have comprehended the distinction between elements and compounds for example. If you want a technologically highly literate governor, the Gold is the college of choice, and in many ways, the EIC is also a tech producer. Their grasp of materials research is top-notch among the Colleges, an important consideration when it comes to EIC's R&D endeavours, of which Anton has made the beginnings of. A gold Eike likely guarantees such efforts into technological research will long outlive Anton.

4. Mathilde has worked with Golds for over a decade, on some of her most significant research. She knows how to work with Golds, she's spent her whole Magister career working with Max and Johaan. Depending on who Eike's master is, this is the second most likely college where Mathilde could offer some mentorship to Eike, especially the field of windsight and academia navigation.

5. Fundamental to the Gold mindset is one governed by reason and rationality. Such individuals are likely very easy for Mathilde to handle, from a position of hierarchy or even collegiality, because to some extent, they can be predictable with sufficient information at hand. Even someone like Max, who tends to be irrationally petty still follows the general college mental paradigm of empiricism, logic and rationality - appeals to all three work on them, which gives someone like Mathilde very solid ground to work with (this, incidentally is also why the Mathilde likes the Dawi... since they are sufficiently predictable).

6. People want to do Business with the Gold College. A Gold College Eike is a member of one of the richest organizations on the entire planet, one of the most desirable Business partners. I suspect a partnership with Eike being the front face of the EIC, will in many ways replicate the partnerships that Mathilde made with Johaan and Max.


Cons?:

5. Let's be blunt here, the governess of the EIC being of the Gold College is likely going to be part of the Gold College general overtues to the Dawi.

6. Moreover, Mathilde likely cannot predict what the Gold College would do, if they have the opportunity to turn the future Governess of the EIC into one of their agents. In the narrative, I suspect Mathilde would feel at least some discomfort on this.

7. We do not know, from the perspective of Eike making her own decisions, whether she, as a Shallyan with personality dispositions would find the Gold College's culture, mindset and ethos amenable to her - again, advocates of the Gold haven't talked about this yet. I suspect if we leave it fully up to Eike, she's more likely to go for Jade, especially if her exposure to the Jades is via Panoramia.

8. From the perspective of the unhealthiness of Eike's upbringing that the thread has identified, how would the Gold College redress Eike's mentality that everything in life is a test? This is a very unanswered question, which has been thoroughly addressed with the case for the Grey College

Idle Thoughts:

1. Is Mathilde prepared for a fully Gilded, functionally immortal Eike?

2. I suspect this is how you get mad wizard-scientist Eike.
 
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Andmeuths said:
Pros:

3. The understanding of the Golds, of Technology, Engineering, Chemistry and the natural world is foremost among humanity. These guys have figured out the Periodic Table up to 90 elements and have comprehended the distinction between elements and compounds for example. If you want a technologically highly literate governor, the Gold is the college of choice, and in many ways, the EIC is also a tech producer. Their grasp of materials research is top-notch among the Colleges, an important consideration when it comes to EIC's R&D endeavours, of which Anton has made the beginnings of. A gold Eike likely guarantees such efforts into technological research will long outlive Anton.

4. Mathilde has worked with Golds for over a decade, on some of her most significant research. She knows how to work with Golds, she's spent her whole Magister career working with Max and Johaan. Depending on who Eike's master is, this is the second most likely college where Mathilde could offer some mentorship to Eike, especially the field of windsight and academia navigation.

5. Fundamental to the Gold mindset is one governed by reason and rationality. Such individuals are likely very easy for Mathilde to handle, from a position of hierarchy or even collegiality. Even someone like Max, who tends to be irrationality petty still follows the general college mental paradigm of empiricism, logic and rationality - appeals to all three work on them, which gives someone like Mathilde very solid ground to work with (this, incidentally is also why the Mathilde likes the Dawi... since they are sufficiently predictable).

6. People want to do Business with the Gold College. A Gold College Eike is a member of one of the richest organizations on the entire planet, one of the most desirable Business partners. I suspect a partnership with Eike being the front face of the EIC, will in many ways replicate the partnerships that Mathilde made with Johaan and Max.


Cons?:

5. Let's be blunt here, the governess of the EIC being of the Gold College is likely going to be part of the Gold College general overtues to the Dawi.

6. Moreover, Mathilde likely cannot predict what the Gold College would do, if they have the opportunity to turn the future Governess of the EIC into one of their agents. In the narrative, I suspect Mathilde would feel at least some discomfort on this.

7. We do not know, from the perspective of Eike making her own decisions, whether she, as a Shallyan with personality dispositions would find the Gold College's culture, mindset and ethos amenable to her - again, advocates of the Gold haven't talked about this yet. I suspect if we leave it fully up to Eike, she's more likely to go for Jade, especially if her exposure to the Jades is via Panoramia.

8. From the perspective of the unhealthiness of Eike's upbringing that the thread has identified, how would the Gold College redress Eike's mentality that everything in life is a test? This is a very unanswered question, which has been thoroughly addressed with the case for the Grey College

Idle Thoughts:

1. Is Mathilde prepared for a fully Gilded, functionally immortal Eike?

2. I suspect this is how you get mad wizard-scientist Eike.
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All very good points.

More pros:
7. Eike picking the Gold College and still being affiliated with us would be another step in improving intercollegiate relationships, and may help open up even more doors than we already have in getting shared projects with the Golds in WEBMAT.

8. The Gold College might also look favorably on us for the fact that we tried to help Eike make an informed decision that led her to the Golds, rather than simply pushing her into the Grey College.
 
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