Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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Magnos III
(Unverified Planeswalker)
As my friend Jack would say... let's go by parts:
Ok, so, any other Karaks we can recover? Anyone? I'm not very familiar with the lore but I know that there are a lot of options we could try but we need ones that 1) Already have a reasonable group/expedition forming to do it 2) can be defended once reconquered and 3) preferable would be an old one so we can send more juice to Karak-a-Karak.
I think that 3 more Karaks would be a nice start. After that… maybe kill a few of the bigger offenders in the book of grudges? Who would be the no-chaos-gods top contenders? That dark elf guy maybe? Again, not very familiar with the lore here.
Then… maybe find a way to make the dwarf woman have more children, or have children faster, and use the resulting population boom to reconquer even more Karaks? That's an idea…
Come one people, we need to brainstorm this!
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
In the interests of humor, I should note that Mathilde's efforts to restore both Vlag and Eight Peaks—as well as finally discovering what happened to Dum, even if it wasn't good news—will probably go a long way to countering the Dwarven cultural inertia that limits births. Also the... what, two percent increase? In population from Vlag outright will probably help. AV is a good way to save lives in the long run by letting the Runelords wield Anvils more often. And if our research into Waystones helps Thorgrim eventually turn on some more of the Ancestor's great Works that might make them happier.
Magnos III
(Unverified Planeswalker)
Hey, so… joking about becoming an ancestral god aside, what would, theoretically speaking, be necessary for us to be more popular/more-well-liked among the Dwarfs than Sigmar? By a reasonable margin, I mean.
(Also nice way to get back a Sigmar for the whole Van Hal thing: 'I will show you Sigmar! For taking Van Hal away from me… I'm gonna beat your Dwarf-Favor record!')
(Also nice way to get back a Sigmar for the whole Van Hal thing: 'I will show you Sigmar! For taking Van Hal away from me… I'm gonna beat your Dwarf-Favor record!')
A mere few Karaks, bah! Let's bring back the Dawi Zhar into the fold, that should do it.
- Location
- Finland
Save the throne of power and all of Karaz Ankor?
- Location
- Earth
So basically, save the entire Karaz Ankor, kill a couple of demigods, and build a vassal nation state strong enough to control a decent chunk of the continent. I suppose eliminating an enemy nation state could be considered on par with building an ally, so if you take out the Skaven and Chaos dwarfs, that could be a start.
Magnos III
(Unverified Planeswalker)
Right so let's do a list:
1) Save the High King and the Throne of Power: barring emergencies I think that if we got the power reserves to go up enough by restoring more Karazs that would do it? You could even say we already did that, maybe?
2) Kill Nagash and an Everchosen: we can leave the Everchosen for when he appears again next time Chaos decides to invade. Meanwhile… hum… maybe the Witch-King and his mother, when we go on our elf vacation? Add some big name Von Carsteins to this and that should amount to 'a Nagash' right?
3) Build a large and powerful Empire that allies with and halts the decline fo Karaz Ankor' Tier: unifying the Border Princes maybe? Maybe adding the whole of the Badlands too? That should do it.
Yup, seems easy enough.
- Location
- Finland
1. Doubt that would do it, just making things better is not equal of stopping everything from being destroyed.
2. Potentially?
3. Anything we do will partially get added to Sigmars tally, as we are an outcome of his actions. Also with the existence of the empire Karaz Ankor is nowhere near in as much of a need for an ally allowing for safe(ish) travel. So i doubt pacifying badlands would be enough, even if we manage to make that pacification last the next couple millenia.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Technically, yes, we may have already achieved saving the entire Dwarven race. We may have even done so in a more permanent and worthwhile way that Sigmar—by outright halting the Life-Support's decline rather than just keeping it from being blown up for a time—but the problem is that nobody except Thorgrim is aware of that. Sure, they know we recovered Eight Peaks and Vlag, though not single-handedly, and there's no public connection between that and "preserving the Karaz Ankor" as there is with the Throne.
Mathilde barely survived fighting a single Champion of Khorne, as well as the one elder vampire she's actually fought in person. Malekith or his mom would murder the ever-loving fuck out of her if she ever went near either of them. I've joked about assassination before, but even that Would have about as much chance of success as just praying they keel over from heart attacks.
...Yeah, no. Even if, by some miracle, you could make that happen, it probably wouldn't stick.
- Location
- Finland
Well, Belegar saved Karaz Ankor and the entire dwarven race.
He just did that partly by hiring a human wizard.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Well yes. Though depending on how much Vlag and the Dum connection count, and if it would be enough even without Eight Peaks, she could, theoretically, be said to have equivalent credit to doing the saving. Maybe. It's a bit complicated, and also depends on how much credit you want to give Mathilde for the unnecessary side mission she undertook on an Expedition she wasn't even directly expected to go on. And a lot of other ifs and so on and so on.
But yeah, if Eight Peaks alone was enough, he should totally get credit for saving the Karaz Ankor. OOC at least, he'll never get it in character.
- Location
- Earth
In case you're being serious (and even if you're joking, there's some fact checking to do):
1. Dwarf Reputation necessitates that an action is known. Otherwise, it's hard to call it 'reputation.' This is why she didn't earn DF for assasinating warbosses during Karagril. In this case, Mathilde doesn't even know what the karak waystones do, let alone dwarf society in general. Think back to the final battle of K8P, and how there were songs written about the battle at the West Gates. You need that kind of conflict, and with Thorgrim involved.
2. Elf vacation is limited to Nagarythe, which is one part of Ulthuan. Ulthuan (High Elves) and Naggaroth (Dark Elves) are two different continents. Unless we get unlucky and Malekith decides to invade during the three months we're over there, that's not a thing. A more feasible target might be Cor-Dum, which we know the location of and is at the appropriate level of power. Of course, you'll still need an answer to the (completely justified, I say) gut instinct of running away screaming (also applies to Malekith, Nagash, etc).
3. The Border Princes are worth about 2-3 provinces, and you'll need an answer to how you're going to deal with the Waaaghs. Adding the Badlands would fit the criteria, but you'll need an answer for how you're going to take out the Waaaghs without natural fortifications.
- Location
- Finland
K8P was explicitly enough.
Even if Vlag would be enough without K8P, the saving had already happened, and making things more secure is not the same as saving from certain destruction.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
Eh~ that's why I said it's a bit complicated. Personally, I consider seperate actions that—outside each other's contexts—would have the same effect to be worth the same, even if one happening first invalidates that effect for the other. They're still acts of similar magnitude, and the timing doesn't change that. Heck, I would almost consider Vlag Better because it outright added to Dwarven population and was achieved single-handed ly instead of with an army.
On the other hand, precedence does have a way of diminishing value, and if someone doesn't consider the connections of Eight Peaks and the connections of Vlag/Dum to be interchangeable, then yeah, it's not really worth as much. But that's probably a matter of opinion more than anything, especially for dwarves who have that whole thing about sturdy construction and redundancies.
Also, I recall quite a bit of confusion as to whether Eight Peaks was enough, and not any clear confirmation. Can you point me to a WoB I might have missed?
- Location
- Finland
The part where the sirens about low battery stopped.
Ok sure it might not literally say that Karaz Ankor is saved, but atleast i can't really buy any other reading of it than that the batteries were now recharging (partly due to personal opinion that merely being stable at critical level should not stop warning signs).
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
I mean, most battery systems don't warn you when they're draining in my experience, only once they've hit critical levels. In fact, some will keep telling you it's critical even as they recharge until they're no longer low. It's entirely possible the initial rush of stored power— if there was one, which I don't think was clarified either—From three thousand years of being offline, if I'm remembering the history right, brought the batteries above critical, but even the renewed flow wasn't enough o keep it from draining again. Hell, I don't think we even know for certain that Eight Peaks, Vlag, and Dum are enough to counter the drain, though I certainly expect so.
Honestly, we'll probably never know unless and until Thorgrim decides to show us his systems and what bits did how much. Which is to say, pretty much never.
- Location
- Finland
Most battery systems do not power a life support system for a whole species.
Also i think that waystones don't really store magic (could be wrong), only gather and send it, and blocking one while active for long periods would either make them explode or grow dhar (like K8P ones had done), so there would not have been an initial rush of power.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
It's possible you're right. Maybe even probable. But honestly? We can't know until we've actually done some research on the whole thing. Which, I suppose, is rather the point of the next arc.
- Location
- Finland
Sure we can't know.
But i'd say we can be certain enough for practical purposes.
The whole idea of trying to one up Sigmar is kinda silly anyway, sigmar has couple thousand years of good(shoddy?) work put on behalf of Karaz Ankor, and his starting point got so high that outside extremely unlikely circumstances we are never going to get there.
Darth.
Definitely a heretic
- Location
- The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
Also the Border Provinces may be two-three provinces worth of land and resources, but definitely not people. In an age before automation, having a lot of land and resources but not having the population to actually exploit it all means those resources might as well not exist. Annexing the Border Provinces would provide a boost to the Empire, but not as much as two or three provinces worth.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
That's an opinion, and not one I can say I share.
Well, the first part anyways. Outdoing Sigmar is rather silly. I only participate in these conversations because it's also an amusing thought exercise. We can't reasonably manage it without either saving or breaking the setting.
- Location
- Greece
Sigmar didn't save or break the setting tho.
Ericwinter
Definitely not a Skaven Infiltrator
- Location
- America
No, but he also did most of his stuff in a time where there weren't already quite so many powers taking up all the easily maintained spots. Like, the biggest thing he did was set up the Empire. Mathilde could, theoretically, kill a couple of baddies equivalent to the ones he fought—though I wouldn't want to try it any time soon—but that? We can't match the sheer amount of good the Empire has done without radically changing the setting and it's balance of power. We would have to build a power capable of affecting the Old World for thousands of years. Chaos is already supposedly fairly balanced against Order—broadly speaking—from my admittedly limited understanding. To add or reduce one side of the equation would probably tip that balance over completely.
Like, it doesn't have to be a big fated battle or shutting out Chaos or anything, but even lesser stuff like, say, repairing Elf/Dwarf relations, or repairing the Waystone Network, or stuff like that? It would, as far as I can tell, basically ensure the End Times never happen.
- Location
- Greece
I am not a lore expert either, but from what I understand? and lore experts correct me if I am wrong, chaos, orcs, Skaven etc. are definitely overpowered compared to Order. However, they are less strategic and less united (not that order is all that united, mind you, its just those guys are even worse, you couldn't destroy most human armies the way Mathilde hurt the orcs and Skaven by assasinating the leaders and causing infighting, nor could you have a 1d6 chance that reinforcements from order would start a civil war like reinforcements from chaos did on Dum). This means they can easily collapse to stratagems and/or deaths of leader figures (by duel, daring but strategic assault or intrigue) much easier than the average Order army can.
From what little I have gathered (again, not lore expert, you just pick up some stuff when you read every damn post of this thread, thanks quarantine) that is how Order factions get by in cannon since ancient times when they were even weaker, they get bodied, then they manage to hit the enemy's fault points despite being weaker, usually with the help of some blessed superwarrior, and then the enemy dissolves.
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