I mean for one thing who is going to argue with Kragg or Thorek if they decide to get involved due to personal connections? The Runelonds are not some kind of centralized institution, they are deeply idiosyncratic especially at the highest levels.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
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I mean for one thing who is going to argue with Kragg or Thorek if they decide to get involved due to personal connections? The Runelonds are not some kind of centralized institution, they are deeply idiosyncratic especially at the highest levels.
On the Runesmith issue, we had the chance to learn Cult of Thungni lore previously. I wonder if doing so now would make it easier to come up with reasons why they should contribute. Mathilde does use her Learning to substitute for her Diplomacy when she has the ability to prepare, and this seems like a time this might apply.
Belegar says it would be easier under Dwarven authority, not that it might only be possible under Dwarven authority. You'll be able to get someone, it just might be the Runesmith equivalent of Gotri if you really flub your handling of the Cult.
I think he is confusing the Eonir with the Astrai who to be fair kind of are that bad in some cases.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
It hasn't even been two-centuries, and it was far from certain that the Colleges would survive, or that if they did their word would be useful, until recently -- this IS their attempt to reach out to the Colleges of Magic, in a way where they will actually listen.
This is the quote I was refering to:
Basically, Belegar is suggesting that the Cult of Thungni could be largely kept out of the entire thing if Mathilde would get an "open-minded" (kickflip radical) runesmith to contribute far away from the Cult and their eyes. Because we talk about "the Cult of Thungni" but they aren't a unified body; do it under their nose and the leaders get to make all the decisions; do it in an elven forest and how do the Runelords know what any individual "open-minded" runesmith might or might not be sharing?
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Are we really arguing that letting Chaos continue to corrupt Waystones is better than letting elves run them?
I always thought that people supposedly having an irrational distaste for elves was a meme, but now I'm reconsidering...
I'm not saying any one here engages in it, but literal racism against fictional Elves by real people is totally a thing that happens and I've observed in both forums and real settings, it's why dwarven arrogance is oft white washed in warhammer where as Elven arrogance is taken to be a deadly insult. I'm not going to pontificate on the causes but I'd be surprised if there isn't some influence of that here given the voter base is hundreds strong. *shrug*
- Location
- US
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- He/Him
Wow, that's some low-key Elf racism going on there lol. It's pretty strange to see such strong distrust for an entire Politity we've had 2 IC interactions with.
"Those terrible Elves are definitely going to hide stuff from us!" yes, of course they are. They aren't morons, and they do have the ability to do Intrigue. Literally everyone (Empire included) hides stuff from us. Mathilde has a long laundry list of stuff she's hiding from everyone.
90% of the Empire would try to kill her on sight if it ever got out she'd even read the Liber Mortis.
Mathilde is a paranoid Grey; she's not gonna blindly trust anyone, but she's also good enough to know you can't let your paranoia go too far.
Edit: changed up the first sentence so it didn't sound so generalized and imply more than I meant. Good call @picklepikkl
"Those terrible Elves are definitely going to hide stuff from us!" yes, of course they are. They aren't morons, and they do have the ability to do Intrigue. Literally everyone (Empire included) hides stuff from us. Mathilde has a long laundry list of stuff she's hiding from everyone.
90% of the Empire would try to kill her on sight if it ever got out she'd even read the Liber Mortis.
Mathilde is a paranoid Grey; she's not gonna blindly trust anyone, but she's also good enough to know you can't let your paranoia go too far.
Edit: changed up the first sentence so it didn't sound so generalized and imply more than I meant. Good call @picklepikkl
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
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- He/Him/His
Got it, thank you. I was reading "easier to recruit other Runesmiths" as "there's a chance we might flub the roll and get nobody," especially in light of Algard's existing skepticism and the tragedy of Edda's roll to get weavers back in the day.
In that case, I withdraw my concern and will edit my previous posts accordingly. Though now my desire for Mathilde to do a pros and cons list before the final vote is even higher, given that I, a fairly invested person, fucked up this badly
Eh, there's one person being vocally concerned and a lot of other people saying it's unjustified. That's not strong distrust in the thread, that's one person's idiosyncratic feelings.
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K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
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- Belgium
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- He
Or we could just say « Hell no, YOU asked US and the Dwarfs to come help you, and if you don't want to let us use that knowledge for ourselves we will let you try fixing your Waystones alone! » Of course the Eonir will not let us know about their state secrets and most powerful magic, but that's only normal.
Concerning the replicability of the research to other Waystones, all of those in the Empire were also made by Elves. And for the Dwarfs ones, the findings will still be extremely useful.
We're speaking about WHF Wood Elfes, not WH40k Eldars. The Asrai have never tried to invade Bretonnia in 15 centuries while being much more powerful and xenophobic than the Eonir. There's no way the Eonir will try that. That would make the Empire hate them. It would be more advantageous for them to simply stay cool with the Empire and let it be their buffer state, like Bretonnia is for Athel Loren.
For that matter consider that a mere generation ago the Colleges were outlawed and had to fend off an Imperial siege. In the span of not even a single elf lifetime the Colleges have gone from nonexistent to tolerated to outlawed and back to tolerated. As far as the Eonir are concerned they might get killed by a mob of crazed fanatics tomorrow with no rhyme or reason. They are not exactly plugged into the Empire's rumor network, or at elast they were not before the thing with the Ulricans
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- Utrecht
Two entirely positive interactions, as far as I'm concerned, and we still get this.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
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- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
Then why haven't we heard of it before? If Laurelorn sent an emissary to any of the colleges then they'd have a research team out there within half a year to confirm it.
Also, this is dependent on Laurelorn has ever tried a diplomatic resolution, which isn't a certainity.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Yes, that is indeed what I was referring to in the first half of that post.
...because Mathilde is the emissary that they picked? It's literally why we're talking about this? Sorta the point of this whole deal?
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- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
They have a land treaty signed (which the empire has been ignoring). That kind of implies that they did diplomatic outreach in the past.
Asheram
Not quite altogether
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- Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
No? The trees being waystones and us researching physical dwarf-made waystones are different things.
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- Utrecht
Umm... we were that Emissary. They sent a message to the colleges via the Ar-Ulric, and asked for us by name.
And we had years to go confirm it. If anything, it's on us.
.....wow
you know what I said about painting WF elves with the same brush as their 40k counterparts? the above. mixed with purposely mixing up athel loren elves with the Enoir.
look, as someone who came into the setting the otherway around to most people. (RPG- Black Libarary- 40k TT) the elfs, preiterly the high elves, are not like the elder and are actually pretty fucking noble in whatever book or story they turn up in. 9 time out of 10 they try to do the right thing: that can be dicks about it, and can get stuff on what they think over others, but they almost always choice to do what they think is right even at personal expense.
its just that they really fuck up that 1/10 times and are bad at interacting with others.
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- Earth
I think you may want to reconsider if that was 'entirely positive.' Yes, there was justification, and yes, this was addressed in the latest update, but no, I don't think it was entirely positive.
That is not really an interaction with us, it's an interaction with Norland.
K von Carstein
Likes to go for a walk
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- Belgium
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- He
Also, I don't remember magical Gaes ever being a thing in WHF, but I could be wrong.
I mean, I do want Kragg and or Thorek for the project but 'Runesmith equivalent of Gotri' sounds rather appealing.
Hopefully we can have both.
- Location
- California
Let's examine this. What if the elves, who are explicitly seeing this project as one of their only alternatives to slowly losing ground and dying, decide to force oaths of secrecy?
If they do it at the start, then nobody comes and helps them with their project at all. This is pointless from their perspective, as they've just burned a bridge for nothing.
If they do it at the end, then they've got no real ability to enforce that without violence, and the group worried about extinction doesn't want to piss off every major magical tradition (and their backers) that was previously friendly to them.
The Eonir are not stupid evil.