Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Also, can we please get off the "But is the Empress technically a rapist" train? The facts are the facts, the rest is a matter of opinion and you lot aren't gonna agree on it. So could we not get into an entire side conversation?

If you want to get into it, take it to PMs and leave the rest of us out of it.
 
It's true that Aborash hasn't been a vampire for as long, but the difference is only a few years out of the thousands of years the two have been alive. He was also made a vampire through the elixir and not a bite, so he is also a part of the first generation. Further, he was the captain of her guard before becoming a vampire, and in undeath he was the one who became famous as a legendary warrior and founder of a bloodline of legendary warriors, while Neferata sat back and pulled strings.

She isn't one to be trifled with in combat, but she by no means is as dangerous as Aborash.
A) Abhorash was plenty strong as a Vampire, even if he didn't really choose to drink the Elixir.

B) There is no indication on how strong the dragon Abhorash fought was other than "it was a dragon". Certainly nothing stating it was an Emperor Dragon.

Yes my comment isn't 100% accurate, but I was trying (and failing) to succinctly provide a clear example for why "Tee hee we can totally take care of that pesky Neferata with one or two dragons and some mages!" is an adsolutely stupid idea. One that the poster still thinks is somehow anything but complete suicide if their recent posting is any indication.

I'm sure if we can't fight and kill Neferata 1 vs 1. I think she is likely to easily defeat us if we sneak on her alone. As far as I understand, even if she isn't Abhorrash or Vlad, she is way more powerful then that Necrah vampire that almost killed us.

Now, a dragon and a council of wizards and a big army could deal with her forever or at least scare her away I think.
Really? Really? No. If by "scare her away" you mean "provide a nanosecond worth of amusement or distraction to," sure but there's more productive ways to commit suicide by obscenely powerful beings.
 
Well, what I mean is that there is a chance that Cython goes there and talks to them. Maybe convinces them or maybe kills them, who knows. Same with Deathfang. A nice big chance there for me to get huge problem solved without too much risk on our hide.
Deathfang and the Fire Dragons would get on like a house on fire: Massive property damage and multiple deaths.

He doesn't like wind-tied dragons one jot.
 
Personally, while rape by deception always sounded like a stretch to me, I also find fake identity worse than false promises...
Identity is a story we tell to ourselves.
Sure, while i'd hate politician to lie about their past, and would consider it a reason not to vote for them, this is a feudal society where leadership role is given out by the parental lottery, which i find inherently unjust anyway so i don't particularily care if someone manages to fake noble identity and then uses that to do good as Heidi seems to be doing.

>she is now keeping permanently

You don't know that. None of us know that. And that would still be screwy, even if she was.

And she didn't just lie about her parentage. She had to have lied about her activities for the past couple of decades, at least. She had to have lied about her history.
Ok, fine, in couple decades the empress dowager will die in a horrific accident leaving her grieving son to look after the empire.
I don't really care.
So far i have seen nothing that would make me consider poor emperor, or the empire, worse of for the deception.
 
I'm arguing in perfectly good faith, dude. I don't know why you think otherwise, or why you're acting incredibly rude, but I'd prefer if you cut that shit out.
I literally didn't even mention you in that post. I was talking about DragonParadox. Before calling me rude and telling me to cut shit out, at least make sure you've got the right post
 
I said the issue in the same post you quoted.

Also you use the absolute worst case scenario as an argument to not vote Bodyguard. That's a logical fallacy at its core. You're exaggerating an argument to its worst possible condition and then arguing about the exaggeration. And then you refuse to consider the same worst case fallacy can be applied to Waystones and Loremaster as well. When this pointed out you just go
"but Heidi bad"
Why?
"Manipulating Emperor to put son on Throne".
But Emperor wants the same.
"But he'd have us use our powers to get Electors to vote for him."
That's a feature not a bug and expected. The Emperor is supposed to use the people at his disposal to shore up his position. (WOG).
"But Heidi would have us sabotage stuff"
No she won't she wants her son on the throne and if she's such a mastermind she'll be smart enough to not strangle th golden goose.
"But then Emperor could do it"
No he won't.
"But he could go crazy tho"

None of that is argument in good faith.

So since you can't respond to a set of arguments politely, they're in bad faith?

You might not agree with "rape by deception" being a thing. It... kind of commonly is accepted as a thing. To me, you're the one arguing in bad faith.
 
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we would not simply have the recourse of shouting 'article one' and leaving.
Yes, we would. What would Leopold do, declare a person with more dwarf favour than perhaps the entirety of the Empire and that also presumably spent a while doing favours to Electors against the law over leaving his employ? Mathilde is not some Journeywoman straight out of apprenticeship, she is probably top 100 politically important figures in the Empire, which will only shoot up if she takes the job. Not even the Emperor can simply strongarm her into things easily, if at all.
 
Rule 3: Be Civil - Dismissing another user's posting as 'incoherent rambling' is not okay.
I literally didn't even mention you in that post. I was talking about DragonParadox. Before calling me rude and telling me to cut shit out, at least make sure you've got the right post

Oh, excuse me, you used the format of A, B, C that I just did in a post, and didn't refer to anyone by name. I'm so sorry I couldn't figure out your incoherent rambling, given that you just wanted to shout about the "hurr durr"s.
 
Also, can we please get off the "But is the Empress technically a rapist" train? The facts are the facts, the rest is a matter of opinion and you lot aren't gonna agree on it. So could we not get into an entire side conversation?

If you want to get into it, take it to PMs and leave the rest of us out of it.
We also don't actually know the facts.
We know what Heidi told us, which was a very brief and quite shallow description of what went on.
And have zero input from emperors side.
 
So since you can't respond to a set of arguments, they're in bad faith?
Dude? I literally put the responses in italics. :???:

It was to demonstrate how the argument is going around in circles with the same arguments being brought up to different counterpoint without actually answering or addressing anything.
 
What makes you think that she would not have big army with plenty of wizards of her own ?

Neferata totally would have skeletons, ghouls and vampires, maybe even some undead dragons. But our wizard-council would be more creative I think. Like, finding a way to explode all that Dhar in Neferata's chamber creative. :lol:

Anyway, that sounds fun, as long as we don't try infiltrating Neferata's mountain on our own to assassinate her. That simply wouldn't work, I'm somehow sure of it.
 
Dude? I literally put the responses in italics. :???:

It was to demonstrate how the argument is going around in circles with the same arguments being brought up to different counterpoint without actually answering or addressing anything.

And? Your response to the accusation of rape by deception is that it isn't real! Why is it okay when you do it?
 
In retrospect getting more involved in the discussion beyond that of posting an [X] in my preferred option was definitely a mistake.
 
Oh, excuse me, you used the format of A, B, C that I just did in a post, and didn't refer to anyone by name. I'm so sorry I couldn't figure out your incoherent rambling, given that you just wanted to shout about the "hurr durr"s.
Dragon literally called me out on the hurr durr thing and I used it as an example for him. Can you calm down? It's a bit ironic to ask me to stop being rude and then do this.
 
I would strongly advise everyone who is currently in a tizzy with accusations and counter-accusations of bad faith to drop it, without further defense of yourselves, before you get the thread locked.

Also, we've had the following in the thread banner for a year and a half, so your brain has probably filtered it out, but I'm pretty sure the mods still take it seriously:
I am bringing down the heat in this thread. I understand that some people get emotional about votes and about their consequences. But I want to be clear. If your post contains a personal attack on another poster or on other posters generally, you will receive an infraction and a 3-month threadban.

So, y'all, make like an Ice Dragon and chill.
 
[X] Swamp Town
[X] Markgraf of Eastern Stirland

No other option really appeals to me. I have no doubts all of them will be exciting and fun, but there's a whole new world out there to explore! We'll be one of the first major old worlder's to explore and communicate with the Lizardmen. And frankly, I've never seen a quest exploring the Lustrian continent from the perspective of an Empire governer/wizard/researcher.

Besides we're so early on the timeline we might get to officially name a few of the lizardmen species. Think about it, we could name the fat ugly all-powerful frog people Sigmarrites!

Admittedly the humor might pass over the Lizardmen's heads but come onnnn :V

Uh not really? There's been plenty of contact between the Empire and lizardmen. It's all been universally negative. Hell, we're not the first mage even, see that Celestial Magister who somehow survived getting into a magic duel with a goddamn Slaan. Maybe Mathilde could somehow surpass generations of fueding, and a massive cultural barrier but we've been told to not rely on that happening.
 
Oh, excuse me, you used the format of A, B, C that I just did in a post, and didn't refer to anyone by name. I'm so sorry I couldn't figure out your incoherent rambling, given that you just wanted to shout about the "hurr durr"s.
@Taxpayer Are you not able to see what posts people are quoting to reply to them?

If you can see the quotes in people's posts you need to pay more attention to them - they indicate who is being replied to, if it's someone other than you then you can know you're not the target of the comment.

If you can't then you should probably try and find out why in the Forum Tech Support subforum.
 
No offence but do you think the people who voted to stay with dwarfs rather than help out in the Empire will chose that assignment over something which will help alleviate dwarven issues?
You say it as if the people not voting for Loremaster will not be allowed to vote. Or that people voting for Loremaster are so attached to Dwarfs that they will refuse jobs that involve fewer of them.
 
And? Your response to the accusation of rape by deception is that it isn't real! Why is it okay when you do it?
Okay at this point if you're going to start attacking people rather than talk about this logically, I have nothing to say to you. I wish you luck in the quest vote, but I'm done with your aggression.
 
No offence but do you think the people who voted to stay with dwarfs rather than help out in the Empire will chose that assignment over something which will help alleviate dwarven issues?
I think voters are not a monolith, and have a variety of different interests. Just because you vote for Loremaster-at-Large doesn't mean you don't have any interest in Skaven or the Empire.

Moreover, if you had said 'mostly dwarf-holds' I'd be fine with your statement, but without that qualifier you are objectively wrong in saying 'only' dwarf holds.
 
Uh not really? There's been plenty of contact between the Empire and lizardmen. It's all been universally negative. Hell, we're not the first mage even, see that Celestial Magister who somehow survived getting into a magic duel with a goddamn Slaan. Maybe Mathilde could somehow surpass generations of fueding, and a massive cultural barrier but we've been told to not rely on that happening.
Weren't there actual lizardpeople mercenaries active in the old world?
Also it would be kinda rude to go naming other people, especially if you do it as an insult, they have names already.
 
Also, can we please get off the "But is the Empress technically a rapist" train? The facts are the facts, the rest is a matter of opinion and you lot aren't gonna agree on it. So could we not get into an entire side conversation?

If you want to get into it, take it to PMs and leave the rest of us out of it.

I mean when it's actually at the core of why I don't want Mathilde to work for Heidi, I don't really think that's a side conversation.

@Taxpayer Are you not able to see what posts people are quoting to reply to them?

If you can see the quotes in people's posts you need to pay more attention to them - they indicate who is being replied to, if it's someone other than you then you can know you're not the target of the comment.

If you can't then you should probably try and find out why in the Forum Tech Support subforum.

To be fair, people swap who they're addressing without adding a new quote all the time on SV. I did admittedly misread that and thought he was addressing me.
 
Personally, Heidi hasn't done anything I find particularly morally objectionable. Nobility is dumb and bad, and conning your way into nobility while following a god of protecting the meek and being blessed by the goddess of kindness and mercy is good, actually.

Same goes for fucking with vampires, which is not surprising since vampires are a not-particularly-subtle metaphor for nobility to begin with.
 
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You say it as if the people not voting for Loremaster will not be allowed to vote. Or that people voting for Loremaster are so attached to Dwarfs that they will refuse jobs that involve fewer of them.
Kinda seems that way though. If you want kill skaven there is a better option right there. Most of the loremaster justification right seems to be "belegar best friendo" :confused:
 
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