I'm not sure I would call him a zealot, that would imply faith which is at best ambiguous. Rather his canonical iteration is fanatically pro Sigmar for mostly political reasons. He believes that the religion is fundamental to the empire's unity and thus its survival.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
I'm not sure I would call him a zealot, that would imply faith which is at best ambiguous. Rather his canonical iteration is fanatically pro Sigmar for mostly political reasons. He believes that the religion is fundamental to the empire's unity and thus its survival.
- Location
- Greece
Chaos champions are also demi gods of war though.
Problem with settings with a lot of awesome is that it is hard to get context sometimes. Krillin is laughed a lot as wek in DBZ, but he is stronger than ... well... any rl country I can think of.
The Empire was reorganised afterwards so that this wouldn't hppen though. And that is before it got the greys.
Ok, fair, the lizardmen are nigh impossible to exploit into self destruction, but hypothetical 40-50 lucky intrigue puppetmaster who made the empire self destruct (because that is the metric needed to exploit those hang ups without having the luck of a Dieter IV helping you) could exploit them into leaving him alone.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Nope. rpg and black library Grail Knights really are *not* that powerful. Not in armybook fiction either. Which books are you drawing this image of them from. Cause I can't find a single example of them beating armys at all.
again. nope. your average chaos champion is just not that special. Chaos has Mass infantry and cavalry formations of these people. and so does bretonnia. What someone told you out of context in SBs vs debates forum is not actually representative of the world. This is a world here *armies* of magical beings do battle. On a very basic level the setting does not allow for army killers.
Last edited:
He is not. He considers faith in general and faith in Sigmar specifically important to the unity of the Empire, but I think the canon doesn't even go into whether he is a believer himself, instead of valuing faith for societal reasons.
In the Canon End Times Settra just gets punked by Nagash and that's it.
All the other stuff is just words from a writer after the fact in non-canon forms.
And it has been less than two centuries since, or as dragons call it a middling nap. Maybe don't declare the problem solved already.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I have no idea how common demigryph knights are, but the lore reads pretty explicitly. They are supposed to be rare as all hell.
He is more religion is a social glue kind of guy to me.
but even if he is a zealot: there is such a thing as a smart zealot, one that can pick and choose their fights and play the long game.
maybe he is just trying to promote the 'religious' Greys first, then move on to Sigmar dominance.
I think it would be the occasional challenge, but I doubt it would get to the not-fun level.
If the rumors that Mathilde is too blatantly anti-Sigmarite really start swirling, this actually seems like something the Deceiver side of the Coin might be be able to help with. Mathilde could come up with some story about how she actually deeply respects Sigmar but has a hard time expressing it for (bullshit reasons), do a little public penance, and leave everyone convinced, "Ah yes, Mathilde is always acting like she doesn't love Sigmar because she is totally tsundere and embarrassed to admit how she turns to him in her darkest hours. How cute!"
(Mathilde-with-Deciever-Coin)
"I know sometimes I have disagreements with his clergy, but I fucking love Sigmar."
(everyone)
"Well there you have it, she fucking loves Sigmar."
Oh god... now I want this to happen just so we can pull that one off.
- Location
- Greece
The Khorne champion we fought could easily take on Perseus, a demi-god.
Notably, the Empire didn't actually kill itself during that age and even quasi-united a few times when there was an existential danger present.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
and Mathilde killed him. and neither he nor her could be considered "can take on entier armies on their own" which is how Jyn characterised Grail Knights. Like. I'll put it this way. Mathilde is roughly equal to that champion, the dice showed that pretty well even if we lost in the end, a Grail Knight is about equal to that champion *on a good day* most often they are weaker then that.
Yes, it only came within months of destruction and needed literal divine intervention in the form of Magnus to dig themselves back out of it.
- Location
- Greece
An ice witch channeling 4... make that 5 gods killed him, Mathilde got whipped. And Mathilde is also a murderblender of some ability, looking at K8Ps... hell, look at her at the sme battle before the champion came, she killed people like flies.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I understand the desires for Mathilde to have some in-character reasons to rethink Disdain for Sigmar before people want to vote for it, out of a very understandable motive to not just choose traits to remove mechanically inconvenient parts of her personality. But it's been almost a decade, and it isn't that weird for Mathilde to no longer feel the active spite required to keep that grudge going. Memes and religious announcements aside, she isn't a Dwarf, she doesn't automatically hold onto grudges for the rest of her life until they are repaid.
Keep in mind, that doesn't mean it's my preferred trait vote. I do consider it to be a negative trait that was born out of pain, and not from her performing a cost/benefit analysis and deciding that Sigmar himself is actively bad for humanity. I also don't hate that she has this actual flaw among all of the things that make her amazing. But if she's going to be in an Imperial space with responsibilities, it actually matters whether she lets her personal bias poison her decisions. It would be analogous to that time that Kasmir hired exclusively Sigmarites to the severe detriment of effectiveness. Mathilde recognizing that, and using that as the impetus to re-examine her grudge and admit that it isn't actually reasonable to stomp her foot on everything Sigmar-shaped, is a perfectly acceptable in-character justification to me.
Keep in mind, that doesn't mean it's my preferred trait vote. I do consider it to be a negative trait that was born out of pain, and not from her performing a cost/benefit analysis and deciding that Sigmar himself is actively bad for humanity. I also don't hate that she has this actual flaw among all of the things that make her amazing. But if she's going to be in an Imperial space with responsibilities, it actually matters whether she lets her personal bias poison her decisions. It would be analogous to that time that Kasmir hired exclusively Sigmarites to the severe detriment of effectiveness. Mathilde recognizing that, and using that as the impetus to re-examine her grudge and admit that it isn't actually reasonable to stomp her foot on everything Sigmar-shaped, is a perfectly acceptable in-character justification to me.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Mathilde matched him (without her normal array of buffs and debuffs thanks to his magic resistance and khorne's help dispelling) until he got a good hit in and then started to dominate. The fight could have gone either way.
rare as hell, and rarer then grail knights is not the same thing.
also, population percentage: empire big. 0.5% of a million is still 5000 thousand.
That sounds like a waste of a coin face that could have gone on the Gambler for basically any project and not in the least fun to me.
ShyPerson
Guardian of the dead’s final rest.
- Location
- Sweden
- Pronouns
- Him/He
Is there a point to this anti-empire talk? Because it reads like you are digging for reasons to trash the Empire.
"Couldn't beat the greatest Chaos invasion in two and a half millennia" is a bit removed from "killed itself". Any Empire would have problems with Asavar Kul, united or not. Also, I am fairly sure Magnus wasn't a literal divine intervention, he was just a great guy who's greatness was confirmed by the gods. They didn't really guide him on that path, though.
- Location
- Greece
Mathilde also got a good hit, which he just shrugged off. It could have gone either way, yes, but dude was clearly the strongest party, the one with the better chances by a margin.
And again, Mathilde could be argued to be exceptional herself, she has, on multiple occasions, cut her way through lesser enemies. Comparing her to Perseus or Bellerophon would not be hubris, bet she has decent chances against a minotaur (I think the chaos Dawi have some.)
I think the empire gets way over-hyped in canon and in fanom both so I do my best to push back from time to time.
They were on the verge of falling to cults, never mind the invasion.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
But not a whole army which. again. was my issue with how much Jyn has been trying to hype up Grail Knights.
Look, I do not expressing myself too well, Amry kills was the wrong term, but your really pulling teeth on what I'm saying to protect your argument.
grail-knights are very much Classical demi-gods, that is blatantly what the writers are going for mixed with the round table. (who themselves can be argued as late-stage demi-gods stories)
if not the likes of hercules.
Last edited:
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
I was actually talking about the Grail Knights there
EDIT:
So did High Elves, and so did Bretonnia at some points in their history. The Empire is oooooold. Seen some shit. Ultimately it does decently well in the race for survival.
Last edited: