So you believe they are the tradition of a magical genius that manages something not even the Slann can do? We fall back on the fact that you think they came up with some clever trick that breaks the model and I think they fit under it.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Thinking about it yes he was.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
The Slann can use Qaysh, which covers everything they can do. It doesn't matter whether or not Qaysh can be split into Four Elements as well as Eight Winds if you're able to use it undivided.
- Location
- Earth
All it takes is a single sentence from Algard to make it in character:
Mathilde, we need your help!
Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I dunno, tbh I like Mathilde's chances against Heidi* in a Ranald-off even less than her chances vs. Dragomas in aGoing for Supreme Matriarch is a dumb idea, let's go for Archbishop of Ranald and kick Grand Theogonist out of his Elector Seat.
*I'm just guessing, that's not official canon or anything.
I think the implication is that he also said "now stop asking about it, that explanation makes sense because I just told you it makes sense and who's the elf here huh? Oh that's right it's me. Now do you want to keep bugging me or do you want to learn more cool elf tricks?"
You just claimed they might be manipulating some unknown material or energy between the winds rather than the winds themselves. The Slann use the winds directly like all the traditions that descend from them.
In order to split High Magic into something you would first have to produce high magic, something which no human so far has been able to do, and they can't be personally splitting Sevir since that is in the warp and thus takes a gate to get to.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
If Sevir is actually not 8 atomic discrete winds, but rather say, 24 subwinds, or 8 winds and 4 bindings, or something else, then by using a different, less obvious, splitting system you'll get different results.
The Slann use Qaysh. What is Qaysh? Is it simply manipulating multiple winds simultaneously, or is it something more wholistic? We don't know.
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And yet the literal Daemons of Chaos and Magic use familiar winds when they are not drawing directly on the lore of their God. You would think that if they can pull out the Chartreuse Wind and taunt wizards with it they would have done it already.
- Location
- Greece
Eh, I like our chances against Heidi more than our chances against Dragomas.
I am not saying she has 100% percent chances of victory. Ranald may like Heidi more, or he may dislike the idea of a fixed archbishop so much he'll troll us (he sends a different representative to each conclave, sometimes he sends multiple and they have to duke it out) He is really, really a prankster about things he thinks do not matter that much, and even when he can settle things that he thinks matter with a prank, he does.
I am saying Ranald fought Khorne for us when our winds failed.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
Why would they bother if the eight winds are the most powerful ways to wield the arcane for combat short of Qaysh?
I'm not saying that the eight winds aren't a thing at all, just that there's definitely more going on than eight discrete and atomic winds that can never touch and have nothing in between them.
It feels like people keep reading into what I write things that just plain aren't there - that elementalists use an arcane energy that isn't Sevir, or that the Eight Winds are purely imaginary (rather than them being part of a bigger picture). So before I start going off the deep end I think I have to bow out.
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We are Wizards
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
There comes a time when we heed a certain call
When wizards must come together as one
There are mammoths crying
And it's time to lend a hand to theft
The greatest gift of all
We can't go on pretending day by day
That someone somewhere will soon make a change
We're all a part of Ranald's big family
And the truth, you know
Stealing's all we need
We are wizards
We'll take your mammoth
We are the ones who make a risky play
So, let's start stealing
There's a choice we're making
We're filching our own rides
It's true we'll kidnap it today
Just you and me
Take that hammer so they'll know that someone cares
And that Dragon will make them turn and flee
Ranald has shown us by changing Franz to Manfred
And so we all must lend a halping hand
We are wizards
We'll steal your mammoth
We are the ones who make a risky play
So, let's start stealing
There's a choice we're making
We're filching our own rides
It's true we'll kidnap it today
Just you and me
When you're in sixth place
There seems no hope at all
But if you just believe
There's no way we can fall
Well, well, well
Let's realize that a change can only come
When we vote together as one
We are wizards
We'll steal your mammoth
We are the ones who make a risky play
So, let's start stealing
There's a choice we're making
We're filching our own rides
It's true we'll kidnap it today
Just you and me
When wizards must come together as one
There are mammoths crying
And it's time to lend a hand to theft
The greatest gift of all
We can't go on pretending day by day
That someone somewhere will soon make a change
We're all a part of Ranald's big family
And the truth, you know
Stealing's all we need
We are wizards
We'll take your mammoth
We are the ones who make a risky play
So, let's start stealing
There's a choice we're making
We're filching our own rides
It's true we'll kidnap it today
Just you and me
Take that hammer so they'll know that someone cares
And that Dragon will make them turn and flee
Ranald has shown us by changing Franz to Manfred
And so we all must lend a halping hand
We are wizards
We'll steal your mammoth
We are the ones who make a risky play
So, let's start stealing
There's a choice we're making
We're filching our own rides
It's true we'll kidnap it today
Just you and me
When you're in sixth place
There seems no hope at all
But if you just believe
There's no way we can fall
Well, well, well
Let's realize that a change can only come
When we vote together as one
We are wizards
We'll steal your mammoth
We are the ones who make a risky play
So, let's start stealing
There's a choice we're making
We're filching our own rides
It's true we'll kidnap it today
Just you and me
Because they are creatures of Chaos mutation and madness. They would have try out all combinations constantly simply to see all the wonderful ways they could be turned to twist and defile life. Daemons of Tzeench do not wake up in the morning put on their daemon pants and decide to use the best tool for the job.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Personally speaking, there's one thing that makes me think Qhaysh is more than just a method of casting using multiple winds, that it is something that exists on it's own- as far as I can tell, Qhaysh isn't a word from an Elven language, it's one from Dark Tongue, like the names of the Winds of Magic.
(At least, that's the impression I get from looking at the entry for Dark Tongue on the wiki- it says it's drawing from Warhammer: Realms of Chaos- the Lost and the Damned, which I do not have and will attempt to find)
(At least, that's the impression I get from looking at the entry for Dark Tongue on the wiki- it says it's drawing from Warhammer: Realms of Chaos- the Lost and the Damned, which I do not have and will attempt to find)
We know explicitly that Qaysh is the eight winds used in concert. The entire elf model is built around it, and they train their mages to use each wind seperately before using them together in a spell. I have no issue with the argument that the teclisian model is imperfect, but this is very much a "tide goes in, tide goes out, can't explain that" moment.
If I was going to guess how elementalism worked it would be something in the vicinity of divine magic or apparition binding. You're not touching the winds directly, you're connecting to an aetheric being that manipulates the winds for you. Maybe it's like making a deal with a djinn, maybe you staple an elemental to your soul and use it like a sock puppet, maybe you surf the waves of a non-sentient manifestation of the world's collective conception of "what the world is made of" which has become a stable presence in the aethyr due to collective impact of being's perception of the world shaping the energy of the aether.
What it isn't going to be is a weird trick that gives us ultimate power. It probably won't even be useful to study, because we can't be the first wizard to try and explain elementalism in our terms and some of them probably spent years if not decades and still there's no explanation.
What it isn't going to be is a weird trick that gives us ultimate power. It probably won't even be useful to study, because we can't be the first wizard to try and explain elementalism in our terms and some of them probably spent years if not decades and still there's no explanation.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
They learn all 8 winds, then they learn to use Qhaysh, but there are multiple indications that Qhaysh is not simply "With my left pointer I control Ulgu, and with my middle finger I control Hysh, and with my ring finger I control..."
For instance, quoting the wiki:
" Teclis soon learned the secret of his new protégé's success: Volans was one of the few, (if not the only), Humans able to perceive all the Winds of Magic in their purest form, Qhaysh. " Plenty of humans can perceive all eight winds.
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Fayhem
Definitely not an escaped SCP
- Location
- At large
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Oh, he LIKES us a hell of a lot, no doubt. We've got "favored disciple" status for sure. But when he decided to let it ride and reinvest the power we helped him yoink, did he go to us or did he go to Heidi? What I'm saying is I think there's factors that would go into it besides "who does Ranald like more on a personal level." And on those factors I think Heidi's got Mathilde beat at the moment.
NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
I blame everyone but myself for this.
- Location
- Utrecht
Are people glossing over Bok? Elementals are clearly known to Ulthuan, Teclis just didn't pass on that part of the Ulthuan model to the colleges.
Maybe the technique under Ulthuan's model is impractical to learn within a human lifespan, so it didn't make it to the curriculum.
Maybe the technique under Ulthuan's model is impractical to learn within a human lifespan, so it didn't make it to the curriculum.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
It's not that Elementals exist, it's that Elementalists exist, human Elementalists, and they can both create Elementals and don't go crazy any faster or more often than the average Hedgewise.
Which doesn't fit the College's understanding of how that should work.
I'm sure the Elves have more of an explanation, but the discussion, as far as I'm aware, is about the model the Colleges operate under.
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Forming "living" war machines out of the winds is actually something the colleges know. The weird thing about the elementalists is that they somehow use multiple elements and not just to make elementals but as actually manipulating them.
- Location
- Earth
Alternatively, Ulthuan lost the knowledge at some point. The White Tower was built well after the War of the Beard, iirc
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Ranald has invested way more resources into
To put it into tortured chess terms, Mathilde is a Knight whereas Heidi is a Queen. The Knight might be able to move in patterns the Queen can't, but that not enough to make anyone sacrifice the latter to save the former.