Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Elf Model:
Cardinal Winds (8 total, one for each wind.)
College Model:
Single Wind (3 total, Mystical, Elemental, Cardinal) - Colleges noted by BoneyM to have an unfinished evolution.
Elemental Model:
Elemental 'Winds' : By the power of Earth (Ghyran), Fire (Aqshy) and Storm (Azyr), etc!
Is my understanding of it.
Also I now wonder if we can try creating Ulgu spells that are simultaneously Mystical and Elemental.
Cardinal Winds (8 total, one for each wind.)
College Model:
Single Wind (3 total, Mystical, Elemental, Cardinal) - Colleges noted by BoneyM to have an unfinished evolution.
Elemental Model:
Elemental 'Winds' : By the power of Earth (Ghyran), Fire (Aqshy) and Storm (Azyr), etc!
Is my understanding of it.
Also I now wonder if we can try creating Ulgu spells that are simultaneously Mystical and Elemental.
- Location
- Greece
Actually, there is a significant chance he didn't invest everything else in Heidi, but rather that he invested an unspecified fraction of everything else into the gamble of making a Ranaldian Emperor, by using the faithful most suitable for the job. Gods in Warhammer have agendas, they do not just act by putting their followers in a ranking ladder and their favoured servant is not always the best for the job (Mathilde would be really bad for that job).
Now, I could be wrong here. And it could be there is another, third, unknown person that is more suitable for archbishop even if they are less favored than Mathilde, or that Ranald hates the idea of having n archbishop, so we won't get the job even with that reading. But my point is, "he gave everything to Heidi cuz he likes her more" is not the ONLY reading possible.
Edit: Also, I am almost certain he didn't invest everything to Heidi, but he gambled them in multiple schemes to increase his power and/or reach or to do things he consider beneficial. May even have spent a significant fraction to fight Khorne.
Second Edit: Admittedly, all of this can well mean that he didn't fight Khorne for us ether, but rather for his agenda of reconcilation with the northern gods. Which is also a fair point to make. The way he addresses us in his letter tbh is greater proof of us having more favour due to that, even if its still not conclusive.
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Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Have we not already?
Mockery of Substance causes a creature to appear dead, using the Mystical thing about Ulgu being good at blurring things, in this case life-death, while also playing on Ulgu's Elemental connection to shadows, causing the creature to be insubstantial like in Substance of Shadows.
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Heidi is Mathilde if Mathilde surrendered all her ties to anyone but Ranald.
Elementalists work by Fire, Air, Water, Earth model from ancient alchemy. Or at least, the only materials that ever speak about them in any fashion say that, so in absence of any canon, we can only assume this. What they can do straight up does not make sense if they are utilizing just single wind.
I think the idea that Elementalists are not using Winds at all is weird. They definitely are. Its just that they are using them in some weird goddamn way that enables them to weave spells with multiple of them. This versatility is paid of by inability to perform any actually grand magic the way Collegiate wizards can.
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- Location
- Utrecht
Cloud of Confusion is also Elemental/Mystical hybrid.
Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Could be there are ways that winds might lose their identity aside from being low density and while Collage doesn't know them Elementalist do. And considering they can call more power than hedge mages they still can't call as much as Windmage since high enough density still reminds winds to misbehave.
Elements might be involved or apparations both as the source of purification.
Mopman43
Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak
- Location
- Vermont
Well, there is at least one other way that happens- Dwarf runes.
I doubt that's what the Elementalists are using, but who knows?
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
It is Mathilde's own reading that Ranald did spend at least a majority of his winnings on ensuring Heidi became Empress Consort.
And remember, just 4 coins' worth of Mork from Ranald's literal stacks was enough to make a seriously powerful Magical Item for Mathilde, so even if Ranald only spent the equivalent of like 7 coins on Heidi I would still say that that act alone represents a larger investment into her than Mathilde.
But he has also invested more than that. Remember the conspiracy that
Mathilde gets one reroll every 6 months worth of luck (or at least she got that before the coin, I expect the blessing mechanic from Ranald's side of things have changed now), whereas this conspiracy got enough to become a major player amongst flippin' Lahmias in what's at most that period of time.
And that's the conspiracy as a whole, not counting what he gave
- Location
- Greece
Could be that this one + we get from Ranald corresponds to multiple things within the same action. We certaainly got quite the string of coincidences when we were searching for priests against Stromfells.
Could also be he went after Lahmians like he went against Khorne and Heidi was his instrument for that.
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- Location
- UK
Just to propose another hypothesis on Elementalism, it could be similar to the Ice Witches in that there are some really very subtle elemental gods, maybe of the entire world, who can be tapped into similar to the Widow to do magic alongside the Winds. Ice Witches already exist after all and good chance Damsels are similar, possibly Liche Priests too, and as for the requirements of elemental gods, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were some subtle gods who kept to themselves out there, especially considering some of the comments on Winds by Cython and looking at the minor Stirland gods.
You could even argue that by Occam's razor this is most likely, after all which is more likely, that it fits in with one of the already established types of magic, that of Wind magic, Divine magic and Hybrid magic, or that there's a fourth method Elementalism which we only hear about from this single college in the Empire.
I don't actually think this for certain mind, just a possibility.
You could even argue that by Occam's razor this is most likely, after all which is more likely, that it fits in with one of the already established types of magic, that of Wind magic, Divine magic and Hybrid magic, or that there's a fourth method Elementalism which we only hear about from this single college in the Empire.
I don't actually think this for certain mind, just a possibility.
You know I'm curious about something on an institutional level.
@BoneyM if we figured out some way to steal some of the lore of the elemtalists without getting caught and then published papers on the information how would the Grey College react?
As a note I am not proposing the action, but I am curious how the colleges would react.
@BoneyM if we figured out some way to steal some of the lore of the elemtalists without getting caught and then published papers on the information how would the Grey College react?
As a note I am not proposing the action, but I am curious how the colleges would react.
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- Location
- North Wales
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Mathilde's share of Ranald's favour during the period of the Lahmian conspiracy was largely eaten up ensuring the Wisdom's Asp rolled nothing but snake-eyes on its attempts at ambushing her for the better part of a decade.
- Location
- Norway
Try it and find out.
(Undertone: depends a lot on what is found out in that lore.)
- Location
- Earth
I'd say they'd consider us incompetent if we did it in an obvious manner, else they'd say nothing at all
Try it and find out.
(Undertone: depends a lot on what is found out in that lore.)
It's more than I want and IC estimation about robbing an institution of arcane learning in semi-good standing who the Colleges have a rivalry with.
I think it would depend on what secret it is?
like, we know some of the Elementalist became Brights and Celsitals, so some of those secrets might already be in the colleges already.
- Location
- Aotearoa
I may be wrong, but I've always understood that the Conspiracy was Lahmians.
Heidi was 'simply' doing her own thing, 'positioning herself well' for fun and profit, and the impersonation of a Lahmian 'Countess Gabrielle' is all that linked her to the Conspiracy.
Abelhelm's Witch Hunters had lucky breaks in investigating it to untangle us, as I recall.
Perhaps somewhat revisionist? There were several emphatically good for us and bad for them rolls, especially during the felling of the castle which was a bigger deal than taking the town. Such as-
If we are ascribing all Mathilde's swings in fortune to Ranalds influence, there was a lot of that going around.
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Tasoli
Life is for Living
- Location
- Behind the Keyboard.
Both are with strong staff turning traditions. Might be corelation.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
If I could trade every single good roll we got in taking down the castle for an equivalent roll during the city, I would do so in a heartbeat.
- Location
- Aotearoa
That's a more moderate statement and position and one I can sympathise with.
(Though also his death might have been the best thing possible for Mathilde's narrative arc.)
- Location
- Earth
I think it'd be like robbing the University of Altdorf. There's a rivalry, but why bother when you can access their papers?
I don't think we can access the papers of the Elementalists and we certainly don't have access to the fundamentals of their magic.
The eight winds are probably the closest to a 'true' model, because they're the intended mode, as created by the Old Ones and practiced by the Slann. Of course, that also got fucked when the polar gates went poof, so unintended modes turn up. The elemental style probably falls under that, Gods might.
How magic 'really' operates is a question best asked to the dragons, because they can still remember the time before it got fucked with. Winds weren't a thing then, so they're not the default, but that dragons have such an affinity suggest that they're probably not that far from the actual functioning.
How magic 'really' operates is a question best asked to the dragons, because they can still remember the time before it got fucked with. Winds weren't a thing then, so they're not the default, but that dragons have such an affinity suggest that they're probably not that far from the actual functioning.