Rune magic is powered by the winds. Damsels use the winds but they have some unknown means of using multiple without going cold turkey in between. The ice witches use some odd divine magic/leylines hybrid. I noted divine magic as being an exception and nobody knows what is going on with waagh magic, I doubt the green skins even understand how it actually works.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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Are they actually? Or do they just seem to, and in fact use some grand unifying theory cheat code? I seem to remember that army sourcebooks cheat a lot with effects, because they give people stuff from the 8 wind paradigm that correlate only roughly with their lore capabilities.
Maybe the wind method is just the best to use destructively, so they use it in war while knowing other stuff exist but finding them less optimal for war purposes.
Or maybe the elves learned from the Slaann who learned from the Old Ones who knew a lot... but not about the Warp, thus creating a really strong system, but not a truly perfect one that explains everything (especially things that arose after they left).
Or maybe you are right. Point is, its not the only explanation.
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Do they divide them down as eight winds, or do they use Sevir in a manner similar to that referred to as Qaysh.
Because the energy being the same energy that imperials call the Eight Winds doesn't mean that the Imperial system is right.
But it doesn't use the 8 winds, it draws in Sevir, what the Imperial Colleges view as the 8 winds - and the Elementalists view differently - and does something with it that should be impossible within Teclisian Theory.
What you're doing is like saying "of course they use the four elements of Earth, Air, Fire and Water - look, that computer is made of Matter, and we know all matter is the four elements". You haven't explained anything about runes with your eight winds theory.
NavySeel
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Now he has the arm we bought.
The Slaan pretty explicitly use the Eight Winds as well as the Lore of High Magic, they can do things with all of them beyond all other mages but the thematics are consistent.
Aethyr is intrinsically part of the eight winds theory. We know that the winds are broken up from the stuff of unreality into the eight separate winds. The winds can then be either harnessed or combined into Dhar or Qhaysh. Where the alleged 4 elements come from is entirely unclear but those basics of warp to reality explains basically all arcane magics. When you take Gods and other aethyric beings into account you get very close to 100% of magic being explained. Which is why I think the elements can be explained under a wind based model. Probably the same way the other petty magic traditions are just in a more stable way.
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And the ancient philosophers knew all matter was made of the four elements. It is possible for a model of reality to be wrong. And when it consistently fails to explain things that people are doing, it probably is.
It explains one type of arcane magic. Your answer to everything else is "somehow it's divine" or "they have some trick we don't know that allows them to break the rules". If the rules are so constantly broken, maybe they're not the rules.
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1) This model consistently explains magic though. We know there are giant warp gates leading to the aethyr pouring the eight winds into the world. That is a fact. You can try and explain how your 4 elements work but we know how the eight winds theory works. It is the basis of basically all magic that doesn't assume 1st edition as canon.
2) It explains the magical traditions of: the High elves, the dark elves, the wood elves, the lizardmen, the dwarves, the Empire, Bretonnia, Tilea, Estalia, the birder princes, Albion, need I go on? The winds based model is the main magical theory and it explains nearly all magic that isn't divine.
TLDR: No the elementalists didn't discover this one weird trick that is a completely new magic tradition that isn't based upon either the aethyr or one of its inhabitants.
Keep in mind you are currently saying Ulthuan the civilization with over six thousand years of arcane tradition, vast lifespans and living gods walking among them is wrong and the minor tradition of cyclically persecuted humans who would lose lore in every one of those persecutions is right.
The elves are not right because they are elves, they are right because their circumstances allowed for a much more though study of the subject. Does that mean their understanding of magic is perfect, no. But the same way a dwarf blacksmith's axe was a hell of a lot better craft than the shoddy tools they naemd the humans after, the elves craft of magic was and remains far better than any human civilization we know of from canon.
While the litche priests are probably comparable in skill, they are also priests leaning on their gods.
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Again, you seem to be stuck in the "how dare you say it's not made of the Four Elements, you're saying it's not made of matter!" situation. Sevir, the substance of Aethyr in the world, is viewed as eight winds. But that doesn't mean it is eight winds.
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Again: Teclisian theory doesn't try to explain nearly all magic that isn't divine, it explains everything, period. It's just that there are things that don't fit in with the model it proposes. Teclisian theory is good at explaining its niche. Teclisian theory is not good at explaining why Sigmarite priests can heal or Elementalists can make earth golems.
All evidence points towards the fact that the material of the aethyr turns into the winds upon contact with reality. I'm waiting for your explanation how you think the 4 elements work. I've laid out the canon evidence of how the wind based magic works and how it seems to work for all non-divine magical traditions. Unless you have some novel new solution that no other magical tradition knows I see no point in continuing.
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I think that Teclis would investigate elementalists more if elementals were something High elves could not achieve with their magic. The most likely explanation is that they are similar to hedgewise in that they are using several winds in smaller amount.
Teclis probably just decided not to tell colleges so they don't try to recreate something they are incapable with single wind.
Teclis probably just decided not to tell colleges so they don't try to recreate something they are incapable with single wind.
It is not made of the eight winds, it objectively turns into the eight winds when it touches reality. Mathy has quite literally looked up in the sky and seek eight streams of colored power flowing south. All magic in the world comes from one of three sources:
- Polar gates: those spit out the eight winds which may or may not curdle into Dhar
- The gods: that is power aligned with the gods
- Hunks of Warpstone: that just decays to Dhar
And I admit that the theory is shit at explaining divine magic. They seem to fit in as a middleman existing in the aethyr but they are doing something that isn't the direct manipulation of winds with your soul.
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Mopman43
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The thing with the Hedgewise is that, because the amount of magic they use is so small so as to not even be the Winds, the effects they cause with that magic are also small, relatively speaking.
The effects the Elementalists can manage are more impressive. So there's the question on if that's really how they're doing it, when it should be impossible to get that level of impact off of a small enough amount of magic to not seperate into the Winds.
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There are dozens of possibilities. One I gave earlier is that the winds have binding elements between them, and the elementalists can manipulate those bindings. Another is that the eight winds are actually like the "seven colours of the rainbow" and part of a spectrum rather than individually separated things.
The word objectively is incorrect. Perceiving magic as eight winds is something the colleges train into their apprentices. Mathilde has made it very clear that windsight is affected by expectation.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
We have no idea how the elementalists do their magic but it's probably not something that takes the teclesian model and shatters it over the knee rather than finding an exception to the general rules. Divine magic is almost certainly a form of Qhaysh shaped by the gods and belief of the priest and fits into Teclesian model in that way.
The Teclesian model is informed by the Slann and frankly I'm going to take the model for magic that taught to the Elves by the Slann and the Slann by the Old ones over literally every thing else. Maybe it doesn't perfectly explain everything at first glance but it's certainly the best model in the setting and the exceptions likely have obvious reasons for working if its looked into properly.
The Teclesian model is informed by the Slann and frankly I'm going to take the model for magic that taught to the Elves by the Slann and the Slann by the Old ones over literally every thing else. Maybe it doesn't perfectly explain everything at first glance but it's certainly the best model in the setting and the exceptions likely have obvious reasons for working if its looked into properly.
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I was not aware the colleges were running a Kurgan exchange program, also someone seems to have invited Kairos Fateweaver and bound to poor Daemon's perceptions of magic to the eight winds.
Seriously from Daemons of the God of Magic to the Slann to those shamans the winds are too prevalent in too many unconnected places to be just a paradigm of many.
My best guess is that the Teclesian model is probably something like Newton's Theory of Gravity. It's brilliant and it seems to explain so much of the world, apart from a few tiny inconsistencies that are someday going to cause the entire model to have to be discarded in favor of something weirder and more nonsensical.
But for practical everyday purposes, it's great.
But for practical everyday purposes, it's great.
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Kurgan worship and use eight winds without any Teclisean education whatsoever.
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
I was not aware the colleges were running a Kurgan exchange program, also someone seems to have invited Kairos Fateweaver and bound to poor Daemon's perceptions of magic to the eight winds.
Seriously from Daemons of the God of Magic to the Slann to those shamans the winds are too prevalent in too many unconnected places to be just a paradigm of many.
Wasn't Volans perceiving the winds of magic as eight and distinct prior to Teclis teaching him as well? Another mark against the idea.
NavySeel
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Now I'm just imagining advertisements for the elementalist college.
"Teclis hates him, This pyromancer uses magic without the winds with ONE trick. Come to the Elementalist College in Nuln to find out how you can too!"