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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Dalmity said:
Sounds like Morghur was a walking waystone/herdstone experiment that got corrupted.
Maybe Morghur was something like the earth elemental in Karag Mhonar, a long forgotten magical collaboration between the Dwarfs and Elves.

The throwaway exposition by Asarnil was a hint, as it suggested the High Elves had ulterior motives to help take down Morghur.
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The thing is a living incarnation of Chaos and the ur-beastman. No one remotely sane needs an ulterior motive to kill him.
 
Valmond said:
I don't have a hypothesis, because i don't have enough data to form one.
Also, this is chaos wastes where childhood homes bite you and clouds hunt each other for food.
For all we know Morghul is able to just turn you into a beastman not through mutation, but by making it so you always were a beastman.
Or, the newly mutated beastmen get turned in the forest and mostly die there, the naturally grown beastmen sally out into the desert and die there, making the bone distribution wildly uneven, and we did not bump into any mutated ones.

Also, how old are the trees?
I don't mean how old they look, but how long they have existed (if linear time even applies), do they grow or do new trees just pop into being as the desert widens to keep ratio od desert to forest the same.

Again, the claim that mutation aura does not exist stands on shaky ground, we have not seen evidence of it, but we also have no knowledge on how it actually works in quest canon, nobody has done extensive (if any) study on it as far as we know.
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For all we know Mathilde is already a Chaos Spawn and is simply too insane to realize it yet. Is there any evidence of that? No, but we can't prove that she isn't.

the claim that the mutation aura does exist stands on shakier groundthan it not existing, since as you said, there is literally no evidence to support that, and the fact that noone has done any study on how it works is at least as much of an argument against its existence as for it.
 
wrecksalot said:
For all we know Mathilde is already a Chaos Spawn and is simply too insane to realize it yet. Is there any evidence of that? No, but we can't prove that she isn't.

the claim that the mutation aura does exist stands on shakier groundthan it not existing, since as you said, there is literally no evidence to support that, and the fact that noone has done any study on how it works is at least as much of an argument against its existence as for it.
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I am not claiming it does exist, again, i have no solid info either way.
We do know that this creature looks like Gordhum, we know that Gordhum is famous for his mutation aura.
We do not know how this mutation aura works, we do not know if mutation aura is always on, we do not know if runemasters of Karak Dum have done anything to the said mutation aura, if this being is actually Gordhum, instead of somekind of illusion.

But any actions we take based on the assumption that mutation aura does not exist, will be dangerous, if not quest ending, if wrong.
 
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So random thought, but with our whole "stolen dwarf soul" status, legally speaking, people are liable to tru and make sure we get the rites of Gazul before die, right? Unless we can convince them to let us keep being reincarnated as a human, of course, but I'm not sure that's possible. Anyways, so they're probably going to want somebody who can preform those rites with us should we walk into long-term danger. Normally that would be covered easily—there's always someone in large scale military actions, multiple even—but... what about the Elfcation? Where it's just us going on a long trip into long term danger. Would the Karaz Ankor try to send someone with us?

Probably not, but it's a funny thought to entertain. Imagine Mathilde trying to argue with the Lothern dockmasters that they have to let her dwarf priest buddy come ashore for cultural and religious reasons. :V
 
Valmond said:
Also, how old are the trees?
I don't mean how old they look, but how long they have existed (if linear time even applies), do they grow or do new trees just pop into being as the desert widens to keep ratio od desert to forest the same.
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I believe that they existed somewhere since before the War Against Chaos, even if they weren't here until recently.

That's on the grounds that the idea of trees growing into existence already 200+ years old hurts my brain.
Golden Eyed King said:
Honestly we set out to get some shit from a lost dorf hold and we recovered a lost hold instead and found this one was doing wierd shit, let's leave.
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But we could also do the thing we set out to do, too!
 
GrimTheMad said:
I've seen this assumption pop up multiple times with increasing surety, and now people are just outright saying its the case like its been confirmed.

It hasn't.

Also, its an entirely meta based argument.
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That's just an example.
Main point is the mystery origins of Morghur can be anything the QM wants it to be.
 
CornyBones said:
Two years after Cor Dum's defeat by the elves, Karak Dum warns of Chaos's waxing upon the earth.
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This raises more questions than it answers, but it does seem to lend credence to the co-opted Morghur theory.

Also, if I have the timeline right, this would mean they might have captured Morghur before Borek left - perhaps they captured him, and then decided that they'd only weaponize him if Borek couldn't gather reinforcements. Which would explain Borek's reaction to seeing Morghur pretty thoroughly.

It also explains why Morghur might try to warn us off - perhaps the Dum dwarves don't want to/ can't risk contact with dwarves or humans anymore, but still don't want to hurt us.

wrecksalot said:
I can't prove a negative, but you seem either unable or unwilling to provide a hypothesis where he has the mutation aura that doesn't contradict what we know at leas wrt the trees and borek, although admittedly, the dwarves hiding chaos spawn bones for giggles is one way the lack of chaos spawn bones alone wouldn't immediately rule it out.
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What about this: Morghur has always been able to apply his aura selectively, but until he was co-opted by Dum, he never had a reason to. Thus, we see mutated human bones around, but Borek, a Dum native, and the tree which support the beastman army, are not mutated.

...wait a second. I could have sworn backwards and sideways I remember a passage from one of the two updates describing "Human, Not-quite-Human and horse bones", but it's definitely not there now. @BoneyM, did you edit that out or have I just lost the plot?
 
Elf Dockworker: You? a Dwarf?
Mathilde: Yes.
Elf Dockworker: I don't believe you.
MAthilde It's true.
ED: How?
M: You know Karag Vlag? The dwarf hold that went missing and Teclis could not find?
ED: Yes...?
M: Well i found it, and pulled it out of the warp, everyone was very impressed. /smug :V
 
Dalmity said:
Sounds like Morghur was a walking waystone/herdstone experiment that got corrupted.
Maybe Morghur was something like the earth elemental in Karag Mhonar, a long forgotten magical collaboration between the Dwarfs and Elves.

The throwaway exposition by Asarnil was a hint, as it suggested the High Elves had ulterior motives to help take down Morghur.
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DragonParadox said:
The thing is a living incarnation of Chaos and the ur-beastman. No one remotely sane needs an ulterior motive to kill him.
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I mean, they also had an ulterior motive, because Ariel thought dragging a mutation fountain of a Chaos avatar to the Oak of Ages and stealing his power was a good idea.

Thankfully most elves seem to just want to kill him instead.
 
Guile said:
But we could also do the thing we set out to do, too!
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The thing we set out to do was 'evacuate any survivors of Karag Dum' and I think its pretty clear that that goal is either unnecessary, unwanted, or both by the dwarves in question.

Right now we're a rescue party with no one to rescue, the rest of the expedition only agreed to stick around because the people we were supposed to be evacuating might turn out to be threats and getting information on that is valuable.

'What we set out to do' doesn't seem to be on the table anymore.
 
Could the Runemasters of Karak Dum have created their own Glittering Realm (which is why they call themselves Runemasters)? Could their mastery or use of magic be such that it cannot be differentiated from divine magic, nay are functionally identical?

I remember Mathilde and Johann found the most useless magical artifact which protected from the 8 Winds but not Qhyash or Dhar or Divine Magic (Not sure about that last part, could someone check it?) Could something similar be happening here? It wasn't tested against Runic Magic either iirc.
 
Ericwinter said:
So random thought, but with our whole "stolen dwarf soul" status, legally speaking, people are liable to tru and make sure we get the rites of Gazul before die, right? Unless we can convince them to let us keep being reincarnated as a human, of course, but I'm not sure that's possible. Anyways, so they're probably going to want somebody who can preform those rites with us should we walk into long-term danger. Normally that would be covered easily—there's always someone in large scale military actions, multiple even—but... what about the Elfcation? Where it's just us going on a long trip into long term danger. Would the Karaz Ankor try to send someone with us?

Probably not, but it's a funny thought to entertain. Imagine Mathilde trying to argue with the Lothern dockmasters that they have to let her dwarf priest buddy come ashore for cultural and religious reasons. :V
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The elves would probably find it hilarious enough to allow it. 'Look at how far the dwarfs have fallen that they have to accept a human, a wizard as one of them.'
 
GrimTheMad said:
The thing we set out to do was 'evacuate any survivors of Karag Dum' and I think its pretty clear that that goal is either unnecessary, unwanted, or both by the dwarves in question.

Right now we're a rescue party with no one to rescue, the rest of the expedition only agreed to stick around because the people we were supposed to be evacuating might turn out to be threats and getting information on that is valuable.

'What we set out to do' doesn't seem to be on the table anymore.
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How sure can you be of that? I kinda feel like we know less about Karag Dum now than when our convoy started trundling north.

We have no idea if they're still fine in there or statues or beastmen or corpses or honorary Nehekharans or what the fuck
 
Guile said:
How sure can you be of that? I kinda feel like we know less about Karag Dum now than when our convoy started trundling north.

We have no idea if they're still fine in there or statues or beastmen or corpses or honorary Nehekharans or what the fuck
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Ah but we do know one important thing we did not know before, Borek of Karak Dum is an honorless traitor who abandoned those he was supposed to lead. Add the silent hold and 'they don't want or need help' is an entirely reasonable conclusion.
 
BelligerentGnu said:
What about this: Morghur has always been able to apply his aura selectively, but until he was co-opted by Dum, he never had a reason to. Thus, we see mutated human bones around, but Borek, a Dum native, and the tree which support the beastman army, are not mutated.

...wait a second. I could have sworn backwards and sideways I remember a passage from one of the two updates describing "Human, Not-quite-Human and horse bones", but it's definitely not there now. @BoneyM, did you edit that out or have I just lost the plot?
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Well, there's a hypothesis that lets Morghur have his aura and only runs into the problem of the lack of chaos spawn or chaos spawn bones. Combined with the hypothesis that either the beastmen or the dwwarves are hiding the bones from us for giggles that's at least not impossible given the information we have. In that case, I propose that we ask Morghur for entrance, since this lets us find out what's up with Karag Dum without prompting him to use his aura. It makes infiltration a bit harder if we fail, but that's an acceptable risk to me, since the chances of bypassing the need to infiltrate should be better than any difficulty increase from talking with him.
 
DragonParadox said:
Ah but we do know one important thing we did not know before, Borek of Karak Dum is an honorless traitor who abandoned those he was supposed to lead. Add the silent hold and 'they don't want or need help' is an entirely reasonable conclusion.
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Yeah, maybe.

Maybe he's sitting in there amidst 30,000 Dwarven corpses formed into the shape of a Stalwart Rune like people doing the YMCA.
 
Guile said:
How sure can you be of that? I kinda feel like we know less about Karag Dum now than when our convoy started trundling north.

We have no idea if they're still fine in there or statues or beastmen or corpses or honorary Nehekharans or what the fuck
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Way more sure than I am that we can check without exploding into chaos spawn. :V

More seriously: Not as sure as I'd like, but given Borek's actions and the lack of any signals whatsoever from within Karag Dum, I'm fairly certain that the only way we could find out would be infiltrating the Karag itself and I really don't want to explode into chaos spawn.

If we get any sign at all that they actually want help I will be 150% there but the sum total of the actions that have been requested of us by Dum is 'tell them we did our best'.

Ultimately I'm just not willing to risk everything to help those that don't seem to want or need help.
 
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