- Location
- some computer lab
Morghur the Shadowgave is not known for his headpats. He presumably didn't just show up when the expedition arrived, so there being a regular forest here is more than a slight discrepancy in warping.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
-
- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
[X] THEORY: there is still an uncorrupted dwarfhold somewhere in there.(based on the waystone situation)
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
I am also on Team Good (or at least well-intentioned) Karag Dum, but that doesn't change the fact that they've been consorting with at least one beastman. (I have heard plausible theories that Morghur is fake or that the rest of the beast men are, but not both.)
Borek hopes the Ancestor Gods will forgive Karag Dum. He knows the rest of the Karaz Ankor will not.
EDIT: The best possible Dwarven interpretation of the Dum situation is "they willingly damned themselves to protect the rest of us". That does not make them any less damned.
EDIT2: That is also a conclusion Mathilde can reach from what she already knows, no investigation required.
Last edited:
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
If we assume Morghur to be a disguised runelord, it'd be pretty easy for the rest of the "Beastmen" to just be wooden puppets moving around the background.
Mathilde hasn't seen anything other than shadows, which she then assumes to be Beastmen due to the very visible Beastman demigod.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
"Being born?"
[checks notes]
"Yep, says here that one 'Mathilde Weber' was born back in the 2450's, and that's been recorded as the cause of a grudge. You been born and precedent's clear on the matter: That's a grudgin'"
Last edited:
What would Dwarven Beastmen look like? We know Slave God turns them into centaurs
super centaurs?
super centaurs?
The counters to that have been brought up several times before:
1. Why bother faking Morghur of all things, except to manipulate beastmen? (Or possibly false-flag wood elves, but Karag Dum wouldn't want to get attacked more.
2. If Morghur and the beastmen are fake, what atrocity has Borek convinced the Karaz Ankor will never forgive them?
- Location
- some computer lab
Pretending to use Morghur and beastmen probably count for 2, and a beastmen guarding a herdstone probably draws less aggro than a dwarfhold would.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
No conversion necessary; Cor Dum has a feature where beastmen will travel literally thousands of miles just to try not to explode from Cor Dum proximity, in exchange for mad religious chops
Beastmen are weird
As has also been pointed out multiple times before, Rangers use deception all the time. Borek's reaction implies this is far worse than that.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
You could say that Cor Dum makes them dum-dum.
... Oh come on, it's been over a hundred pages, someone had to make that pun!
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Karag Dum prided itself on the fact that it held the line against chaos. If they switched to instead hiding from chaos with tricks that is probably quite soul-breaking to that pride. And that is enough for a dwarf to beg forgiveness and go slayer. So it is enough for Borek to believe they are no longer welcome.
Remember, we watched a young dwarf go slayer for no reason other than he was not a particularly adept warrior. Dwarves are weird. Their pride and honor can break them over things that we would find perfectly acceptable or understandable.
We know too little of what is going on. Things do not add up. Mathilde was quite explicit about that. Whatever is going on we need to know more, in order to make a meaningful report instead of "being honest I have about 300 different theories, none of which fully explain it."
Last edited:
- Location
- Classified
If this is Borek being melodramatic, I genuinely no-memes want to punch him in the face. Leaving it off like that guarantees that all of Karag Dum's going to get written off by the Karaz Ankor and Order at large.
The illusion/fake Morghur theories just don't satisfy me, though. I doubt they could continuously fool god knows how many Norscans and Beastmen for however long it's been, and it just feels too clean, for lack of a better word. "The only thing wrong with Karag Dum is just a coat of paint". This deep in the Wastes, and with the stakes this high, I have to believe there's something solid beneath all of this.
The illusion/fake Morghur theories just don't satisfy me, though. I doubt they could continuously fool god knows how many Norscans and Beastmen for however long it's been, and it just feels too clean, for lack of a better word. "The only thing wrong with Karag Dum is just a coat of paint". This deep in the Wastes, and with the stakes this high, I have to believe there's something solid beneath all of this.
Last edited:
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It does not. Dum was linked to the Karaz Ankor overland.
That's basically the explicit design of this vote: Boney is taking some number of highly-voted-for theories and actions and they will be presented as possibilities by Mathilde in the next update. Based on how the council reacts, we'll have another vote.
- Location
- some computer lab
And as I have pointed out several times before, we've seen a similar reaction from Belegar to just using rangers to reclaim K8P, so I disagree with the notion that it has to be something worse.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Yeah, everyone should recall belegar and everyone at k8p is basically ultra-radical for dwarves, due largely to humans and nontraditional tactics (along with aid from young holds). This means that we have a poor measuring stick for what dwarves will go "welp, we're disowned from Karaz Ankor" due to.
Things could be unforgivably awful, yeah. But the space between "dwarves will banish themselves/go slayer" and "mathilde would find it unacceptable" is rather large.
- Location
- Philippines
There's a difference between thinking your damned and being damned.
Borek might be the former, when he thinks of Karag Dum, Its Mathilde's duty to see which of the two is really the truth.
Borek might be the former, when he thinks of Karag Dum, Its Mathilde's duty to see which of the two is really the truth.
- Location
- some computer lab
Yeah, and even the measuring stick might be longer than Borek would know, due to the runaway success of the K8P expedition making more radical ideas a bit more tolerable.
- Location
- Classified
There's a bit of a gap between the existence of Rangers and pretending to be Chaos, to say the least.
- Location
- Philippines
I've updated the theories to include the Comprehensive SSS theory something about the runes of Valaya, and dwarves adopting Morghur instead of being given to the forest altering his fundamental nature or something.
tapkomet
Senātus Populusque Rōmānus
- Location
- Ukraine
Don't forget that, like, it's a spectrum. On the scale of heresy, we have several options:
1. Things Dwarfs consider radical, but not unforgivable
2. Things a Dwarf might consider unforgivable applied to themselves, but other Dwarfs probably would not
3. Things that Dwarfs would consider unforgivable, but not the Empire (and perhaps not Belegar)
4. Things that the Empire would consider extremely controversial
5. Things that the Empire would consider unacceptable, but the Grey College might not
6. Things that the Grey College would consider unforgivable unless for a very good reason
7. Things that the Grey College would consider unforgivable period
Judging by Borek's reaction, we can probably safely rule out 1, and 2 is tenuous, but if something from 3-6 is at play, we probably want to learn about it and possibly derive some benefit for Order from it, be it by aiding Dum, having them provide info to us, coordinating against the next Everchosen, or whatever. And if it's 7, we also probably want to learn the specifics if possible, if only to have an estimate of when to expect the veteran Dwarf-equipped Shadowgave-led Beastmen invasion or whatever.
1. Things Dwarfs consider radical, but not unforgivable
2. Things a Dwarf might consider unforgivable applied to themselves, but other Dwarfs probably would not
3. Things that Dwarfs would consider unforgivable, but not the Empire (and perhaps not Belegar)
4. Things that the Empire would consider extremely controversial
5. Things that the Empire would consider unacceptable, but the Grey College might not
6. Things that the Grey College would consider unforgivable unless for a very good reason
7. Things that the Grey College would consider unforgivable period
Judging by Borek's reaction, we can probably safely rule out 1, and 2 is tenuous, but if something from 3-6 is at play, we probably want to learn about it and possibly derive some benefit for Order from it, be it by aiding Dum, having them provide info to us, coordinating against the next Everchosen, or whatever. And if it's 7, we also probably want to learn the specifics if possible, if only to have an estimate of when to expect the veteran Dwarf-equipped Shadowgave-led Beastmen invasion or whatever.
Last edited:
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
And despite the distance that remains an actual (albeit unlikely) possibility because of the fact that those are imperial forests, which means there may be some sort of shortcut the beastmen army can use.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If that's Morghur it's not impossible for one to transmute into existence from something else.
tapkomet
Senātus Populusque Rōmānus
- Location
- Ukraine
... the real question is, can Morghur be harnessed to transmute things into delicious burritos?