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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Glau said:
Personally, the worst outcome for us now is a significantly intact dwarfhold that wants to evacuate. We have neither the space not the material to help at all relevantly, and getting a large population through chaos dwarf territory without being enslaved, much less expecting to procure food from then, would be a nightmare.
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That probably gets responded to with most of the party joining the garrison and the fastest of us (math and deathfang, presumably) running to civilization with word and probably the King's seal or something. We'd have an army magiced up to evacuate them in relatively short order, now that their relatively intact and alive status is known.

Also the 5 would have been best on Godrick's survival roll. Injuries are nothing we can't handle with the seed.
 
Glau said:
I'm honestly seeing this as karmic payback for us getting greedy and spending a week on Vlag at the beginning. We made the decision that we had enough of a safety margin and were willing to risk failure and massacre over a target of opportunity, of course fate is going to bite back.
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I mean, if we hadn't, we'd be in exactly the same place we are now.
 
[x]Press on

Karag Dum was connected to the network through Vlag, wich was lost in the wrap until very recently. Having reactivated the whole connection, I want to see the result.
 
We know Dum's Waystone is intact and functional. Which could have just been left that way so they could keep playing with Vlag, but it does increase the odds of the Karak still being in dwarven hands noticably.

The supply issue is honestly irrelevant if we find the hold with more than a hundred or two dwarves left anyway. As at that point other logistical concerns become paramount.
 
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Glau said:
Odd case would be the dwarves basically surviving more or less fine, under siege, but in a nice bubble of reality kept running by their waystone. (Honestly, with Borek knowing secrets, is possible the king of Dum could do something like actively control the focus of the waystone suction to evaporate demons as an at-will AoE) In that case, we restock, catch them up, plan, and maybe overwinter.

Bad case is we get there and it is empty and destroyed or full of gribblies- we stand off, scout with ulgu, loot, and leave.
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I think all the talk of waystones may have given people odd sense what they really are. They aren't magic Order pinatas with powers as the plot demands. There basically Golden Age plumbing for excess magic. You still need either a specific enchantment to do specific repetitive work, like keep a light burning or an intelligent actor to do complicated things like banish daemons who really don't want to be banished and have their own magic to contest that fact.

Think about the trouble we had trying to brainstorm an interactive map for K8P. Now take that imagine a system that can not only identify daemons doing their best to hide their nature swat the away when they have the home field advantage.

Glau said:
Maybe? Maybe we'd have run into the ogres instead, being a week earlier. It's more about about metaphorical focus and hubris.
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Not sure how that follows, Mathilde went and did wizard things to the Vlag waystone and it worked perfectly, then the landships tried to to their job of getting up the slope and failed. If you are going to blame anything besides random chance then it's the fault of the dwarfs for choosing to use landships in the first place.
 
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Thats a fair point, we can try and resupply at Karak Vlag. Coming back from Dum desperetely needing food is going to be unexpected from a tempter plot perspective.
 
Glau said:
Yes but also lol no. They are more likely to shoot us than anything.
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True, but it's still some additional options. It's a fortified position, and we could fortifiy in another part. And it's not like they'll ignore whatever is chasing us. Or we could go up and say, "We surrender, you can chain us up to make sure" and probably have enough doubt in them to give it a go.

Even in the worst case, it's better than blank stone.
 
BurnNote said:
True, but it's still some additional options. It's a fortified position, and we could fortifiy in another part. And it's not like they'll ignore whatever is chasing us. Or we could go up and say, "We surrender, you can chain us up to make sure" and probably have enough doubt in them to give it a go.

Even in the worst case, it's better than blank stone.
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The main issue isn't so much something chasing us as not having enough food. A closed door is exactly as much of a problem in that situation as blank stone.
 
DragonParadox said:
You still need either a specific enchantment to do specific repetitive work, like keep a light burning or an intelligent actor to do complicated things like banish daemons who really don't want to be banished and have their own magic to contest that fact.

Think about the trouble we had trying to brainstorm an interactive map for K8P. Now take that imagine a system that can not only identify daemons doing their best to hide their nature swat the away when they have the home field advantage.
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Being fair, I suppose if any Hold were going to have some kind of Great Work with anti-Chaos or anti-Daemon focus, it'd probably be Karag Dum. The Hold that last saw Grimnir, and venerates him as The Foe of Chaos.

They probably just have normal protections and stuff though. (Well, normal compared to "A Great Work of the Ancestor Gods themselves" I mean.) And less of those by now, after the 180-year siege.


How the hell was Karag Dum normally maintaining contact with the rest of the Karaz Ankor? Before Asavar Kul came?

Or is the answer to that "It didn't, mostly; its contact was even more tenuous than that of Karak Azul"?

Did they use the Underway or something @BoneyM? Or was it via gyrocopter? Or the extremely rare and extremely well-guarded caravan?
 
Supply wise it feels like Mathilde could just ride ahead of the convoy and buy them in pragg. Hiring a merchant to take them as far as vlagg. That may end up being late, but a day or two without food is unpleasant, not fatal.
 
DragonParadox said:
The main issue isn't so much something chasing us as not having enough food. A closed door is exactly as much of a problem in that situation as blank stone.
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That's why I added the surrender option. They get to do whatever they feel necessary to keep save, and the expedition gets food. They'll probably get held for a while, but better than starving.

Sure, they could totally refuse to help, but even then we're no worse off. And I don't think the chances are that high, since they've had a chance to poke around and also because they'd risk letting their saviors starve. That seems like a very uncomfortable thought to dwarves.
 
BurnNote said:
That's why I added the surrender option. They get to do whatever they feel necessary to keep save, and the expedition gets food. They'll probably get held for a while, but better than starving.

Sure, they could totally refuse to help, but even then we're no worse off. And I don't think the chances are that high, since they've had a chance to poke around and also because they'd risk letting their saviors starve. That seems like a very uncomfortable thought to dwarves.
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The Daemons probably tried 'surrendering' to inflict maximum suffering and false hope more than once too. it's not like death means anything to them.
 
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Garlak said:
How the hell was Karag Dum normally maintaining contact with the rest of the Karaz Ankor? Before Asavar Kul came?

Or is the answer to that "It didn't, mostly; its contact was even more tenuous than that of Karak Azul"?
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Pretty sure that is the answer. Karag Dum has been semi-isolated since the end of the Golden Age, because no one can spare the resources to reinforce them.
 
Speking of which, unless our cavalry gets decimated on the wastes, we are almost forced to go back to Uzkulak to buy some food on the way back, even counting with the food that we may buy from the Dolgan we can only carry supplies for 2 weeks... Even if we manage to leave Dum with our supplies full, it is going to be we are a long way from the relative safety of Kislev
 
For all that we should be somewhat wary of hunger, so long as we are in the chaos wastes we stand a good chance to be able to trade for food or at least get a steady supply of horsemeat brought to us... whether we want it or not.
 
DragonParadox said:
The Daemons probably tried 'surrendering' to inflict maximum suffering and false hope more than once too. it's not like death means anything to them.
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I doubt it honestly. Slaanesh is not the sort to go with "we're your friends who are in dire straits" as a temptation. "we're your enemies you can torture" or "we're your friends you can party with" both make sense for it, but friends who need dire help? Nurgle or Tzeentch might try that, but Slaanesh wouldn't.
 
Now that Vlag's back they might be able to set up long range gyrocopters and at least keep in contact.

Although maybe not, since helicopters tend to crash even when the laws of physics are working normally.
 
DragonParadox said:
The Daemons probably tried 'surrendering' to inflict maximum suffering and false hope more than once too. it's not like death means anything to them.
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kingreaper said:
I doubt it honestly. Slaanesh is not the sort to go with "we're your friends who are in dire straits" as a temptation. "we're your enemies you can torture" or "we're your friends you can party with" both make sense for it, but friends who need dire help? Nurgle or Tzeentch might try that, but Slaanesh wouldn't.
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Plus, one option is "Ok, stay over there and we'll drop some".

And I honestly doubt a daemon would try a pretend surrender. Because a runesmith given a chance to prepare on an unresisting target is one of the few things that stands a chance of truly killing a daemon (while not harming mortals). Or even just binding it, which is the second worst thing for a Slaanesh demon.
 
Even if all the other food ideas (hunting, buying at chaos dwarf place) fail we could cut down the rations for the final trip back and make it intact. I would imagine it would be unpleasant, and would likely incur various penalties, but I would imagine that - while unpleasant - we could stretch 2 weeks supplies to 3 weeks without starving with everyone on 2/3 rations.

Though that does pose a potential issue if the skaven or CD scouts notice that malnutrition, and interpret it as weakness. Might prompt an attack on the way back, so it's not ideal. Better if we could just purchase or hunt more food.
 
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