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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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King Arthur said:
If we were going to go Necromancy on Chaos Vegas we'd cause a fight to break out in the trading areas which we know causes the Chaos Dwarves to kill literally every guest in the city, then use stealth + smoke and mirrors to reach the top of the giant tower in the center of the city and use burning shadows, and we know we can use a buildings shadow for this spell without too much prep work as we had the option to use the Citadel in the same manner when it was under enemy control.

Then, when everyone is ascending the tower to try and reach us, we use Necromancy to revive all of the corpses in the city, and there'd be a ton at this point, and have our zombie army crash into them while their out of formation and going the wrong way.

Easy.

Edit: not that we should use Necromancy, just pointing out that Mattie wouldn't just forget she has other skills if she did become a necromancer
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On the other hand, if we start from the inside we are pretty much trapped there with a limited amount of corpses.
 
EVA-Saiyajin said:
We're not using necromancy. It is very difficult to not put forth a lot more vitriol, but suffice to say this infernal topic getting dragged up again is unbelievably aggravating.
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Just ignore it. The point being made is that it will literally always come up because it is genuinely a quick path to a great deal of power, and that the thread will pretty much never go for it anyway.
 
Sparsebeard said:
On the other hand, if we start from the inside we are pretty much trapped there with a limited amount of corpses.
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Uzkulak is described as a fortified tomb. Many, many malcontents, thieves et al have been murdered in the marketplace or dragged down into the lower levels and left to their fates. I'm not saying we'd necessarily raise an army in there, Hashut IS down in the deeps somewhere and that skews the odds a bit, but it's not out of the question, either.
Sparsebeard said:
Skaven and undead both make liberal use of swarms though. Dwarven holds can be taken, but often it's a slog fought corridor by corridor over decades or centuries.

Numbers are less of an advantage if you can't bring them to bear efficiently.

Then again, unless the underpass is controlled by the CD, they'd probably be unable to receive reinforcements.
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Do those armies of swarming mooks typically consist entirely of giant beasts which give the Zorn Uzkul its name, which have traveled to the Great Skull Land since time immemorial to die and litter the place with their bones?

Great Necromancer Mathilde would be like a regular necromancer, but replace the 'skeleton' mook that makes up the bulk of necromancer armies with like, manticores or some shit.
 
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EVA-Saiyajin said:
We're not using necromancy. It is very difficult to not put forth a lot more vitriol, but suffice to say this infernal topic getting dragged up again is unbelievably aggravating.
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Too bad.

It is an eternal undercurrent within mathildes brain.

I agree thats it's likely to never actually happen unless some real shit goes down.

But its fun imagining what if.
 
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Derpmind said:
It's a little hard to completely forget that you could potentially become the most powerful magic wielder in the entire world, raise nation-conquering armies, and even bring those you've lost back from the other side. Especially when your brain's, like, 10% Ulgu. She'd never do it; she's forbidden herself from taking even one AP step down that path. But a shadowmancer's mind is accustomed to what-ifs.
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Eh, most powerful on the entire world is a severe overstatement. Sure, a LM necromancer with a protective belt will shoot up the tiers and will be a threat to armies as a single being, but in a world with Teclis, Malekith, Nagash, Vlad von Carstein, Nefertata, Kroak (in fact, make it the Slann in general), whoever the tomb kings have and spellcasting gods with souped up spellcasting servants like Tzeench, Slaanesh, Nurgle, the Horned Rat, Hoeth, the Ancient Widow and the Lady there is no way we will become the top dog of spellcasting even with LM tier necromancy.

We'll probably become the strongest in the Empire though. Assuming Vlad doesn't count because of his predicament.
 
The Game said:
Secret quest victory condition: Get Mathilde declared an Ancestor God by the Karaz Ankor.
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No the reward for a job well done is more work.
Evilness42 said:
I want to respond by saying that the dead never tire, but according to Total War Warhammer their magical bindings deteriorate over periods of sustained activity, which coincidentally has the exact same result as getting tired and thus makes it easier on the programmers.
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That's if the necromancer doesn't know the first secret.
 
[x] Citharus, Barbitus, and Timpania
[x] Use Rite of Way for the worst patches of rough terrain
[x] Attempt to make contact with the Dolgan
[x] Attempt to make contact with the Yusak
 
Klaus said:
Frederick Van Hal fought the skaven to a standstill with the merest fraction of our power. Remember what he accomplished and then multiply by "Lord Magister."
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Van Hal could weild Necromancy while only slowly poisoning himself. If we go down the path of Necromancy I want to first see if we can use Ulgu in the place of Shyish and if that isn't viable for our megalomaniac plans I want to test how trace amounts of Shyish bending affect our soul and brainmeats. And at least a turn or so of actual training in the Dark Arts we would be embracing. The idea that we are already a perfect Necromancer just because we read the perfect book is ludicrously optimistic.
 
Rafin said:
Van Hal could weild Necromancy while only slowly poisoning himself. If we go down the path of Necromancy I want to first see if we can use Ulgu in the place of Shyish and if that isn't viable for our megalomaniac plans I want to test how trace amounts of Shyish bending affect our soul and brainmeats. And at least a turn or so of actual training in the Dark Arts we would be embracing. The idea that we are already a perfect Necromancer just because we read the perfect book is ludicrously optimistic.
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Isn't part of the allure of the dark arts that they are easy, as long as you do not care about the nuclear radiation anyway?
 
The dark arts are not really going to become tempting until and unless we exhaust all other routes to power which looking at our research and training backlog seems unlikely to happen. Also becoming a black magister cuts us off from most of those other routes to power. The longer we put it off and the stronger we get in general the greater the multipler from black magic becomes.

Imagine playing a RPG with a button that says "Double all stats once you use this you can no longer ever gain anymore XP" in a system where you are unlikely to ever reach the level cap. That is ignoring the possible mental effects.
 
storryeater said:
Isn't part of the allure of the dark arts that they are easy, as long as you do not care about the nuclear radiation anyway?
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Well, personally I do care about the radiation and I think that even if things become so dire that the Necromancy faction wins, collectively we still would want to preserve her brainmeats for as long as we can manage. Also there's a difference between easy enough to become a terrifying menace to the local region after not even having been a Wizard and easy enough to destroy Uzkulak within moments after first touching Dhar. Mathilde is smart, talented and educated. She still needed actual swimming lessons. And I doubt Necromancy is literally easier than swimming.
 
storryeater said:
Isn't part of the allure of the dark arts that they are easy, as long as you do not care about the nuclear radiation anyway?
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I think in this context, it is important to distinguish between Academic Necromancy and Lore of Vampires. As evidenced by Liber Mortis, these are two very different beasts, even if they produce the same effects, are both commonly known in-universe as just necromancy and even their users often make no distinction between them.

Lore of Vampires is easy and dirty. Every magic user can manipulate dhar directly (and is tempted to do just that in presence of dhar, as evidenced by our Sylvanian campaign), and this approach is exactly that: grabbing Dhar with your soul, grabbing some Shyish with your dhar and weaving them into a necromantic spell. Easy, effective and incredibly toxic (unless you are a vampire, then it's just easy and effective). This is the type of necromancy Mathilde can do just fine right now - and the type of necromancy which warps you into a dhar-damaged lunatic, no matter how fancy your protections are.

Academic Necromancy is grabbing Shyish with your soul and grabbing Dhar with you Shyish and weaving them into spell. It is the style Van Hal used, and this is the style Vlad believed to be safe for mortal practitioners - even after Van Hal went bonkers (notably after years, as opposed to months of practining necromany) which he attributed to ambient dhar poisoning due to all the dhat from necromantic constructs just being around. This is the style which, if Vlad is right, a practitioner with rune of Valaya's Vengeance should be able to practice safely - and which we are unable to use, because our soul is Ulgu.
 
Kornet said:
I think in this context, it is important to distinguish between Academic Necromancy and Lore of Vampires. As evidenced by Liber Mortis, these are two very different beasts, even if they produce the same effects, are both commonly known in-universe as just necromancy and even their users often make no distinction between them.

Lore of Vampires is easy and dirty. Every magic user can manipulate dhar directly (and is tempted to do just that in presence of dhar, as evidenced by our Sylvanian campaign), and this approach is exactly that: grabbing Dhar with your soul, grabbing some Shyish with your dhar and weaving them into a necromantic spell. Easy, effective and incredibly toxic (unless you are a vampire, then it's just easy and effective). This is the type of necromancy Mathilde can do just fine right now - and the type of necromancy which warps you into a dhar-damaged lunatic, no matter how fancy your protections are.

Academic Necromancy is grabbing Shyish with your soul and grabbing Dhar with you Shyish and weaving them into spell. It is the style Van Hal used, and this is the style Vlad believed to be safe for mortal practitioners - even after Van Hal went bonkers (notably after years, as opposed to months of practining necromany) which he attributed to ambient dhar poisoning due to all the dhat from necromantic constructs just being around. This is the style which, if Vlad is right, a practitioner with rune of Valaya's Vengeance should be able to practice safely - and which we are unable to use, because our soul is Ulgu.
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Is there any reason why it has to be Shyish instead of any other wind like Ulgu?
 
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