NavySeel
"I don't know what I'm doing."
- Location
- Places
Ah so you're not a Brettonian.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
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- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
But in the given scenario there would be proof that there is a necromancer within the upper ranks of the grey college, namely the scrolls we would write. They just wouldnt know exactly which person it is. This shouldnt be too many of them. Some of them would probably not be able to make such scrolls even if they wanted, so this limits the list of suspects a bit more.
And given how much of a scare scenario a high positioned, extremly powerful necromancer would be, i would have assumed they could get away with less concrete proof
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- Location
- Finland
Brettonia Debate, round #384, FIGHT!
Just referring back to this, but no, not really. The Old Ones apparently imprinted their language on the Aethyr, so magical languages are actually magical, having a resonance with Aethyr and the Winds derived from it.
Beyond that, a magical language has the grammar and breadth of vocabulary needed to encode spells so people can comprehend them and share their understanding.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
Every Grey LM would at first only know that they themselves got this highly suspicious letter. And only after having deciphered enough of it to know how scary the knowledge within actually is. It's using a Grey College internal cypher after all and was apparently sent by a "Grey".
After a bit of digging they'd probably learn that some plurality of their fellow Grey LM also got a highly suspect package under similar circumstances. And if they then communicate openly with each other (instead of defaulting to paranoid knowledge compartmentalization) they might unveil that everyone got an identical heretic spell instruction during an emergency meeting in the Ulgu bubble dimension outside the College walls. At that point someone has to decide that the whole circle of eight is so compromised that they snitch and seek outside intervention. Which most likely would take the form of a special taskforce of non-Grey Masters Vigilant. Maybe Starke leaks to the High Theogonist or the Emperor in despair.
Those are all a lot of not super likely steps that would have to happen before the Cult of Sigmar wver hears of the debacle.
After a bit of digging they'd probably learn that some plurality of their fellow Grey LM also got a highly suspect package under similar circumstances. And if they then communicate openly with each other (instead of defaulting to paranoid knowledge compartmentalization) they might unveil that everyone got an identical heretic spell instruction during an emergency meeting in the Ulgu bubble dimension outside the College walls. At that point someone has to decide that the whole circle of eight is so compromised that they snitch and seek outside intervention. Which most likely would take the form of a special taskforce of non-Grey Masters Vigilant. Maybe Starke leaks to the High Theogonist or the Emperor in despair.
Those are all a lot of not super likely steps that would have to happen before the Cult of Sigmar wver hears of the debacle.
- Location
- Brazil
Afaik, Praestiana really is just the set of menemonics and descriptions for weird magical properties.
Mathilde thinks and casts in Praestiana, I'm highly skeptical of the benefits of Arcane Khazalid or Elf Magic Language.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
That's a load of bullshit. Several seperate loads, actually.
First, "everybody" who knows who the Grey Patriarch is are full magisters of the order
I'd like to add that point 1 is very contested, a case can be made that the issue of metaphysical corruption was successfully solved by academic necromancy, with Von Carstein's epilogue to Liber Mortis essentially being an article on this.
Point 2, however, is the reason dhar manipulation faction is essentially down to OmegaHugger. ( and Ninjafish on some days )
- Location
- Russia
Wolf speaks it, so it has to be an actual language.
Language encodes though. Learning other magical languages will hopefully increase the breadth and nuance of what she can magically describe.
Magical languages are magical in of themselves. We've seen that in this quest, where speaking lingua praestina causes fluctuations in the Winds of Magic.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Not really. It's a lot of Old Reikspiel spliced together with Eltharin. One of the things about divine casting that might have lead Teclis to believe that priests are just casting magic and thinking it is power from a god is that most prayers and incantations known to priests are in Old Reikspiel, hence why in the RPG priests also get the Speak Arcane Language(Magick) skill that wizards have.
Interestingly, Hedge Wizards don't have that skill to represent their status of being largely self-taught, meaning they have to roll an extra dice that doesn't count for meeting the casting threshold but can still trigger miscasts. If at any point they learn the skill, they stop having to do that.
- Location
- Brazil
Oh yeah, sure. I meant, as far as I know, it's not really more, or less, source-code of reality than magic eltharin or magic khazalid.
Does a normal person speaking praestiana cause magic? Otherwise it seems like the wizard speaking is doing magic because that's his magic language and some fluctuations happen out of sheer reflex.
Mathilde has accrued a lifetime of code and programs and apps in a specific source code, I.e., her own understanding of ulgu using praestiana.
Maybe we could get an insight or two from other stuff, yeah. But it seems to me we have better things to do unless learning those is an absolute requirement for a specific job, simply because while there might be a thing or two we can port over, we are reaching the highest ends of the Praestiana tech tree, so to speak, while we'd be picking lowest hanging fruit off of everything else.
Anything we do must be ported over to our own understanding of magic, because casting is simply that personal.
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We've run out of conventional things to learn under the Collegiate paradigm. We need to start branching out. Aonoquean and Arcane Khazalid are ways to start doing that, taking whatever insights from them that we can to extend our own understanding and ability to express it.
Lingua Praestina is a bastardised grandchild of Aonquean anyway, cut down in scope and depth to make it easier for beginner human wizards to learn quickly.
Aonoquean and Arcane Khazalid are almost certainly the language that the magic that makes Waystones work is encoded in, which is a very good reason to learn them anyway.
Lingua Praestina is a bastardised grandchild of Aonquean anyway, cut down in scope and depth to make it easier for beginner human wizards to learn quickly.
Aonoquean and Arcane Khazalid are almost certainly the language that the magic that makes Waystones work is encoded in, which is a very good reason to learn them anyway.
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- Location
- Greece
This is not 40k, attempting to do so will:
1) Turn all the colleges against them, and they control the nukes
2)turn any rational Emperor against them
3) Turn anyone that wants to have a good relationship with the elves against them.
Thats without even measuring what each LM can bring to the table. Solely in the grey college, they'll have to fight super spys, tower defense experts, mental manipulators supreme, and someone who spams Melkoth's mistifying miasma as a party trick. Oh, and if they discover no proof that Mathilde was guilty post mortem, the wrath of the entire Karaz Ankor. That won't be the empire vs Karaz Ankor, mind you, whoever is in charge will certainly throw the witch hunters to the wolves, it will be a band of witch hunters vs the Karaz Ankor.
If we ever find our backs up against a sufficiently hard object, I'm willing.
I'm also willing to admit that there's some appeal to K8P being an ultra-radical, ultra-cosmopolitan hold that's willing to trade with tomb kings, experiments in raising Skaven to not be evil little monsters, and makes use of spider cavalry.
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
Simple fact is there's not many ways to know, because it gets exclusively taught to wizards at the Colleges, who are already confirmed to be magic. It depends on if you believe the priest casting from a Divine Lore with prayers in Old Reikspiel, which formed a large part of the basis for Lingua Praestantia, is unwittingly using their own magic or not.
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Hmm, I misremembered or paraphrased those posts badly.
They mentioned not gracefully admitting ignorance rather than 'Wait how did I not know this?' Which, still sort of related, in that she never thinks/acknowledged to herself that 'If only the trusted know, and I didn't know, then QED that means I was not trusted, duh.'
As for the rest of my post that you quoted though... That was just pure speculation, yeah. I was thinking about the possibility/probability that... potentially Mathilde could have found out. And not by reaching sufficient trustworthiness. But by just being good enough at intrigue and diplomacy to pick it up from people at the college, or getting enough contacts there. But she wasn't the most socially adept person, and kind of stuck out due to... being younger than... Actually, that's weird now that I think about it. We're told the Grey Order likes to recruit young, but then we're also told that people usually manifest magic at 15-20 (IIRC right?) so what gives? Does the Grey Order just recruit a lot of people to train as spies, and hope that some of them will eventually show the spark of magic? That seems highly inefficient and labor-intensive...
I feel like this point was raised before, and met with a "What would Anoqeyan add? Nothing much/nothing useful, really." response. Can't remember if it was from the GM himself or not though. Possibly just people.
That said though, I don't think the "need new sources of knowledge" is about stuff like languages like Anoqeyan; but rather about secrets that are held by other magical traditions. So... Yeah, there's tons more to learn. But the "stuff to learn" is stuff that is passed on in non-Collegiate traditions, rather than stuff like Anoqeyan.
... Though, also, I highly doubt that Mathilde has run out of things to learn about Grey Magic from the Colleges. For instance, she can't pull off any of Algard's or Melkoth's tricks with time or dimensions. That's an entire facet of ways of using, and looking at, Ulgu that she kind of can't/doesn't really easily have access to. So given that, how can one easily say that Mathilde's learned all that the Colleges have to teach?
Unless it was just "Mathilde has learned all that the Colleges have to teach about Waystones/multi-wind-enchanting/specific topic". Which may or may not be correct, dunno.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
The Dhar faction is way larger than that, just look at the amount of people who want to study it. And there ain't no studying Dhar without getting Mathilde's hands dirty.
(Also Ninjafish is pro-Dhar all days, they don't let something as minor as public perception get in the way of arcane power)
- Location
- The Surface Of A Hostile Planet
Keep in mind that most of the time magic talent is wind-agnostic. So it means that the Grey College basically calls dibs on anyone manifesting magic prior to 15 unless they already have a strong affinity to one of the other winds, and that in general they preferentially select candidates on the younger side.
So you'd have the average age for a new apprentice in the Grey College be ~14, probably, whereas somewhere like the Bright College it's probably closer to ~19. Mathilde was thus still on the younger side even for the Grey College, being 10 when she arrived.
I see. So it's basically "they try to recruit from the lower-bound of the 'usual age in which magic shows up' range." That makes sense of course. I was looking at it from an objective "young age" rather than comparative-to-other-wizards-apprentices-age.
Kornet
Quite possibly a sloth abomination
- Location
- Mother Russia
Gah. Sorry about that part, I started writing a (way too spirited) rebuttal of your post yesterday, started looking for citations to back up my point of view, didn't find any direct ones, decided that I am not so uncategorically sure you are wrong after all (and that maybe I should also calm down a bit) and and forgot to delete that part when I was talking about Dhar today.
Now, I still believe that we had Word of Boney that the name of Grey Patriarch was a guarded secret back when we were an apprentice, but I couldn't find any citations on that. Or on us finding out his name in-universe. And I did look for those - so, maybe I am wrong on that point after all (or maybe I am no Pickle).
Now, on the part which I still disagree with: your assesment of our diplomatic ability. First: mathilde is not bad at diplomacy, and never was. It was solidly above average when we started the quest. Then it actually deteriorated a bit, as Mathilde gre into a somewhat less pleasant person (learning to torutre people with actual torture and bureacracy does that to you), and then bounced back due to us learning customs of different people.
However, compared to our other stats, which tend to go into stratosphere, we are relatively bad at diplomacy - but that is a function of our definition of "good" as "cream of the crop among career specialists in the field".
Psst, don't give my game away. It's easier to convince those fools to test dhar if they think we are a joke. Hail Abel.
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- Location
- Actually pretty lost
As interested as I am in learning both of these, we've by no means exhausted the College for magical knowledge. Off the top of my head, we haven't so much as touched potions or rituals.
Potions are too underwhelming and spoil too quickly to be worth purchasing ahead of time for Mathilde, but it's entirely possible she could find uses for potioneering if she could brew them on demand. And rituals are the really big, scary magic that need a lot of preparation - the memetic dancing plague we've discussed as having probably wiped out Uzkulak at one point? That's an Ulgu ritual.
- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Luckily, I am a Pickle.
Here is Mathilde, as a Journeywoman on the Haunted Hills campaign, not knowing who the Patriarch is.
Here is Mathilde, having just finished her tests to become a Magister, and now she knows who he is.
We don't get to see the moment when she actually learns it. Probably it happened while prepping for her exams.
- Location
- Spain
The problem with brew them on demand is AP hell, we would be brewing potions using AP and all we would got are CF and gold, and there are far more efficient ways of getting both...
I am still quite interested in ritual magic though...
SuperSonicSound
Shadowmancer of the Shadow Cabal
Yea there's a couple of college standard avenues left to explore for magical knowledge but we're actually almost tapped out. Rituals and potions are it and potions degrade to quickly to be worth bothering with frankly. So there's Rituals left to study. I think Alratans broader point is right though we need to start looking outside of the colleges to expand our knowledge now.
Potion production should ultimately be below the level of abstraction brewing them is quick. Quick enough that it wouldn't consume AP.
Personally I think we should be looking at getting Arcane Khazalid when we return, we're going to need it when it comes time to futz about with the waystones even if we never pass on the knowledge to any one else.
Potion production should ultimately be below the level of abstraction brewing them is quick. Quick enough that it wouldn't consume AP.
Personally I think we should be looking at getting Arcane Khazalid when we return, we're going to need it when it comes time to futz about with the waystones even if we never pass on the knowledge to any one else.
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