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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Ericwinter said:
...You know what I want? I want a dinosaur. No real reason, I was just thinking about our new provable Lizardmen toy and knowledge from those books, and realized that Mathilde on a dinosaur would be really freaking cool. Especially if it's an undead one. We can call it Sue and everything!
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Z000 said:
we can not do a Dresden

where would we even get the fire
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We could see about trying to get one of the Salamanders back.
 
Idea:
Take a shield. Inscribe shield with the Master Rune of Flight, Flakkson's Rune of Seeking and a minor rune to make it bounce on impact.
Invent and they cosplay as Captain America Empire.
 
ReImagined said:
I can understand why people might want to look at potions, since it's an area of magical knowledge we've largely left unexplored. But this topic has been discussed before, and benefits seem quite minimal compared to what we could get by spending that AP elsewhere.


And even in the event we do want to work with potions or it comes up that knowledge of potions would be useful, it would be better to outsource that to the experts in the Jade Order with CF. Now, who's a member of the Jade Order with a specialty in potions in these mountains...
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I don't think that it's a priority either, but the argument to take basic potions classes just so that we better recognise novel potions and their effects when we encounter them in the wild is a valid one. As a future goal, Mathilde should get to the point where she at least understands everything a standard Grey Wizard is capable of doing, even if she isn't good at doing these things herself.
Briefvoice said:
So any last-minute bets on what Gotrek will be like to interact with? In the novel series he always had has Slayerhood and constant shame putting him in a foul mood, but maybe he'll be better tempered here.

My guess? Unbridled arrogance. Remember that as a Slayer, this is a guy perfectly fine having a human come along to write the ballad of his death because he was totally sure it was going to be so awesome as to not only cancel out his honor debt, but become something glorious and worthy of song. BoneyM told us Slayers almost never take that attitude. It's not just that. Even as a Slayer, he was always totally convinced of his own superiority. Arguably a big part of the reason he lasted so long was that he could never stand for any foe to defeat him, ever. Oh, he'd go seeking death- but when the moment came he could never, ever bear to lose, never let himself be overwhelmed. His pride overcame his shame every time.

Of course, that's the negative side, but Gotrek is also a guy who really believes in his responsibility to protect others. On some level, I think he believes with absolute certainty that he's going to bring all his engineers back alive because he's Gotrek fucking Gurnisson, and of course he'll find a way.
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I think all Slayers that were skilled and talented at killing foes in their past wouldn't stand for any foe to defeat them if they have a way to prevent it. Any deliberate opening would be suicide and the whole point of Slayerdom is that it isn't outright suicide. If there's any chance thag they can kill their foe before it kills them then their honor and duty, cracked as it might be, demands that they attempt their very best.

SuperSonicSound said:
It's cavitation.
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Specifically, it is silenced cavitation, because Kragg knew that the Rune of the Unknown should not make noise or cause vacuum shockwaves if it was to be useful at its job, but didn't know that underwater flashes of light were a thing.
Speaking of, did we ever get around to telling him about it this phenomenon?

@BoneyM I have a few questions that are completely unrelated to the current thread madness subjects:

BoneyM said:
So until everything that happened back there, I would have said that we were more a part of Karak Vlag than we were anywhere else, and I'd have never given it much more thought than that if you'd never plucked it out of the clutches of Chaos."

You nod solemnly. This was just one of many ripples that will be spreading after the events in High Pass. "So it comes down to... does your loyalty lie with the Hold few of you have any real ties to, or does it lie with the Hold that has returned to the Pass that is your home?"

"That about sums it up. Though, would they even want our loyalty? You saw them. Well, heard them. Utterly convinced that this was just the latest daemonic trick."

"I think they would," you reply sincerely. "Once enough time passes that they realize there isn't a barb in the tail waiting to hook them. I think it will be a long, long time before any of them feel comfortable walking under the open sky, and they'll need Rangers now more than ever."

"That's a nice thought,"
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What's Snorri's position in Clan Redbeard? The above section could be read as him having some amount of say when it comes to his Clan's future allegiance. But a Clan Head would probably not personally go on such risky a mission without his Clan having a deep personal stake or there having been some past oath or debt involved.

Also, how large is Clan Redbeard? Are the 150 a significant majority of their Ranging force?

BoneyM said:
The Bronzefists had their own mountain in the Vaults - not the biggest mountain, nor the richest, but it was theirs.
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Does a Clan that excavates and reinforces their own Mountain Hold get to call their Thane a King or is there more involved?
Also, what happened to the Bronzefist's mountain now that they returned to K8P?
 
Dain II Ironfoot said:
Soooo something I am confused/wondering about: could we learn another wind of magic? Or are we only compatible with one?
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It's a pretty rock solid part of the Warhammer Fantasy setting that human wizards can only cast from a single wind, and anyone who tries to cast from multiple very rapidly goes completely insane.
 
Redshirt Army said:
It's a pretty rock solid part of the Warhammer Fantasy setting that human wizards can only cast from a single wind, and anyone who tries to cast from multiple very rapidly goes completely insane.
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Unless your name is maximillian schriber iirc then you can use spells from three winds of magic.

But yes broadly speaking you are correct although there may be work arounds.
 
There is that "Wind Tongs" research, but at this point, it is fairly likely that nothing actually usable outside of perfect lab conditions could actually come out of it.
 
Redshirt Army said:
It's a pretty rock solid part of the Warhammer Fantasy setting that human wizards can only cast from a single wind, and anyone who tries to cast from multiple very rapidly goes completely insane.
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Well, witches (the Career in Realms of Sorcery) can manage it if they're lucky enough to keep evading miscasts. And are willing to limit themselves to lower-end Journeyman spells for as long as they live, which they will have to learn at an absolutely glacial pace.
 
Aranfan said:
What. We have literally never done a Tongs research action. You have zero basis to say this.
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We do have that one time when Boney went "IDK what people are expecting out this" over Ulgu Tongs discussion. There is also some other stuff, but...

...but I just wanted to mention tongs, not to start a 100th debate about their viability. I guess I derped when I added that bit.
 
Rafin said:
I think all Slayers that were skilled and talented at killing foes in their past wouldn't stand for any foe to defeat them if they have a way to prevent it. Any deliberate opening would be suicide and the whole point of Slayerdom is that it isn't outright suicide. If there's any chance thag they can kill their foe before it kills them then their honor and duty, cracked as it might be, demands that they attempt their very best.
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There's not giving a deliberate opening, there's fighting as hard as you can, and there's fighting harder than should be possible, driven beyond all possible reason by sheer stubborn refusal to give in or be defeated.

I don't think those three things are all the same thing, and the third is something even most non-Slayers can't manage.
 
Redshirt Army said:
It's a pretty rock solid part of the Warhammer Fantasy setting that human wizards can only cast from a single wind, and anyone who tries to cast from multiple very rapidly goes completely insane.
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I assume general consensus is that when it comes to Damsels the Tabletop implementation is just an adaptation that was easier than designing a Lore of The Lady?
Briefvoice said:
and there's fighting harder than should be possible, driven beyond all possible reason by sheer stubborn refusal to give in or be defeated.
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That is all nice and well when going with shounen storytelling logic, but my interpretation of BoneyM's work is that he prefers a world where people function like actual people. A stubborn and prideful Dwarf will always give it their all but, given that they aren't WH40K Orks with a psychic field that makes impossible things work, they either have the skills to survive or they don't. I don't expect that this story's Gotrek somehow has a supernaturally increased potential to make his axes block, seek weak points and shear through flesh and armor like it was butter just because he's "turned his Will to Win up to eleven".
 
Prospalz said:
We do have that one time when Boney went "IDK what people are expecting out this" over Ulgu Tongs discussion. There is also some other stuff, but...

...but I just wanted to mention tongs, not to start a 100th debate about their viability. I guess I derped when I added that bit.
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So I recall that, however the context was in relation to people speculating about possible end states that would be at the end of a hypothetical research tree and stating that the base experiment wouldnt let us know if thats viable.

After all step 1 is all about seeing if other wind manipulation can be achieved with out forming dhar as happens in nature. That opens a lot of possibilitiee if yes but tells us nothing about what is for sure possible.
 
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@BoneyM I took a stab at an updated WHFB statline for Mathilde. I am not super familiar with Fantasy's mechanical crunch, so it may not be quite right. Also if it matters I'm using the Warhammer Armies Project 9th edition rules since I don't have access to actual physical WHF books from the more recent editions pre-Age Of We Don't Talk About That.

Really wasn't sure whether to peg her Leadership at 9 or 10 especially given friendly dragon chats and the Daemon swarm and the Liber Mortis and having the Burning Shadow Mountain ram through her skull, plus all the other shit poor Mathilde deals with on a regular basis. I went for the conservative option in the end.

I don't actually know when the last statblock update was either, but given it lists Wizard Level 1, probably a fair while. I think 3 is a fair shout; we're a Lady Magister, but WL4 is for the biggest of chunguses and we're not there yet.

Statline is mostly unchanged, Leadership aside, because as above I wasn't sure when the last update was to gauge how much improvement there's been, there's a lot to keep track of, and frankly she was already pretty damn stacked for a human, but I somewhat speculatively bumped WS and BS up by one (edit: it has been pointed out to me that the new sword style is not actually complete yet, and I was conflating in-Quest shenanigans with actual character sheet skill levels) and added Sniper to represent her ongoing martial training, her dip into assassination skills, and her knack for picking off leaders. Also added Magical Attacks for the spell mastery that auto-does that (edit: apparently the spell doesn't work on pistols), an attempt at a custom Windsage rule (plus the dispel specialties folded under it) and a custom Dwarf-Friend rule for allied Empire/Dwarf armies.

Wargear-wise I'm most uncertain about Ranald's Coin; I've tried to mechanically represent both its actual effects and her penchant for using it to wander in disguised as the enemy and then performing a decapitating strike, but I don't know how balanced it looks. I'm especially not convinced by or happy with the Deceiver/Night Prowler pair, and am similarly unconvinced at the Doppleganger rules, but they're the best I can think of at the moment.

That all being said, I absolutely love how tanky Mathilde is even by normal standards let alone Wizard ones. She functionally has twelve Wounds and that's if you somehow manage to stop her killing things all game - not only that, but she's taking those Wounds at T5 with a 4+ Armour Save. Some rough Mathshammer at S4 enemies: 5+ To Wound and then a 5+ Armour save gives 1/3 * 2/3 = 2/9 of a Wound per average attack, which is to say that it'll take fifty-four standard hits to kill her. Bearing in mind that everyone who gets an actual wound in is getting counterpunched at S6, and also Mathilde has a S10 autodispel sword and Dwarf guns.

EDIT: robe is 3+ not 4+, which means 1/3 * 1/2 = 1/6 of a Wound per average attack, or seventy-two standard hits. Yikes.​

... and Shadow Shenanigans, plus warrior-level WS and I, meaning that hitting her in the first place is a taller order than one might expect of a Wizard. 'Mere' WL3 or not the thought of how many points she'd cost on tabletop is wince-inducing.

Honestly I feel like I've overloaded her profile but it's all stuff that she's done in-Quest, so..?

Critique welcome!

Loremaster Thane Lady Magister Dame Mathilde Weber, the Dammerlichtreiter
As of Karag Dum pt. 10
Code: 
M WS BS S T W I A Ld
4 5  4  4 5 3 5 3 9

Type: Special Character (Infantry*)
Army: Dwarfs, The Empire

*May join Cavalry units with Shadowsteed active.

Special Rules
Dawongr
As a Dwarf-Friend, Mathilde is treated in all respects as a fellow Dwarf by friendly Dwarf units, even if taken as part of an Empire detachment. She may join Dwarf units, nearby Dwarves may benefit from her Inspiring Presence if she is the Empire's General, and she may even be the General of a Dwarf army in which there are no 'Dwarf Lord' or 'Runelord' units or Characters - even if she is also the Empire's General.​
Scout
Seed of Regrowth
Mathilde begins battle with the Seed of Regrowth fully charged, with four uses. One use restores all of Mathilde's Wounds, or the Wounds of a model with which she is in base-to-base contact (for this purpose ignore the rule that she cannot join Unbreakable units without being herself Unbreakable). If Mathilde is slain, this effect will activate automatically, and she will return with full Wounds at the end of the next combat round. One use is restored when wiping out a unit, either by wounds or overrun, as long as Mathilde's own unit was not also destroyed or fled. This cannot take the Seed of Regrowth above four uses.​
Stubborn
Sniper
Windsage
Possessed of exceptionally acute magical perception, Mathilde can reroll failed Channelling attempts, and on a successful Ld check can prevent a miscast from occurring in Wizards of WL2 or less she is within 6" of. Additionally, due to deep personal experience, she may reroll a single die on failed attempts to dispel necromantic or Waaagh magic. Waaagh magicians must reroll their highest die when attempting to dispel Mathilde, taking the worse result.​
Wizard (Level 3)
Ranald's Boxcars - you may set any die to its maximum value if it would cause BoneyM to die a little more on the inside

Wargear
Branalhune - Melee, S10, dispels all ongoing positive spells and disables enemy magical equipment for the rest of the battle
Dwarven Revolvers - 18", S4, Armour Piercing, Dwarf-Crafted [rerolls 1s on To Hit], Quick to Fire, Extra Attack, Multiple Shots x3
Marksdwarf Pistol - 24", S4, Armour Piercing 2, Dwarf-Crafted, Quick to Fire, Extra Attack

Ranald's Coin - Before deployment, choose a face. Gain that ability for the battle.
  • The Gambler: One use. Mathilde may reroll up to two dice over the course of a single phase.
  • The Deceiver: Mathilde may Scout within 12" of enemy units, and charge on her first turn. If the enemy player goes first, Mathilde may deploy after their turn finishes, before her player's Movement Phase begins, and act as normal.
  • The Night Prowler: Only of use in towns or cities, or other races' equivalent. Mathilde deploys as per normal Scout rules. Before battle commences, one enemy unit of her player's choice suffers the player's choice of her full casting turn (generating a full Magic Phase's worth of Winds dice), her full Shooting attack sequence (as if she were in ideal range), or her full Close Combat attack sequence at +1 To Hit, any or all of which may be targeted specifically against individual models or Characters.
  • The Protector: Only of use in campaign games. Double all gains of any reputation, fame, renown, or other related currency in use made by Mathilde.
Staff of Mistery - Add +1 to channeling attempts. When casting mist-related spells, the player may choose to reroll one die.

Belt of the Unshackled Mountain - +1 T included in statline; any model that successfully wounds Mathilde suffers a single hit at their attack's S+2; Immunity to Fire. The first spell cast on Mathilde in the battle automatically fails - though without miscast if it would otherwise be successful - and is permanently burnt from the caster's mind.
Enchanted Robes - 3+ Armour Save, immunity to effects stemming from physical fatigue (do those exist? I feel like there might be some spells somewhere)

Grounding Rod - Reroll Miscasts

New Spells of Note - and mostly just notes, I'm out of my depth with the crunch for this
Bewilder - As before
Universal Confusion/Cloud of Confusion - Bewilder but as a short-range whole-unit / zero-range cloud effect​
Blessed Weapon: Blessed Hands - Mastery of this spell grants the Magical Attacks special rule.
Burning Shadows - exists but is mechanically awful to convert to tabletop and doesn't get used in personal scale combat anyway
Doppelganger - Mathilde must be ignored by the enemy player while this spell is active, and she may join enemy units. Surprise attacks from under Doppelganger against an enemy unit she's currently joined gain +1 To Hit as per Night Prowler.
Melkoth's Mystifying Misasma - reduces M/WS/BS/I of an enemy (choose one for 5+ or all four for 10+) by D3 a spell with a canonical description! hooray!
Rite of Way - Mathilde and any attached unit gain Strider and increase Movement to 6(?)
Shadow Knives: Shadow Dagger - Hand weapon, Ignores Armour, S?
Shroud of Invisibility - Invisible for one turn/phase (?)
Throttling - shadow strangles nearby enemies, entangling weaker ones

Smoke and Mirrors - as per the Lore Attribute for the Lore of Shadow
 
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Rafin said:
I assume general consensus is that when it comes to Damsels the Tabletop implementation is just an adaptation that was easier than designing a Lore of The Lady?

That is all nice and well when going with shounen storytelling logic, but my interpretation of BoneyM's work is that he prefers a world where people function like actual people. A stubborn and prideful Dwarf will always give it their all but, given that they aren't WH40K Orks with a psychic field that makes impossible things work, they either have the skills to survive or they don't. I don't expect that this story's Gotrek somehow has a supernaturally increased potential to make his axes block, seek weak points and shear through flesh and armor like it was butter just because he's "turned his Will to Win up to eleven".
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But Gotrek does have a supernaturally increased potential for his axe. It is after all Grimnir's Axe.
Made by an Ancestor God.
Runed in ways Kragg wouldn't be able to repeat.

Who knows how much power that axe grants?
 
LightLan said:
But Gotrek does have a supernaturally increased potential for his axe. It is after all Grimnir's Axe.
Made by an Ancestor God.
Runed in ways Kragg wouldn't be able to repeat.

Who knows how much power that axe grants?
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Which explains why he survives much better than a pride and stubbornness so much more harcore than that of normal Dwarves that it somehow makes him unkillable.
 
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