Thebigpieman
I've got this, I think.
- Location
- United States
I see Meowthilde strikes again.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- Tags
- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Florida
Stop, i can only like a name so much.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
I honestly didn't think it could get better, and then it did.
Getting the MRoW published is a priority, then. When we get back we should at least send off a neutral-ish Expedition member (Asarnil?) to tell Marienburg that we have the capability. The entire point of a deterrent is lost if you keep it a secret, after all.Let's look at what the Chamberlain of the Seal had to say about reconquering Marienburg if it came to a fight.
So that Battle of Grootscher Marsh he mentioned, that's interesting.
Sounds like a good portion of the Marienburg defense is based on the assumption that they can count on that marsh to bog down an attacking force. Someone being able to lead an army through the marsh quickly, in say a single night, might be able to achieve a massive strategic surprise in the event of a war. But what magic could allow for something like that?
Arkat Fooger
Anneloes van de Maarel
Thijs van Onderzoeker
Karl den Euwe
Sasha van den Nijmenk
are (or will be) Directors and council members of Marienburg that would depicted as good people (often flawed, but good)
I feel like these posts are just proving the point I was making...
SakSak
Unbound
- Location
- The Cold Wastes of the North
Personal theory?
Some low-key chaos worshippers of Tzeentch are acting as a front for a proper Cult, and have convinced the Marienburg rulers to fund the spreading of disease on the human labour, and incidentally they recommended contacts some of whom are from a Nurglite Cult and some who are just greedy humans.
The Nurglites are happy they get paid to spread theirs god's.... 'love'.
The Marienburgers are happy because the canal project slows down, giving them more time for their economic warfare to bite and they can expect to make all this money back in short order after.
The Tzeentch Cultists are preparing to leak this information to select witch-hunters, to get rid of the Nurglite Cult.
Tzeentch is plotting to have the lead witch hunter be particularly tenacious and paranoid, leading to the Tzeentch cultists being purged as well. Because a century down the line, the witch hunter's future apprentice will do JUST AS PLANNED!
Some low-key chaos worshippers of Tzeentch are acting as a front for a proper Cult, and have convinced the Marienburg rulers to fund the spreading of disease on the human labour, and incidentally they recommended contacts some of whom are from a Nurglite Cult and some who are just greedy humans.
The Nurglites are happy they get paid to spread theirs god's.... 'love'.
The Marienburgers are happy because the canal project slows down, giving them more time for their economic warfare to bite and they can expect to make all this money back in short order after.
The Tzeentch Cultists are preparing to leak this information to select witch-hunters, to get rid of the Nurglite Cult.
Tzeentch is plotting to have the lead witch hunter be particularly tenacious and paranoid, leading to the Tzeentch cultists being purged as well. Because a century down the line, the witch hunter's future apprentice will do JUST AS PLANNED!
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Eh, it's less a nuclear weapon and more "forces might show up where you aren't expecting them". If you are in fact expecting them, a lot of the punch is lost.
- Location
- Aotearoa
For me, sticking 'Mathilde's' on the front of a simple and if I may say fairly elegant Rite of Way pun undercuts the effect. We didn't hammer it home with Mathilde's Staff of Mistery.
Given my theory that younger Mathilde's initial goal was to make her permanent mark on the world and ensure she couldn't again be erased- the way her parents and village did- a more confident Lady Magister Mathilde, acclaimed Wizard and Doer of Deeds wouldn't feel so, well, insecure.
Given my theory that younger Mathilde's initial goal was to make her permanent mark on the world and ensure she couldn't again be erased- the way her parents and village did- a more confident Lady Magister Mathilde, acclaimed Wizard and Doer of Deeds wouldn't feel so, well, insecure.
Gap
Not a Dog
- Location
- The Malleary
Marienburg is a sovereign power just like the Empire and will try to protect its interests. Trade is its lifeblood, so its normal they use soft power to defend its resource. Even if they dont need it for survival. Of course, gunboat politics and embargo arent nice things but they arent outright evil.
I expect in a interest vs interest we will side with the Empire because of nationalism but lets not allow that to clound our perception, there's no proof of poisoning and thats a serious thing that goes beyond of what is "accepted". We used Skaven rivalry to pit them against each other, you think they cant do the same? Or some Vampire? Do we know if some Border Princes dont like it? Honestly we know to little, aside from EIC reports we choose to remain away from this plot.
I expect in a interest vs interest we will side with the Empire because of nationalism but lets not allow that to clound our perception, there's no proof of poisoning and thats a serious thing that goes beyond of what is "accepted". We used Skaven rivalry to pit them against each other, you think they cant do the same? Or some Vampire? Do we know if some Border Princes dont like it? Honestly we know to little, aside from EIC reports we choose to remain away from this plot.
The Phoenixian
The Glacier Witch
- Location
- My own little world
Hmmm... I wonder if Clan Pestilens is behind the sickness, honestly. Whatever portion of the Horned Rat that was angry and quite possibly scarred by Mathilde's revealing of the Skaven civil war to the empire might have been angry enough to push their survivors into spite and revenge at the true instigator of their misfortune.
And that was before she dropped Queekish on the world.
Edit: It would be interesting if after speculation about Tzeentch having Plans for Mathilde, it turns out a completely different, rather fuzzier Chaos God had their sights set on wrecking Mathilde's day.
Far less seriously: Besides, getting back into acronyms like this opens up up fighting over which one and how placed. For instance Rite of Way (Mathilde's) Which, in combination with the staff of Mistery would allow one to...
♪RoW(M) if you want to. RoW(M) around the world.♪
Mathilde, during a future lecture: "I had seriously considered appending my name to it too, but the annoyed time traveling apprentices quotient was already far too high and that would be A Bridge too Far, which, Max and Johann having won dibs on the name, I couldn't cross anyways until the Gold College's version of the spell was complete."
And that was before she dropped Queekish on the world.
Edit: It would be interesting if after speculation about Tzeentch having Plans for Mathilde, it turns out a completely different, rather fuzzier Chaos God had their sights set on wrecking Mathilde's day.
Serious: Personally, I still prefer the plain, universal elegance of the Rite of Way. Appending names to it detracts a bit from that, hilarious though it may be. If said acronym was an elegant travel pun I might go with it, but as is, it doesn't do it for me.
Far less seriously: Besides, getting back into acronyms like this opens up up fighting over which one and how placed. For instance Rite of Way (Mathilde's) Which, in combination with the staff of Mistery would allow one to...
♪RoW(M) if you want to. RoW(M) around the world.♪
Mathilde, during a future lecture: "I had seriously considered appending my name to it too, but the annoyed time traveling apprentices quotient was already far too high and that would be A Bridge too Far, which, Max and Johann having won dibs on the name, I couldn't cross anyways until the Gold College's version of the spell was complete."
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- Location
- France
AFAIK this is wrong.
Why is Marienburg Independent? This isn't some oppressed minority who wanted their own state, it's a bunch of rich monopolists who wanted to levy higher taxes on trade and pay fewer taxes to support the state that keeps them safe and that protects the trade routes they live off.
- Pronouns
- It/They
I've made it perfect by adding a cat related pun to the pun singularity that is this spell name.
Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
The Empire is running a deterrence-intimidation playbook - "You don't want to play this game."
Even if they do, it... probably doesn't change what'd happen? Marienburg was almost certainly able to force a battle in advantageous terrain last time because the Empire failed to bring enough wizards to compensate for Marienburg's maneuver advantage. This time the Empire would bring enough magical firepower to make any engagement field engagement a foregone conclusion, so I'd expect Marienburg to hunker down behind its walls anyway. /shrug
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
EVERYBODY WINS!
I love it
Edit: MRoW is amazing, but I still prefer RoW over it.
... Although now make a really useful spell called "MEOW" someday
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- Location
- New Brunswick, NJ
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Despite my post earlier when I pointed out the acronym, I also prefer Rite of Way by itself. I do not actually want Mathilde to go full catgirl, nya~
With regard to Marienburg: Wilhelmina did say she'd have a word with some Witch Hunters, so if they're flirting with The Diseased, we should find out.
With regard to Marienburg: Wilhelmina did say she'd have a word with some Witch Hunters, so if they're flirting with The Diseased, we should find out.
An Alternate Perspective
Well, that's only going to further the Chamberlain's impression that Mathilde is an absolute strategic genius. It looks like a plan decades in the making. Let's go through it.Let's look at what the Chamberlain of the Seal had to say about reconquering Marienburg if it came to a fight.
So that Battle of Grootscher Marsh he mentioned, that's interesting.
Sounds like a good portion of the Marienburg defense is based on the assumption that they can count on that marsh to bog down an attacking force. Someone being able to lead an army through the marsh quickly, in say a single night, might be able to achieve a massive strategic surprise in the event of a war. But what magic could allow for something like that?
- Mathilde, as a Journeywoman, takes the position of Stirlands Spymaster. Her big accomplishment during that time is keeping Stirland from exploding financially, by retrieving tax records and killing the League. He's aware of both, since the Spymaster has had a man in the council the whole time, and the Chamberlain would get told either as it happened (because Stirland potentially going poof is important for him) or when he asked for a brief on Mathilde before their meeting.
The collapse of Stirland would've made trade along the Stir extremely difficult, and the league would've prevented it as well, so there's step one. - She leverages the destruction of the League to get her own company, which then starts nailing down that trade route. Nevermind Mathilde didn't really have anything to do with it, it's very easy to image Wilhelmine acting on her behalf. Wilhelmine doesn't own the largest slice of the stock.
- She also leverages it to get a knighthood, presumably as a way around the Vow of Poverty that didn't actually turn out to be necessary. Also, getting two boons for one action. Or maybe it's a part of her plan that hasn't come to fruition yet.
- Stirland uses it's improved wealth to kick the shit out of Sylvania, thereby removing another danger to the river trade.
- And you know, dealing with an ancient threat at the same time. The mark of a true master is accomplishing many things at once.
- The fact that Abelheim dies right before the conclusion of the campaign would be... notable. In fact, let's sidetrack
- His death lets her command the final battle, which gets her a ton of credit with the dwarfs
- He gets replaced by someone unseasoned and unconcerned with river trade.
- She gets to remove herself from Stirland without giving the appearance of wanting to.
- 1 and 3 together nicely set up the next step.
- She joins the Expedition to K8P, and is instrumental in its reconquest.
- The main point would likely just be to increase her pull with the dwarfs, though the impact of the easier silk road would be noted.
- A smart and diligent man would note that reconnecting Karak Azul brought a wave of gold and steal to Barak Varr, making the canal project a lot more plausible.
- When the silk comes online, they'll lose their mind. How could she know?!?
- Barak Varr starts its project at the behest of Mathilde's agent (totally), and things move towards the endgame.
- I wonder if someone could pin the Karak Kadrin project on her as well. Or maybe on her master, since this kind of looks like a scheme by the Grey Order as a whole, and Mathilde is just the frontwoman.
- Incidentally, if the Chamberlain knew that her Master killed the last Empress, while the current one is a Ranaldian with plans for Marienburg, and on which Mathilde has a nice bit of blackmail, he'd be impressed. Very much. And also very, very concerned, because how do you even deal with that? The Templars are suspect, the Greys might be behind it, they can kill an Empress, so who do you get to deal with this, and how do you survive long enough to try? Is it maybe just better to hope they're acting for the Empire?
- I wonder if someone could pin the Karak Kadrin project on her as well. Or maybe on her master, since this kind of looks like a scheme by the Grey Order as a whole, and Mathilde is just the frontwoman.
- Then she uses another dwarf expedition to get the financing on some further fuck-Marienburg-moves. Hiring Asarnil, and developing +testing that handy-dandy terrain ignoring spell. Plus Dwarfen goodwill towards the Empire.
- Incidentally, the expedition forces could make for a very nasty attacking force against Marienburg. The landships to break through the gates or walls (with the spell plus their speed and toughness to get them there), the wizards to counter any magical answers, and then a ton of monstrous cavalry to run wild inside the city. I mean, can you imagine trying to stop a hundred kittybirds inside the city when they're just trying to fuck things up. That's terrible for morale. Especially if you do the whole raid at night. It won't make any friends, but it's certainly a strong statement. Remember the last time you made us come over there?
Can we torture logic enough to tie Ubersreik and the other Fuck-The-Skaven bits into it?
Hmm, we have WOG that she's a vampire, but Boney never said which vampire. I'll just not that there's this very powerful vampire known for her skills at intrigue and her far reaching information network, who's also fond of living in Dwarf Karaks associated with silver and who's quite the capable necromancer and inventor/adaptor of magic.
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- Location
- Greece
You underestimate the power of logistics in a war. A lot. Suprise will give it extra punch, yes, but wars have been won on logistics alone and lost on lack thereof. Being able to say "no thank you" to terrain is scary because a lot of settlements get build in places with natural defenses and because it makes armies go faster. It won't win all wars, but it should not be underestimated as a mere suprise attack trick.
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
In regards to Marienburg, I want to point out that arguably the canal project should make them a less attractive target for conquest not more. It makes Marienburg less wealthy, and stops it being the sole point of egress from the river system to the sea, both of which make it less valuable, not more. And it's not like Marienburg blockading the river was the principal reason the Empire never invaded. I'm pretty sure that was because the last time they tried, they lost, and Ulthuan provided at least enough support to make the Empire wary of messing around too much.
Why Marienburg became independent is hard to judge. It's almost certainly not as simple as "the Directorate wanted more power" because by the time they got independence they were 99% of the way there. There's probably some element of not wanting to be in the Empire (Marienburg has always had a very distinct culture IIRC), some element of desire for freedom in general, rather than opposition to the Empire specifically.
- Location
- Earth
Needed Queekish to establish surveilance on Karak Varn
- Location
- Brazil
Bah, this is shaping up to be a magnificent bit of spellcrafting. If we manage to publicize it, I'd really like to be "that Mathilde?" from this spell.
- Location
- Greece
If he really thinks like that, I'll think him daft. Plans with so many moving parts and unknowns do not work, period. Not even Tzeeench could pull that one off.
...Dude, everything else aside, Marienburg opened hostilities over something the Dawi, not the empire, did and which had nothing to do with Marienburg . Sure, if you ignore everything canon says about Marienburg as imperial propaganda, then maybe Marienburg is just trying to defend itself, yes, but it still is the clear aggressor of this whole scenario.
I don't think it helps with logistics, because you need a powerful wizard constantly casting magic to do it. That's the opposite of easy logistcs. It does offer a very powerful maneuver option, and that is absolutely devastating.
But positioning your own armies is just one part, though superior positioning can is devastating in the hands of a skilled general. I think the bigger impact is what it means for your enemy. Because now there's all this terrain that suddenly stops being defensible, and so they have to spread out way more, or just give up on holding large stretches. For example, normally you only have to hold a ford in a river to lock down a whole stretch of land. Now, you have to hold the whole river, because they can just cross at any point. Worse, if you do try to hold it, there's a real danger of getting hit without any chance of hitting back, because the river is still an obstacle to your forces.
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The canal passing through the Empire's territory is clearly an Imperial project as well.
Barak Varr and Marienberg are also already commercial rivals at best; enemies at worst. Of course destroying their guarantee of independence had something to do with Marienberg, it's an existential threat when the revanchist Empire is still there.
The construction of the canal is an aggressive move. Why pretend otherwise?
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- Location
- France
That supports my point though. They had everything, but they still had to pay taxes to the central government. Then they declared independence, and nothing changed except for less taxes and the ability to impose more tariffs on the Imperials.
And as for "Marienburg's culture"... My (admittedly spotty) knowledge of the sourcebooks basically has it boil down to the entire city fitting the "generic Imperial merchant" archetype, with the rulers being that with more money and the pride to match. They were an Imperial city for ages, lots of people moved there, and the writers weren't exactly concerned with making it different from the usual formula (except when they were the bad guys - then they got portrayed as the usual formula, but more greedy and evil).
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They are still committing hostile operations on Imperial territory, that makes them the aggressors no matter what they assume or predict about what the Empire will do.