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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Exmorri said:
On other topics...

If you were in Marienburg's shoes, what would your next move be?
So far we've seen attempts to hire Asarnil, increase in piracy, a possible poisoning of food supplies.

If I were them, I'd probably try to set different groups of dwarfs against each other, and waste some time finding out how ineffective that is. Next might be going after the tools the dwarfs have - damage them, steal them, through proxy bandits of course, possibly find a mercenary/elf wizard with access to the Lore of Metal to cast (mass) Curse of Rust.
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If I was them then I would cut my losses and begin working on figuring out life after the Canals are done.

A merchant should know about the sunk cost fallacy, and with how things are panning out, escalating this conflict is only going to put more hurt on the money I currently have for an outcome that is very uncertain. I would possibly start working with the Elves to get exclusivity deals on certain commodities so that even with the canals, various profitable elven goods would still have to come through Marienburg.

Specifically, I would work with the various princes of the Elves and not the Phoneix King directly, or at least right away, but that would mainly be because I wouldn't want the idea of snubbing the Phoneix King's deal to be a popular past time for the nobles.
 
Thor's Twin said:
A merchant should know about the sunk cost fallacy, and with how things are panning out, escalating this conflict is only going to put more hurt on the money I currently have for an outcome that is very uncertain.
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Merchant politician on the other hand also has to maintain the appearance of strength. Gotta act big and powerful or the sharks move in.
Their options were essentially to push and hope it works, to push cleverly and be sure it works, or lose power and have someone else try.
 
Thor's Twin said:
If I was them then I would cut my losses and begin working on figuring out life after the Canals are done.

A merchant should know about the sunk cost fallacy, and with how things are panning out, escalating this conflict is only going to put more hurt on the money I currently have for an outcome that is very uncertain. I would possibly start working with the Elves to get exclusivity deals on certain commodities so that even with the canals, various profitable elven goods would still have to come through Marienburg.

Specifically, I would work with the various princes of the Elves and not the Phoneix King directly, or at least right away, but that would mainly be because I wouldn't want the idea of snubbing the Phoneix King's deal to be a popular past time for the nobles.
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I mean, even with canals, Marienburg is in a good spot. Trade from Norsca, Kislev, Bretonnia, northern Estalia will still go primarily to it, rather than through canals, not to mention their elven goods monopoly which will still continue.

It's just that they can no longer blackmail Empire as a whole, so will have to play nice.

So, agreed, they should let it go and go harder on their existing advantages.
 
Horium said:
I mean, even with canals, Marienburg is in a good spot. Trade from Norsca, Kislev, Bretonnia, northern Estalia will still go primarily to it, rather than through canals, not to mention their elven goods monopoly which will still continue.

It's just that they can no longer blackmail Empire as a whole, so will have to play nice.

So, agreed, they should let it go and go harder on their existing advantages.
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The problem is, of course, that people with power and money are very reluctant to give up even the slightest sliver of them. Even when objectively it's the smarter move.
 
NSMS said:
The problem is, of course, that people with power and money are very reluctant to give up even the slightest sliver of them. Even when objectively it's the smarter move.
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I think plenty of them are simply worried about losing the possibility to embargo the empire in order to keep from being forcibly reintegrated.

Plenty of people in the empire would love to have Marienburg's taxes again.
Too many for Marienburg's liking are willing to use force to achieve this.
 
SuperSonicSound said:
Even just observing them in their element will give us an insight into human spell casting that defies the one wind paradigm that humans are supposed to be able to use. That's huge.
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Oh certainly. But the time for that is when they are using magic, not when socialising.
We wrote our paper on the workings of Anvils Of Doom long before Kragg was willing to give us the time of day.

Thinking of papers, some topics we should make notes on during the expedition:
- Magic use in northern latitudes
- Multiple winds on the same battlefield
- Magical geography(?) of northern latitudes (our books made no mention of the south-bound jetstream effect)
- Effect of extreme distance on a familiar bond
- Use of magic to argument engineering contraptions
- Comparative psychology of dragons

Any other ideas?
 
DragonParadox said:
Are we entirely sure it's an Ice Witch? Maybe it will be an Ungol Hag, she is supposed to lead us to the artifact and their powers looks a good bit more compatible with stealth.
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We were given the task by Ice Witches, I don't know of any examples of Ice Witches and Hags cooperating. It might be a non-magical agent, but I doubt it'll be an Ungol Hag.
 
LightLan said:
I think plenty of them are simply worried about losing the possibility to embargo the empire in order to keep from being forcibly reintegrated.

Plenty of people in the empire would love to have Marienburg's taxes again.
Too many for Marienburg's liking are willing to use force to achieve this.
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I'm pretty sure that is the canal goes though Marianburg's days of independence are indeed numbered. The empress has plans and push comes to shove the Empire only needs a few years of relative peace to crush Marianburg and every threat removed like say the campaign in Silvania brings that moment closer.
 
veekie said:
Which is probably where the plague/food poisoning stunt came from. They know the dwarves are very unlikely to realize the Umgi are more sickly than usual, and theres basically negligible chances of the dwarves being directly affected by any such efforts anyway.

But I don't think they actually know what they can do about it - trying to get a Dwarf King to Stop doing something they had already committed their Hold to doing is immensely difficult without making it a martial matter.

My guesstimate - they know they can't stop the dwarves, but they CAN throw on another decade of project delays to force the Empire to deal in their favor from the economic pressures.
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I vaguely remember someone mentioning it before, but there is another possible explanation: Karak Varn is currently held by Skaven, and not very far from the canal site. They're not Eshin or Pestilens, but they'll still know how to sneak around and use poison and disease as weapons.

The Dwarves are always on guard, but the Imperial human laborers won't even know they exist, at least outside of a vague "Karak Varn is occupied by Beastmen".
 
Angelform said:
Oh certainly. But the time for that is when they are using magic, not when socialising.
We wrote our paper on the workings of Anvils Of Doom long before Kragg was willing to give us the time of day.

Thinking of papers, some topics we should make notes on during the expedition:
- Magic use in northern latitudes
- Multiple winds on the same battlefield
- Magical geography(?) of northern latitudes (our books made no mention of the south-bound jetstream effect)
- Effect of extreme distance on a familiar bond
- Use of magic to argument engineering contraptions
- Comparative psychology of dragons

Any other ideas?
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Maybe a few?
-The impact of the Rite of Passage, and by extrapolation other similar spells, on long-distance travel
-Notes on the kurgan tribes we encounter, and the provisions they provide
-Observations on dwarven relations with elven exiles
 
Yeah, Marienburg leadership is basicly in the situation where they can risk their political power (and possibly lives), or the very existence of Marienburg, and they have decided to go big.
 
Glau said:
I'm honestly pretty interested in seeing how the K8P wizards as a group treat and are treated by the Altdorf wizards. It's got to be kinda weird, hopping into this expedition as a journeyman and feeling like a third wheel around this crew that already has a retaken Karak under their belts. Jealousy? Attempts to prove oneself? Sucking up? We'll see!
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Agreed, I am so looking forward to the journeyman! I really want to see a Grey Journeyman's reaction to going on an expedition with the newly minted Lady Magister. I honestly do expect a little sucking up though, I mean you are getting a chance to spend months in close contact with one of the few dozen Lord Magisters in existence? You know your performance here is going to impact your career going forward.

My eyes are open for potential duckling recruitment.
 
DragonParadox said:
I'm pretty sure that is the canal goes though Marianburg's days of independence are indeed numbered. The empress has plans and push comes to shove the Empire only needs a few years of relative peace to crush Marianburg and every threat removed like say the campaign in Silvania brings that moment closer.
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Well, yes and no. Marienburg isn't exactly defenseless, and in a hypothetical future scenario where Empire is the agressor, it wouldn't have Barak Varr's help, not to mention that Ulthuan might be more motivated to outright express their displeasure.
 
Horium said:
Well, yes and no. Marienburg isn't exactly defenseless, and in a hypothetical future scenario where Empire is the agressor, it wouldn't have Barak Varr's help, not to mention that Ulthuan might be more motivated to outright express their displeasure.
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Plus, even if Marienburg does get reconquered it's likely that most of the families that are in power will stay in power- you can't gut the bureaucracy of a major trading hub like Marienburg without basically ruining its value for years to come. They'll be paying more taxes and to different people, and probably get kicked a peg or two down the totem pole, but they would survive the experience.
 
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    Horium said:
    Well, yes and no. Marienburg isn't exactly defenseless, and in a hypothetical future scenario where Empire is the agressor, it wouldn't have Barak Varr's help.
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    Why wouldn't they though? The canal means more contact between the Empire and Barak Var, more trade and more shared interests. The dwarfs certainly would understand the impulse to wage a campaign of reconquest and it's not like Marienburg's decades long independence will mean anything to them.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Why wouldn't they though? The canal means more contact between the Empire and Barak Var, more trade and more shared interests. The dwarfs certainly would understand the impulse to wage a campaign of reconquest and it's not like Marienburg's decades long independence will mean anything to them.
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    Because I can't remember a single time that any dwarf karak supported a conquest of a human nation, let alone an Order one.

    Also, in that case, Ulthuan would definitely get involved.
     
    DragonParadox said:
    Why wouldn't they though? The canal means more contact between the Empire and Barak Var, more trade and more shared interests. The dwarfs certainly would understand the impulse to wage a campaign of reconquest and it's not like Marienburg's decades long independence will mean anything to them.
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    Sure they would be ok with The Empire retaking Marienburg, May even approve of it. But that does not mean they will be willing to sent dwarves to die in The Empires offensive war. Not when population crunch is always such an issue for them and they have to commit a larger part of their navy to pirate suppression as the extra trade attracts more bandits and pirates.
     
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