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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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SaltyWaffles said:
Except the EIC isn't engaged in immoral/violent/underhanded practices? Mathilde is keeping a close eye on it and instilling best practices into it specifically to avoid that problem from manifesting. While the whole "Eastern Imperial Company" thing does harken to the East India Trade Company, it's simply a joke, not something to be taken seriously. The EITC was infamous for having its own (and massive) private army and navy, not to mention its own private (and large) empire, coupled with enormous abuses and atrocities. The EIC isn't even remotely interested in the same kinds of ambitions--it doesn't have its own private empire and doesn't want one; one of its core principles is "don't skin the sheep", meaning don't exploit your state or populations for the sake of profit, because you'll soon need that population and state to be as strong as possible so you don't die horribly to omnicidal monsters. The only private forces it has are ones strictly for protecting trade routes, and that actually is a vital service that benefits a lot more than just the EIC (since threats to trade routes are at best bandits, and at worst forces of Chaos).
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Those were words, some of which I have thoughts about, but you missed the other thing I said about this topic, and it is relevant:
BeepSmile said:
I'm dropping this line of conversation about the EIC for good.
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chocolote12 said:
Hmm, that's what I remembered too. But the quest started 2470, and the Betrayal of Horseman was 2457, so starting then implies it should have already occurred.

Maybe the date was extended to make his ascension to Patriarch physically possible? He had a progression rate faster than an RPG character who never took time skips, and toning that down would be perfectly reasonable.
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Think of it like the Karag Dum expedition: while the actual events happened before the quest started, and thus "should" be fixed before the point of divergence, they exist in quantum superposition until measured by an outside observer*, i.e. us, the questers, which is why we're preparing for a bunch of different outcomes instead of just the canon one. This preserves dramatic tension and prevents metagaming of things that "already happened" but don't actually become public knowledge until much later in the timeline.

*i know this is a terrible misrepresentation of quantum mechanics and not at all how it actually works, please don't yell at me BurnNote
 
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LightLan said:
Yes, but what Thorek learns in Dum might cause him to insist that the KaK Runesmiths take the Slayer Oath.
I can't see them reacting well to that.
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Slayer Oaths are personal choices.
He could try to peer pressure them into taking the slayer oath, but he can't make them.
See a certain shameful king.

I'm not sure he'd want to anyways.
 
Let's speculate about how one would rewrite the Van Horstmann plotline to make sense.

The key components, as far as I can tell:
• Van Horstmann has a major grudge against the Light College because of something they did to his sister.
• As a result of this, he plots to destroy them from the inside of his own free will, even without any Chaotic influence.
• He's stupendously talented at Hysh, and has a meteoric rise through the ranks.
• Once he reaches Magister/Lord Magister, he abuses his trust and access to captured relics from beneath the Pyramid of Light to gain even more power.
• He executes a cunning plot to kill off the old Light Patriarch and become the Light Patriarch himself, gets called out on it, and runs.

My immediate thoughts on how to make things more sensible:
• The snake plot is the Light College being dumb evil for the sake of it, and should be excised entirely. I can think of some more reasonable alternatives - the Light Wizards who hurt his sister might have been corrupted themselves, or perhaps his sister was actually using Dhar (if only to the degree that the Hedgefolk do) and ran into some super fanatical types.
• I think the whole thing works better if Van Horstmann only got corrupted to Chaos after he started digging around in the Light Colleges forbidden archives, instead of being all tattoo'd up with Tzeentch's stuff from the beginning. This also means that he had to get to Lord Magister without Tzeentch's help, so he can be a legitimate Mathilde-tier talent without any cheating.
 
Redshirt Army said:
The snake plot is the Light College being dumb evil for the sake of it, and should be excised entirely. I can think of some more reasonable alternatives - the Light Wizards who hurt his sister might have been corrupted themselves, or perhaps his sister was actually using Dhar (if only to the degree that the Hedgefolk do) and ran into some super fanatical types.
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Innocent bystander to a trigger happy Battle Wizard or a miscast? If his sister had been in Drakenhof he'd have reason enough to hate the Light college over Jovi.
 
Mopman43 said:
Innocent bystander to a trigger happy Battle Wizard or a miscast? If his sister had been in Drakenhof he'd have reason enough to hate the Light college over Jovi.
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Funnily enough, so does Mathilde! Shame we're already so deep into the romance thing by this point, you know. That would have made for a really interesting relationship. :V
 
Vote is still anyone's game; the top plan has only 40% of the voters on board.

Really neat to see how the following "template" has universal agreement among the top 5 plans:
  • Max and Johann do their own things
  • Write the second paper with Adela
  • Scout the steppes
  • Work on fog path with the Gambler
  • Enchant super-robes
  • Recruit somebody (4/5 plans have Karak Azul Runesmiths + either Damsels or Light Wizards; one plan goes for Thorek himself instead of runesmiths in general)
  • Take a self-improvement action (either Pall of Shadow practice or Branulhune style development)
That is extremely specific levels of agreement on 3 personal AP, 2 half-AP, and a free action, as well as general agreement on what sorts of things the next 2 personal AP should be spent on. This implies that there is extremely strong consensus on the vast majority of "what Mathilde ought to do next turn," so even though the currently-leading plan lacks a majority, this vote is not nearly as divided as last turn's, which is very nice from a "Pickle doesn't get stressed out reading the thread" perspective.
Adhoc vote count started by Axel Fones on Sep 13, 2020 at 8:41 PM, finished with 505 posts and 77 votes.
  • [X] PLAN: Chaos makes Taal feel peeved!
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations. (NEW)
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X][EIC] Integrate the Gong Farmers and the Niter Factory into the EIC, and expand production.
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Damsels of Bretonnia, Azul Runesmiths)
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Try to create them.
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (with an aim to have physically indefatigable always on (Overwork)
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
    -[X] Write a paper: Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela (Serenity)
    [X] Plan: Fog Path to Success (Damsels and Rune smiths)
    -[X] Contains an overwork action
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X] EIC: Improve the EIC's paramilitary river navy. (NEW)
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (always on).
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Damsels of Bretonnia, Runesmiths of Azul)
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
    -[X] Write a paper: select which. [ Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela ] (Serenity)
    [X] Plan Perfectly Balanced
    -[X] Contains 1 Overwork action
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition: Karak Azul Runesmiths + Light Wizards
    -[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Try to create them.
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Aethyric Armour Robes
    --[X] Goal: Incorporating mastery and persistent effect
    --[X] Using powerstone(s) + helldrake scales + We silk as available/necessary
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] Coin: The Gambler
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X] EIC: Integrate the Gong Farmers and the Niter Factory into the EIC, and expand production.
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
    -[X] SERENITY: Write a paper: Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela (FADING)
    [X] Plan Unconvention
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Light College, Azul Runesmiths)
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Try to create them.
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (with an aim to have physically indefatigable always on) (Use powerstone and drake scales) (Overwork)
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Adela and some human siege weapons and operators for the Karag Dum Expedition.
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
    -[X] Write a paper: Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela (Serenity)
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations. (NEW)
    -[X] EIC: Found an auditors division, to make sure the ledgers are in order.
    [X] Plan: Fog Path to Success (Damsels and Thorek)
    -[X] Contains an overwork action
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X] EIC: Improve the EIC's paramilitary river navy. (NEW)
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (always on).
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Damsels of Bretonnia, Thorek Ironbrow)
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
    -[X] Write a paper: select which. [ Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela ] (Serenity)
    [X] PLAN: No Risking Runesmiths
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations. (NEW)
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X][EIC] Integrate the Gong Farmers and the Niter Factory into the EIC, and expand production.
    -[X] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Try to create them.
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (with an aim to have physically indefatigable always on (Overwork)
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
    -[X] Write a paper: Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela (Serenity)
    [X] PLAN: Escape Cavalry
    -[X] MAX: Learn a spell: Armor of Lead
    -[X] JOHANN: Learn a spell: Armor of Lead
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X] EIC: Improve the EIC's paramilitary river navy. (NEW)
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Knights of Bretonnia via Soizic, Azul Runesmiths)
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Try to create them.
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (with an aim to have physically indefatigable always on (Overwork)
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
    -[X] Write a paper: Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela (Serenity)
    [X] PLAN: Chaos makes Taal feel peeved, Dig Down Edition!
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations. (NEW)
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X][EIC] Integrate the Gong Farmers and the Niter Factory into the EIC, and expand production.
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Damsels of Bretonnia, Azul Runesmiths)
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Try to create them.
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (with an aim to have physically indefatigable always on, besides AA). (Overwork)
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have additional rooms excavated underneath your Penthouse: -150gc for 6 rooms.
    -[X] Write a paper: Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela (Serenity)
    [X] Plan: Fog Path and Fog Mark
    -[X] Contains an overwork action
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X] EIC: Integrate the Gong Farmers and the Niter Factory into the EIC, and expand production.
    -[X] Gain enough control of your attraction to smoke and gases to have it collect away from your face.
    -[X] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (always on).
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Damsels of Bretonnia, Runesmiths of Azul)
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
    -[X] Write a paper: select which. [ Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela ] (Serenity)
    [X] Plan: Fog Path to Success (A Damsel and Questing Knight, Rune smiths)
    -[X] Contains an overwork action
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X] EIC: Improve the EIC's paramilitary river navy. (NEW)
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (always on).
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (A Damsel and Questing Knights, Runesmiths of Azul)
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
    -[X] Write a paper: select which. [ Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela ] (Serenity)
    [X] PLAN: Chaos makes Taal feel peeved! (A Damsel and her knight's version)
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations. (NEW)
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X][EIC] Integrate the Gong Farmers and the Niter Factory into the EIC, and expand production.
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (A Damsels and Questing Knights, Runesmiths of Azul)
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Try to create them.
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (with an aim to have physically indefatigable always on (Overwork)
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
    -[X] Write a paper: Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela (Serenity)
    [X] Plan: Ranald's Path (Damsels and Rune smiths)
    -[X] Investigate how the Vitae reacts with Divine Magic.
    -[X] Contains an overwork action
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X] EIC: Improve the EIC's paramilitary river navy. (NEW)
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (always on).
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Damsels of Bretonnia, Runesmiths of Azul)
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
    -[X] Write a paper: select which. [ Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela ] (Serenity)
    [X] Plan: Fog Path with Questing Knights
    -[X] Contains an overwork action
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X] EIC: Improve the EIC's paramilitary river navy. (NEW)
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Try to see through Pall of Darkness with your improved magical senses.
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery (always on).
    --[X] Use Ulgu power stones and drake scales to assist with the enchantment if it would help.
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Bretonnian Questing Knights via Soizic, Runesmiths of Azul)
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Add security measures to your Penthouse to prevent forcible entry.
    -[X] Write a paper: select which. [ Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela ] (Serenity)
    [X] PLAN: Taal plan, with Better Robes and EIC Marienburg
    -[X] MAX: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations.
    -[X] JOHANN: Allow him to spend all his time on his own preparations. (NEW)
    -[X] DUCK: Attempt to recruit Esbern and Seija and their compatriots of the Knights of Taal's Fury.
    -[X][EIC] Insert agents into a particular province, cult, company, or institution to start gathering their secrets.
    --[X] Marienburg
    -[X] Attempt to recruit assistance for the Karag Dum Expedition. (Damsels of Bretonnia, Azul Runesmiths)
    -[X] With the help of a gyrocarriage, personally scout part of the route specify: Western Great Steppes
    -[X] Continue to work on your 'Fog Path' spell.
    --[X] The Gambler: specify an action this will apply to: Fog path spell
    -[X] Branulhune's ability to disappear and reappear at a thought allows entirely new forms of combat. Try to create them.
    -[X] Enchant an item with a Fiendishly Complex or easier spell: Robe with AA and AA mastery, trying to keep the spell Mastery always on. (Overwork)
    --[X] Use Powerstone(s) and Drake scales to do this if needed
    -[X] PENTHOUSE: Have a tower built atop Karag Nar: -100gc for 1 room, bonus to room's purpose.
    -[X] Write a paper: Warp Lightning observations - shared with Adela (Serenity)
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Mopman43 said:
Innocent bystander to a trigger happy Battle Wizard or a miscast? If his sister had been in Drakenhof he'd have reason enough to hate the Light college over Jovi.
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It'd require the College to lose track of their relations I think, and be an action done by a higherup or someone backed by the College on it.

Seems the most likely that makes sense is that said sister was actually a Witch and got hunted down by a College-Witch Hunter collaboration.

Then you still have a Chaosplot but one harder to catch.
 
chocolote12 said:
was the betrayal of Horseman a thing in the quest's timeline?
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Gavin Prince said:
he might show up anyway if he's feeling frisky.
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Redshirt Army said:
Let's speculate about how one would rewrite the Van Horstmann plotline to make sense.
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BoneyM said:
Also keep in mind that at some point in the not-so-distant future I'm going to have to roll a will check to keep van Horstmann from being entirely loyal to the Empire and an overall charming and helpful person just to fuck with the thread, and that's going to have a really high DC.
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Divided Loyalties should clearly feature BoJack Van Horseman, Mutant, dealing with depression long after his betrayal and subversion of the Colleges of Magic as he Plots his glorious return.
 
picklepikkl said:
Really neat to see how the following "template" has universal agreement among the top 5 plans:
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Eh. I really don't think only 1 scouting action is appropriate. But I don't think a plan vote for doing more scouting actions is going to ever win against the laundry list of prep-work people want to do instead, so I'm picking my battles and just not bothering. I'm sure there are other people who have other areas they could have pushed for (and gotten some minority number of votes) but we've been over and over our expedition planning for multiple turns now, so it's pretty clear what's popular and what's not.

I'm still completely baffled by the Damsels coming out of left field, but I guess when you have the dice on your side any longshot looks like a reasonable choice.
 
Derpmind said:
I'm still completely baffled by the Damsels coming out of left field
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Eh, there's been people discussing it basically since we started recruiting for the expedition.

Redshirt Army said:
Gonna be honest, even if the Damsel recruiting works, I don't expect it to end well. The Lady kinda hates Ranald, y'know, so inviting one of her reps may cause severe issues.
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I mean, canon Bretonnia doesn't like Ranald, but that's Bretonnia the society, it doesn't necessarily mean that the Lady herself cared all that much.

And this won't be canon Bretonnia anyway.
 
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Mopman43 said:
Eh, there's been people discussing it basically since we started recruiting for the expedition.


I mean, canon Bretonnia doesn't like Ranald, but that's Bretonnia the society, it doesn't necessarily mean that the Lady herself cared all that much.

And this won't be canon Bretonnia anyway.
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The Lady is literally the goddess of Bretonnia, and exerts major influence over it. I think it's safe to say that she shares in an opinion so many of her people have, because she could correct it if she didn't.

And we know the distaste is still there in DL - we bought Bretonnian books on Ranald and they treat him as a proscribed god and generally say bad things about him.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Gonna be honest, even if the Damsel recruiting works, I don't expect it to end well. The Lady kinda hates Ranald, y'know, so inviting one of her reps may cause severe issues.
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Redshirt Army said:
The Lady is literally the goddess of Bretonnia, and exerts major influence over it. I think it's safe to say that she shares in an opinion so many of her people have, because she could correct it if she didn't.

And we know the distaste is still there in DL - we bought Bretonnian books on Ranald and they treat him as a proscribed god and generally say bad things about him.
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Ranald is not proscribed in Bretonnia. Bretonnia sees him as less of a thief god and more of a trade god than the Empire does. He is "popular" in the cities and is the patron god of Bretonnia's merchants. Bretonnian books do talk shit about Ranald but that's because Bretonnia has a "merchants are by definition thieves" outlook and those books were probably written by Verenans to boot. He's legal though.
 
Redshirt Army said:
The Lady is literally the goddess of Bretonnia, and exerts major influence over it. I think it's safe to say that she shares in an opinion so many of her people have, because she could correct it if she didn't.

And we know the distaste is still there in DL - we bought Bretonnian books on Ranald and they treat him as a proscribed god and generally say bad things about him.
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We regularly work with a Lady worshipper as an open Ranald worshipper and there's no problem there so far.

The Lady doesn't care. The Lords do, because Ranald is dishonorable, Ranald has a religious requirement to mess with oppressors, AND the Bretonnian social structure is designed such that a lot of low level abuses(which are themselves unchivalrous) are very easy to get away with.

The worshippers do not wholly share beliefs with their deity. Not even their champions.
 
NSMS said:
Ranald is tolerated in the Empire, but is an outright proscribed/forbidden god in Bretonnia.
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Knights of the Realm only says Ranald is seen as the god of Merchants in Bretonnia, while Tome of Salvation says that his cultists are persecuted (along with Verenans).

Canon is whatever you decide it to be.
 
Mopman43 said:
Knights of the Realm only says Ranald is seen as the god of Merchants in Bretonnia, while Tome of Salvation says that his cultists are persecuted (along with Verenans).

Canon is whatever you decide it to be.
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It can be, but Boney has in fact made a decision:

HanEmpire said:
@BoneyM what gods do the Bretonnian peasants usually worship? And can we have Mathilde or EITC spread the Ranaldian Cult in Bretonnia?
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BoneyM said:
It would absolutely be considered a hostile act by Bretonnia authorities and most employees would be unwilling to risk execution.
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