Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] Elder Hluodwica, High Priestess of Esmerelda and civilian leader of the Eight Peaks Halflings.
[X] The Gold College, to see what's become of their research into Skaven technology.
 
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia
 
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When there was fighting to be done, Panoramia was the only journeymanling that was fighting so hard that we had to tell her to back off. She's not fighting right now because there's no fighting to be done. You know how she gets all that work done in the growing season and then can't do anything when things aren't growing? Her focus works the same way: When she's focusing on something it's the only thing in the world for her. As soon as she moves on to something else she's going to focus on that just as hard as she focuses right now on her farming. She's guaranteed to end up fighting again, if only to defend her friends the Halflings against the next Waaagh, and as someone who understands preparation and maintenance and timelines, she's going to be ready for it.

Also, remember how we talked with her about miscasts? She might have suffered one or two by now - we'd probably have to ask her - but she probably still hasn't gotten one bad enough to make her worry about magic. She's no more afraid of Battle Magic than she was of spamming Father of Thorns in the middle of the night. She's sufficiently skilled, powerful, and responsible enough that I think she's guaranteed to be offered the opportunity to learn Battle Magic, and I think that she's guaranteed to take it. And you know what? Even if she miscasts horrendously on her first attempt, I don't think that she'd swear Battle Magic off entirely the way Regimand did. Look at how she reacted to our lecture about miscasts: She could have gone home and never gotten in another fight. Look at how she reacted to K8P's Waystones: She just casually grabs power out of them. Look at how she reacted to the chance to rebuild the Karak's ecology: She could have gone home and qualified as a Magister, but she stuck around and took over the whole project. She's going to look at Battle Magic the same way.
You are doing a ton of assuming and speculating into things, and stating your conclusions as facts. o_O All of this stuff is basically your own interpretations and assumptions. Like... It sounds less like you're interested in Panoramia, and more-so this idea of Panoramia you've constructed and built up in your head. And will argue with anybody who disagrees with the interpretation of this vision.

I mean, "no more afraid of Battle Magic than"? How the heck would you know this? How the heck would you know that she'd not be scared off by miscast attempts? Heck, it's just as viable a line of argumentation to speculate that we scared her off of serious fighting with magic, and that she resolved to never learn Battle Magic. That, all this while she'd not truly feared miscasts, because her "worst" was her hand seizing up for a bit; and so she either doesn't think miscasts will happen to her, or has decided to avoid anything big enough that will risk them. All of those things are at least as viable a conclusion to reach, as the ones you did. But you proclaim yours with the power of truth. (And anybody making a simple remark of "Look at how all she does the year is, oh yes, more farming." gets a defensive "Straight up false, and I'm getting annoyed that people keep propagating this incorrect claim" from you. You make a lot more claims, and go out to make assumptions for Panoramia's character and goals and beliefs and etc, all the time. Comparatively, somebody saying that Panoramia spends all her damn time farming is mild.) Similar sort of thing for the Waystones; to her, it's not some super-dangerous or super-mysterious thing. It's just another thing the Jade College knew about, and so taught its Wizards, and so it's just another thing Panoramia knows about and makes use of.

Being willing to fight with normal-magic, when it's an expedition or a Karak under siege-like wartime pressure being surrounded by foes still, is different from willing to become a Battle Mage/learn Battle Magic. Not to mention that it still feels like a reach. She'd first have to become a Magister. Then she'd have to get in good enough standing that they'd be willing to teach her Battle Magic. Then she'd need to learn Battle Magic. That's all years away. And a lot of uncertainty away. Also... She no longer really needs to fight to keep her friends safe. The situation is no longer so dangerous that every bit could help. Because, now all 8 peaks are conquered. And there's a Tower Of Doom to defend it. So, most likely Panoramia wouldn't feel any need to learn Battle Magic at all.

Johann on the other hand has been a Magister for years, has known Fiendishly Complex spells (IIRC?), gotten a staff, has a Battle Wizard Lady Magister for a Master, and is going to be joining Mathilde to the Chaos Wastes. He's far more likely to learn Battle Magic, by comparison.

This digression about Battle Magic -- hypothetical Battle Magic learning at that -- is weird and it's a bit baffling it's come about. But there it is, I guess.
 
[X] Gretel, who's apparently spending her newly-earned wealth to make herself at home.
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Elder Hluodwica, High Priestess of Esmerelda and civilian leader of the Eight Peaks Halflings.
[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Follow up on your donation of the Skaven organ-vat, and see what has been made of it.
 
And anybody making a simple remark of "Look at how all she does the year is, oh yes, more farming." gets a defensive "Straight up false, and I'm getting annoyed that people keep propagating this incorrect claim" from you.
You said that all she wanted to do was farming. I quoted her wanting to do something other than farming. You said that she had no ambition. I quoted her wanting to play with the biggest Waystone circle she's ever heard of. And that happened immediately after she said that she liked farming because it meant that she had the food of the entire Karak in her own hands!
 
You said that all she wanted to do was farming. I quoted her wanting to do something other than farming. You said that she had no ambition. I quoted her wanting to play with the biggest Waystone circle she's ever heard of.

She idly noted that there might be some papers there. Not really seeing burning ambition there, just the normal reaction of and academic seeing something interesting. While I agree that Panoramia has gotten less screen time than Johan and therefore could be more interesting and ambitious than him she could also just be well... boring. No hidden depths, no great courage unless she has to fight and mostly interested in farming. Of the two wizard options Panoramia is the mystery box, maybe she is worth it, maybe she's not.
 
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Stirland, to see for yourself how the war against Sylvania is progressing.
 
In many ways, Panoramia is the most ambitious of the wizards in K8P discounting Mathilde.
And not only that, she has clear and concrete goals.
Panoramia looked at the tens of thousands of people gathered, and went "i'm going to feed every fucking one of them", and then she did.
She may not be in the kings council, but she has, if not the control, then atleast major influence over the karaks food supply, and that, is power, in the realest sense possible.

She "likes farming", yeah, because doing so lets her feed an entire nation/city.
 
[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
[X] Sir Ruprecht Wulfhart, leader of the frontier town of Ulrikadrin.
[X] Kasmir, to see how he's keeping himself busy in Sylvania.
[X] Elder Hluodwica, High Priestess of Esmerelda and civilian leader of the Eight Peaks Halflings.
 
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In many ways, Panoramia is the most ambitious of the wizards in K8P discounting Mathilde.
And not only that, she has clear and concrete goals.
Panoramia looked at the tens of thousands of people gathered, and went "i'm going to feed every fucking one of them", and then she did.
She may not be in the kings council, but she has, if not the control, then atleast major influence over the karaks food supply, and that, is power, in the realest sense possible.

She "likes farming", yeah, because doing so lets her feed an entire nation/city.

Sure you can argue that is ambitious, the trouble is that it is ambition for a fundamentally boring thing. You only really notice food when it's missing.
 
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia
[X] [ROMANCE] Elector Countess Roswita van Hal
[X] Gretel, who's apparently spending her newly-earned wealth to make herself at home.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
 
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Sure you can argue that is ambitious, the trouble is that it is ambition for a fundamentally boring thing. You only really notice food when it's missing.
Tell that to a gourmet chef.
So, fine, you find Panoriam boring, well i find Johann about as interesting as a piece of cardboard, except that i can use cardboard to play with my cat.
But atleast i can understand why other people do find him interesting.
 
In many ways, Panoramia is the most ambitious of the wizards in K8P discounting Mathilde.
And not only that, she has clear and concrete goals.
Panoramia looked at the tens of thousands of people gathered, and went "i'm going to feed every fucking one of them", and then she did.
She may not be in the kings council, but she has, if not the control, then atleast major influence over the karaks food supply, and that, is power, in the realest sense possible.

She "likes farming", yeah, because doing so lets her feed an entire nation/city.

Johann came to K8Ps to make it possible reverse engineer skaven-tech. That was an enormous and possibly world shaking ambition.

He's quite possibly largely succeeded.

He's phenomenally ambitious, based on his history.
 
Tell that to a gourmet chef.
So, fine, you find Panoriam boring, well i find Johann about as interesting as a piece of cardboard, except that i can use cardboard to play with my cat.
But atleast i can understand why other people do find him interesting.

Do you imagine food porn is going to be a great part of the quest? The reason I called it boring is that it is something that it in unlikely to show up much in the quest or be engaged with.

Personally I find both Panoramia and Johan flawed which is why I am not voting for either, but would be fine if either of them wins.
 
come on people, vote Antion! the person that mathy has the most fun with.

a fun, happy family live full of silly shenanigans!
Heh, it's true, there is a lot of closeness and sheer affection there. Anton is just easy to get along with, and openly cares about you if you're a friend and will back you and show his support for you... Dammit, now I still don't know which of Anton or Johann I'm going to for for sure again.

Really, Anton's the one main/only one who's felt like he's given off affection on-screen, of the people on the list.

To me, that says that Anton is definitely a possibility and a viable path if he gets picked. Whereas everybody else is in the "Let's try and see if it's possible? Let's see if there's any interest or return there?" i.e. If Anton gets picked, he feels to me like he could easily have a relationship. Everybody else, there's some varying level of "Will this person want to try to make things work?" Johann alone managing to feel like he makes it close to that level. (Others feeling just like people we have some things in common with and interact with, or are distant strangers who have some interesting things about them, as varies.)
 
Johann came to K8Ps to make it possible reverse engineer skaven-tech. That was an enormous and possibly world shaking ambition.

He's quite possibly largely succeeded.


He's phenomenally ambitious, based on his history.
Well, the gold college may end up succeeding, partially or otherwise.
But Johann himself traded his ambition in for a stick.
Now, it is a very fancy stick, but then Mathilde went and made a better one on lark so it kinda deflates the fanciness of that stick. :V
 
Well, the gold college may end up succeeding, partially or otherwise.
But Johann himself traded his ambition in for a stick.
Now, it is a very fancy stick, but then Mathilde went and made a better one on lark so it kinda deflates the fanciness of that stick. :V

Johann didn't trade his ambition for a stick. Unless the Gold College is going to bury the results, he won twice. He got the Gold College to do the heavy lifting and got himself a magical staff. He achieved his ambition, in large part, and got paid for doing so.

The goal is the point, not the bragging rights of doing it all personally when other people can help. It's not all about ego for everyone.
 
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[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia

Right, that's the most important part of the vote. Will figure out the rest once things have started to stabilize and I know what has hopes of beatin out the "wtf-is-wrong-with-you-f*ck-no-that's-squicky" option.
 
She'd first have to become a Magister. Then she'd have to get in good enough standing that they'd be willing to teach her Battle Magic. Then she'd need to learn Battle Magic. That's all years away.
And? Her Magisterial exams would probably go better than ours did, since she's held off on them for several years after she was ready. She's probably already in good enough standing that they'd be willing to teach her; recall that the Grey order is more paranoid than the rest put together. And, of course, her parents are both deeply embedded in the Jade College and will smooth her path politically. She's guaranteed to get access to Battle Magic. The only question is whether she does something with it. And I think she will, because she's already thinking about what she's going to do when she finishes fixing the soil and she's now well aware of how dangerous everything is.
She idly noted that there might be some papers there. Not really seeing burning ambition there, just the normal reaction of and academic sing something interesting. While I agree that Panoramia has gotten less screen time than Johan and therefore could be more interesting and ambitious than him she could also just be well... boring. No hidden depths, no great courage unless she has to fight and mostly interested in farming. Of the two wizard options Panoramia is the mystery box, maybe she is worth it, maybe she's not.
Here's what I'm working off of.
"Early days yet," the Halfling says, "but promising. A lot of our crops won't grow this far south but we've sent word back to Barak Varr for seeds from Tilea - we're about as far south as Luccini by my reckoning, and while we're not likely to get their rain, if we can find enough water to irrigate that won't matter. So it becomes entirely a matter of soil quality, and between the amount of corpses we've got for fertilizer and young Panoramia we should be able to make something of the Eastern Valley."
The halflings cite her as basically the only reason the Eastern Valley is fertile - with both fertilizer and Panoramia they should make it work; with only one or the other that'd be downgraded from "should" to "could" or "might be able to".
But this valley means I can do something nobody else in the Order has been able to even try: to create arable land from a complete blank slate. No variables, no surprises, no fires, no floods, no droughts. Just dead soil and water and the Halflings and me, creating something from nothing. If I succeed, it's because of me. If I fail, it's because of me.
Panoramia gives lip service to the halflings, but when it actually comes down to her professional instincts, she think that she's single-handedly responsible for the fertility of the soil in the Eastern Valley.
"Even with fertilizer?"

"Every major battle shaves years off, but it's still going to be a long, hard slog. Elder Hluodwica has offered me a long-term contract and sponsorship for a Magister bid."

You smile. "That's great news! Are you going to go for it?"
Finally, the original point: She started off saying that she'd been hired to fix the soil. My read on this is that her talent for understatement is as impressive as Mathilde's, and that when she says the waystones have "A few papers in them" she means that she's going to blow the lid off the state of the art.
Really, Anton's the one main/only one who's felt like he's given off affection on-screen, of the people on the list.
Honestly, Anton felt like he cared about Mathilde, but that he cared about her exactly as much as he cares about everyone. The standout for me was actually Panoramia; like I said, she was the only person who cared enough to try to find out something about Mathilde rather than just letting Mathilde interrogate her.
 
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Do you imagine food porn is going to be a great part of the quest? The reason I called it boring is that it is something that it in unlikely to show up much in the quest or be engaged with.

Personally I find both Panoramia and Johan flawed which is why I am not voting for either, but would be fine if either of them wins.
Not everything we do has to be super interesting, and i don't think Panoramia romance would be centered around her work.
She is smart, hard working, ambitious and funny wizard, if we absolutely must make Mathildes romantic life revolve around her and her SO's work, i'm sure we could pull Pan in on some mega projects, like the aforementioned way stone network.

Johann didn't trade his ambition for a stick. Unless the Gold College is going to bury the results, he won twice. He got the Gold College to do the heavy lifting and got himself a magical staff. He achieved his ambition, in large part, and got paid for doing so.
Johann failed to do what he wanted to do, now someone else will do it instead.
So, tech can be reverse engineered, great.
But there is a reason we don't just hand over every interesting thing we lack time to research to someone else.
 
[X] [ROMANCE] Journeywoman Panoramia
[X] [ROMANCE] Elector Countess Roswita van Hal
[X] [ROMANCE] The Ice Dragon of Karag Zilfin

[X] Barak Varr, to watch the progress of the canal.
[X] Gretel, who's apparently spending her newly-earned wealth to make herself at home.
[X] Belegar, to discuss the northern Karaks and the Expedition.
[X] Eike Hochschild, to get to know your future business partner.
 
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