Panoramia is roughly the third most magically capable wizard in K8P and I believe on a steeper trajectory than any of them except Mathilde. Max was using Relatively Simple spells throughout the Expedition and started working on Moderately Complicated spells (Silver Arrows of Arha) around the time K8P was retaken. Panoramia, meanwhile, was spamming Father of Thorns and Vital Growth (both Moderately Complicated) from the very beginning of the Expedition. She also hit Magister-tier expertise well before Max; the social option to help Panoramia study for her exams has been around since 2482, while Max just barely got nudged over in 2484 by cashing in his part of the Skaven tech haul. Her performance relative to Johann is harder to nail down, but my gut feeling is that Johann isn't making much mystical progress; I think the most noticeable boost he's gotten since the start of the Expedition was the Staff he picked up for the Skaven tech haul. Panoramia, meanwhile, got enough +Magic from new traits and practice that she started learning FC spells (Cure Blight). She still doesn't have a familiar and I'm not sure if she has a Staff.
First of all, thank you for the detailed write up, I know that sort of thing takes time. But while you make a solid case I have to disagree.
We don't actually know her magic score, but I think you're dead on with her being in third place. But I would point out that's in a field where most of the local Wizards have Magic 4 or less. And when we get to spells, as far as we are aware, right now she has nine spells to Johann's 10, which while a numerically small, is not a sign of a steeper magical trajectory given the fact that Johann still does out spell her despite having a massive limitation to the number of spells he has available to learn, I think would indicate that he was far more eager in his pursuit of them, as if he were not, then that disadvantage should see him solidly losing (Or outright a perpetual).
Also I do not think I need to remind the thread of exactly what lengths Johann has undergone in the hopes of improving himself magically, nor what it cost him, nor the fact that he got up and tried again literally next turn.
But I will point out, that when given a "Blank Check" from the Gold College for his part of the Skaven tech Pile, He chose Magical Power over everything else. So while I can't be certain that Johann will end up more magically powerful, I have no doubt that he has more drive when it comes to pursuing Magic Power.
Panoramia has her sights set the highest. Her first goal following the Expedition was to build agriculture from the ground up (
) for a city of hundreds of thousands. She's basically accomplished this. Her next goal is going to be mucking around with K8P's Waystones. She may laugh at our hell tower, but she's also the only wizard in K8P that's thinking on anything like Mathilde's scale. Max wants to shoot orcs and blacksmith well. Johann, as far as I can tell, wants to prove that he's not a failure; he's driven
away from something rather than
toward a goal. Gretel wants mad dosh. Adela wants cool toys. Hubert... honestly I'm not sure what Hubert wants. Panoramia, meanwhile, has already pulled off a Halfling Great Deed and is already looking at a follow-up project of comparable magnitude. Johann doesn't have anything even a little bit like that on his five-year plan and maybe not even on his fifteen-year plan.
I will agree here that while Panoramia's work regarding the food supply is essential and impressive, and that max had the right of it, when he said that helping insure people wont starve is a noble goal. And it is one she has diligently worked towards.
But it's also one that would have gotten done without her. She been hired to help Halflings (and Dwarfs) rebuild a soil from the ground up. This is not a task she has taken on her lonesome (unlike Johann's pursuit of Skaven technology), And while the moot's very nature no doubt plays a large part in their success, I have no doubt that Halflings of any race could have whipped the soil into shape, especially with Dwarf support on hand. I mean hell they were already getting farming work done during the reclamation:
The former Squig-farming portions are a mess of splattered mushroom fluids and smouldering spot-fires, whereas the mushroom-farming parts are filled with busy Dwarves.
And had already secured a water source at that point. I don't what to discount her achievement, but that was a massive collaborative effort
I will give you that her interest in Waystones is a plus, but that seemed more an academic "there's a paper or two in that. " rather than plans to actually fuck about with them, but that might be for the best.
But Ironically enough, Johann does have at least one Great Deed coming up; his shared Skaven goo project with Panoramia. If that is found to have no serious drawbacks, that's going to have far larger repercussions then one self sufficient Karak. And it is something that is
only coming about because Johann was researching Skaven Tech, as it was his interest that lead to that acquisition. And if any of his other reasearch had truly panned out, then that might have been a chance for another major accomplishment right there too.
Hell there's a bit of an argument there that Johann deserve some of the credit for Queekish too, since he was on the raid that lead to Qrech. Only a bit though.
Panoramia isn't intimidated by Mathilde. I get the impression that Mathilde tweaks some of Johann's issues, like whenever he looks at her he can't help but think "I could be like her if I didn't have my Problems".
I don't see that at all, Johann being sore that is:
"They don't teach properties of metals in the Gold College?"
"Probably do to most, but you need to be at least theoretically capable of Alchemy to take the class." He keeps his tone light, but it's clearly artificial.
"Ah." You remember a few of your classmates who ran into similar roadblocks. Most of them are still Apprentices to this day.
*Snip*
Who needs alchemy?"
"Better to do one thing well than be mediocre at everything," you say. "My Master told me that, then got annoyed when I skipped Diplomacy class."
He gives a brief laugh. "I suppose you're as typical a Grey Wizard as I am a Gold."
While she brought up a sore point in how he was denied access to resources made available to others, they immediately after find some mutual understanding and solidarity about not being a typical "Blank" Wizard.
Panoramia is the only human on Mathilde's list that I think wouldn't take orders from her. One of the reasons we don't see her much, especially professionally, is that she's basically in command of a whole chunk of the Karak that's completely non-overlapping with Mathilde's responsibilities. At the very least she's Elder Hluodwica's Learning advisor and I wouldn't be surprised if she's handling Stewardship as well, especially since she's likely taken over those parts of Edda's responsibilities relating to keeping everyone fed. I have trouble seeing Anton or Oswald as Mathilde's equals and it's only going to get worse as Mathilde keeps climbing; if Mathilde went and lived with Anton for a year or two she'd be running the place wthin the week. Mathilde's taken a mentoring role every time she met Roswita, and if Mathilde was Roswita's Learning advisor I think there'd be debate about who was really running Stirland. Johann also defers to Mathilde; just look at the way the Gold Patriarch approached us about the Skaven tech haul.
In command? She's was hired by the Halflings, that doesn't make put her in charge of "A whole Chunk of the Karak". I'm not saying she doesn't have a position of authority, I don't know where you are getting Learning
and Stewardship advisor from. But even if she was that'd still put her at
Belegar->Edda->Hludwica->Panoramia
Compared to Johann's
Belegar->Mathilde->Johann.
And yeah I know, Max and Johann are not advisors, but I hope the point comes accross that they're both relatively up their when it comes down to it, and I imagine if we had to leave a second in command or something, well I don't think we'd pick max.
As for taking over "Edda's responsibilities relating to keeping everyone fed." I'll reiterate my point that Dwarfs were already working on that, and that managing Dwarf farming guilds is well within Edda's Dwarf Wheelhouse. As far as I can tell the only thing she's farmed out is "Wrangling the Humans". I know she's not the best, but I do get a little peeved that people can be so dismissive of Edda.
As for the Johann bits, while yes he does take orders from us, he's also never stopped actively pursuing his own goals this entire time. Except arguable the thing with selling the Skaven Tech.
But well, this is where we have to bring in the fact that this is a quest. If BoneyM one day had said "Johann Sold his Skaven shit" And we lost access to hald of the Jezzials/other mutual stuff with no say in it, the thread would be mad. Mechanically that had to be a questor decision. And while he could have had Johnn refuse to sell his chunk, that would only accomplish some of the goal behind that offer. As we would still have Skaven Tech Duckling actions and the like.
Panoramia is the only person that understands Mathilde. We've worked with Johann and Max far more closely and they've just given up. Anton might have a chance. Oswald nope. Roswita I really, really doubt. I went back and read the not-dates that Mathilde went on, and Panoramia was the only one who tried to learn more about Mathilde. Not only that, she succeeded. Every other not-date was like Mathilde's meeting with Cython but with Mathilde as the big scary mysterious dragon interrogator. Lots of Mathilde steamrollering people and disassembling them with a scalpel. Not much of people reaching back out to Mathilde.
I'm losing steam here, so apologies if I get brief.
But Johann seems to have a good idea about us too:
You're trustworthy and reliable, and that's what matters. Sure, you make things more complicated than they need to be, but everyone needs a hobby.
This might come down to personal interpretation, but that sounds like a spot on description of Mathilde to me. Like genuine hit the nail on the head level of accurate. Yeah Panoramia's got a good grasp on her as a Show-woman, But Johann also seemsjust as aware of how "Nice" we are,a nd of how much of a kick she gets out of being a giant showoff. God's know he's helped her do so.
As for Panoramia asking about us, yeah she was the only one to do so, but well, she was the only one we've gone on an actual one on one over dinner date with. That leaves much more room for that compared to the extensive world building of the religious ceremony.
In short, I think that Panoramia is the only human on Mathilde's list that feels like her peer, and I think she has the best chance of keeping up with Mathilde's skill, responsibility, and personality.
feel safe saying that she's guaranteed to end up learning Battle Magic. Etcetera.
She is a peer, I won't argue that, despite her lack of Magisterdom. Because she is.
But I'd say the same thing for mister "Joined the Grey Wizard in doing Sneaky Things to Skaven to Such a Degree That They Manage to Kick of the Battle for the Entirety of Karak Eight peaks." And Mister "Was the Good Magister to our Scary Magister". Or Mister "Would have kept secrets from us if not for Meta Knowledge, and Inscribed Warning Messages, and tip Off's from Lady Magisters." Or any of the other shit he's done to prove that he's a peer.
Also if you think Mister "Went Blind Trying to Gild His Eyeballs, Then Tried Again" Isn't going to/hasn't already shot for Battle Magic at some point, then well... I don't witty end to that statement thats not mean, so I'll just trail of awkwardly like this.
Though I will say thanks for answering my question again. It's nice to have in depth debates like this, even if I hope you're side loses.
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