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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Omegahugger said:
So the solution I'm hearing is that we should make Mathilde ascend as a Goddess and then make her the patron of the EIC.
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Oooh. Are divine servitors or whatever-they're-called a solution to this? If one can be associated with one aspect of a multifaceted god and thus that facet can be safely worshiped through the servitor, without invoking the others?
Andres110 said:
Or not. Could be the trick is being uncreative. Get dwarf help on standard engineering projects to increase their quality and that's about it.
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I mean we ask them to do stuff that isn't currently a thing dwarfs do.
 
Bargain Hunter: Ranald guides you to the cheapest source for a particular kind of good. When intoning this prayer, you decide the geographical area, type and quantity of good, and its quality. If such goods are unavailable, you learn that.
Eye of Ranald: Ranald blesses you with a fine eye for the value of things

Im tempted to sponsor some worshiper of Ranald to journey to Ind or Cathay and buy some books and other interesting things for us.
 
Shane_357 said:
Oooh. Are divine servitors or whatever-they're-called a solution to this? If one can be associated with one aspect of a multifaceted god and thus that facet can be safely worshiped through the servitor, without invoking the others?
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Divine servants, and sort of. Omegahugger's off about becoming a god, but Mathilde could potentially become a saint.

Tome of Salvation, pages 95
Venerated Souls of the Empire

Just as Sigmar began his existence as a mortal man who elevated his status to that of a God, so too are there other people that are held in extremely high esteem by the citizens of the Empire. Although no other person in "recent" memory has achieved the same status as Sigmar, those individuals that show unparalleled piety, belief, and force of will are treated as demi-Gods by many Old Worlders.

Although they go by many other titles, the most common moniker attached to these esteemed individuals is "Venerated Soul." Another popular title is "Pious" and the two can be used interchangeably. While Venerated Souls are obviously held in the highest regard within the cult they belong to, they are almost universally respected among all the people of the Old World, due to their vigilance, deep faith, and sacrifices in the name of their God.
[...]
Venerated Souls form minor pantheons beneath the banner of their patron deity, representing some historic event or narrow focus. There are Venerated Souls for the protection of children, martyrdom in battle, hearth fires, the prosperity of scriveners, and thousands of other things, some of which that are so obscure as to be almost ludicrous. Needless to say, the vast majority of these Venerated Souls are known or recognised by others of their faith, although there is usually only a handful called on with great frequency.
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Page 98
Guntar the Swift (Ranald)

A particularly famous thief in Altdorf, in life Guntar the Swift claimed he could break in anywhere he chose. A priest of Ranald bet the arrogant youth that he could not break into the Emperor's palace and steal a kiss from the Empress. The youth agreed, and he departed. Hours later, the priest saw the burglar fleeing down a street, but on his cheek he bore the rosy mark of the Empress's kiss. He was drawn and quartered at dawn.
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Praying to Venerated Souls

There may be times in which a cultist prays to a Venerated Soul rather than their specific deity, such as praying to Thea Disl (see Venerated Souls sidebar) when protecting his home from the predations of Greenskins. In most cases, praying to a Venerated Soul has the same results as praying to a deity, as the Venerated Soul gains her power from the deity in the first place. If the GM feels that the prayer is directed to the correct Venerated Soul and for the right reasons, that prayer could be answered in the form of a Blessing (see WFRP, page 171). Alternatively, praying to the appropriate Venerated Soul fulfils the same requirements of an Ingredient in a Divine Spell. Because the power of the Gods is fickle, and the power of the Venerated Souls is tied to them, there is no guarantee that any blessing or bonus will be awarded.
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BoneyM said:
Because of how unstructured the Cult of Ranald is, they tend to only be know to the local Ranaldian community. Mathilde only knows about Saint Grey, Saint Grey, and Saint Grey, and none of them are suitable for merchants.
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Oh huh, so Ranald has legit wizard saints. I think this is the first time I've heard of an Empire cult canonising or even honouring arcane casters.
 
Andres110 said:
I don't think we should go to the Cult of Ranald. Anything a Ranald cultist can do when it comes to stealth and magic, a grey wizard can do better, and the dwarves will trust the wizard more too.
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Might be interesting to set the Cult of Ranald on Marenberg. They wouldn't work well with dwarfs, but how better to counter merchant princes? Merchants tend to hate thieves and gamblers who rig games in their favor, and princes tend to take a dim view of revolutionaries.
 
Andres110 said:
It was a glib way of saying "Merchants in the world of Warhammer Fantasy are already regarded as being dishonest and greedy, so people's opinions won't change, haven't changed, from merchants taking up Ranald worship." He's the main trade god in the Empire and especially Bretonnia, and in Marienburg, where the Cult of Handrich is strongest, Handrich is still only tied with Ranald for being the prime merchant god.
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Ranald represents the pre-modern view of merchants as being essentially parasitic and so disreputable, like the rest of his aspects, while Handrich represents the modern view that merchants create value by what they do and are a respectable profession.

Ranald is the god of merchants as itinerant peddler, while Handrich is the god of the merchant as aspiring prince of commerce.

Handrich is a better merchant god, being a god of the rising middle classes as opposed to the travelling peddler. The EIC is a much better fit for Handrich than Ranald. And that's not a problem. Diluting Ranald's focus and trying to make him a god of commerce rather than crime is unnecessary. This is a polytheistic setting. You can revere multiple gods each in their sphere. He doesn't need to be the god of merchants any more than he needs to be the god of dreams or war.
 
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REAPER35 said:
Might be interesting to set the Cult of Ranald on Marenberg. They wouldn't work well with dwarfs, but how better to counter merchant princes? Merchants tend to hate thieves and gamblers who rig games in their favor, and princes tend to take a dim view of revolutionaries.
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Why assume there is not a dozen there already?
 
Quest said:
Do we know how the Saint Greys became Saints?
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Saint Grey fought in the Great War Against Chaos, and introduced the worship of Ranald to the nascent Grey Order. Saint Grey planted the idea in Grom the Paunch's mind that he'd find better fights outside the Empire. And Saint Grey rode nonstop across the Empire to bring warnings to Journeymen of Dieter IV's outlawing of the Colleges.
 
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BoneyM said:
Saint Grey fought in the Great War Against Chaos, and introduced the worship of Ranald to the nascent Grey Order. Saint Grey planted the idea in Grom the Paunch's mind that he'd find better fights outside the Empire. And Saint Grey rode nonstop across the Empire to bring warnings to Journeymen of Dieter IV's outlawing of the Colleges.
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Is it a thing where if you become a saint in the Wizard Ranald Cult, you are referred to as Saint Grey, or is it that all three of these just adopted Grey as they were under threat?
 
Abhorsen said:
Is it a thing where if you become a saint in the Wizard Ranald Cult, you are referred to as Saint Grey, or is it that all three of these just adopted Grey as they were under threat?
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Partly in emulation of the original Saint Grey, partly to give the larger Grey Order a fig leaf in case they ever become widely known, partly to preserve their anonymity.
 
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Thomasfoolery said:
I'm not interested in potentially burning down the company to pursue that goal. I'm interested in it as a source of profit, intelligence, and influence. It does that very well as it is and I feel mucking with the winning formula that's been developed to be a bad idea.
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Ranald seems to like having high power people maybe we could try converting a baron or two in the right places.
 
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