Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

HavocKeeper · Jul 13, 2020

Andres110 said:
Now the project is about peaceful interaction, not killing dragons.

Ah, my bad. Edited.

BeepSmile · Jul 13, 2020

HeWhoAdds said:
Panoramia absolutely flexing on the thread with her available AP

Ohhhh look at me, I'm Pam! I got all the AP in the world!

Really. Really. Do you? Well fuckin' bully for you, Miss AP, with your AP and forthright understanding of Mathilde and appealing mannerisms and pretty green soul-glow and...

<.<
>.>

Yeah. Go learn some fucking elvish so we can steal your AP to help us with waystone stuff when we have to get round to it! Also, if you have AP, why are you not like, learning spells and preparing for you magister trials? Being magister... uh... being magister saves you some money....

Wow. Yeah. I can see why she gives zero fucks. Being magister or not does not impact on the things she values.

Angelform · Jul 13, 2020

BoneyM said:
[ ] PROJECT: Aethyric Vitae

Can't in good conscience propose this. We already know what use the Dwarfs can put it to. Other than formalising supply and usage there isn't anything that would benefit Belegar or his realm.

[ ] PROJECT: Dragon

… possibly but I would rather leave it to the diplomats. Or indeed wait for the dragon to become active before bothering it. He has slept for years and may sleep for decades more. Mayhap we should let him.

[ ] PROJECT: Cartographer

Worth doing.

[ ] PROJECT: Waystone

We should certainly propose this. Belegar may want to wait but it is our duty as his Loremaster to give him the option.

[ ] PROJECT: Western Gate

Meh. Dwarf fortifications are more than sufficient for the west gate.

[ ] PROJECT: Black Waters

[ ] PROJECT: Marienburg

…while I'm not against being involved, I do question what benefit Belegar would gain from it. Also I question whether Mathilde's talents would be all that useful.

[ ] PROJECT: Karag Dum

Just not interested in this to be honest. If they want Belegar's help they can ask and he can inform us of their need.

[ ] PROJECT: Nagarythe

No interest in this.

@BoneyM Proposed project: Enchanted Engineering. Investigate using wizardly enchantments to improve engineering apparatus such as gyrocopters that Runelords are unwilling to work on.

Boney · Jul 13, 2020

Angelform said:
@BoneyM Proposed project: Enchanted Engineering. Investigate using wizardly enchantments to improve engineering apparatus such as gyrocopters that Runelords are unwilling to work on.

I'll add it to the list, but it's unlikely to get much traction until the KaK fuddy-duddies are gone.

NuclearConsensus · Jul 13, 2020

ChronOblivion said:
I confess I don't really get the Elemental/Mystical stuff.

I'm guessing Elemental is for working with naturally-occurring stuff that aligns to a Wind while Mystical is for other stuff that has more metaphorical/philosophical connections.

For Panoramia's case, working the soil is Elemental, while growing plants, giving them life, is the mystical.

Boney · Jul 13, 2020

BeepSmile said:
Yeah. Go learn some fucking elvish so we can steal your AP to help us with waystone stuff when we have to get round to it! Also, if you have AP, why are you not like, learning spells and preparing for you magister trials? Being magister... uh... being magister saves you some money....

Wow. Yeah. I can see why she gives zero fucks. Being magister or not does not impact on the things she values.

Also, the Jade Order doesn't normally teach new spells in Winter as that's when Ghyran is weakest.

fictionfan · Jul 13, 2020

mc2rpg said:
If the problem was that the dwarves did not know they were walking into a disaster full of chaos rather than their more standard enemies then this may be the best time to help them properly prepare. A couple years of prep for invading a chaos hold probably does a lot more than a few months for improving the odds of success.

Hydroplatypus said:
Something we are undoubtedly effective at, but IIRC it seems like things are still very much in the planning phases, and our sort of scouting/sabotage combination would work best immediately before the attack, or during it, which means that we're probably a bit too early to be maximally effective here. Probably best to wait

They could prepare better if we can give them a good idea what they are getting into. Also if we find enough nasty that trying to take the place is a lost cause for now better to find out now then after the expedition has been put together.

Also if we power map the place now future sabotage can be more effective.

Most importantly. If we go now we get first pick of the loot and a good idea of where the rest of it is.

veekie · Jul 13, 2020

BoneyM said:
You consider and reject a number of different approaches over a few weeks, and just as you were closing in on a perfect plan, Wolf gets fed up and goes and asks her on your behalf.

She accepted, and called Wolf a good boy. He was insufferably smug for days.

:3

BoneyM said:
She laughs. "Embarrassing, in the end. I had fretted so much about never getting it, then when it pulsed in such a way that it was undeniable I realized it'd been there for years. I didn't realize that most people can't feel the rhythm of the seasons or the slow-soul of a tree."

"You've got tactile Magesight?"

"Most Jades do, that or emotive. What's it like for you?"

That must be frustrating to communicate. English barely has any words to describe tactile sensations without going into second order similes and mapping them onto other phenomenon.

BoneyM said:
You smile. "It's fun. And most people are taken in by it. Why aren't you?"

"Wolf," she says simply.

You sigh. "He told you?"

"No, this was long before he was talking. Familiars are tricky, but he's a dog, and dogs are what their masters make them. You could have made him sneaky and sly, or you could have made him vicious and intimidating. But you didn't. Even after he was fully grown, he stayed a happy, playful puppy."

And also a shipper apparently.
Good boy.

BoneyM said:
"Maybe I use him to throw people off," you say, but it's clear she's not buying it. "Okay, fine. It's true, and it doesn't take much more than basic Wind theory to spot it. Ulgu doesn't make for terrifying ethereal assassins unless you really put your mind to it. It makes mystics and showmen."

She snaps her fingers. "So that's the other half." She pauses thoughtfully, giving you a long, considering look as the server takes advantage of the quiet to step in with tall mugs of freshly-drawn small beer. Well, small beer by Dwarf standards. Some taverns in the Empire sold ale with less of a kick than this. "Mystical Ulgu. Boundaries, right? Between light and dark, between day and night. Ambiguities and edge cases. That's the side of you that builds hell towers and experiments on mushrooms."

Definitely a mountain mystic here.
In another life she might have been a circus act!

BoneyM said:
"I suppose you could see it that way," you say, not entirely convinced. "What about you? The farms would be your Elemental side, right?"

"Everyone makes that mistake at first. Most of the plant stuff is Mystical. Though come to think of it..." She frowns, tapping her fingers against her mug. "I guess I have been focused pretty hard on the crops and the soil. Though that could qualify as both, as supplying food would fit under Elemental. Or maybe I'll exercise my Elemental side more after we turn the Caldera into pastures and bring in more livestock."

Elemental Ghyran would seem to be the earth and water moving stuff. Plus the real plant growth stuff.
Father of Thorns and the like would be Mystical with Ghyran making plants do things they never would.

BoneyM said:
. "But yes, it is intense for three seasons a year. But this valley means I can do something nobody else in the Order has been able to even try: to create arable land from a complete blank slate. No variables, no surprises, no fires, no floods, no droughts. Just dead soil and water and the Halflings and me, creating something from nothing. If I succeed, it's because of me. If I fail, it's because of me. Not because some broken Waystone farted on the far side of the horizon.

Certainly ambitious in her own direction. The whole Eight Peaks caldera is like an isolated biome.

BoneyM said:
You are a Wizard of the Grey Order, and Wizards of the Grey Order don't spit their drinks across the table. You finish your draw on the beer calmly and place the mug carefully back down. "You know much about Waystones?"

She looks at you oddly. "Jade Order, remember? I've been pulling Ghyran out of them ever since they woke up last year."

"Right. Of course." You make a mental note to look into this further later, and mentally underline it several times. "It's tied into the Druid thing, right?"

We just got a BIG Clue.
Bold and italicize

BoneyM said:
"Ugh, the Druid thing. If nothing else, I'm glad to be half a continent away from all of that. 'Should we still worship the Earth Mother', 'should we switch over to Rhya', 'is Rhya the Earth Mother', 'is Shallya the Earth Mother', 'is there even an Earth Mother', 'is Taal the Green Man'... honestly, at this point I couldn't care less. The Gods can do what they do and I'll do what I do and we don't have to bother each other. What about you? Is the Grey College really a hive of secret Ranald cultists?"

"Wouldn't be much of a Ranald cultist if I told, would I?" you say, holding up a pair of crossed fingers.

She examines you carefully, then turns wide-eyed in surprise. "Wait, really? You actually worship Ranald?"

"We have an understanding. Where do you think I got Wolf?"

"Wolf? Wolf was... wow." She blinks, and frowns. "The God of sneakiness and deceit got you a puppy?"

"It makes sense in context." She gives you an expectant look, and you acquiesce. "Well, it started soon after I arrived in Wurtbad and was looking for a place to live..."

A religious Gold Wizard and an agnostic Druidess.
You can just see Panoramia's brain screech to a halt "is she messing with me this time" "nope" "oh she's serious"

BoneyM said:
The story of Wolf and Heideck and the shrine to Stromfels lasts until the food arrives, and what food it is. Fresh meat is a rare luxury in the Karak, as it has to either come from hunting - not the safest of activities in the World's Edge Mountains - or be transported all the way from the Border Princes or Averland. But the Halflings have risen to the challenge and come up with an array of techniques and sauces to make salted meat almost as good as a fresh roast, and the conversation trails off as you both give the meal the full attention it deserves. After the plates are whisked away, the two of you engage in pleasant small talk as you perform the Halfling religious obligation of refraining from strenuous activity after a meal, and wash it down with a mug or two of a very pleasant ale.

Theres a lot of tricks you could do with it, but most of them need to happen at the food preservation end, and involve a lot of spices.

BoneyM said:
The next meeting of Wizards is taking place in your penthouse once more, as you've got something very special to show off: your very own copy of A Modest Treatise into the Nature of Magic, written by the former Magister Patriarch of the Gold Order. An enormous, massive, and very expensive tome filled with theories on the nature of the Winds and their origin, the tome has arguably made Puchta second only to Teclis in influence on the Collegiate understanding of magic. Every College has a substantial waiting list for access to their copy, and the weight and expense means that only a handful of copies exist in private hands. And now you have your own copy, a worthy capstone to your growing collection of books on magical theory.

Nerd-brag mmmm

BoneyM said:
As the year comes to a close, two deliveries arrive in close succession: the unnerving menhir finally arrives from Altdorf, and you arrive a massive spike of bone, purported to be a trophy from a slain storm dragon that has been gathering dust on the wall of a noble Tilean family for generations. You believe the claim as soon as you take it out onto your balcony and the ambient Azyr of the high winds change course to flow through the horn. You tuck it away safely inside your vault, considering your options for making use of it. The accompanying letter informed you that half of your bounty remains posted. With that business seen to, you prepare your report for Belegar and consider what tasks to suggest for your attention. When you last did so, the Karak was still mostly in enemy hands and many of the prospective projects were focused on that, so it takes a fair bit of revision from last time.

That was quick!

[ ] PROJECT: Waystone

Strongly inclined to this. If we do it immediately we could even pick up on the hint Panoramia just dropped about the Waystone waking up and try to nail down the exact timing and nature of things

Andres · Jul 13, 2020

NuclearConsensus said:
I'm guessing Elemental is for working with naturally-occurring stuff that aligns to a Wind while Mystical is for other stuff that has more metaphorical/philosophical connections.

For Panoramia's case, working the soil is Elemental, while growing plants, giving them life, is the mystical.

That's not the difference between Elemental and Mystical spells. Elemental spells are the ones that are in the core rulebook for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2nd Edition and Mystical spells are the ones found in Realms of Sorcery. (Cardinal spells are a mix of the two.) It's an entirely OOC divide created for game balance purposes.

Magnive · Jul 13, 2020

While I agree that the interaction with Panoramia was cute, there was something about it when I was reading it on a first go that made me frown slightly. It took a bit of thinking and a second reread to get, but Panoramia just seems...

Content? I'm not sure if that's the right term for it, but she very much seems like somebody who would happily stick to agriculture without ever seeing another battle. Plus, I realize that she might be exaggerating for the purposes of taunting Mathilde, but the "I'll be doing nothing the next three months" was probably what somewhat soured me on her as a potential partner.

Compared to Johann, with whom we've gone dungeon-delving in Skaven settlements, who achieved Magister rank despite his limitations, and who tried to gild himself a second time despite his first failure? Yes, Panoramia is nice, but she just seems less interesting to me.

I know that I'm exaggerating here, but between the two of them, it seems like Panoramia would be a stay-at-home (or at least, stay-away-from-battle) wife while we would form a battle couple with Johann.

veekie · Jul 13, 2020

Uh, I'm seeing a push against doing Waystones on the basis that the KaK dudes are still here but...they wouldn't be involved yet? This is mostly Wizard talking to Elves and Fey, which they wouldn't be within a mile of, nor be within hearing of.

Boney · Jul 13, 2020

Added to WoQM Archive:

Elemental/Mystic/Cardinal:
A commonly-used magical theory in the Colleges divides each Wind into three aspects: Elemental, Mystic, and Cardinal. Elemental refers to things that align literally with specific Winds: light for the Light Magic, fog for Grey Magic, fire for Fire Magic, and so on. Mystic refers to concepts that metaphorically align with a Wind, like enlightenment for Light Magic, confusion for Grey Magic, and anger for Fire Magic. Cardinal is when you don't look at the Winds individually, but as a whole, as Elven Mages do - for example, a Light Wizard, a Bright Wizard, and a Gold Wizard would all be able to use their magic to interact with a candleflame to some degree, and thus would consider it either Elementally or Mystically aligned with their Wind, but a High Wizard would use Bright Magic as it is the most appropriate Wind, and consider it to be Cardinally aligned with Bright Magic. It is rarely used by the Colleges, as each Order prefers to casts as wide a net as possible for their Wind.

BeepSmile · Jul 13, 2020

mc2rpg said:
A grey wizard helping to reclaim a hold once is an interesting occurance, but twice in a row and it is just how things are supposed to be done.

Is that a "this is why we think we should do this" or "why we should not do this"?

I am at a loss as to what your point is here, thought I do disagree with your rational: "just how things are supposed to be done" does not arise from doing a thing twice.

God, it kills me to type that. "How things are done" is a traditionalist perspective and I hold that those in low regard, so to even accept that premise/axioms for the purpose of asking what you are arguing for or against is... not enjoyable.

Vebyast · Jul 13, 2020

BoneyM said:
"You've got tactile Magesight?"

"Most Jades do, that or emotive. What's it like for you?"

"Mostly visual, except for Waaagh and Dhar."

"Ooh, what colour am I?"

Hah!

BoneyM said:
"Grey Wizards do have a reputation, and so do you. And you don't exactly go out of your way to dispel it."

You smile. "It's fun. And most people are taken in by it. Why aren't you?"

"Wolf," she says simply.

You sigh. "He told you?"

I like seeing how they interact. It feels way more comfortable than Mathilde and Johann's conversations do.

BoneyM said:
"You know what I'm doing?" She leans back in her chair with a smug smile. "Nothing. And the month after that? Nothing. And the month after that, I think I'm going to get around to catching up on my nothing." She grins, then turns serious. "But yes, it is intense for three seasons a year. But this valley means I can do something nobody else in the Order has been able to even try: to create arable land from a complete blank slate. No variables, no surprises, no fires, no floods, no droughts. Just dead soil and water and the Halflings and me, creating something from nothing. If I succeed, it's because of me. If I fail, it's because of me. Not because some broken Waystone farted on the far side of the horizon. Oh! And speaking of, that's another thing to take on once I'm done with the soil. Never even heard of a circular Waystone cluster anything like this big before, there's a paper or two in that."

Let it never again be said that Panoramia is without ambition! Unprecedented megaproject, check. Energy fields larger than her head, check. Smugging at The Mathilde, check.

As for the vote:

Waystones are our next major goal, but I think that it's not yet time to propose them to Belegar as a specific focus. At the very least, the Okral needs to leave. That said, we should probably tell him that they are on our mind and that our next tasks are laying foundations for Waystone research.

It's been argued that Cartographer is a good way for us to work on our enchanting skill to lead up to Waystones and Seviroscope, plus it helps deal with the parts of K8P that the Eye of Gazul doesn't cover. I'm good with that.

AV would be a good investment all around.

As I said before, I could go for "roving troubleshooter". That said, I'd prefer doing it in Karag Dum; I feel like it has more opportunity for Plot and Story compared to the Black Waters or the Western Gate, though I might be convinced that assisting in Marienburg wouldn't be the kind of thing we get done with a couple votes for "Go behead another organization".

Nagarythe, not yet, as extensively discussed.

I could go for "negotiate with the dragon".

So I think my overall vote is:
[ ] PROJECT: Karag Dum
[ ] PROJECT: Aethyric Vitae
[ ] PROJECT: Dragon
[ ] PROJECT: Cartographer

EternityWarrior · Jul 13, 2020

By the way, were the requirements for becoming a Lord Magister revealed at any point? I feel like it's about time we took that final step with how high our contributions are. We also need to learn the rest of the battle mage spells I think.

Mopman43 · Jul 13, 2020

BoneyM said:
Added to WoQM Archive:

Elemental/Mystic/Cardinal:
A commonly-used magical theory in the Colleges divides each Wind into three aspects: Elemental, Mystic, and Cardinal. Elemental refers to things that align literally with specific Winds: light for the Light Magic, fog for Grey Magic, fire for Fire Magic, and so on. Mystic refers to concepts that metaphorically align with a Wind, like enlightenment for Light Magic, confusion for Grey Magic, and anger for Fire Magic. Cardinal is when you don't look at the Winds individually, but as a whole, as Elven Mages do - for example, a Light Wizard, a Bright Wizard, and a Gold Wizard would all be able to use their magic to interact with a candleflame to some degree, and thus would consider it either Elementally or Mystically aligned with their Wind, but a High Wizard would use Bright Magic as it is the most appropriate Wind, and consider it to be Cardinally aligned with Bright Magic. It is rarely used by the Colleges, as each Order prefers to casts as wide a net as possible for their Wind.

So, every wizard has their own personal conception of what their magic's Elemental and Mystic aspects are to them?

TotallyNotEvil · Jul 13, 2020

So, it seems like a candlelit dinner might do more for romance than going to Dwarf Mass.

Shocking.

RIP Johann's chances.

Boney · Jul 13, 2020

Mopman43 said:
So, every wizard has their own personal conception of what their magic's Elemental and Mystic aspects are to them?

Yes, and low-level arguments about it are the background noise of every College.

veekie · Jul 13, 2020

BeepSmile said:
Is that a "this is why we think we should do this" or "why we should not do this"?

I am at a loss as to what your point is here, thought I do disagree with your rational: "just how things are supposed to be done" does not arise from doing a thing twice.

God, it kills me to type that. "How things are done" is a traditionalist perspective and I hold that those in low regard, so to even accept that premise/axioms for the purpose of asking what you are arguing for or against is... not enjoyable.

Eh, don't mind the people going "don't do X because Boring/Irrelevant/Suboptimal", quest is freedom to participate, we don't get to shut out or sabotage other people's preferences except for the sole case of mutually exclusive items.

chocolote12 · Jul 13, 2020

Angelform said:
Can't in good conscience propose this. We already know what use the Dwarfs can put it to. Other than formalising supply and usage there isn't anything that would benefit Belegar or his realm.

Formalizing the supply methods would be pretty huge, though. It's the difference between an irreplaceable source and a fixed supply vs, well, anything else. "I can get you infinite Ancestor Rune Juice" is even better than "I can let you use Ancestor Runes semi-reliably".

Orkus Majorkus · Jul 13, 2020

HeWhoAdds said:
Panoramia absolutely flexing on the thread with her available AP

Just came to have a nice dinner and covertly surveil a friend for possible romantic indications and while passively gathering information for later use and feeling real attacked!

Boney · Jul 13, 2020

EternityWarrior said:
By the way, were the requirements for becoming a Lord Magister revealed at any point? I feel like it's about time we took that final step with how high our contributions are. We also need to learn the rest of the battle mage spells I think.

There's no strict definition, but the critera considered are loyalty, ability, reliability, and experience.

mc2rpg · Jul 13, 2020

BeepSmile said:
Is that a "this is why we think we should do this" or "why we should not do this"?

I am at a loss as to what your point is here, thought I do disagree with your rational: "just how things are supposed to be done" does not arise from doing a thing twice.

God, it kills me to type that. "How things are done" is a traditionalist perspective and I hold that those in low regard, so to even accept that premise/axioms for the purpose of asking what you are arguing for or against is... not enjoyable.

I would like it if bringing mages along to reconquer holds was how the dwarves did things. It clearly helped with the retaking of K8P, so getting that established as proper standard operating procedure for the dwarves would be great. My understanding is that if the dwarves keep seeing successful reclamations involved Mathilde, or wizards in general, then yes that will rapidly become how things are supposed to be done.

I think helping here would be worth doing and would save a ton of dwarf lives from a chaos fiasco, and that helping now when they can try to rearrange the assets they gather and build and prepare is better than helping a few months before when they are more stuck with what they have.

veekie · Jul 13, 2020

EternityWarrior said:
By the way, were the requirements for becoming a Lord Magister revealed at any point? I feel like it's about time we took that final step with how high our contributions are. We also need to learn the rest of the battle mage spells I think.

Already revealed:
-Ability
-Achievement
-Loyalty
-Experience

We have the first two, we're being tested on Loyalty(and presumably not found wanting), and the last is just waiting for the timer to tick down so they don't raise some green wizard to a position she's not yet ready for.

E: Misremembered the exact list apparently, but we're just lacking Experience

Nurgle · Jul 13, 2020

Besides help the Dawi prepare for Karak Dum I kind of want to do smoke and mirrors. Because long range teleportation for Mathilde would just be something she would use to tease people.

Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

Herald of the Thorned One

Please sir, may I have some Meows?

Nascent Transhuman

Mountain-Hermit of Nitpeak

A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.