deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Ah, ok. Makes sense.
Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
Calamity. Most of the conversation I've seen around it has been about making learning magic more survivable, not making studying magical items easier.
- Location
- Australia
Ok, final recommendations on what guns to get. Before that though, Limbwither has been disqualified because it's shooting a spell into someone.
First revolver: Boosted Shem's Burning Gaze, Illusion, Move. 15 CF, 1AP.
Second revolver: Three Runes of Fire. Dwarf/Runesmith Favour.
The first revolver is meant to be a general purpose gun, judged as something that's best at killing something as tough and well armoured as a Vampire Lord in heavy armour. Boosted Shem's Burning Gaze is fantastic at that to an astonishing degree. Strength 6 is mathematically better at killing the target than double damage so beats out Banishment. The extra stuff Shem's Burning Gaze has beats out Urannon's Thunderbolt. There are few Lords with better than a 3+ armour save so Searing Doom's armour-ignoring and armour-wounding is little-needed compared to Strength 6. With 48" of range and Illusion meaning it produces only light and only on impact, which we don't care about, it's a superb sniper. And of course put Move in there because you never want to be slow on a quick draw.
The second revolver is because three Runes of Fire work just fine on a gun and don't interfere with its operations. Having a hand flamethrower with fire this strong is pretty good. The closest thing the Colleges have is Breathe Fire, but I'm not sure if it hits Damage 8 normally in Divided Loyalties or not, and unlike dwarf runes it needs recharging. A pistol that can swap between being a normal pistol and an anti-horde flamethrower with surprisingly strong flames is pretty darn good.
First revolver: Boosted Shem's Burning Gaze, Illusion, Move. 15 CF, 1AP.
Second revolver: Three Runes of Fire. Dwarf/Runesmith Favour.
The first revolver is meant to be a general purpose gun, judged as something that's best at killing something as tough and well armoured as a Vampire Lord in heavy armour. Boosted Shem's Burning Gaze is fantastic at that to an astonishing degree. Strength 6 is mathematically better at killing the target than double damage so beats out Banishment. The extra stuff Shem's Burning Gaze has beats out Urannon's Thunderbolt. There are few Lords with better than a 3+ armour save so Searing Doom's armour-ignoring and armour-wounding is little-needed compared to Strength 6. With 48" of range and Illusion meaning it produces only light and only on impact, which we don't care about, it's a superb sniper. And of course put Move in there because you never want to be slow on a quick draw.
Strength 4 with armour piercing wounds on a 5+ and demands a 6+ armour save. A hit deals 0.27 wounds, doubled to 0.55.
Strength 6 with armour piercing wounds on a 3+ with no armour save. A hit deals 0.66 wounds.
Strength 6 with armour piercing wounds on a 3+ with no armour save. A hit deals 0.66 wounds.
The second revolver is because three Runes of Fire work just fine on a gun and don't interfere with its operations. Having a hand flamethrower with fire this strong is pretty good. The closest thing the Colleges have is Breathe Fire, but I'm not sure if it hits Damage 8 normally in Divided Loyalties or not, and unlike dwarf runes it needs recharging. A pistol that can swap between being a normal pistol and an anti-horde flamethrower with surprisingly strong flames is pretty darn good.
- Location
- Utrecht
The numbers on that ritual are ridiculously low. You need 5 wizards lords to transport even a thousand soldiers, and that's not including support staff. A more realistic number would be some sort of exponential function... maybe (Level of primary caster) ^ (Number of assistants).
- Location
- Australia
It's called The Impossible March of the Damned Soldier, not The Impossible March of the Damned Army.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
WFRP is a small scale setting. It's not really designed for armies. It's also why combat with more than about 10 combatants doesn't really work.
But if we say, wanted to make a wizard better at shooting people, or at surviving people stabbing her, while still being a wizard and being able to cast spells, would this be something we might get help with.
For example, when we get good enough at enchanting to try to make a Mastered Aethyric Armour item set of We-silk robes, would we be wasting our time asking for a runesmith to collaborate?
Or at we better off looking at things like (eventually) enchanting a banner with Mindrazor and trying to get an inventive runelord tie in runes that interact with mental strength?
- Location
- Earth
I think Hochland(or any other significant faction of the Empire) being under a Casus Belli by the Empire's strongest allies induces some harm to the system, yes. We may agree to disagree on that.
Foreign policy matters if the request contradicts the Emperor's set policy, thereby undermining his authority. I am of course assuming that the Emperor, if he knows about it, would disagree. You have a point that the Emperor may decide otherwise, in which case we either go back to Article 1(is the Emperor not loyal to the ideals and laws of the Empire?) or move on to the third qualifier in Article 9 and investigate whether it breaks the unity of purpose of Sigmar's Empire(would different factions form, like Nordland vs Middenland in current events or the Time of Three Emperors in canon?). I think it very likely that the Empire could split into pro and anti-dwarf factions in that situation, given those two examples.
And to clarify on Article 15, it's not proof, it's cause for suspicion, which we could then duly investigate. If we had proof we could(though it may not be wise) just execute them on the spot like Van Hal did with Verezzo.
My reading of the meaning of "beyond the means" is simply if one is better placed to handle something due to resource/convenience factors. Otherwise, we could reasonably suggest that the Witch Hunters can do (roughly) everything a Magister can do, anti-chaos-capability-wise. The only limiting factor in their means is the resources/numbers they have-- they can't be everywhere at once, which is why you have the Colleges as supplemental forces. Thus if we have a reasonable suspicion that there is a plot in front of us and there is no relevant authority in range capable of dealing with it, then we deal with it.
You're being very strict in your interpretation, when the Articles were intentionally written with loopholes and vagaries to allow justifications.
To recap, since our quote chain has become a little disjointed without the sources in-post and we seem to have digressed a bit into quibbling over details:
My position is that the Articles of Magic are sufficient to cover us if any Imperial Faction asks us to go against our oaths to the dwarves. Articles 1, 9, and 15 all seem to have cases where you could argue they support a refusal. Introducing a law to ban the forced sharing of knowledge paints a large visibility marker on us, making a more attractive target for these requests by enemy or incompetent factions. Therefore, introducing a law against breaking oaths to the dawi is undesirable.
Oh, I thought you meant for staffs in general. But no, for anything man-portable, runes or magic, pick one.
It is exponential. You need five Wizard Lords to move a thousand, but ten can move a million.
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deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
Not commenting on the rest, but Article 1 doesn't cover Mathilde in that position. The Empire rates "be loyal to the Empire" higher than they do "aid the Dwarfs".
Ok. That makes that collaboration in enchantment dwarf favour option much less attractive then. I can't really see a scenario where we'd want to do it, given that we don't spend our own dwarf favour to build K8P's infrastructure.
This also has implications for the Seviriscope.
Loyal to 'the ideals' of the Empire, not to the institution of the Empire. The ideals of the Empire including respecting their alliance with the dwarves.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
The ideals of the Empire also "aid the Empire" which they count as higher.
We'd be aiding the Empire by stopping them doing something foolish.
deathofrats0808
Don’t think of it as dying; just as leaving early
- Location
- Earth
There is zero way that'd fly with any Imperial authority. You could certainly make the argument, but I see no way it'd be persuasive to anyone who was actually after those secrets. There's a reason none of the responses to the Chamberlain were a legal defence.
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Does not resonate with me at all; Lord Magister is a position of responsibility more than anything else in my eyes. You get it be being responsible, and holding off on organising these useful things to try to do some sort of dominance display thing is the opposite of that.
Not really sure why there would need to be a law about not sharing dwarf secrets. As far as I'm aware there's no legal precedent for forcing dwarf secrets out of someone much like how there's no legal precedent for someone trying to steal Mathilde's possessions. It might be tried but they certainly wouldn't be in the right.
Basically it's like trying to pass a law saying you're allowed to own chairs. A strange thing to do when no one says you can't and plenty of people have them lying around.
Basically it's like trying to pass a law saying you're allowed to own chairs. A strange thing to do when no one says you can't and plenty of people have them lying around.
- Location
- Earth
The more outrageously out of left field actions we take before LM, the more that kind of thing will be expected of us as a standard.
I think there's a disconnect here. Mathilde justifies taking all magic related actions as under the purview of the Articles of Magic. She has to be able to justify it to herself, or else consider herself a Black Magister. It doesn't need to fly with authority, just fly with Mathilde to do what she thinks is proper in the situation. Neither party is going to be bringing out the minutia of law over the course of their interaction.
- Location
- Greece
I mean, we could phrase it as "we lived among the dawi, we know how dangerous this is, we think the empire may get destroyed or seriously harmed in the future if it doesn't have a legal way to wash its hands from people who offer casus belli to the Dawi. It will also make diplomacy easier, as the Dawi will be more willing to foreclose secrets if they know that the Empire will punish unlawful disclosure, so the empire may end up lawfully holding more secrets in the end". If that isn't convincing enough as the reason Mathilde would try to pass that law, use the Deceiver to cinch that she genuinely believes it (does the Deceiver work if everything you say you genuinely beloieve though? Sure, we are misdirecting just a bit, but it is genuinely a good law to have for the reasons stated above).
Sure, some may still question what secrets we have even with the Deceiver, but generally, those would be the people who would suspect that we have secrets anyway.
I must disclose that the reason I support this law is primarily as a roleplaying thing because it would make Mathilde more comfortable with her position as a Dawi ambassador who wouldn't ever be forced to choose who to betray. Her whole psychology revolves around skirting very close to the line of the law but never passing it, I feel like being forced to choose would destroy her, even if only she knew any betrayal took place, so I want to close off the most likely way that could happen.
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Generally if they're properly made, and something that was commissioned usually is, they can last indefinitely. The Colleges have items handed down from Teclis and the Founders. That said, they do tend to be rather less sturdy than Dwarven craftsmanship so they suffer more attrition from accidents and battlefield encounters.
Mathilde can just decide that any attempt to extract dwarven secrets from her would involve her betraying the ideals of Sigmar's Empire and so be a violation of the first clause of the first of the Articles of Imperial Magic.
Easy, simply, no new law required.
On the subject of Great Deeds, I wonder if it would be possible to spend one to get access to Frederik Von Tarnus' notes from the Bright College, given that he made the Staff of Volans and the Armour of Tarnus, both of which are Wind based magic items that designed to assist and able to be used by wizards of any College. Or whether that would require a specific great deed equivalent owed to the Bright College.
It's interesting that the apparent greatest magic item crafter in the Colleges' history seems to have been a Bright not a Gold. You can see that Adele's approach to her Wind has a distinguished history.
Easy, simply, no new law required.
On the subject of Great Deeds, I wonder if it would be possible to spend one to get access to Frederik Von Tarnus' notes from the Bright College, given that he made the Staff of Volans and the Armour of Tarnus, both of which are Wind based magic items that designed to assist and able to be used by wizards of any College. Or whether that would require a specific great deed equivalent owed to the Bright College.
It's interesting that the apparent greatest magic item crafter in the Colleges' history seems to have been a Bright not a Gold. You can see that Adele's approach to her Wind has a distinguished history.
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chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
I'd be willing to try and see if we could get something out of their Advanced Staff Turning classes first. They might or might not be Aqshy specific, but our winds are close enough that we can translate spells sometimes, so I'm hopeful.
- Location
- Greece
That would imply that she believes that the Empire of Sigmar's ideals are unextricably connected with Sigmarism. On one hand, its in the name. On the other hand, Mathilde dislikes Sigmarism, plus the empire is actually de facto not a theocracy, plus it took a departure from Sigmar's ideals for the colleges to be founded. So this justification is more mental gymnastey than reading the liber Mortis, or anything else Mathilde ever did because it would require her to simultaneously hold and not hold certain values, while every other act of mental gymnastics was internally consistent on the mode of justification.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
Alternatively, it'd be a betrayal because 'don't be a jerk to the allies who will absolutely hold it against you' is a universal ideal rather than a specific religious tenet?